Arpa Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 MOY, Man of the Year. Yes, the MAN as in Mard, SevMard. This is a tribute to one of our most valuable correspondents. If I have not welcomed him formally then take this as a belated one. SevMard is not only one of our most balanced contibutors (his mind and soul is not polluted and paralysed by the memory of our most shameful era) he must also be used as model to some of regulars, he not only writes in impeccable Armenian he uses the correct Mashtotsian transliteration, obviously he is learning from better teachers rather than our so called Istanbul trained teachers who would rather write his nickname as Sev MART. He could also be the "posterboy" for those of us who claim that the Armenian language is impossible to learn. Having said, now the silly, not really. I wonder if SevMard knows that in the Armenian we have several euphemisms for Africans. The most common of which are "southern Armenian" and "chamich". Yes chamich as in raisin, as in "A Raisin in the Sun" by David Suskind. I don't know whether our "chamich" was independently composed or it is a translation. Who and when coined the nickname of "raisin"?? Nicknames applied to Africann Americans and "blacks" in general may have come full circle from "negro" to "black", to "colored", to "African American", back to "black" etc. I still use "negro" with no malice, and at times, with much love and respect as the word simply means "black". And then there is that other "N" word. I did not know that the blacks themselves use the word in very dire occasions. Mainly among thermsleves to describe a very bad "brother". Here is a story. Clevester (his real name)was the "village idiot" who liked grape juice(fermented). He had an encyclopedic mind. I said, "was" hence he has joined the heavenly army of angels. He forgot nothing. He could recite the entire Bible cover to cover. When his solicitations for funds were denied he would leave the premises slapping his pants saying; "Kiss my nigger ass"! Every semi-monthly, when welfare checks were due the local thugs would assault and denude him of his funds. One day he appeared with his arm in a cast. Upon questions he indicated that "THE "nigger" had broken his arm trying to find the welfare money. I asked; "Which nigger"? He said; "How do I know? All niggers look alike! Of course, eventually he told me who had done it. Once again. This is a tribute to SevMard, we love you and respect you, and if we have nothing nice to say, please keep your lips zipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Hey Arpa, are you saying that there should be no such thing as Western Armenian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Hey Arpa, are you saying that there should be no such thing as Western Armenian? You got it right!!! There is no such thing as "eastern" or "western". There is only one Armenian(language), that is the Mesropian. Everything else is just as a provincial dialect, some of which have had their (Ottoman/Turkish) days. Of all the above, is that all you could say? Nothing about our "brother" SevMard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
den_wolf Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) Of all the above, is that all you could say? Nothing about our "brother" SevMard? I don't know SevMard, and I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic about the whole thing, so I'm not going to jump in on this one. About the dialect, even in English, there are different dialects (word choice, accent, and so on) depending on what part of the English speaking world you look at. Us English folk don't use certain words in the same context as Americans do. Ditto for Australians. Ditto for Canadians. Ditto for the accent. As for Western Armenian, I do speak it. And frankly, while I like the pronounciation of Eastern Armenian better, I dislike written (spelling) of Eastern Armenian. Edited February 7, 2004 by den_wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 I don't know SevMard, and I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic about the whole thing, so I'm not going to jump in on this one. About the dialect, even in English, there are different dialects (word choice, accent, and so on) depending on what part of the English speaking world you look at. Us English folk don't use certain words in the same context as Americans do. Ditto for Australians. Ditto for Canadians. Ditto for the accent. As for Western Armenian, I do speak it. And frankly, while I like the pronounciation of Eastern Armenian better, I dislike written (spelling) of Eastern Armenian. No, nothing sarcastic. I did state above that it was all with "love and respect". Perhapd now you can say something nice about SevMard. As to "dialect", I also was brought up in the so called "western", yet, as you indicate there are so may variations of Englsih, but read this post. Which dialect is it written in? American, British, Australian, ...Indian...Zimbabweian? There is ONE literary English, whether you are in Afghanistan or Zululand. Why must Armenian be so different???!!! Speaking of "unity"!!! I should write in the Zeitun or Marash, Musa Ler, or for that matter... Hamshen dialect and see where it will get us!!! As to the written orthography of the "eastern" it is not "orthodox", it is sovietized and it will change soon, if it not already in the process. PS. This is not the proper subject topic to talk about language and orthography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Arpa, You are now in the company of Kocharian who once denigratingly referred to Western Armenians as "TOORKAHYES." We have a right to be considered Armenians. We have our history and our ways. Who are you to beliitle our history or our accomplishments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 There is ONE literary English No there isn't Think neighbour and neighbor. Different than or different from? And many, many more. As for SevMard, in dedication to him, here's an African (Hausa to be exact) story to discuss and even argue about Excuse the language, but at least now we know where the "myth" of sev mards comes from :) The Horny Head champion, the Penis champion, the Farting champion, and