Georgia, New Threat?

[Vigil]

Old alliances crumble and new ones need to be forged. Is Georgia enemy or ally?

Just a few developments...

 

~First article~

 

Yerkir web site, Yerevan, in English

9 Mar 04

 

Ethnic Armenians in Georgia against Azeri oil pipeline

 

AKHALKALAKI

 

During his recent visit to Baku, Georgian President Mikheil

Saakashvili, speaking about the security of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan

oil pipeline, said that the Armenians living in the regions that will

be bisected by the pipeline have no problems with the construction of

the pipeline.

 

The Armenian population of Tsalka, Borjomi and Akhaltsikha, however,

have been continuously voicing their complaints about it.

 

The residents of the Armenian-populated village of Tapatskur in the

Borjomi region have not yet received compensation for the property

taken from them for the pipeline.

 

~2nd Article~

 

ArmenPress

March 9 2004

 

11 PERCENT OF GEORGIANS THINK ARMENIA A RELIABLE PARTNER

 

TBILISI, MARCH 9, ARMENPRESS: According to the findings of a

survey, conducted in Georgia by the Gallup International, 66 percent

of respondents think that the US is Georgia's most reliable partner,

49 percent think it is Russia, however, 65 percent view Russia as a

potential threat.

Twenty-two percent trust the EU, 19 percent Germany, 11 percent

think Armenia is Georgia's reliable partner and 5 percent look at it

as a threat. Seven percent of respondents consider Turkey as a

reliable partner while 13 percent as a threat. Fifteen percent trust

Azerbaijan and three percent view it as a threat.

 

 

~3rd Article~

 

Azat Artsakh, Republic of Nagorno Artsax

March 8 2004

 

 

REVOLUTION MAY BE PREVENTED IF IMPOSED FROM ABOVE

 

-After his meeting with the president of Georgia George Bush said

they had discussed the possibility of spreading the sprouts of the

"rose revolution" in other countries. Mr. Petrossian, in your

opinion, may the direct neighbours of Georgia Armenia and Azerbaijan

be included in the list of "other countries"?

- Certainly, these countries first of all. The president of the USA

would not discuss the problem of democratization of the countries of

Arabic world, Africa or Latin America with Georgian president. They

could have referred to only those countries which have common

political system and problems with Georgia. Still in December "The

Washington Post" wrote when the heads of the states formed in the

territory of the Soviet Union gathered in Baku at the funeral of

president Heidar Aliev behind the scenes rumours were circulated

about change of power not in Azerbaijan but neighbouring Georgia. The

revolution deposed the president of Georgia E. Shewardnadzeh and his

colleagues in the CIS were worried by the possibility of such

situations in their own countries. President of Russia Putin caught

these moods and, as two direct sources state, during his talk to the

acting president of Georgia Nino Burdzhanadzeh mentioned with

rudeness typical of him, "All the CIS heads were scared the pants

off."

- Do you think that "a rose revolution" is expected in Armenia.

- But why not? I consider it not only possible but also inevitable;

it is possible to avoid a revolution from "beneath" if only it is

organized from "above". Let us consider: during the last 10-12 years

our almost unchanged government did not stir a finger to punish at

least some bribe-taker and robber officials. But discontentment is

genetically inherent to man, especially its "plural number" people.

And this in normal conditions for existence. But when you are in need

of everything, when cynical injustice is around, blast of the bomb of

protest, serious shocks within the society are inevitable. By the

way, a "bloodless" revolution was possible in Armenia last March,

earlier than in Georgia if the protests of the people in 1996 did not

fail. The failure of this attempt and the hopelessness that followed

were still fresh in the memory of the people and oppressed their hope

and spirit. In spite of all this the government were hopeful and

continue to be that the people will wait until the "reforms" will

slowly but give "fruits". They hope that the inert majority of their

citizens understands them, understands that the difficulties are

overcome by objective reasons which are not dependent on the

activities of the government. Almost in everything the "transition

period" is to blame and as evidence they point at our neighbours. But

"the political wonder of Georgia" dealt a strong blow to this absurd

principle, and became a reality by the slogan "Down with corruption,

the source of poverty". And if the words of Sahakashvili and his

supporters do not essentially differ from their actions and the

organizational streak does not betray them (and I believe in this)

the true results of their work will not wait long. In this case the

neighbouring nations, at least the Armenians will gain hope and

belief that by active opposition it is not only possible to depose an

ineffective government but also radically change their life and the

life of their country. That is to say, in a year, or a year and a

half the rule of law will be maintained in Georgia and the population

will feel the results of the activities of the new government, which

will certainly provide favourable basis for the "Georgian practice"

in Armenia.

