Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Actually, since this has been moved, due to the stupid comments about racism and such, I'd like to ask the mods to lock this topic as well, since the discussion has gone way off topic, and is proving the inability of our members to have a discussion without adhering to personal attacks. I've said all I had to say about Martin Luther King Jr., and at the rate this thread is going, I don't think anyone's interested in discussing Martin luther King and the article I posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 God bless you Dan. Ooopps... I just plagiarized this expression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 :lol2: haha, that's a common statement, not plagiarism. plagiarism is when you imitate/copy someone's writing. But nice try, Sasun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 And we also should be aware that myths tend to be built up around historical figures (and events and such) that don't always reflect the whole or even actual truth (I highly recommend a book called "Lies Accross America" for more along these lines...read that one yet Steve?). For weight reduction reasons alone I considered throwing it in the nearest bin (which I did with your calendar and playing cards) but I am no more a book discarder than I am a book burner. And I found similarities to the book's details about the changing of traditional American place names into more "acceptable" ones with the changing of Armenian place names in Turkey into Turkish ones. Oh, and about Martin Luther King junior - he was a rabble-rousing demagogue who was fortunate enough to die before his true personality revealed itself. I cringe when I listen to his Hitler-like speaches - they are so lacking in originality and humanity. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I cringe when I listen to his Hitler-like speaches - they are so lacking in originality and humanity. ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Oh, and about Martin Luther King junior - he was a rabble-rousing demagogue who was fortunate enough to die before his true personality revealed itself. I agree with that part, but I don't quite understand what you mean by the following: I cringe when I listen to his Hitler-like speaches - they are so lacking in originality and humanity. maybe you could elaborate? Actually -- you're right about the originality part, as he was a plagiarist, and as for his humanity part -- well, he might've done good to the black people w.r.t the civil rights movement, but let's not forget that he was a hypocrite and the fact that he did some good to cover up his hypocrisy, or rather, to gain popularity ("rabble-rousing" heh..) doesn't make him (or shouldn't make him) a hero who gets a day in his name.. Edited January 23, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Martin Luther King also has said that we are all God's children - obviously he was not the first person to say that. Are we to consider him un-original or unworthy of what he is perceived today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Sasun, he was un-original in his writings and speeches. as for the unworthy part, I'd say he's unworthy of getting a day in his name. Abraham Lincoln doesn't get to have a day of his own... or George Washington for that matter... except for the very general "president's day" or something along those lines.. and those were good men. i'm sure people have tried to find some bad things about them, but I'm not sure if there is any.. my bad if there are any such aspects to their lives too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Sasun, he was un-original in his writings and speeches. as for the unworthy part, I'd say he's unworthy of getting a day in his name. Abraham Lincoln doesn't get to have a day of his own... or George Washington for that matter... except for the very general "president's day" or something along those lines.. and those were good men. i'm sure people have tried to find some bad things about them, but I'm not sure if there is any.. my bad if there are any such aspects to their lives too.. Yep. I agree with "Dan" here that Martin Luther King wasn't original in fact this wasn't news to me I just didn't post it for fear of being smeared. You know what I'm against anyone having a "day". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Dan, are you jelous that there is not a Dan's day? Seriously, I think that his day is not actually his day but black people's day, sort of a payback for all the bad things that were done to them. So I think it is good to have Luther's day. Overall what he has done is huge and it doesn't matter that he has copied a line or two. He lost his life for his cause - that's something far greater than his lack of originality. After all he is not celebrated for his originality but for his political activities and non-violent movement - a big deal really, unlike plagiarism charges that are really a small deal compared. We are talking about minor flaws after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 To understand the minds of those who profit from racial politics of America one must understand how the forces that are controlling the past by controlling the present. America has become a "Democracy" and the goal is "equality". That is what the underlying premise is for Communism/Socialism, etc. To the degree that America is a Republic, that was to uphold the exact inequalities, of life and property, it is no more. Now it is no different than what Communism would be, the goal for the neverreaching "equality". Egalitarianism is a false concept, yet I'm amazed at how many people are suckers for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Sasun, lol.. jealous? of a fornicator? of course not. like I said, Sasun, he might've done a lot of good things, but that's not the point here -- the point is that he did something wrong. he used and abused women. and no matter how much good he did to black people, i still think he's not the best example of THE hero, which black people obviously think he is/was.. and if it's black people's day, i don't see why it's called in his name -- i think he's the least worthy of all blacks to have a day in his name.. i'm sure there were black people out there who contributed as much as he did, and didn't do all those bad things. they just didn't get mentioned because they were foreshadowed by luther king. and i think it's a shame.. and it's a shame that the only place you can read the truth about a black "hero" is on a website that is called "racist"... i'm all for racial equality, but i'm also for truth to be talked about without censorship and without any bias due to historical events (slavery, etc.) Edited January 23, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Egalitarianism is a false concept, yet I'm amazed at how many people are suckers for it. True, that is just not going to happen. I don't even look for it to happen. I'm about having at least a shot, even a quasi-fair shot, to succeed, and respect as a man. The rest is pretense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 True, that is just not going to happen. I don't even look for it to happen. I'm about having at least a shot, even a quasi-fair shot, to succeed, and respect as a man. The rest is pretense. That has nothing to do with egalitarianism. What fair chance do you want? Affirmitive action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Oh God! No no no, no affirmative action.... Think I was gonna give it to you that easy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 That has nothing to do with egalitarianism. What fair chance do you want? Affirmitive action? well said, Anonymouse. That is what pisses me off about the whole equality thing.. first they ask for equality, then they demand special treatment. well, equality is not about being given privileges that others don't have (visible minorities checkboxes on job applications, anyone?)