the Testicles champion set off on a journey together. They came to a town, where they lodged in the compound of the chief. Bundles of corn were sent to feed them from the chief's storehouse -- but the town had nowhere to thresh it! Then the Horny Head said, "May the chief's life be prolongued! Here we are and yet they're looking for a place to thresh. Let them come and do it on my head!" So they came and undid the bundles on Horny Head's noggin. But then they had to find a piece of wood with which to thresh the corn so Penis said, "May the chief's life be prolongued! Here we are now, and yet they're looking for something to thresh with! Just give me a bit of room and you'll see!" And pulling out his penis, he began threshing, and presently the corn was threshed. But there was no wind, and word was brought to the chief that, though corn was threshed, there was no wind and so could be no winnowing. Then said the Wind Breaker, "May the chief's life be prolongued! Here we are, and in spite of that they're still looking for wind!" And he unveiled his anus, and let it rip. And all the chaff was blown away, leaving just the grain. But they had no bag to put the grain in. So Testicles said, "May the chief's life be prolongued! Here we are, and in spite of what we've done, they're still looking for a sack to catch the grain!" And opening his scrotum, he said, "Bring me the grain and pour it in here." And they did it, and he carried the corn home. Among the four of them that exercised his special gift, who was the champion? One last: Three storytellers met one day and began to tell stories. Each of them thought that he could excel the others. The first man said, "I will tell you the story of what I saw." "One day I went to the field and saw two birds fighting. One bird swallowed the other, and then in turn was swallowed by the other bird, so that the two birds swallowed each other." The next one said, "One day I was going out to the field and I saw a man on the road who had cut off his head and had it in his mouth eating it." The third man said, "I was going to a big town and I saw a woman coming from the town with a house, a farm, and all her things on her head. I asked the woman where she was going, and she told me she heard news that she had never heard before. I asked her what it was. The woman said she had heard the news that one man cut off his head and had it in his mouth eating it, so I was afraid and left the town. The woman passed and I went on." Who told the biggest story? I have some really good ones in this book, but most are way too long to type. I might post a few shorter ones again later. By the way, Armenians in Armenia say "nègre", as in French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 Indeed, Sev Mard is cool. I dedicate this trophy to the man. http://www.plaxx.com/fth_images/trophies/large_cup/large/1511.jpg Hey Arpa, are you saying that there should be no such thing as Western Armenian? And yes den_wolf, that is the subliminal message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) What a man, what a man, what a man What a mighty good man I whanna take a minute or two... ------------------------------------------- On a more serious note, Sev Mard is making a valuable contribution, which is difficult to overestimate. Edit: just changed the emoticon. Edited February 7, 2004 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) No there isn't Think neighbour and neighbor. Different than or different from? And many, many more.[/b] Nairi you surprise me. Yes, we are talking about a man of colOUR. Here you are, from AmsterDAM, RotterDam or any other DAM :) place yet we have never heard anyone complain about your English or Americanish. Never a day goes by when we don't hear someone complaining about Yerevan and Beirut vernacular, never a day goes by when we don't hear someone complaining that they don't understand one or the other. There are 5 billion 900 million 9,999,999 speakers of English. Who is that 0000000000000001 person that does not. Writers all the way from Alaska to Zambia, from Amsterdam to Queensland, from Yerevan to Yucatan, from Beirut to Botswana, some may be nighbOURs and others not, some may be of colOUR others not yet we all get the humOUR. If six billion can communicate in the universal language that Americanish is what is our excuse a mere less than 2 million who actually speak and can write in Yerevanish. Or was it Hollandish or Hyderabadish? But, egeyn, ez b4 dis is nat du pleys 2 diskass du sed sheyp av awr lenkwij. Edited February 7, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 But, egeyn, ez b4 dis is nat du pulays 2 diskass the sed sheyp av awr lankwij. Lol Arpa, what you say about English is only partly true. I'd like to see you understand the Macroom accent (Ireland -- County Cork), to give just one example of a dialect that is near impossible to understand Or how about Liverpudlian? Or Edinburghian? Or simply "Negro" American from the South? Point is that even among native-speakers there are communication problems, unless the two speakers speak a standard as opposed to a dialect. A person speaking RP (or BBC) English will have no trouble understanding someone speaking General (or Standard) American. But try to get a Texan from Hicksville to communicate with a Nottinghammer from the slums and see how far you get.. Same goes for Holland. An Amsterdammer and a Rotterdammer barely understand each other, let alone a Groninger and a Limburger (no Sip that's not food ). That's the nature of language It's living and dynamic. It adapts itself to its surroundings and people. No matter how much you try to isolate a language and standardize it, it will continue to change. You don't speak the same language as your parents and your children don't speak the same language as you. You don't even need to put any effort into this; it just happens naturally. Try to watch movies or documentaries from the 1940s and you'll notice yourself how different people spoke then than they do now. There are different reasons as to how and potentially why this happens. I might write about this or post relevant sources later. And what's more, even two people speaking the same dialect in the same area