- However, many analysts forecast the possible failure of

Sahakashvili because of hastiness of his plans and ambitious actions.

 

- Of course, there are and there will be faults. New actions,

especially the reconstitution of the system cannot pass without

mistakes. As great organizer Vladimir Lenin confessed, "there has not

been such a cause to which we did not come back". You say what the

majority of the Russian and CIS mass media write or broadcast, which

are under the influence of either authorities, or big capital. And

radical changes are not favourable for either the first, or the

second, more exactly such actions are directed against them. And I

can state for sure that the activities of the new government of

Georgia have already produced results. The first result is the

improvement of relationships with Russia. "I did not expect such

wonders from that visit," confessed Sahakashvili after returning from

Moscow to Tbilisi, and added, "Our talk with Putin lasted for four

hours and we arranged to work on painful issues unless they are

eliminated. Our line is to shift the relationships with Moscow to a

strategic level and we will not deviate from that line. Demanding

from Russia to withdraw their military installations from the

territory of our country we do not refuse to cooperate in either the

military or political and economic spheres," clarified the president

of Georgia. The same was confirmed by the Russian party. I. Ivanov

said, "Moscow is pleased with the results of the negotiations with

the president of Georgia." The second result is the assistance of the

USA to Sahakashvili which he was granted during his visit to

Washington. Answering the questions of journalists, Colin Powell

expressed support for the actions of the president of Georgia against

corruption. The state secretary of the USA mentioned that he was

impressed by the determination of the president of Georgia in his

struggle against corruption as it is impossible to build democracy

with a corrupted state system. He said he is sure that president

Sahakashvili will manage to maintain rule of law and uproot

corruption. What is more, he mentioned that the Georgian leadership

may rely on the support of America. In his turn at the meeting with

the president Sahakshvili on Wednesday George Bush highly appreciated

the contribution of the president Sahakashvili in maintenance of

democracy and struggle against corruption which also aim at

stabilizing the economy of Georgia. According to the agency

"Associated Press" George Bush expressed his support to the "rose

revolution" characterizing it as an example to the people of the

world who seek for democracy, who want to have honest government.

Bush stated he was impressed by the sensibility and courage of this

leader and was encouraged by the fact of having such a reliable

partner with whom they have common values. He said he had first-hand

information that president Sahakashvili does everything possible to

win the trust of the people by following their will, fighting

corruption and creating an effective state system. At the end of the

meeting he told Sahakashvili that in he current year Georgia will be

the CIS country which will receive the biggest aid of the USA,

reaching 200 million dollars. Aren't these true results?

- But what about the suppositions about confrontation of Russia and

the USA in Georgia?

- No, the United States and Russia must and will cooperate in Georgia

and not compete for Georgia. This was stated by the US state

secretary C. Powell after the meeting with the president of Georgia

on February 26.

 

AA

 

 

~4th Article~

 

ITAR-TASS News Agency

TASS

March 9, 2004 Tuesday

 

Georgia seeks rapprochement with Azerbaijan, Armenia - Saakashvili

 

 

by Vitali Makarchev

 

PARIS, March 9 - One of the most important geo-political tasks of the

Georgian leadership at present is to create a zone of democracy,

stability and advanced development in the Caucasus region on the

basis of rapprochement of Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia, President

Mikhail Saakashvili of Georgia told a news conference here on

Tuesday.

 

He said he had held a meeting with his Azerbaijani counterpart Ilkham

Aliyev to discuss this ambitious project. "In Ilkham Aliyev, I see a

bright and deep politician," Saakashvili said.

 

He indicated that the integration process between Georgia and

Azerbaijan would be intensified. He said, "We believe that Armenia

will join us at a certain phase."

