My Name Is Green

[Stormig]

Message: 1

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:05:15 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Mahmut Esat"

Subject: A NEW TURKISH RENAISSANCE

 

A NEW TURKISH RENAISSANCE RECENT TURKISH SUCCESSES TURN ARMENIANS GREEN

WITH ENVY

 

 

 

(An Editorial)

 

Mahmut Esat Ozan

Chairman-Editorial Board

The Turkish Forum

 

 

THE CAUSES FOR THE ARMENIANS' DEEP GLOOM

 

 

According to all historians the beginning of Modern Age coincides with

the Conquest of 'Constantinople'(Istanbul) by the Ottoman Turks. They

are also chronicled to have caused the Renaissance in Europe. However,

there is a new renaissance in the making on that continent. This time it

is caused again by the Turks, no less. Most everyone in Europe agrees

with this new development and are tacitly happy about it. Except one

group. The Armenians.

 

 

 

The Diaspora Armenians, especially the ones in Europe and particularly

those who call France their home, are very much upset because they

cannot stand the humiliation of witnessing the many successes of the

Turks. Seeing that not a single Armenian has been awarded any prize, on any

subject at any time in recent or distant memory, they are trying to

compensate their anger by attacking the Turks employing the most repugnant

words they could use. On the other hand, the Turks quietly ignore their

arrogant and highly boisterous neighbors, the Armenians.

 

 

 

The fact that Turks are being awarded prestigious titles in a variety

of fields such as: culture, popular arts, movies, music, sports and

even in literature does not go too well with them and it drives them

batty. Being boastful about their personal achievements has never been a

part of Turkish character. However, hearing and reading with disgust,

about hundreds and hundreds of Armenian internet sites all over Europe

and mostly in France, spewing pure hatred toward the Turks who have

been promoted in the European news Media, it behooves us to brag a bit,

just to spite these double-dealing, Janus-faced hypocrites.

 

 

 

ARMENIANS ARE LEARNING THEY'RE NO MATCH FOR THE TURKS

 

 

 

It all started with the World Cup football (soccer) championship which

awarded the Turkish National football team a most prestigious third

place in the International arena. Now even the German First League

football clubs are paying big bucks to the Turkish athletes such as Yildiray

and others who excelled during the World Cup games. Other coveted

prizes won by the Turks put them again in a most favorable position. Turkish

young lady, a long distance runner, Ayhan won the first prize and a

gold medal among a large group of competitors. This incredible event was

followed by two other European championships snatched by Turkish

athletes. One was in boxing and the other in the Far Eastern sport of

Korean Tae- Kwon-Do.

 

 

 

Not too long after these impressive victories, came the news that the

Turkish wrestler Serefoglu had won his 6th European championship

title. Again the Armenians were furious that they had not produced a single

person among the half a million of their populace in France alone. They

were left only with a balding, aging singer by the name of Charles

Aznavour, who no longer commanded his once-popular voice and also lost all

his lifelong savings in an imprudent investment in the risky business

of filmmaking. The turcophobic adventures of the Canadian-Armenian

'film director' Atom Egoyan's money-loser called "ARARAT" became a big

flop. Its racist and jingoistic plot replete with savagery and pure hatred

for the Turks was ignored by all but a handful of filmgoers

everywhere. The film t was taken off the market because it was playing to almost

empty theaters in France, in the USA and everywhere else. To the big

disappointment of the Armenians, and to the chagrin of all the operators

of the filthy, shameless Armenian Internet sites this so-called film

"ARARAT" was not even allowed to compete at the 2002 Cannes Film

Festival. Egoyan, Aznavour and the large U.S. distributor, Miramax, a

subsidiary of the mighty Disney Corporation, will have to figure out some

way in which they could recoup their enormous losses.

