Persians Are Firmly Behind Armenians!

[Armat]

Edited September 29, 2003 by Armat

[gamavor]

Granted!

It will cost us roughly $130 per day (each) for a modest accommodation. Azat don’t worry about the girls. We will be in need of effective women repellant like you.

[Armat]

We will be in need of effective women repellant like you.

[Sip]

Azat, the beauty of a skit trip is that the entire body is covered with several layers of thick clothing ... so all you need is a couple of winks and you're in the game. The "hemp clothing" will not be a deterrant in Aspen

 

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As a slight diversion from the real ski trip topic ... I find it fascinating that a simple thread about Persian/Armenian relations can turn into Android/Armenoid and NordicTrak excersise equipment discussions and the origin of the nose.

 

Does EVERYTHING depend on origins? Let is be already. Origins are irrelevant ... of course I'm not talking about just Persian / Armenian relations, nor just this thread.

 

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Edit: but I certainly didn't mean to imply that origins aren't "interesting". They can be quite interesting. I just think they are irrelevant to most topics.

[Teutonic Knight]

Azat, the beauty of a skit trip is that the entire body is covered with several layers of thick clothing ... so all you need is a couple of winks and you're in the game. The "hemp clothing" will not be a deterrant in Aspen

 

---

 

As a slight diversion from the real ski trip topic ... I find it fascinating that a simple thread about Persian/Armenian relations can turn into Android/Armenoid and NordicTrak excersise equipment discussions and the origin of the nose.

 

Does EVERYTHING depend on origins? Let is be already. Origins are irrelevant ... of course I'm not talking about just Persian / Armenian relations, nor just this thread.

 

---

Edit: but I certainly didn't mean to imply that origins aren't "interesting". They can be quite interesting. I just think they are irrelevant to most topics.

Sip, yes and no.

The thing is the enemies of your people use all that against you with all sorts of fabrications. If an Uighur or a Russian fascist says Armenians=Armenoid and those that are not are simply mixed with Slavs/Greeks and no Armenian argues against that fabrication than indeed all Armenians=Armenoid.

If you don't care about that you don't care about your kin.

Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese etc. all face the same attacks on a daily basis. The difference is they all stand up and defend themselves, Armenians don't.

[MJ]

And would you be kind enough to enlighten us as who the "enemies of our people" are?

[Teutonic Knight]

And would you be kind enough to enlighten us as who the "enemies of our people" are?

Not particularly.

[Jewish Friend]

Furthermore, what originally piqued my interest into the origins of the Armenians, re: any Jewish antecedents, was my reading of the early disputes between the Jewish Christians and the traditional Jews. I postulated that if a large number of Jewish Chrisitans had assimilated into the Armenians, it would explain the underlying sub-conscious problems between these two peoples today. When I read that early Armenian Churches were found with the Star of David inscribed in the Church walls, this intensifid my interest. When Yepikopsyan found that Kohanim genes in Armenians to be one of the highest percentages found in non-Jews, this intensified my interest even further. There is something in the Armenian / Jewish rivalry which is similar to that of siblings.

I'm not the most intellectual guy on the block, but when I was in the U.S. Army back in the day, my Armenian-American colonel said to me..Roses are red, Violets are bluish, if not for Jesus, We'd all be Jewish". I trust the colonel at his word. At ease fellows! LOL Jewish Friend

[America-Hye]

There is an Armenian song that goes "Soodeh, soodeh, amen pahn soodeh, Ays arshakin mech amen pahn soodeh." (The world is all illusion). The Romans scapegoated the Jews vis-vis Jesus, a Jewish patriot. They needed to deflect the blame.

 

In the 1950s my late father was under much strain in his top-secret job. Our family physician proscribed that he begin smoking cigarettes to calm his nerves. There are some Armenians and Jews, in both peoples, for whom this discussion makes them VERY uncomfortable. Politics and traditional beliefs are more critical than seeking the truth.