 

Along with economic rebirth, Saakashvili sees consolidation of

democracy in the Caucasus as one of the chief aims of rapprochement,

which, in turn, will tell positively on the on the Middle and Near

East.

 

 

However, this article is interesting...

 

ArmenPress

March 9 2004

 

GEORGIA'S PRESIDENT ARRIVES IN ARMENIA MARCH 12

 

YEREVAN, MARCH 9, ARMENPRESS: The president of Georgia, Mikhail

Saakashvili, will pay an official two-day visit to Armenia on March

12 at the invitation of his Armenian counterpart Robert Kocharian.

Kocharian's press office said the Georgian delegation is composed of

foreign, energy, infrastructures and development ministers, members

of the parliament, representatives of the Armenian-populated region

of Javakheti and journalists.

On March 13 the two presidents will have a private conversation

after the official ceremony of welcoming, to be followed by

Georgian-Armenian negotiations. The two presidents will also brief

the journalists on the results of their talks.

During the official visit Saakashvili will meet with Armenian

parliament chairman, prime minister and representatives of the

Georgian community in Armenia. He will be received by the head of the

Armenian Church Catholicos Karekin II. The itinerary of the Georgian

delegation includes also a visit to Genocide Memorial where he will

lay a wreath in commemoration of the victims of the 1915 massacre of

Armenians by Turkish authorities. He will then visit the nearby

Genocide Museum and Institute, then the Matenadaran Institute of Old

Manuscripts. Saakashvili will fly back the same day.

 

 

Georgia friend of Armenia or just another vulture? America or as I refer to it as the invisible hand is really sticking its nose where it does not belong. They are trying to stir up a commution in Armenia so they can resume their ambitions of controling the flow of oil through the region. I wonder what Artsahk would do during this intervention?

 

I assume the new President is trying to play both sides, but for somone who keeps on talking about the "revolution of the roses" he sure is ignoring the undemocratic elections in Azeribeijan. Another sweet voice or just another forked tongue?

 

There was a time when I assumed that Georgia and Armenia could forge a great alliance, but it is apparant that Georgia is wolf a in sheeps clothing or are they just playing nice with Azeribeijan until the pipeline is completed? Or is Azeribeijan playing nice with Georgia? Like I have said many times in my threads if somone will do it for you they then they will do it to you.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[Sasun]

Thanks for the articles Vigil. I think we don't have many common interests with Georgia, so we can't have really close relations with Georgians. Being the favorite of the current US administration they have a lead. It seems that we need Georgians more than they needs us, so we are at a disadvantage.

 

BTW, do these numbers make sense?

66 percent

of respondents think that the US is Georgia's most reliable partner,

49 percent think it is Russia, however, 65 percent view Russia as a

potential threat.

 

49% and 65% mutually exclusive answers ?

[Vigil]

Thanks for the articles Vigil. I think we don't have many common interests with Georgia, so we can't have really close relations with Georgians. Being the favorite of the current US administration they have a lead. It seems that we need Georgians more than they needs us, so we are at a disadvantage.

 

Georgia and Armenia are in the same boat, but are paddleing in opposite directions. If they were smart they would each paddle in the same direction and actually progress instead of getting enticed to betray one another for table scraps.

 

49% and 65% mutually exclusive answers ?

 

I guess not.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[gurgen]

My grandfather used to say: "You can be friends with a Turk, but never with a Vratsi".....

[Stormig]

49% and 65% mutually exclusive answers don't seem implausible. Reliable partner and potential threat, after all, can be thought of as mutually exclusive, if the contexts are clear. A potential threat need not be about aggressiveness and being unreliable, not worthy of trust - can it not also be about stability or lack thereof?

[Sasun]

I don't know Stormig, I like clear questions and straight answers.

[alpha]

There are no eternal enemies, just eternal interests.

 

Saakashvili was able to make Georgia the center of Caucasus. He has turned it from a failed state to a leader of Caucasus. Georgians are even utilizing their limited resources in their diaspora. What is Armenian government doing, besides actively leading the country toward the dictatorship.

 

An interesting article from BBC.

 

Oh by the way if some of you think you can compare Oskanyan to Zurabashvili, Oskanyan does not have any experience working in foreign diplomatic corps.