 

 

 

Right after this disaster, the Armenians learned to their distress and

dismay, that a Turkish-made film called "DISTANT" was awarded the

coveted Palme d'Or Prize at Cannes Film Festival in 2003. This was too

much for the Armenians to bear! It was enough to make them lose their

mind. They began to ask all kinds of questions to which there was no

satisfactory answer. "What was going on in this crazy world ?" "What,in

the name of heavens,had occurred to rationality ?" Better yet, "why was

all this happening to them?" " How could these 'lowly' creatures, the

Turks, against whom they were working day and night to keep them out

of the European Union, were becoming so popular recently?" "Haven't

they been sending negative 'desinformatsiya" against these Turks to all

legislatures of the European Union countries ?" "Haven't they sent a

substantial amount of hostile material to besmirch the good name of

the Turks?" "How could these people excel this way in all these popular

events and receive those world-class awards?" "So what had gone

wrong?"

 

 

 

Returning to what else makes the Armenians so unhappy we also find that

recently their claims were reputedly denied in Switzerland, Sweden and

of all places in England.. While in the USA, the all-powerful Armenian

lobby is busy to try to pass a likewise resolution,the Armenians

everywhere were slapped in the face with other Turkish successes. In

France, Germany, Holland,Switzerland and Austria respectively,Turkish

heritage candidates were winning seats in various municipal and/or

governmental races.Especially the Armenians had lost in a controversial law suit

they had brought against the Turks concerning the denial of the alleged

genocide. This was a reversal verdict by the Swiss Supreme Court in

Bern..

 

 

 

ISN'T THIS A TURKISH RENAISSANCE?

 

 

 

The world-renown Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk winning the literary

award from the Impact-Dublin 2003 in Ireland for his new book "My Name Is

Red "didn't go any better with the Armenians, either. But when a most

beautiful Turkish young lady, Azra Akin became 'Miss World Armenians'

own world came tumbling down. And collapsed unceremoniously over their

heads. Because, no Armenian is known to have won any beauty contest

anywhere in history. They must have hoped that this would be the end, of

all the successes the Turks were going to have in the future. But once

more they were rudely awakened by another blow on the noggin. There

was another Turkish victory! Turks had won again. This time it was the

most fancied and desired prize of all. The Eurovision Song Contest.The

young Turkish singer , Sertap Erener 's victory was hers alone to keep.

She had won it after a fiercely-fought competitive bout with Belgian

and Russian contestants getting the remaining prizes.

 

 

 

Erener who gave a migraine headache to the Armenian Site

owner-operators is one of Turkiye's most popular young singers, with album sales

topping the figure of four million. After the biggest indoor concert in

Latvia's history, one Riga newspaper called her the "Turkish Rose with

a crystal voice." Even the Greek Cypriots and mainland Greeks gave

their votes to this talented Turkish singer. What was the reaction of the

French Armenians viewing the contest? They were foaming at the mouth,

or enraged in one word. They turned their wrathful fury against

anything or anyone with a Turkish background .

 

 

 

Their discordant anti-Turkish voices began to be heard everywhere.One

Armenian said with great assurance:"Those bastard Turks bought all the

contest judges." Another one added: Hey! Listen ! you jerks! Your

Turkish race knows only one thing "to colonize the world,and 'screw' everyone

in the process! There were many other deprecatory voices, letters but

unfortunately we cannot print them here or anywhere else, for that

matter.Those masterpieces of literature should remain where they belong in

the bosom of their pseudo-clever writers and readers, perhaps this is

how they get their "jollies.".

 

 

 

Their ugly epithets remind us of their equally guttural language. By

that we mean that it is really a blessing that no Armenian did enter,

nor win the Eurovision contest, because had they done so and won the

prize the mythical winner would have been called the "Armenian Vart".

That's how you say rose in Armenian mother tongue. Oh , well! As

Shakespeare would have said in the days of yore: "A vart by any other name

is still a vart.!"

 

 

 

meozan@turkishforum.com

[THOTH]

I'm really surprised that this post has elicited no comment. I think it is a real hoot. Where are these Armenians that this Turks speaks of - outraged out in the streets etc? I haven't ssen or heard any Armenian even so much as mention most of these events and such. And in fact - regarding the world cup and other related Turkish soccer successes - many Armenians (including myself were very public in their congratulations to their Turkish friends and aquantences. As for the rest of it - some fantasy fixation this guy has...and i though it was supposed to be Armenians that had this obsession with Turks/Turkey...get a life dude - what an immmagination...LOL - thanks Stormy - a very enjoyable post. Perhaps they establish a Weems institute/foundation over there and this guy is the first graduate...