[Arpa]

There is an Armenian song that goes "Soodeh, soodeh, amen

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In the 1950s my late father was under much strain in his top-secret job. Our family physician proscribed that he begin smoking cigarettes to calm his nerves. There are some

Yeah, Yeah!

We know. Your father was double agent for the Mossad and the Savak(Iranian S), but what caused his "much strain" was- he was torn between whether to add the MIT (Turkish SS) and the CiIA to the list of his clients.

He was probably under "much strain" because his main job was outing the Armenian "pinkos" and "commies" for the CIA.

DUHHH!!!

[Sip]

I just wanted to officially point out how much I dislike the title of this thread.

[Arpa]

I just wanted to officially point out how much I dislike the title of this thread.

Hear! Hear!

Yeah Si, agreed.

The thread was opened by our Prsian Friend from the Iranian Savak and now it is picked up by our friend from the Mossad, iterspersed with inanities by our Amucatsi friend.

It may be time to lock this thread so we can talk about things Armenia like culture, music, literature art and REAL HISTORY, not mythology according to these "friend"s.

[Persian Friend]

Hello Guys:

 

I am back.

 

I just wanted to tell you not to be distracted by the comments made by our Jewish friend. I can understand that they are traversing a difficult period right now.

 

When I was studying at university all the Armenians, Iranians, Lebanese, Italians and Greeks used to study together. I found it very interesting how well we got along. Somehow there was a chemistry between all of us. Maybe we are just warm-blooded and more easy-going. I cannot pin it down exactly what was the reason why it clicked so well between us. Besides studying we used to play soccer with each other and enjoyed going out together mostly to restaurants and strip joints.

 

The Jewish guys always kept a distance mostly studying alone amongst themselves. Some even seemed to look down at the way we studied together. Maybe they questioned our work ethic.

 

Well that was my observation and experience. You may have had a different experience.

 

I hope that the long-standing friendship between Armenians and Persians is not turned into a political matter. This is something beyond and above politics. I also hope that the Jews do not construe this friendship as threatening to them or that it doesn't simply make them jealous. Afterall one's friendship with one group is not necessarily at the cost of another one.

 

As far as the relationship between Persians and Jews is concerned my best professors at university were Jewish. They gave me easy marks on the exams or so I noticed. I could only ascribe that to the fact that since they owe their existence to our ancient Persian Achaemenid king Cyrus the Great they feel like helping out a bit.

 

All the best.

Persian friend.

[Jewish Friend]

My Persian friend. My good buddy is a Persian Muslim married to an American Jew. His family got stripped of everything after 1979 and they came over here. Before that..Israel and Iran were very close traders and had great relations. Persian Jews are the finest looking chicks in Israel. I'm sure the day will be soon when Iran will be free of the dictators and fundamentalists..and go about partying and looking good like the days of old. Maybe the good ole son of the shah will be elected..who knows.{Just kidding..don't hit me!}

 

 

Also..I don't know where you are from..but in the U.S. Jews don't study hard anymore..they can't keep up with the Indians, Chinese, and Koreans. Also..they all have doctor or lawyer daddies and mommies so there is no compelling need to succeed. One more generation in the U.S. and we will have run our course .Jewish Friend

[Persian Friend]

Hi Jewish Friend:

 

The Persian Jews are fine. They love everything Persian particularly the food and the music and also the culture. Ther Persian Jewesses are also very nice and they don't mind to marry a Persian guy since according to your religion children take on their mother's religion automatically.

 

But somehow all my Persian Jewish friends got into either medicine, law or dentistry and I was in engineering. They all hated engineering.

 

I know the bond between us goes back a long time: Cyrus the Great, the three Magi lead by Caspar, Ester and Mordecai and many others.

 

Actually it may come as a shock to our Armenian friends that Christianity was conceived and created by the only two monotheistic people of that time the Aryan Persian monotheists (Zoroastrianism) and the Semitic Israeli monotheists (Judaism). Thus it is believed by many that Christianity was brought about by combining elements of Judaism and Zoroastrianism. The aim of the new religion was simple: to infect the Romans by a new religion and thus to weaken them by preoccupying them with the spread of this new religion. The Romans were bugging the Jews too much since they had occupied Judea and the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire were also rivals and locked in frequent conflicts.