 

French diplomat is Georgia minister

 

A French diplomat is about to start a new life - as foreign minister for the former Soviet republic of Georgia.

 

Salome Zurabishvili, 51, was born in France to Georgian parents, but won a posting back to Georgia as the French ambassador.

 

She will now be granted Georgian citizenship in addition to her French passport.

 

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said it had been "his dream" to appoint to the post since he met her in 1996.

 

"She made a brilliant career in France but she stayed a Georgian at heart and a true patriot," he told reporters.

 

It is a very important gesture on the part of the French government... She is a senior employee of their diplomatic service

President Mikhail Saakashvili

Mr Saakashvili said he believed such an appointment was "unprecedented in the history of diplomacy".

He said he had cleared the move with French President Jacques Chirac during a visit to Paris.

 

"It is a very important gesture on the part of the French government, a very significant gesture on the part of the French president.

 

"She is a senior employee of their diplomatic service.

 

"They know and trust her personally."

 

International standing

 

Ms Zurabishvili, whose family emigrated to France early in the 20th century, has worked as a French diplomat in the US, the European Union and Nato.

 

She also headed the international department of France's national security general secretariat, before her appointment to Tbilisi last year.

 

Mr Saakashvili, a US-educated lawyer himself, has appointed a cabinet with many Western-educated ministers since he was elected in January.

 

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/3504830.stm

[Sasun]

Interesting Alpha. But Oskanyan did graduate from a top diplomatic school, and by now he also has experience.

 

The article says she was appointed last year.

She also headed the international department of France's national security general secretariat, before her appointment to Tbilisi last year.

Did she work under Shevardnadze also?

[Arpa]

There are

An interesting article from BBC.

 

Oh by the way if some of you think you can compare Oskanyan to Zurabashvili, Oskanyan does not have any experience working in foreign diplomatic corps.

 

French diplomat is Georgia minister

So, now we're going to trash our own??

Oskanian is identical to her in every respect except..... gender.

Why is the grass is always greener on the other side?

Compare this.

Georgia has practically lost half of her rterritory, more may be lost yet while during the same period Armenia has gained at least half her size.

Oskanian has been doing an excellent job.

[Sasun]

I have a good feeling about Saakashvili. But it seems like he is trying to please everyone at the same time, kind of reminding Armenian compementery foreign policy. But it is too soon to understand where he is leading. It could be all empty talk, why haven't they lowered tariffs yet? Does it really take that long to announce a new rate?

 

 

Armenia ‘Ideal Partner’ For Georgia, Says Saakashvili

 

www.armenialiberty.org

By Ruzanna Khachatrian and Gevorg Stamboltsian

 

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili lavished praise on Armenia and its President Robert Kocharian on Friday during an official visit to Yerevan which the two leaders used to stress “the high level” of relations between their nations.

 

Meeting for the first time, they vowed to strengthen “friendly” bilateral ties, promote regional cooperation and continue to seek integration into European structures. In a joint declaration issued by them, Yerevan again disavowed recent calls for self-rule in Georgia’s Armenian-populated areas.

 

Saakashvili described Armenia as an “ideal partner,” saying that his country has a lot to learn from its neighbor's nation-building experience. He was also very generous in paying compliments to Kocharian.

 

“The president of Armenia left an extremely positive impression on me,” Saakashvili told a joint news conference after the talks. “I think that he is a very energetic and able leader who is well aware of the region’s problems and international relations in general. And I think Armenia is lucky to have such a president.”

 

“I remember telling my ministers that there are many things they can learn from Armenia,” the 36-year-old leader said, mentioning its armed forces in the first instance.

 

“We are going to develop, get stronger and promote peace and stability. In this sense, we have an excellent, an ideal partner in Yerevan.”

 

Kocharian was more reserved in his comments. “I am happy with the sincere character of today’s exchange of opinions,” he said, adding that Armenian-Georgian summits will now be more frequent than in the past.

 

Kocharian also noted an “amazing convergence” of the two governments’ positions on the situation in Javakheti, the restive Armenian-majority region in southern Georgia which is home to a Russian military base. He said they both believe that the only way to ease simmering tensions in the impoverished region is to address its socioeconomic problems and promote its residents’ “deep integration” into Georgian society.