... it's about given an equal chance to APPLY for a job, and having to compete with the rest of them for that job, instead of yelling foul play and saying you didn't get the job because you're black... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 OK, Dan he did something wrong , I am not going to argue with that... so you would prefer that it was somebody else's day. May I ask whose name should it have been in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Fair in the sense of not being held back simply because of racist attitudes. This includes hiring practices, or other ppl in the work place. Just the idea that if i'm as smart as anyone else, or work just as hard, i'll at least have a chance for success like the next man. You feel me? AA is a joke man. Didn't want it, didn't work, doesn't work. Caused more hate and misconception than what existed before it. White women benefited more handsomely in many cases than any so called minority. AA is stupid, to me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) Egalitarianism is a false concept, yet I'm amazed at how many people are suckers for it. I suggest you read Igor Shafarevich's "socialist phenomenon" (if you haven't done so already ) As for America becoming socialist in the strict sense of the term, I have some doubts. The abolition of private property doesn't seem to be likely in a near future. Edited January 23, 2004 by axel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 does it have to be in anyone's name? i'm not familiar with his contemporaries -- i can say i'd probably come up with a name if i did some research -- but why do you feel it's necessary to have someone's name? can't it just be "black day" or "black pride" or "black civil rights day" or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) instead of yelling foul play and saying you didn't get the job because you're black... Ok sure, there are some who do that, but not all. Please. You cats are sounding like you're getting hurt by "blacks". I mean armos are out in my area doing mad shady sh!t, I don't hate on all of them. Don't act like blacks hold the monopoly on being shady. And it's not all of us doing these things. Get out, meet some ppl like myself, scholars, men with honor and respect, not moronic idiots. If one black person does something, god forbid it negative, i like how it conviently applies to every other black person that ever walked the planet. You as armenians would/could/and do hate on this type of thought process concerning your own people. Edited January 23, 2004 by sev-mard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) People will hire whom they want. This proves that a "mixed society" cannot function because of precisely these things. Affirmitive action is a socialistic tool. Those who demand equality or fairness, minorities, feminists, the list goes on of all the victims, rely on the State, an every increasing bigger Leviathan, more legislation, and more regulation, more laws, and more harping on property rights. If I have a business, it is my property, I can hire whoever I want. The government violates my property rights forcing me to hire whom they want. Now this isn't tosay I won't hire women or blacks. I will hire whoever is qualified for the job, since it is my business, I wouldn't want to hire someone who is not qualified. Affirmitive action is an insult to everyone, meaning it suggests that blacks and other minorities cannot compete with others. I don't see Asians having a tough time with this. Affirmitive action makes you dependent on the State, the welfare State. It was precisely the capitalist revolution that ushered in the division of labor, consonant with the inequalities of nature, and allowed for each individual to specialize and develop themselves. Anything contrary is going to impede on the individual and the property rights of the individual, and eventually the free market. Edited January 23, 2004 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 It's all crap man, I don't need a day, that's all civic opium. And causes more trouble than anything. He was a man like any other, I looked up to him as a youth of course, yet when i learned of his hipocracy I also rightfully so lost much respect for him. There have been men like him before, and there shall be more, of all colors and races. I have to agree with The Mouse on this one, nobody needs a day, screw it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 sev-mard, i think you're misunderstanding my posts.. i never said all black people yell foul play. i think a lot of people do, actually. and i've witnessed it a lot. i've heard people b*tch about it. A LOT of people. now that doesn't mean that there aren't black people out there who don't blame others for their own mistakes or for not getting a job, etc. i never said ALL black people are like that.. i've met a few black people at university who are quite educated and respectful of others regardless of skin colour, nationality, etc. i think the main problem with black people is that they take everything the wrong way -- see how you accused me of generalisation.. i never said ALL black people yelled foul play in that comment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 People have to understand that politics, and politicians profit from this. Politics divides up people into groups based on race, ethnicity, culture, religion, ideology, and gender, and it forces you to pick an armed camp and that only through taht will your interests be met, and this automatically pits you against another group. All political systems are socialistic, in that they will used whatever means necessary, be it social security or race, to maintain and legitimize their existence, and people false believe that they can work through the system to reach their goals. Fock Democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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