The Holy Trinity actually refers to the three Persian Magi Caspar, Balthazar and Melchior who came to Jerusalem and took baby Jesus under their wings and protected and promoted him.

Any input on this issue by our Armenian Friends?

 

But hey we should not take up too much space on the Armenian forum.

 

What I always wondered about is that how come there are no Armenians and Jews who have intermarried. I mean I know about so many Persians and Armenians married together and as you mentioned there are also many Jews and Persians intermarried but there are no Armenians and Jews that I know off.

Anybody feel like contributing on this issue?

 

Take care.

[MJ]

PF,

 

I hardly would like to contribute on the subject of Persian Jewesses.

 

I can only tell you that I experience no shock at learning that Zoroastrianism and Judaism precede Christianity on the capacity of monotheistic religions – that is widely recognized and is an undisputable fact.

 

With all due respect, I have to claim that your argument about Holly Trinity is very superficial (if I would have not wanted to be careful, I just would have said it is BS.)

 

Also, the intermarriages between Armenians and Jews have been and remain quite common - common not in the statistically sense of the word but there is enough evidence to claim that here are no obstacles to such intermarriages.

Edited October 26, 2003 by MJ

[Jewish Friend]

Interesting discussion. I am fourth generation American. My relatives came from whaht wa Russian Poland in the late 1800s. There was a time intermarriage was unheard of, like in most minorities. Today, the intermarriage rate is approaching 60%. for American Jews...so we are married to everyone but ourselves..lol. Testimony to the freedom of America..and perhaps.the lack of desire for organized religion {which is not necessarily the lack of God} in one's life. In fact..you more likely will see an Armenian marry Jewish than Roman Catholic or Protestant.. . the networking and closenitness culturally is almost identical. I have gone to Armenian gatheirgs as I mention in other posts and feel more at home and more warmth than with any other group inclding my own{some of us can be very annoying!lol} That is why I post here.

 

As for Persian food.delicious..except for New York deli..Jewish food stinks. ..so you are right there!

My roomate in college many moons ago was an engineer and Jewish, but you are right..most Jews who turn professional went into the other fields in my day[the sixties]..but now as I said many are turning to other areas and giving new folks a chance to knock themselves out! My experinece has been that many engineers end up gong back to school to become doctors...especially dentists for some reason. Maybe the mechanical thing there. Good to speak to all my bros. Jewish Friend

 

Personally I think to discuss religious details is futile as in the final analysis.who know? I believe God or whatever wants us all to get along.

[America-Hye]

Arpa,

 

I can not believe your inane comment. My father was an ENGINEERING specialist who invented a number of advances in radar technology which was used extensively by US forces in World War II. Mossad?? Savak?? Give me a break!! Unfortunately, he signed off all rights to any inventions to his employer, one of America's largest corporations.

 

Arpa, are you taking your anti-psychosis medicine????????????

[America-Hye]

Hey Persian Friend,

 

Of the 9 first cousins on my mother's side, three married Jews. Many famous Armenians have married Jews. Saroyan married only twice, both times to the SAME Jew. Arlene Francis (Kazanjian) married the second time round to a Jew and had her only child from him. Kasparov's father was a Jew named Weinstein. He later took a variation of his mother maiden name, Kasparian. Mrs. Totah active in the Armenian Assembly is married to a Jew. There is an obituary in the Armenian Reporter this week of a famous Jewish actor who was married to an Armenian. The article mentions their three children. There are numerous other Armenian/Jewish marriages. What kind of circles do you travel in, that you know of no such marriages???

[DominO123]

The Holy Trinity actually refers to the three Persian Magi Caspar, Balthazar and Melchior who came to Jerusalem and took baby Jesus under their wings and protected and promoted him.