 

The joint declaration implies that Armenia will not seek a status of autonomy for Javakheti demanded last month by a junior member of its governing coalition, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun). “The Parties reiterated once again their commitment to the principle of non-interference with each other's internal affairs, mutual respect for self-rule, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders,” it reads.

 

Saakashvili was quick to publicly welcome Kocharian’s “principled stance” on what he stressed is his country’s internal affair. Strongly hinting at Russian governing circles, he said attempts to destabilize Javakheti are sponsored by unspecified external forces located “thousands of kilometers” away from the region.

 

“I think that any attempt to artificially disrupt stability there is doomed first of all because Armenia has a president who is well aware of the significance of peace and stability. It is also fraught with such a tragedy that I don’t advise anyone to even think about that,” he said.

 

Touching upon the uneasy Russian-Georgian relationship, Saakashvili suggested that Yerevan, which maintains close ties with Moscow, might “greatly assist” in their improvement. Tbilisi, for its part, is ready to help defuse tensions between Armenia and its regional arch-foes: Azerbaijan and Turkey, he said

 

Economic issues were also high on the agenda of the talks, with the two presidents agreeing to step up activities of a Georgian-Armenian intergovernmental commission on economic cooperation. It will now be co-chaired by Prime Minister Andranik Markarian and Georgian State Minister Zurab Zhvania.

 

Saakashvili effectively reaffirmed his pledge to lower transit fees levied from goods imported to and exported from Armenia through Georgian railway and Black Sea ports. The latter handle 90 percent of Armenia’s external trade. The Georgian tariffs for Azerbaijani cargoes have until now been considerably lower.

 

“Armenia must have the most favorable regional tariffs, no less favorable that any of our neighbors has,” Saakashvili declared.

 

But it was not clear if any bilateral agreements to that effect will be signed by the two governments soon.

 

Later in the day Saakashvili visited the genocide memorial on Yerevan’s Tsitsernakabert Hill and met with leaders of the Armenian parliament and its pro-Kocharian majority.

 

Opposition lawmakers were not present at the meeting in keeping with their boycott of parliament sessions that was launched last month in protest against the authorities’ refusal to hold a referendum of confidence in Kocharian. Ironically, for many of them Saakashvili has been a role model for regime change since sweeping to power in a bloodless revolution last November. The U.S.-trained lawyer was elected president with a crushing majority of votes in January.

 

Opposition leaders, who accuse Kocharian of rigging last year’s presidential election, say they will launch a similar campaign of street protests in Yerevan this spring. These plans were reaffirmed on Friday by Stepan Demirchian and other leaders of the Artarutyun (Justice) bloc while they met supporters in the central Aragatsotn province.

 

“Power will be given back to the people,” Demirchian told a rally in the town of Talin. “The person who usurped power will quit without casualties.”

 

“We will surround the presidential palace with people…and will stand there to the end, until the leader of the Artsax clan flees the Republic of Armenia,” said parliament deputy Victor Dallakian.

[Sasun]

By the way, have Georgians changed their official flag? In the photo it shows the red and white flag with crosses.

[Vigil]

By the way, have Georgians changed their official flag? In the photo it shows the red and white flag with crosses.

 

Yes, Georgia has changed its flag to appear more European. I do not understand what the deal is with getting into the EU. I think nowadays countries just want to get into the EU so that they will called "European". Most of the new Easter European countries are not liking the integration into the EU economy.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[Armat]

.

 

Saakashvili was able to make Georgia the center of Caucasus. He has turned it from a failed state to a leader of ]

I disagree Georgian economy is the worst in the region even Armenia has a better economy besides the borders issue.

I also disagree that Georgia is the leader in that region based on what? Militery power?none issue.Economy? Not there yet.

Georgia may pay a heavy price by being too anti Russia and pro US.Georgians were and now a nation without identity and that in itself is a huge disadvatage.

[alpha]

Arpa,

If you're familiar with Oskanyan's biography, his diplomatic experience is only confined to working in Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Armenia. There are many Armenians who are working as embassadors or have high ranking positions in many countries, for example Suren Harutyunyan, ex Communist First Secretary of Armenia, used to be one of the consuls of Russia in Egypt. I can go ahead and put a list here. All am I saying that the potential of Diaspora is underutilized. The government should not be only after the money, but also after the experience and brains of the Diaspora. In 21st century, human capital is the most important asset.

