PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Armenians never had an empire because they are not united... And because of that...AG happend... Anyone disagreeing with me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Armenians never had an empire because they are not united... And because of that...AG happend... Anyone disagreeing with me? I agree with you Piggy. Those exact thoughts have been pondering me for some time; however it is sometimes hard to bring them up in the Armenian community due to the possibility of being ostracized. Armenia almost always lacked central rule, except for the recent years. There was a cluster of minor kingdoms through out Armenia. If you come to think of it the only time our country was in its glory was during the reign of Tigran the Great. That was because he invested into military strategy; his mistake was that he was eager to build a new capital without securing his borders after a new won territory that was still fresh with blood. That lack of unity that did not equip Armenia with a powerful army equal to the one of their powerful enemies. Now what if there was a strong emphasis on the literature and history which should have been strongly recorded instead of creating so many translations of the bible. What if our military was invincible? What if the preservation of our land was our number one concern? That lack of unity is what cornered us and deprived us of land. In my opinion the reason why Armenia is one of the few that did survive is because Armenians were always able to adapt and live peacefully with others. Wherever else, with whomever else except for each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Yup. I stated that, and as you can see, ARMO is after me. He is picking on me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 That lack of unity is what cornered us and deprived us of land. And the same thing is happening now too. It's so frightening to see the lack of faith Armenians have for the future of Armenia and Artsach. Well... I know that my comment here doesn't apply to most Armenians but it does apply to the majority of Armenians from Armenia who are now living in LA. A recent example is the Armeniafund. It's a shame how those Armenians behaved in those days and how they didn't wish to make any contributions for their country, because their intuition tells not to trust fellow Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 (edited) Anoushik, I don’t necessarily think I agree with your statement. Although you are correct in the idealistic retrospect, you also have to understand that the clash of completely opposite culture is what causes the confusion in the recent youth. It is hard to make a transition from a completely different environment to the next, thus to fit in and find their identity they get caught in the web of confusion and displacement. Therefore like many vulnerable individuals, these youngsters and older generation become influenced by the negative and the positive and fail to make a concise decision about where they want to stand. There is always a rotten bunch of apples in every culture, just like there are some very noble individuals. As difficult as it might seem believe me, Armenia is not entirely composed of the highest class of people either. Just look at the government and the people in power. I remember how many Rabiz young guys bought themselves out of the army during the Karabagh war, all for the purpose of squatting on the corners, spitting and throwing derogatory remarks towards women passing by. Sadly it was always the best kind of young men that were forced into the army, many of them considered to be Armenia’s talents, writers, artists, musicians, doctors etc. And those talents lives faded always quickly long before they can reach their stardom. So much for our culture huh? Edited December 4, 2003 by anileve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anileve Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Hey did this thread magically change its title? I sense the work of an illusive gnome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 anileve i almost sent you a pm asking you what happened to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 And the same thing is happening now too. It's so frightening to see the lack of faith Armenians have for the future of Armenia and Artsach. Well... I know that my comment here doesn't apply to most Armenians but it does apply to the majority of Armenians from Armenia who are now living in LA. A recent example is the Armeniafund. It's a shame how those Armenians behaved in those days and how they didn't wish to make any contributions for their country, because their intuition tells not to trust fellow Armenians. and haw did we get over 6m that day ?? only parskahays + berutsy and bolsahays gave the money ??? or was it only Americen-Armenians??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 But back to topic. Anileve I agree with you about the difference of culture and gererations but what is it that you don't agree about my statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 And that Unity is still broken today. Stanci do not like Anyone else but themselves, and they make fun of eachother as well! I am sick of being in a Race where the people just want to pick on eachother! They secretly despise eachother, curse eachother! ARGH! It can change but I do not know where to start it! The only thing I can think of is a common hatred... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 and haw did we get over 6m that day ?? only parskahays + berutsy and bolsahays gave the money ??? or was it only Americen-Armenians??? It was mostly arevmtahays.The Armenian culture here in LA is really "rotten". Armenians from Armenia. Every Armenian talkshow is directed towards inflicting hatred about the current government in Armenia. And sadly to say, it has worked. From our surroundings, my family was the only one who sent money to the fundraiser - everybody else just laughed at us for being so "idealistic" and "naive". Oh, for the record, we are Armenians from Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 My family, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 As am I. My family did not contribut money either, because they say the government "eats" it all. I do not understand, this is why Armenians are not united. And we should begin somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 some might argue that Armenian disunity at certain historical points helped them overcome the possibility of complete alienation, assimilation, anhilation.while one part of Armenia (Armenia, not as a state but region) would fall under certain outside pressure, another part would remain independent/autonomious, thus, being able to practice/grow with their culture.the same goes for internal conflicts. while an inter-dynastical conflicts would arise in one corner of