[gamavor]

he, he, he, hee turks and renaissanc e, he, he, he, he

 

nomadic asiatic barbarians

 

I wish someone posts this in the International media!

[McCarthyiologist]

Don't worry Mahmut Esat, I shall answer you soon.

[McCarthyiologist]

Mahmut Esat Ozan

Chairman-Editorial Board

The Turkish Forum

 

 

THE CAUSES FOR THE ARMENIANS' DEEP GLOOM

 

 

According to all historians the beginning of Modern Age coincides with

the Conquest of 'Constantinople'(Istanbul) by the Ottoman Turks. They

are also chronicled to have caused the Renaissance in Europe. However,

there is a new renaissance in the making on that continent. This time it

is caused again by the Turks, no less. Most everyone in Europe agrees

with this new development and are tacitly happy about it. Except one

group. The Armenians.

 

 

So the fact that the beginning of the Modern Age coincides with the Conquest of Constantinople, makes the Turks reponsable of it ? And who "chronicled" that the Turks caused Renaissance in European, its the first time I hear such a thing. Most everyone in Europe agree ? Whom ? Which continent new renaissance caused by the Turks ? And is it not pass time that the Turks have their Renaissance, while the rest of the world are in post modern era ?

 

 

The Diaspora Armenians, especially the ones in Europe and particularly

those who call France their home, are very much upset because they

cannot stand the humiliation of witnessing the many successes of the

Turks. Seeing that not a single Armenian has been awarded any prize, on any

subject at any time in recent or distant memory, they are trying to

compensate their anger by attacking the Turks employing the most repugnant

words they could use. On the other hand, the Turks quietly ignore their

arrogant and highly boisterous neighbors, the Armenians.

 

We are upset ? Of what ? What do I care that the Turks win a prize or not ? Do you think that I am as much interested in Turkish achievements that you sound interested in Armenian ones ?

 

 

"Seeing that not a single Armenian has been awarded any prize, on any

subject at any time in recent or distant memory, they are trying to

compensate their anger by attacking the Turks employing the most repugnant

words they could use."

 

When was the last time that a Turk became the world Chess champion, when was the last time that a Turk was the master Engeneer of one of the best Combat fighting airplane series ? Which Turk is a world known classical composer ? So no Armenians have ever won any prize ? Self-decieving old fart, you are as credible as the "organisation" that published your article and that you are associated with.

 

 

The fact that Turks are being awarded prestigious titles in a variety

of fields such as: culture, popular arts, movies, music, sports and

even in literature does not go too well with them and it drives them

batty. Being boastful about their personal achievements has never been a

part of Turkish character. However, hearing and reading with disgust,

about hundreds and hundreds of Armenian internet sites all over Europe

and mostly in France, spewing pure hatred toward the Turks who have

been promoted in the European news Media, it behooves us to brag a bit,

just to spite these double-dealing, Janus-faced hypocrites.

 

"Being boastful about their personal achievements has never been a part of Turkish character." LOL ! Is your article not about that ? Being "boastful" of Turkish achievements ? Is that the the Turkish caracter you are talking about ? From hundreds and hundreds of internet sites ? Which site put as their internet adresses "armenianterror" etc... and this comming from Turkish organisations, find any Armenian web-site from any Armenian associations or organisations, with adresses such as "Turkishterror" "Turkishreality" I am afraid that facts are speeking against your claims.

 

 

 

ARMENIANS ARE LEARNING THEY'RE NO MATCH FOR THE TURKS

 

Whats a racist statment, I guess another example of what you consider as the Turkish "caracter"

 

 

It all started with the World Cup football (soccer) championship which

awarded the Turkish National football team a most prestigious third

place in the International arena. Now even the German First League

football clubs are paying big bucks to the Turkish athletes such as Yildiray

and others who excelled during the World Cup games. Other coveted

prizes won by the Turks put them again in a most favorable position. Turkish

young lady, a long distance runner, Ayhan won the first prize and a

gold medal among a large group of competitors. This incredible event was

followed by two other European championships snatched by Turkish

athletes. One was in boxing and the other in the Far Eastern sport of

Korean Tae- Kwon-Do.