[Vigil]

Arpa,

If you're familiar with Oskanyan's biography, his diplomatic experience is only confined to working in Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Armenia. There are many Armenians who are working as embassadors or have high ranking positions in many countries, for example Suren Harutyunyan, ex Communist First Secretary of Armenia, used to be one of the consuls of Russia in Egypt. I can go ahead and put a list here. All am I saying that the potential of Diaspora is underutilized. The government should not be only after the money, but also after the experience and brains of the Diaspora. In 21st century, human capital is the most important asset.

 

Nobody on these forums knows how to accuratly judge or even understand the mechanics of a running a country and I think Armenia for the resources it has been provided is fareing better than most.

 

Keep in mind that their are many in the Diaspera that can be more of a utility, but they choose not to because it is a path not recommended for the self serving. You have to actually dedicate yourself, which is not an easy task for some.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[Vigil]

Lets just hope the good faith continues among Armenia and Georgia.

 

Associated Press Worldstream

March 12, 2004 Friday 3:08 PM Eastern Time

 

Gunfight erupts near restaurant where Georgian, Armenian presidents

dining, neither injured

 

by AVET DEMOURIAN; Associated Press Writer

 

YEREVAN, Armenia

 

 

A gunfight erupted Friday evening near a restaurant where the

presidents of Georgia and Armenia were dining, injuring at least

three people but leaving the two leaders unharmed, an official said.

 

The shooting started shortly after 10 p.m. local time between two

rival criminal groups outside the restaurant in the capital Yerevan,

an Interior Ministry official said on condition of anonymity.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and his Armenian counterpart

Robert Kocharian weren't injured and they even continued their meal

after the clash, the official said.

 

One person was arrested, and a gun and three knives confiscated,

according to the official. It didn't appear those involved in the

altercation were aware the presidents were nearby.

 

Kocharian commonly invites his guests to informal dinners at the

restaurant, located in the center of the city on the banks of a small

pond. The shooting began on the other side of the water.

 

Saakashvili was in Armenia for his first visit there since winning a

January election to replace former President Eduard Shevardnadze. The

U.S.-educated Saakashvili was the most prominent leader of protests

that forced Shevardnadze to resign in November, and he has received

strong support from Washington.

 

Earlier at a news conference, the two leaders said they agreed to

keep close contact and Saaskashvili praised Kocharian as an "ideal

partner" for Georgia.

 

Saaskashvili said Armenia could also help Georgia normalize its

relations with Russia, which have been complicated by the continued

presence of Russian troops and Moscow's support of separatist

regions.

 

On Friday, Russia's Foreign Ministry harshly warned Georgia against

trying to rein in the independent-minded region of Adzharia, whose

leader has maintained close ties with Russia.

 

Kocharian expressed support for new railroad lines to be built from

Russia through the Georgia's separatist Abkhazia region, which would

also link Armenia to Russia.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[Sasun]

It's kind of hard to believe that the gunfight had nothing to do with the presidents' dinner.

[genazwale]

*** your grandfathers ideology, dear Gurgen!

My grandmother was Armenian.

[gurgen]

It's not an ideology, the poor man was just quoting from his own experiences.

 

You may agree or disagree, I do not have an opinion, because I haven't experienced 1/100 of what he has.

[StealthSwine]

Georgia has always been Armenia's enemy.

 

The ONLY one Armenia needs is Russia, and thats the only one we should hold on to.

 

*** everyone else, Iran? USA? UK? TURKEY?

 

********! we need RUSSIA more than anything.

 

 

 

 

Edited for foul language

Edited March 21, 2004 by vava

[Vigil]

Georgia has always been Armenia's enemy.

 

The ONLY one Armenia needs is Russia, and thats the only one we should hold on to.

 

*** everyone else, Iran? USA? UK? TURKEY?

 

********! we need RUSSIA more than anything.

 

Yes, its this same Russia that holds Georgia and Armenia by its balls with the Kars treaty.