may not understand each other!! In fact, every time you pronounce the same word or sentence, you pronounce it differently, even under conditioned circumstances. So take it a step further and we're talking about idiolects: the language that each individual speaks. You have your set of active vocab, grammar and pronunciation (as well as other features) and I have mine. Unless you're a brilliant imitator, you'll never be able to imitate my speech, and even then, you'll only be imitating. As for me, I learned (and am still learning) standard British and American. So it shouldn't be surprising that you, who has also learned a standard, understand me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted February 7, 2004 Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 As for me, I learned (and am still learning) standard British and American. So it shouldn't be surprising that you, who has also learned a standard, understand me. But even here, let me add, there can be (embarrassing) misunderstandings. Is it a truck or a lorry? Petrol or gas? These are "easy" examples, but it goes to show how even standards can be very different and at times an obstacle to communication even when spoken by speakers of standard varieties (e.g. British and American). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2004 (edited) This thread was dedicated to SevMard, but as always it turned into a tonguelashing war. I will copy some of the comments that may be marginally relevent and paste in a different thread under Language. Watch for Chapanish Hayeren/Standard Armenian Edited February 7, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Due to Arpa's request and his kind eloquence - here's to SevMard who truly has contributed to our beloved forum. I hope that his presence and 'openness' has in turn opened some eyes and ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Ditto on SevMard. He is our super cool member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 When his solicitations for funds were denied he would leave the premises slapping his pants saying; "Kiss my nigger ass"! :lol2: Good one! Sevulik is indeed an epiphany of a man in every spectrum, and more so for his genuine admiration of his girlfriend! Sevulik you are without a doubt a hye class mart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Wow, Yes hima barryer chu'nem. I don't know what to say. This post is pretty cool, some interesting things have been said , but overall I think this post is a good thing. I definately appreciate the love and am happy to be here. As for my Hayaren, i'm using books I can get my hands on, and the web and teaching myself as much as I can. Of course chatting up my girl and my friends when I get the chance. I do respect the language and the culture and do my best to convey both whilst i'm here. I do realize that this isn't 'techincally' a place for me, but I believe with those things, respect being most important and an open mind, anyone should be able to get along, have fun, and grow with anyone else. eveli yes uzzumem asel, "hazar mercinyer!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 "hazar mercinyer!" hangarz rabiz chdarnas agper jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) inch gesses gor shakhs? <_< yes rabiz chem darnelu....hehe hyer hokinyer sirumem bayts......rabiz Edited February 9, 2004 by sev-mard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Way to go Sevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 I mean I can get along with rabiz too, they're just so busying looking tough in Sean John sweat suit with gold brimmed shades and chains. I was at the North Hollywood car wash waiting for my car, checking out the rabiz checking out the girls who were far too young for them. I had to just smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Hehe rabiz are funny as hell, just the Russian words they use with such fluency... "Ape menkh nents dvizhenii mech einkh engel fazs lriv gesh ktsets" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALTnPEPA92 Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Hehe rabiz are funny as hell, just the Russian words they use with such fluency... "Ape menkh nents dvizhenii mech einkh engel fazs lriv gesh ktsets" wait..I am guessing sev-mard you are black? WOW lol...how did you learn Armenian? (very interesting) actually one of my cousins believe it or not is half black and Armenian, but my family was so ashamed that my aunt married a black person, we no longer speak with that side of the family... (although I din't agree with my aunt marrying a black person, no offense to you sevmard, i am sad that I can't keep in touch with my cousins) ~Tatev Avoyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Why are you ashamed of your pepper - Salt & Pepa? And seriously - if your Aunt was/is in love - how is it your place to approve or not..and its your loss most likely - that your close minded attitudes have lead to your no longer having a relationship with your Aunt....think about it. And maybe you should make the attempt to let her know that she is OK by you - no matter what choices she has made for herself -and that you are a bigger person then you may once have been..etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALTnPEPA92 Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Why are you ashamed of your pepper - Salt & Pepa? And seriously - if your Aunt was/is in love - how is it your place to approve or not..and its your loss most likely - that your close minded attitudes have lead to your no longer having a relationship with your Aunt....think about it. And maybe you should make the attempt to let her know that she is OK by you - no matter what choices she has made for herself -and that you are a bigger person then you may once have been..etc etc no hun, i didn't make the decision to stop talking to her, my family did..we had so much drama in our household about her and my cousin...i miss them a lot, but my mom and dad said i could not speak to them or i would be an insult to the family...ya...i accepted her and my cousin she even knew armenian. too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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