gamavor Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 It is not about fantasy. It is about need of diminutive words that express gratitude, warm feelings, appreciation, motherly love, tampering, etc.. and there are lots of Armenian words to express such feelings or to make a conversation more plausible. Maralcho I can teach you some of those words in a private session - one on one. Just tell me what you drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hajis is not an Armenian word, in eastern, western or grabar. The problem is that Armenians think it is Armenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 It is not about fantasy. It is about need of diminutive words that express gratitude, warm feelings, appreciation, motherly love, tampering, etc.. and there are lots of Armenian words to express such feelings or to make a conversation more plausible. Maralcho I can teach you some of those words in a private session - one on one. Just tell me what you drink. style_images/master/snapback.png ahhhh so the drink will convince me? btw..that was a very beautiful and articulate way of expressing your view...good job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Sirounik, Gakavik, Aghvorik, and other ....***iks:) Edit: I still belive in the inosence of vo***! Edited August 31, 2004 by gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Sirounik, Gakavik, Aghvorik, and other ....voriks:) style_images/master/snapback.png well you were doing fine 'till that last word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Gamavor, if you were a deity, i'd worship you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Only my friends who speak Arabahye use hajis. Easten Armenian speaks never use it. As far as the people I know. style_images/master/snapback.png Yeah, I am sure you would know. Gamavor, I hope you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 He didn't offend me...he showed his lack of taste and his amazing ability to lower himself. style_images/master/snapback.png Maral, but you got to admit most Armenians from Middle-Eastern Countries have taken in a lot of foreign culture. However, a lot of Armenians from Armenian are Russophiles; so, to say this problem is not universal one is a bit inconsistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Maral, but you got to admit most Armenians from Middle-Eastern Countries have taken in a lot of foreign culture. However, a lot of Armenians from Armenian are Russophiles; so, to say this problem is not universal one is a bit inconsistent. style_images/master/snapback.png Vigil, not a lot! They are totaly into it. I stoped going to Armenian parties for that reason. The problem is that these people (I'm not talking about Maral, she is sweet, sweet sweetheart) are Armenians only by name. Cut the loses and move up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) The word "please" more or less is related to asking for something rather than pleasing or being pleased, right? It's true "hajis" does not exist in Eastern or Western Armenian dictionaries, yet "xndrel (khntrel)" does in both. I hate the word "hajis" anyway, it sounds Arabic to me (even though I know it's not). "Xndrel" and "Xndrum em" sounds so much nicer, NO? Edited August 31, 2004 by Proud EXPAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dojudo Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 "Hajis" is definitely Western Armenian. Those who do speak the dialogue rarely use any word that is not originally Armenian. The roots of this word if not in Grapar then they must have evolved from another word, like "hajeli" that our friend mentioned. I don't know how credible this is, but this is all I could find on the net. http://www.elite.net/~runner/jennifers/please.htm oh and I had to reregister to post. why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig9 Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Maybe hajis is Greek, just like haideh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 (edited) "Hajis" is definitely Western Armenian. style_images/master/snapback.png It certainly is of Western Armnian origin since it is a direct translation of "s'il vous plais/if it pleases you/yete qez hajo/hajeli e" [/] that was adopted during the Western Armenian, aka Kilikian times. Here is part of what I wrote on Dec, 21, 2003. You can find it on page 2 of this thread; Another thing is, as in the case of "shnorhakal em"(from grazia/grace) hajis is probably also a direct translation from other European languages, like the English "(if you) please" and the French "si'l vou plais", (pleasure/plaisir/hajuyq). "hajis" in fact, just like in the English is an abbreviated version "yete ku hajis", another indication that it is of western Armenian origin, I don't believe eastern has equivalent like "hajum es". Did Armenians use "hajis" and "shnorhakal em" before they met the Europeans, i.e. during and after the Kilikian Kingdom? To me it seems not as both expressions of civility and endearment seem to be direct translations. Edited August 31, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 would someone tell me if these words are Armenian or not? becouse we use it in daily basess.....................janit ghurban bala jan and I think the word hajis is sweet no matter if its Armenian or not but i havent come across any arab who uses this word, mostly i agree with harut, khajenas, hajenal, hajis is just short version. inch kasess Arpa jan? style_images/master/snapback.png This is very odd. I cannot find the origin