Shahumyan Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Righto,My aim in this thread is to bring out and hopefully show how Armenian SSR was even as a stalinist state, a more progressive state than Armenia today. My belief is that we should have helped overthrow the beurocrats in Stalinist USSR, and got it back to a workers democracy again. What am i on about? In essence, after the failure of the German revolution, Russia became isolated, and due to this the concentrationof power moved from the workers which had been given power by Lenins revolution, to the beurocrats (led by Stalin). However, if we compare even Stalinist Armenia with "Independent" Armenia, we will see that the Armenian people have lost so much with the counter-revolution led by the ANM. I would love to see what other peoples views are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 My friend FREEDOM dose not come easyNorth Korea is comunist Do you prefer to live in North Korea or ArmeniaBe honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeznig Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Righto,My aim in this thread is to bring out and hopefully show how Armenian SSR was even as a stalinist state, a more progressive state than Armenia today. My belief is that we should have helped overthrow the beurocrats in Stalinist USSR, and got it back to a workers democracy again. What am i on about? In essence, after the failure of the German revolution, Russia became isolated, and due to this the concentrationof power moved from the workers which had been given power by Lenins revolution, to the beurocrats (led by Stalin). However, if we compare even Stalinist Armenia with "Independent" Armenia, we will see that the Armenian people have lost so much with the counter-revolution led by the ANM. I would love to see what other peoples views are.This is an idea worth discussing. It certainly has some foundation. The overall social benefits of the Soviet era were unquestionably superior to what exists today - and there was no reason to elimiate these when the elite was removed. But market ideology had penetrated the soviet intelligentsia who then became slaves to to in a manner that no US or British politician or industrialist could ever be. And alas it was this intelligentsia and not the population at large that led the anti-soviet movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 This is an idea worth discussing. It certainly has some foundation. The overall social benefits of the Soviet era were unquestionably superior to what exists today - and there was no reason to elimiate these when the elite was removed. But market ideology had penetrated the soviet intelligentsia who then became slaves to to in a manner that no US or British politician or industrialist could ever be. And alas it was this intelligentsia and not the population at large that led the anti-soviet movement.No one lead the anti-soviet movement to a degree that it mattered in the big picture of things… Soviet Union collapsed because it was a non-sustainable system. Pretty much every other such system, except Cuba and North Korea (for the time being) has collapsed, and these two are also headed in that direction. One of the most amazing arguments in this tread is the separation of Lenin from Stalin. There has been only one difference between them - Lenin was a well-read murderer and imperialist, Stalin was more of a "street-smart" version of Lenin, and btw, the best student of Lenin. I also have a general question. What has happened lately for the Hye Forum to "enjoy" this "communist" (and btw pathological) "invasion?" Has some other Forum been shut down redirecting the traffic here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Culturally it was great.Right now Armenia has no culture and the society is in decay.Armenia before independence had language reforms, nobody has done so much for Armenia as Abovyan.Armenia had great scientists,sportsmen, artists etc.None of that now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Culturally it was great.Right now Armenia has no culture and the society is in decay.Armenia before independence had language reforms, nobody has done so much for Armenia as Abovyan.Armenia had great scientists,sportsmen, artists etc.None of that now It is give and take. Freedom verses censored Art, culture and inefficient decayed ideology. I take the freedom! Armenia is just beginning to stand on her feet. Give her some time and she will flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Culturally it was great.Right now Armenia has no culture and the society is in decay.Armenia before independence had language reforms, nobody has done so much for Armenia as Abovyan.Armenia had great scientists,sportsmen, artists etc.None of that now It is give and take. Freedom verses censored Art, culture and inefficient decayed ideology. I take the freedom! Armenia is just beginning to stand on her feet. Give her some time and she will flourish.I agree with you Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph parikian Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 (edited) http://www.flags.net/elements/gif_flags/WWIISOUN001.GIF The hammer remindes me with every Armenian bone that it crushedThe