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil

[-=VAHE=-]

That guy should be A PHILOSOPHER!

[genazwale]

Hmmmm...

 

Slavish and caucasian soul can't weld really together!

Of course, we have to cooperate with Russia, but also to be careful!!!!!

Think about Chechenia!

 

 

 

 

 

Armenian News Network / Groong

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Kars agreement manipulated by Turks and Russians

From: "Katia M. Peltekian"

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:23:17 PST

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Pan Armenian Network, Armenia

March 18 2004

 

KARS AGREEMENT MANIPULATED BY TURKS AND RUSSIANS

 

Ankara and Moscow believe that the agreements concluded in 1921 give

them the right to interfere in the affairs of Georgia and even to

base their troops in Adzharia.

 

The anniversary of the Moscow agreement that stipulated illegal

annexation of a significant part of the territories of Western

Armenia by Turkey was marked on March 16 in Armenia. Several months

later clauses of the agreement were repeated in the famous Kars

agreement. These documents were very unpleasant for Georgia as they

led to establishment of an artificial state structure within the

Georgian SSR called Adzharian autonomy. Not only Yerevan but also

Tbilisi suffer the consequences of the Soviet-Turkish conspiracy. The

necessity to fight against manipulations of the shameful agreements

obliges Armenia and Georgia to become allies.

 

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Armenians always believed that the Moscow and

Kars agreements concluded with violation of norms of international

law should be denounced. Yerevan expects appropriate initiative from

Moscow.

 

However, on Monday the representative of the Russian Institute of CIS

countries, political scientist Mikhail Alexandrov said that Moscow

had to remind the official Tbilisi about the agreements defining the

status of Adzharia. Moscow and Kars agreements suppose that Russia

and Turkey be the warrantors of the Adzharian autonomy. He suggests

using this as an ''international-legal key factor'' for making

pressure on Mikhail Saakashvili. ''Adzharia's autonomy was not given

by Georgia,'' Aleksandrov says. But by whom? He does not answer this

question. He considers the lawful will of the official Tbilisi to

restore the control over Batumi as an attempt to liquidate the

autonomy and urges the Russian Foreign Ministry to interfere in the

internal affairs of the neighboring country taking advantage of its

status of warrantor. Moreover, he states that Moscow and Kars

agreements give Adzaria the possibility to separate from Georgia.

''No agreement - no autonomy. Consequently, Abashidze has the right

to proclaim independence,'' he says in fact backing the idea of

separatism.

 

The subject started in Moscow continued in Ankara. Turkish

authorities hinted at the possibility of basing their troops on the

territory of Adzharia. And they quote always the same agreements.

This is a proof that documents signed in 1921 in Kars and Moscow

continue to play an extremely negative role and may become a cover

for a new Turkish intervention. The outside forces may always find an

occasion for destabilization of the situation in the region. If the

world community wants to have a peaceful Caucasus, it has to do its

best to achieve the denouncement of the illegal agreements concluded

behind Armenians and Georgians by Vladimir Lenin and Mustafa Kemal.

 

 

[Groong note: For some relevant treaties, see:

http://groong.usc.edu/treaties/ -AB]

 

[StealthSwine]

Armenians are not caucasian, we have bred with locals and mixed bloods. that gives us our partly caucasianess

 

Kars treaty .......... who else wants Armenia? USA backs Azeri oil, turkey backs azeris and georgians.

 

we are surrounded, Iran is still muslim so they cant be trusted...but still they are a good ally...

 

Russia is the only one, no matter the past, it is the only one.

 

Europe will just play with us like they play with turkey.

 

Vahe, who should be a philosopher?

Edited March 22, 2004 by Sasun

[Vigil]

Armenians are not caucasian, we have bred with locals and mixed bloods. that gives us our partly caucasianess

 

Kars treaty my arse, who else wants Armenia? USA backs Azeri oil, turkey backs azeris and georgians.

 

we are surrounded, Iran is still muslim so they cant be trusted...but still they are a good ally...

 

Russia is the only one, no matter the past, it is the only one.

 

Europe will just play with us like they play with turkey.

 

Vahe, who should be a philosopher?

 

Why not just make Armenia a Russian colony?

Edited May 31, 2004 by Vigil