 

There is more than 65 million Turks, and I am not including those outside of Turkey, in the entire world there is 7.5 million Armenians, present Armenias population declined to about 2 million, so only by numbers, it would take for each Armenian medalist 33 Turks, in order to be statistically equivalent. Can you claim such ? It took Turkey so many years to have few medalists, and still, if you consider the population of Turkey, that is equivalent to UK, Turkey fall far away those other countries... Is that what you consider as a renaissance ? Perhaps, are you talking about the Turkish renaissance finally arriving, while the rest of the European countries live in Post-modernum ?

 

Not too long after these impressive victories, came the news that the

Turkish wrestler Serefoglu had won his 6th European championship

title. Again the Armenians were furious that they had not produced a single

person among the half a million of their populace in France alone. They

were left only with a balding, aging singer by the name of Charles

Aznavour, who no longer commanded his once-popular voice and also lost all

his lifelong savings in an imprudent investment in the risky business

of filmmaking. The turcophobic adventures of the Canadian-Armenian

'film director' Atom Egoyan's money-loser called "ARARAT" became a big

flop. Its racist and jingoistic plot replete with savagery and pure hatred

for the Turks was ignored by all but a handful of filmgoers

everywhere. The film t was taken off the market because it was playing to almost

empty theaters in France, in the USA and everywhere else. To the big

disappointment of the Armenians, and to the chagrin of all the operators

of the filthy, shameless Armenian Internet sites this so-called film

"ARARAT" was not even allowed to compete at the 2002 Cannes Film

Festival. Egoyan, Aznavour and the large U.S. distributor, Miramax, a

subsidiary of the mighty Disney Corporation, will have to figure out some

way in which they could recoup their enormous losses.

 

 

Is it in this so "pure" Turkish caracter to lie like you just have lied above, lets ignore your assassination of the caracter of Aznavour. Lets stick to the facts, and your lies(as usual, afterall what is found as truthful in turkishforum, is just a question of a margin of error). First of all liar, Aznavour didn't lost his life savings, even idiots would know that it is the production compagny that pays the production of a film, it has been financed by Serendipity Point Films, Egofilm and Film Canada.

 

"Its racist and jingoistic plot replete with savagery and pure hatred

for the Turks was ignored by all but a handful of filmgoers

everywhere."

 

I guess this is why one of the worst critics about the film was that the film should have been what was the film waiting the film, what you consider as "savagery and pure hatred for the Turks." And still not bad at all, for a such a flop to win the best Picture produced in Canada in 2002, being the movie having won the most prizes.

 

"this so-called film "ARARAT" was not even allowed to compete at the 2002 Cannes Film Festival. "

 

You should be worry for your Anus, such big farts could be dangerious for your health, the film was supposed to compete, it was redrawed from the competition list by Egoyan himself, not because it was not allowed.

 

As for why the theatres were empty, it was because they wanted to see a movie like the one waiting the movie, so in "somme" the savagery and "pure hatered."

 

 

Right after this disaster, the Armenians learned to their distress and

dismay, that a Turkish-made film called "DISTANT" was awarded the

coveted Palme d'Or Prize at Cannes Film Festival in 2003. This was too

much for the Armenians to bear! It was enough to make them lose their

mind. They began to ask all kinds of questions to which there was no

satisfactory answer. "What was going on in this crazy world ?" "What,in

the name of heavens,had occurred to rationality ?" Better yet, "why was

all this happening to them?" " How could these 'lowly' creatures, the

Turks, against whom they were working day and night to keep them out

of the European Union, were becoming so popular recently?" "Haven't

they been sending negative 'desinformatsiya" against these Turks to all

legislatures of the European Union countries ?" "Haven't they sent a

substantial amount of hostile material to besmirch the good name of

the Turks?" "How could these people excel this way in all these popular

events and receive those world-class awards?" "So what had gone

wrong?"

 

SHow me which Armenian asked those questions you refer above, Mr. Fartation, go ahead.

