PiggyWiggy Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Lol there is a beer festival in Armenia all the time... Its the sport of the locals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khazar Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Shvernadze running was not because his people did it... Once again...the Caucusus have fallen to the Russians... Falling to the Russians? Quite the opposite!! Shevardnadze's fall was definitely influenced by some behind the scenes western (read: American) actions. On the eve of the elections, James Baker visited Tbilisi and told Shevardnadze he better make sure elections were democratic. The last time James Baker flew anywhere to do this was when he visited Milosevic right before he was thrown out. Saakashvili is MARKEDLY more pro-west than Shevardnadze could ever pretend to be. The US just scored one in the 'new great game'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggyWiggy Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Uh huh...right... So what makes you say such a thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Piggy - have you even read the thread? If you're not going to bring anything to the topic, please don't post for the sake of posting. And stay on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khazar Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Piggy, your posts are incoherent and inconsistent at best. Read the thread and at least pretend to have learned something new. We don't have to all agree. But if you don't agree with an argument, show us all why. That seems to be the accepted practice around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Falling to the Russians? Quite the opposite!! Shevardnadze's fall was definitely influenced by some behind the scenes western (read: American) actions. On the eve of the elections, James Baker visited Tbilisi and told Shevardnadze he better make sure elections were democratic. The last time James Baker flew anywhere to do this was when he visited Milosevic right before he was thrown out. Saakashvili is MARKEDLY more pro-west than Shevardnadze could ever pretend to be. The US just scored one in the 'new great game'. Khazar, you are quite correct in Georgia now being more pro-america as hard as it is to imagine (as well as pro-mafia now) However, i'd disagree with u on the "new great game" point, this is no new game, this game started since the time when Capitalism was maturing, in the late 19th century. This is the imperialism of the ruling class, nothing qualititive has changed since then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khazar Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 (edited) Shahumyan, Capitalism ain't new there, that's true! ... but this game between Russia and the west (US) is. Georgia was firmly and unquestionably Russia's sphere of influence up until a few years ago. Now it's not a given anymore... strange ain't it? Edited December 5, 2003 by Khazar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahumyan Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 i wouldnt say strange, is to be expected i guess. However, this counter productive behaviour is the only thing georgia can do with its system, by playing 2 imperialists off with another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 (edited) did anyone notice how the name armenia was msising from the map of caucasus and georgia, during a broadcasting from the current elections in Georgia? Everyone was there, turkey, azerbadjian, russia but not armenia! I had forgotten that they used to not mention armenia, for obvious political reasons, I had forgotten... <_< Edited January 24, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 We need leaders like Saakashvili - educated, charismatic and intelligent. COMMENTARY 'Georgia Stands On the Frontier Of Freedom' By MIKHAIL SAAKASHVILI President Bush late last year spoke about the importance of democracy in a dangerous world: "The progress of liberty is a powerful trend. Yet, we also know that liberty, if not defended, can be lost." Mere days after he uttered those words the Georgian nation rose up to defend our liberty and chart our own destiny. The Rose Revolution succeeded with great joy -- and without violence. It demonstrated that our roots and our identity are with the West. Far more than simply a product of Georgia's economic stagnation or the rampant corruption that strangled our future, our revolution was about a principle Americans understand very well: that government should be by the people and for the people. Our people demonstrated that, as in America, devotion to commitment to the values of liberal democracy reflects the overwhelming will of the people, not just the desires of a small elite. In my first visit to the United States as president of Georgia, I am proud to express the appreciation of my citizens to President Bush and the American people for the support provided by the U.S. in our recent democratic upheaval. Georgians have now regained our freedom, defended our liberty, and we have fully embraced democracy, economic liberalization, and the rule of law. The past three months witnessed hope triumph over despair and empowerment replace disenfranchisement. But we know the most difficult steps remain in front of us. Our national goals of full integration into Euro-Atlantic institutions will require years of diligent effort, consistent reforms, and patient progress. While we welcome and desire help from our friends abroad, we realize that success will depend on Georgian decisions and Georgian deeds. We are combating the pervasive corruption that paralyzed our state and demoralized our people. We face difficult challenges in alleviating poverty, consolidating democracy, increasing economic activity, restructuring our government, reforming our military, and attracting foreign investment. We are heartened by offers of support from NATO and European Union members, and we are steadfast in our aspiration to become full members of these organizations at the earliest possible opportunity. We have to re-establish Georgia's territorial integrity through peaceful resolution of conflict in Abkhazia. We would welcome an increased international and especially a U.S. role in the peace process. Guaranteeing Georgia's sovereignty will also require the elimination of abandoned Soviet arms stockpiles and, most importantly, the guarantee that the only foreign military forces in Georgia are those that have been invited. That is not the case today, with more than 3,000 Russian troops on sovereign Georgian soil. Too often in the past, Russia increased instability in our region, and its "peacekeeping" was rather a "piece-keeping" -- trying to retain pieces of the former empire. After recent meetings with President Putin in Moscow, however, I am increasingly hopeful that Russia's current leadership recognizes that Georgian territorial integrity benefits the entire region. Indeed, if Russia is willing to adopt a modern, 21st-century approach to its relations with Georgia -- one grounded in respect for the sovereignty and dignity of the Georgian people -- I am sure we can enhance our cooperation and advance our mutual interests. In Georgia, we are ready for new dialogue; our goal is responsible and friendly relations with all of our neighbors. Russia is a very important trade partner for Georgia. We share historic and cultural and above all human ties and we need to normalize our political relations. We enjoy good relations with Armenia and Azerbaijan. Our powerful NATO neighbor, Turkey, has helped us at critical moments. Together with Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria, we seek the creation of a secure and stable Black Sea regional security system that furthers our integration with the West. Full integration with the West will aid Georgia, and it will contribute to the West's security and prosperity as well. By avoiding violence and disintegration during a difficult political transition, Georgia stands as a demonstration that real stability comes only with democracy. Georgia's geographic location and our strategic orientation enables us to work with the West in addressing 21st-century threats. We are on the front lines in combating global terrorism, trafficking of humans and illicit drugs, and proliferation of weapons -- both conventional and unconventional. We have already begun efforts to provide new energy resources to Europe and beyond with the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil and the South Caucasus gas pipelines. Opportunities will expand throughout our region as frozen conflicts are resolved and economic reforms take hold. Georgia and the United States enjoy a strong partnership rooted in shared values and common interests. We appreciate the years of generous financial assistance provided by the United States. Its investment helped create the human and political infrastructure required for free and fair elections. Georgians were gratified to hear U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, at my recent inauguration, reiterate President Bush's commitment to continue support for our reform and integration. At my inauguration, I dedicated my presidency to the Georgian people: to all those who have suffered and even given their lives to preserve our freedom; to the children of Georgia whose future we must rebuild; and to the re-establishment of total territorial integrity throughout Georgia. In so doing, I am committed to leading Georgia back into the Euro-Atlantic fold -- to stand once again with our Western partners to build a better future. Georgia is located on the frontier of freedom: at the crossroads of Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Our past identity and our future destiny lie in the values and aspirations that unite the Euro-Atlantic community. Today, we are on our way home but we know our journey has only begun. The Georgian people are determined to complete this journey. I am confident that, working with our friends, we will reach our destination. Mr. Saakashvili is president of Georgia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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