Harut Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 yes, the root հաճել/հաճենալ/հաճույք/... [hajel]/[hajenal]/[hajuyq]/... is of Armenian origin. the word Աստվածահաճո [astvatsahajo] is seen in early Armenian religous writings a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 hajis is arevmedahye for "friend" who is junior to you. isnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 hajis is arevmedahye for "friend" who is junior to you. isnt it? never heard that one before… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Now if only we had a proper dictionary, we wouldn't be so confused I still go with Harut's explanation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted December 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Now if only we had a proper dictionary, we wouldn't be so confused I still go with Harut's explanation... But why? what the heck does Harut know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 But why? what the heck does Harut know? Harut, are you sleeping? Yerb es harutyun arnelu? How can you let such a barb goby? :) === To me it seems as if "hajis" is of western Armenian origin. What is the common eastern equivalent of it? Is it "khndrem" etc? First about the "haji". I don't remember us calling our friends "haji". Yes, I have. It is sometimes used by people from Arabic speaking countries or Turkey. It is an expression of respect and usually used when addressing older people, just like "sheikh". The latter means "elder" while the former is used to address people who have gone on pilgrimmage/haj. Armenians have borrowed the word and applied to people who have gone to Jerusalem on pilgrimage, so much so that I have known people who had Haji as their legal personal name, both male and female. As to hajis, the reason for my suspicion of being of western origin is Ajarian does not treat it, if only in passing under the monopgraph of "haj" while Soukiassyan (Disctionary of Synonyms, Eater Armenian)does not even mention it. Ajarian treats "haj" with esamples likehjyal, hasht, barehambuyr, and when he comes to "hajil" he has this to say, havanil, akhorzhil, sirel, hashtvil. Then he goes into the origin which I will skip. Another thing is, as in the case of "shnorhakal em"(from grazia/grace) hajis is probably also a direct translation from other European languages, like the English "(if you) please" and the French "si'l vou plais", (pleasure/plaisir/hajuyq). "hajis" in fact, just like in the English is an abbreviated version "yete ku hajis", another indication that it is of western Armenian origin, I don't believe eastern has equivalent like "hajum es". Did Armenians use "hajis" and "shnorhakal em" before they met the Europeans, i.e. during and after the Kilikian Kingdom? To me it seems not as both expressions of civility and endearment seem to be direct translations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Like the Greeks have last names like Hadzigeorgou... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Look what I found http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...indpost&p=12072 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Look what I found Thank you Nairi. My question was not so much if Yerevantsis use "hajis" or not, I know they do, but assuming that it is probably of western origin ("[yete ku] hajis"), I was wondering if there was a native word for it. Just as the easterners have adopted it the westerners have adopted the "khndrem" which also seems to be translated from the English "I beg your pardon" or the French "Je vous emprie". And as we are talking about the subect I suspect another expression was also imported from the French, "vochinch" from "ne/de rien" in response to merci? The English sometimes use "don't mention(it)". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Like the Greeks have last names like Hadzigeorgou... I'm sure. Just like some Armenians use Haji Gevorg etc. In fact I knew one whose official name was Haji Nazar simply because he had the tattoo as proof of pilgrimmage to Jerusalem. Oh! BTW many who were given the Haji as their first names had been born on the way to or in Jerusalem, or some kind of pledge (oukht). That opens another can. I don't know Greek but would "haja" or "hadza" to mean holy as in Haja Sophia have anything to do with haji i.e. been on pilgrimage to Jerusalem or Mecca, hence holy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Arpa jan ( non-Armenian word alert! ), I wouldn't be surprised if these were indeed translations, if only because Armenians have no shnorhq... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 Arpa jan ( non-Armenian word alert! ), I wouldn't be surprised if these were indeed translations, if only because Armenians have no shnorhq... I chickened out :) I didn't want to say that, I was trying to be as "shnorhali" as possible, lest I be shot. As always you're a good 'between the lines' reader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 I doubt very much that there is any connection between the "hajis" used by ME Armenians and the word hatjeli. Although, what about k'hajenas or k'kamenas...I would translate it as "would you please?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheekY Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 I doubt very much that there is any connection between the "hajis" used by ME Armenians and the word hatjeli. Although, what about k'hajenas or k'kamenas...I would translate it as "would you please?". same root? i thought hajis is the same as k'hajenas or k'kamenas... only eastern armenians don't use "is" but "es" and "as"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 same root? i thought hajis is the same as k'hajenas or k'kamenas... only eastern armenians don't use "is" but "es" and "as"? It's just that haj doesn't sound Armenian, more like Arabic. Hatjeli yeah, with the letter Ճ. Because in Armenian it's Հաճելի while in ME language they pronounce that word not sure how they spell but it sounds as Հաջիս. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iran01 Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 "hajis" must be "pure" Armenian. The Arabic word "haj" means pilgrimage , immigration ..etc I have not heard of "hajis" in Persian or Turkish for that matter. The only word in Persian which comes close to "hajis" as please..etc is "khaahesh". "khaahesh" has several usage in Persian such as: "asking, wish, please, dont mention it..". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Thank you Nairi. My question was not so much if Yerevantsis use "hajis" or not, I know they do, but assuming that it is probably of western origin ("[yete ku] hajis"), I was wondering if there was a native word for it. I live in Yerevan, I've never met any Yerevanci that knows the word hajis unless they have heard it form a Western Armenian. Plus I just looked in my awesome Eastern Armenian dictionary, and it doesn't even exist in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Plus I just looked in my awesome Eastern Armenian dictionary, and it doesn't even exist in it. style_images/master/snapback.png i don't know all the terminologies to write in english, but... հաճիսը բառի ուղիղ ձևը չի: այն հաճենալ բառի բաղձական ժամանակն է: միգուցե այնտեղ լինի: Edited August 30, 2004 by Harut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Only Arab Armenians use "hajis". It is not even in the Western Armenian Dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) Only my friends who speak Arabahye use hajis. Easten Armenian speaks never use it. As far as the people I know. Edited August 30, 2004 by sev-mard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 would someone tell me if these words are Armenian or not? becouse we use it in daily basess.....................janit ghurban bala jan and I think the word hajis is sweet no matter if its Armenian or not but i havent come across any arab who uses this word, mostly i agree with harut, khajenas, hajenal, hajis is just short version. inch kasess Arpa jan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Lets make Armenia rich country and then after a generation or so all turkism and arabism will disappear without a trace. Were Armenians blond? Well, maybe not all, but if both parents are brunets and suddenly their offspring is blond? No, no, forget about this option...I'm talking about something else which is very real and which happens after 80 years undisturbed Armenian life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 (edited) would someone tell me if these words are Armenian or not? becouse we use it in daily basess.....................janit ghurban bala jan and I think the word hajis is sweet no matter if its Armenian or not but i havent come across any arab who uses this word, mostly i agree with harut, khajenas, hajenal, hajis is just short version. inch kasess Arpa jan? style_images/master/snapback.png Thanx Ed,I was about to tell Gamavor that I don't like being labeled an Arab Armenian. And I dont' live in a fantasy world,so I KNOW that these mixed words will never be erased from our varied vocabularies! Edited August 30, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 They will. Trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 They will. Trust me. style_images/master/snapback.png They won't,TRUST ME..get back to me on this. Like I said I dont' live in a fantasy world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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