 

 

Returning to what else makes the Armenians so unhappy we also find that

recently their claims were reputedly denied in Switzerland, Sweden and

of all places in England.. While in the USA, the all-powerful Armenian

lobby is busy to try to pass a likewise resolution,the Armenians

everywhere were slapped in the face with other Turkish successes. In

France, Germany, Holland,Switzerland and Austria respectively,Turkish

heritage candidates were winning seats in various municipal and/or

governmental races.Especially the Armenians had lost in a controversial law suit

they had brought against the Turks concerning the denial of the alleged

genocide. This was a reversal verdict by the Swiss Supreme Court in

Bern..

 

No essance here, errors, misplacements, and fartations, I don't think I have to answer that, since I have answered those lies many times before.

 

 

ISN'T THIS A TURKISH RENAISSANCE?

 

Its about time for the Turks to have their renaissance.

 

 

 

The world-renown Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk winning the literary

award from the Impact-Dublin 2003 in Ireland for his new book "My Name Is

Red "didn't go any better with the Armenians, either. But when a most

beautiful Turkish young lady, Azra Akin became 'Miss World Armenians'

own world came tumbling down. And collapsed unceremoniously over their

heads. Because, no Armenian is known to have won any beauty contest

anywhere in history. They must have hoped that this would be the end, of

all the successes the Turks were going to have in the future. But once

more they were rudely awakened by another blow on the noggin. There

was another Turkish victory! Turks had won again. This time it was the

most fancied and desired prize of all. The Eurovision Song Contest.The

young Turkish singer , Sertap Erener 's victory was hers alone to keep.

She had won it after a fiercely-fought competitive bout with Belgian

and Russian contestants getting the remaining prizes.

 

WOW ! Its so much of a jow, to have Miss world, considering that they have won something, Mr. Fart, how could any Armenians win any Miss world titles before, when Armenia is a newly formed republic, during a period that there was no Armenia to represent for the Miss world title. Hey Mr. Fart, name me any country, in my knowledge there never was any country of 2 million people having any Miss World. As for the rest, I don't masturbate on our success, those that masturbate on theirs, are those that have a complex of inferiority, like you. In the mean time, I am reading right now the studies of the Colleague of Lende one of the worlds greatest physicist, Lende is working with his colleague, to come up with a unification principle in the inflationist Universe theory. And guess what, he's colleague is Armenian. And guess what. I don,t care about it, and I don't use that as a trophy, I just read and admire, what is great, what is beautifull, what is masterpiece, or whatever else, be it from a Turk or an alien.

 

 

 

Erener who gave a migraine headache to the Armenian Site

owner-operators is one of Turkiye's most popular young singers, with album sales

topping the figure of four million. After the biggest indoor concert in

Latvia's history, one Riga newspaper called her the "Turkish Rose with

a crystal voice." Even the Greek Cypriots and mainland Greeks gave

their votes to this talented Turkish singer. What was the reaction of the

French Armenians viewing the contest? They were foaming at the mouth,

or enraged in one word. They turned their wrathful fury against

anything or anyone with a Turkish background .

 

WOW ! 4 million Albums sold, in a population of 65 million people. Whats next ?

 

 

 

Their discordant anti-Turkish voices began to be heard everywhere.One

Armenian said with great assurance:"Those bastard Turks bought all the

contest judges." Another one added: Hey! Listen ! you jerks! Your

Turkish race knows only one thing "to colonize the world,and 'screw' everyone

in the process! There were many other deprecatory voices, letters but

unfortunately we cannot print them here or anywhere else, for that

matter.Those masterpieces of literature should remain where they belong in

the bosom of their pseudo-clever writers and readers, perhaps this is

how they get their "jollies.".

 

I will keep your last sentences, i'lld take note of that, and put your masterpiece where it should be, printed it and use it as toilet paper.

 

 

 

Their ugly epithets remind us of their equally guttural language. By

that we mean that it is really a blessing that no Armenian did enter,

nor win the Eurovision contest, because had they done so and won the

prize the mythical winner would have been called the "Armenian Vart".

That's how you say rose in Armenian mother tongue. Oh , well! As

Shakespeare would have said in the days of yore: "A vart by any other name

is still a vart.!"