sickle every Armenian neck it severdThe red the blood of Armenians who disapeard during the comunist eraFor me its not diferent than this onehttp://www.flags.net/elements/gif_flags/TURK001.GIF Edited December 6, 2003 by joseph parikian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 excellent replies, thnx for input Now, first off, North Korea is clearly not communist, if it was it wouldnt have an unelected elite of scumbags ruling over it while the people suffer with poverty and starvation etc I think the people who are saying ARmenia had no freedom are using the most disgusting period about, ie the 30's. Lets not forget how people like Shiraz who were blatant nationalists were not punished (im not saying he shud have) for his works. I think the purges were mainly against those who stood for real socialism, such as Charents and the original bolsheviks who fought for the freedom of Armenian people Is there freedom of press in Armenia? No, see A1+Is there freedom of speech? No, see political murders and fighting at election Freedom is one of the most important values i fight for, and that is why i beleive that capitlaism does nothing but harm the Armenian and International workers freedom Freedom is not given to people, people in capitalism must pursure it and pressure the government for it, and the government simply throws down crumbs for us. WE WANT THE WHOLE TKHVATS (CAKE)! As for giving Armenia time for technology etc to improve, this technology will no longer belong to the people, but rather the motives for this technological advanc are undemocratically chosen by capitalists, and are soley for the sake of profit, not the good of mankind. MJ, i dunno what your worrying about, if your ideology of capitalism is correct, then surely you will prove me wrong? No matter how many reds come here, surely? Anyway, bring some more points up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 MJ, i dunno what your worrying about, if your ideology of capitalism is correct, then surely you will prove me wrong? No matter how many reds come here, surely? Anyway, bring some more points up ... surely not about you... I am just puzzled where people like you come from at this age and time. Just out fo curiousity would like to understand what gives rise to such pathology. Otherwise, no interest in "debating..." I will offer Dan for such purposes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 hmmm, people like me come from the realisation that this system is an oppresive one and must be changed for benefit of mankind who is Dan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeznig Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 I also have a general question. What has happened lately for the Hye Forum to "enjoy" this "communist" (and btw pathological) "invasion?" Has some other Forum been shut down redirecting the traffic here?Not as far as I am aware. I came across HyeForum via the the Armenian-language internet literary journal 'Bnagir'. It is perhaps worth noting that it is not communists alone who think Soviet Armenia recorded acheivements of great value. We should bear in mind when talking about communism/socialism that some of the best Armenian intellectuals and political thinkers were left wing - Mikael Nalpantian, Paramaz, Rouben Sevak, Aghasi Khanjian and of course Stepan Shahumyan to name but a few. In disucssing the destiny of the Armenian people one should not discount their contriubtion (I do not suggest that there is any intention of doing so, I merely express an opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 hmmm, people like me come from the realisation that this system is an oppresive one and must be changed for benefit of mankind who is Dan? And the previous system was not oppressive? Dan is someone in this forum who has a "debate" proposal for every problem on the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 The former system was corrupt and at certain stages oppressive, but if you total everything up, then the Soviet system was more progressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Culturally it was great.Right now Armenia has no culture and the society is in decay.Armenia before independence had language reforms, nobody has done so much for Armenia as Abovyan.Armenia had great scientists,sportsmen, artists etc.None of that now It is give and take. Freedom verses censored Art, culture and inefficient decayed ideology. I take the freedom! Armenia is just beginning to stand on her feet. Give her some time and she will flourish. I agree with you.I mean I hate commie pinko bastards but the current state of Armenia and some Armenians in Russia or California is God awful!!!Did it take a totalitarian commie regime to reawaken the Armenian glory that died out in the 1400's?It's seems like that after independence Armenia is right back in the Dark Ages that began in the 1400's as a result of savage invasions by barbarians, only now there aren't any barbarians but "Armenians".I hope things get better soon.Already there is a bill in parliament to change the name of Armenia and never remember that stupid foreign name "hayastan". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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