of "bala/balas". Ajarian does not even consider it. I was going to say it was the only Armenian word in the above phrase. It must not be an Armenian word. Here is my take of it. Some time ago I wrote a piece about Paul/Paulus where I indicated that it is from the Greek to mean "small". ( The apostle Paul was renamed such based on the fact that his Hebrew name was Saul and that he was of small stature). To refresh, many Greek surnames end in "polos/poulos" to mean the "little one/son of ". In some Armenian dialects, particularly those of the Kilikians(Marash and Zeitun) "poloz" means child. Obviously from the Greek "paulos/poulos/polos". So. Is "bala" another variation of "boloz/poloz". As to "jan/ghurban" neither of them are native Armenian. Jan is from Persian to mean "soul/hogi", or spirit, used by many ME languages that even appears in the English as "jinn" or "genie". Ghurban is a Persian word that means "sacrifice" as that Moslem feast known as "Id al Adha" in Arabic known as "ghurban bayram", also in the Turkish. It is the feast after the pilgrimage when an animal (usually a sheep, or even a camel depending on the geography ad culture) is slaughtered, the blood is smeared, much like the Armenian custom of smearing in the form of a cross. However, all of the words above have been a part of Armenian culture, so much so that we don't even pause to question. Here is the words of a song. I have forgotten all the words; Maratukh bartsr sarin, Ay Dzyun a kitvel katarin, Ay. ..... Akhber jan qez ghurban, Du es tu mer kyuman. More on "ghurban" and "kyuman", may be later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgm1975 Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 If Hadjis may not be Armenian, what is the Armenian "please"? What do they use in Armenia? I never came across another word for "please" other than hadjis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 If Hadjis may not be Armenian, what is the Armenian "please"? Dear J, if the above quote is directed to me then KHNDREM, I beg of you show us where I said it was NOT Armenian. What I said was that it was a direct translation from the French and English of "s'il vous plais" and "if you please" where both use the word "plaisir/pleasure/hajuyq". Does that mean it is NOT Armenian? What is the Armenian word for "automobile"? Is it not "inqn-a-sharzh"? Inqn=auto, sharzh=movement, mobile, a direct translation? Does that make it less Armenian? Can we get off the emotional mode and go a scientific one, i.e Armenians did not invent everything, some are adopted, copied, translated and assimilated. No shame here!! What do they use in Armenia? I never came across another word for "please" other than hadjis. Yes, hajis!!! tell us what word did we use before "hajis", and what do the Eastern Armenians use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 If Hadjis may not be Armenian, what is the Armenian "please"? What do they use in Armenia? I never came across another word for "please" other than hadjis. style_images/master/snapback.png They use "XNDREM/KHNTREM" in Armenia. I think we have mentioned this quite a few times in this thread. They DO NOT KNOW "Hajis" in Armenia, unless they have learned it from a Western Armenian. Nowadays almost every Hayastantsi I come across knows most of the popular Western Armenian words, ie. hos/hon, yertam/yegur, asank/anank/adank, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgm1975 Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 (edited) Dear J, if the above quote is directed to me then KHNDREM, I beg of you show us where I said it was NOT Armenian. My post was not directed at you. In fact it was directed at no one. I was simply curious whether there were other ways of saying "hadjis". I am in favour of eliminating the Eastern Armenian - Western Armenian dichotomy in order to have a single stream that takes the pronunciation of the Eastern Armenian consonants (i.e. Daniel and David, not Taniel and Taniel), but the Western Armenian script and vowels (i.e. Manoukian and Büzantian, not Manoukyan and Byouzantyan). That is why this subject caught my attention. Just curiosity... Edited September 1, 2004 by jgm1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Vigil, not a lot! They are totaly into it. I stoped going to Armenian parties for that reason. The problem is that these people (I'm not talking about Maral, she is sweet, sweet sweetheart) are Armenians only by name. Cut the loses and move up! style_images/master/snapback.png Yeah, they were "Arab Armenains" before now they are "African Armenians". In a few years from now you will see Armenians using ebonics and claiming it is Armenian in origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 (edited) Yeah, they were "Arab Armenains" before now they are "African Armenians". In a few years from now you will see Armenians using ebonics and claiming it is Armenian in origin. style_images/master/snapback.png In a few years? You must not hang out in Pasadena, this has already happened. But I'm anti ebonics myself so I'm not too sad about it's "appropriation." You're a guy with issues. I mean how can someone who doesn't care about odars, blacks especially always have something to say about black people. In an Armenian forum? You're a whiner man, get over yourself. For a pro-Armenian you spend a lot of time worry about what black people are doing. Seriously. Edited September 7, 2004 by sev-mard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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