Armenia, others would stay away from them, thus, avoiding pan-Armenian conflics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 yes, but like the saying goes... I would rather live a day as a lion, than a 100 years as a sheep. or something like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 That's our greatest tragedy. On one hand we are this group of unique, highly intelligent people (we are truly intelligent and gifted, I am not exagerating) and on the other hand we posses this need to constantly criticize each other (as I am doing right now) and find fault in everything that's Armenian. Maybe because we can see that with other cultures we are very compatible but since every Armenian is gifted in one way or another we can't stand that. Two weeks ago the Armenian National Chamber Orchestra gave a concert in Glendale. They were just excellent! Very professional. But despite that people had to criticize. Since so many musicians were there and realized that the Orchestra really was excellent musically they picked on the instruments, stating that had the Armenian government provided more funding towads the better care of the instruments the orchestra would have sounded so much better. There really wasn't any need for such comments. They sounded fine on international level. But this jealously is just eating us up. What should we do to stop it from destroying our culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 yes, but like the saying goes... I would rather live a day as a lion, than a 100 years as a sheep. or something like that... it besides being an indirect insult to Azat and America-Hye, it goes against what you are pursuing, unity and longlivity. Lions (not only as concrete animals, but as characters) are much more disunited then sheeps, their lives are shorter, and more exiting.now, it we apply that to history you should accept that our time has come; Armenians lived glorious lives (not) and are old lions now and would soon be terminated by attacking hyenas. (description by Hovhannes Shiraz in Hayots Danteyakan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 anushik, in fact, i believe we don't have enough [poractive] critisism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Before I returned to the Armenian community, I had accomplished much as an odar. I had risen to political heights at a tender age. After I returned to the Armenian fold, I was torn to shreds by the Armenian powerful. Perhaps my father had the right idea, change your name and become an Anglo-Saxon Protestant, turn you back on your heritage and accomplish things in your chosen field as an odar, never looking back. This was the decision of a man whose family had been so prominent before the Genocide, the pinnacle of Armenian prominence. He knew that if he achieved recognition for his work that his fellow Armenians would join to rip him apart like a pack of jackals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 And that Unity is still broken today. Stanci do not like Anyone else but themselves, and they make fun of eachother as well! I am sick of being in a Race where the people just want to pick on eachother! They secretly despise eachother, curse eachother! ARGH! It can change but I do not know where to start it! The only thing I can think of is a common hatred... You sound like me talking about black people. Most groups have this feeling about each other. I mean it's idealistic to have brotherhood amongst your race, but its usually tough to do. So many people, so many minds, so many dreams and desires, its truly hard to be unified across a race. Also from the outside looking in....I think armos appear somewhat unified, at least with groups. I know stancis, and beirutsis and barskayes have issues, but look at N Hollywood, Burbank, Pasadena and especially Glendale, there was some level of unity, brotherhood necessary in the creation of those armenian havens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 You sound like me talking about black people. Most groups have this feeling about each other. I mean it's idealistic to have brotherhood amongst your race, but its usually tough to do. So many people, so many minds, so many dreams and desires, its truly hard to be unified across a race. Also from the outside looking in....I think armos appear somewhat unified, at least with groups. I know stancis, and beirutsis and barskayes have issues, but look at N Hollywood, Burbank, Pasadena and especially Glendale, there was some level of unity, brotherhood necessary in the creation of those armenian havens.Sev Mard brings up a good point. From the outside, we appear to be extremely united. One of the comments I hear most from odars when they find out I am Armenian is that, oh, you guys are a really tight-knit group. I usually just smile and nod my head. Why is it that everyone thinks we are close-knit, but we think we are totally disbanded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Phantom,The sad part is it only takes “odar” to see and come to this conclusion. The good part is, we, Armenians had failed to change or prove otherwise to “odars” opinion regarding this. Ironic but thru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well appearences are just that aren't they. I mean I hang out with my hye enker from beirut and they make fun of barskahye accent(which i speak in) While my barskahye friends say beirutsis are all arrogant. So it was amused(in a non negative way) to see that ppl are ppl and everybody has issues. It's also silly how to me the points with with you nitpick don't seem as important to odars. Like I don't think barskahyes sound funny when they talk, or that they hold their sounds too long(they are are the borderline though ) but to other armos it's a big deal. Just interesting. I mean I wish unity could be attained for more groups across the globe b/c i think it would breed just a better world stage. It wasn't till I studied and really knew myself and my culture and was at peace with it, that I could get out and really bond with everybody else. Knowing yourself and being united with your ppl can form a great starting point to be inclusive and united with others, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Yes, sev-mard, you're right. But how to make it a reality for an entire people?... that's the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sev-mard Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Not to sound pessimistic but I don't think it's possible. It's like a unicorn, people talk about it but just dont' believe it exists. If ppl can create good will and unity in their immediate family, and thereby creating better indivuals from the start, them maybe it's possible. But wholesale change, or movements that affect a race, or any noticeable portion there of, it's hard to imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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