This is very unlikely, the trinity is believed having been inspired by the Hindu trinity Sat-Tat-Aum, The Being, The immanence and the words of the Holy spirit.

 

By comparaison, in Christianity, there is God, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

The Being in the Hindu Trinity is the Brahma, the God of knowledge and the creator.

 

The imminence, is Vishnu, the God of love, the preserver. In Christianity, Jesus is considered to be love.

 

There is no dought in my mind, that this trinity concept in Christianity comes directly from the Hindu trinity concept.

[Persian Friend]

Thanks America-Hye for the information.

 

Unfortunately I did not have this information but appreciate tremendously that you enlightened me. That is why I always ask in my posts and also insist that some of my statements are not absolute.

 

As any other person my experiences are limited. We cannot know everything, everywhere all the time. Our experiences and education are limited by time, space and content.

 

Thanks again.

Persian Friend.

[America-Hye]

Persian Friend,

 

Glad to provide this information. If you find any of the information I provide to be inaccurate please post it here. Did you know that the first President of the current Republic of Armenia, Levon Ter-Petrosyan, is also married to a Jew.

[Persian Friend]

Hi America-Hye:

 

Thanks for the information.

 

Are those Jews such as the wife of Levon Petrosyan originally from Armenia? I mean do you have Armenian Jews like we have Persian Jews? If yes since when have they been living in Armenia? For instance the Jewish community in Iran is amongst the oldest in the world. Tthe Jews were so impressed by the benevolence of Cyrus the Great that some of them decided to stay in Persia and even have some religious monuments such as the Tomb of Esther besides numerous synagogues.

 

Is it possible to be Armenian and not Christian?

There are many Iranians in the US notably in LA that have converted to Christianity. Do you know of any Armenians who may have converted to Judaism or Islam based on their independent study?

 

I would like to know whether there exists a viable Armenian comunity in Israel like the ones in Lebanon, France, US and Iran. If yes how large is that community?

 

I would also like to know the extent of trade between Israel and Armenia if it is okay to disclose.

 

And just one last comment. I have Armenian friends from Lebanon whom I have seen sometimes complain about the Maronites of Lebanon that they discriminate against Armenians although the Maronites are themselves Christians. Could you tell me the nature, extent and intensity of those discriminations.

 

I am sorry if the list got too long. Appreciate your time and effort.

 

Thanks again.

Persian Friend.

[MJ]

I would also like to know the extent of trade between Israel and Armenia if it is okay to disclose.

Israel is Armenia's #1 import partner as far as the $-amount is concerned (Belgium being the #1 export partner.)

 

The answer to the rest of your questions is more or less "yes."

[Sasun]

This is very unlikely, the trinity is believed having been inspired by the Hindu trinity Sat-Tat-Aum, The Being, The immanence and the words of the Holy spirit.

 

By comparaison, in Christianity, there is God, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

The Being in the Hindu Trinity is the Brahma, the God of knowledge and the creator.

 

The imminence, is Vishnu, the God of love, the preserver. In Christianity, Jesus is considered to be love.

 

There is no dought in my mind, that this trinity concept in Christianity comes directly from the Hindu trinity concept.

Domino, I think this is also unlikely. I think the Hindu trinity that you are talking about is more like Brahma-the creator, Vishnu-the preserver, Shiva-the destroyer(transformer). In essense, Brahma and Shiva are believed to be aspects of the Absolute, which is Vishnu. For example, some say Brahma is Vishnu's wisdom while Shiva is Vishnu's self esteem. Rama and Krishna are believed to be incarnation's of Vishnu. We could draw parallels and see simiralities (Son=incarnation, Father=God the absolute), but I don't see the Holy Spirit per se present in Hinduism, so my guess is there is no link or influence. Actually there are so many other deities in Hinduism that it can hardly be the trinity that Christianity has, not to mention the significant differences in philosophy.

 

If there are similarities between religions it doesn't necessarily mean one has copied from another. It is more like discovering the same truth, like in science different scientists have independently discovered the same thing.

Edited October 27, 2003 by Sasun