 

Here from my equally guttural language I shall conclude.

 

Sireli askit Kak@ Ger.

Edited June 24, 2003 by McCarthyiologist

[Stormig]

TURKS: A CALL TO ARMS

 

Hello, Friends. I’m Holdwater. Since the beginning of this year, I have

constructed probably the Internet’s most comprehensive site on “The

Other Side of the Falsified Genocide,” called T.A.T.:

http://www.tallarmeniantaledotcom

 

I have been fighting the fight in my own way for over the past

twenty-five years, whenever the mood struck… or whenever I came across an

injustice that particularly angered me. However, every time I sent out a

letter of protest, it was difficult to say all that needed to be said

without writing a book. This is why I figured having a convenient

“one-stop-shopping” site could come in handy… I can make a claim in the letter,

and then simply point to the reference on the site.

 

The one thing I discovered is that as knowledgeable as I thought I was

about the Armenian “Genocide,” the more I realized I knew so little.

There is a whole sub-culture out there, with a different language that I

was completely ignorant about… as no doubt many of you are.

 

The way the Turks have been contesting this issue, as many of you are

aware, has been to ignore it. Not only did Turks make the mature

decision to dwell on brotherhood and love instead of hate, Turks have a

defeating kind of “pride”… which is very admirable on one hand… that tells

them to take the high road when they come across campaigns of deceit and

hatred Turks are so familiar with. When Aristotle Onasis was asked why

he didn’t fight the nude pictures secretly taken of his wife, Jackie O,

he replied, “Never get in a pissing contest with a skunk.” (And I think

this is the first time I’ve quoted Mr.Onasis, whose ethnicity, at

times, are not totally unfamiliar with the ways of a skunk.)

 

This is why in the Turkish web sites I’ve come across I basically see:

“Here. This is OUR version. Please… believe us.”

 

I don’t think the people behind these sites have bothered to get inside

the shoes of those who so fervently believe in the awful things Turks

have done throughout history. Why would these people… and I’m not

talking about the “ethnic” Turcophobes who will religiously believe the worst

about the Turks no matter what… take the word of these reports,

particularly if they are written by Turks? Why should take the word of the

“criminal”?

 

This is terribly unfair, as we all know… especially since many of the

“genocide” reports that are written by Turkish scholars are immaculately

researched and documented. They had better be… since these writers are

aware the Turks are on the defensive. However, it’s not enough to sway

minds. The target audience in the Christian (and Jewish) West are

simply much too prejudiced.

 

This is why I set out to mainly use Western sources. No Westerner has

reason to love the Turks (unless they get to know the Turks, which few

have bothered to do)… thus,when they speak for the Turks, they have no

reason not to speak the truth. (The other reason, of course,as Armenians

and Greeks love to charge, is that they are “paid propagandists.”But…

we’ll have to forgive them. They are only doing what Armenians and

Greeks love to do.)

 

I set out on my journey with a completely open mind. (Well… maybe not

completely, but open enough.) I ventured upon the harsh terrain of the

Armenian web sites. Whenever I came across “evidence” that appeared

somewhat legitimate, I analyzed it on the site.(Along with the

overwhelmingly illegitimate evidence, of course.) In fact, the more incriminating

the evidence, the more I treasured taking it apart.

 

Unlike these Armenian and Greek sites, built upon lies and deceit, it

is important for a Turkish site to be 100% truthful.The few times I’ve

come across exaggerations from the Turkish side, I’ve called them on it,

as well. We have nothing to hide. In fact, if ever comes the day when

the Armenian “Genocide” is actually proven… where the Young Turks were

actually behind a campaign to exterminate the Armenians… it wouldn’t

make one bit of difference to me. It wouldn’t cause me to knock my head

against the wall, any more than the crimes that my own nation, the United

States, committed against the Indians, Hawaiians, Filipinos, Fiji

Islanders, and the Vietnamese/Cambodians causes me to lose sleep at night.

In other words, I can easily say… Yes. There was an Armenian Genocide.

 

However, thanks to my intensive research with an open mind,I am

immeasurably more convinced there was no such thing. In fact,I am more

outraged than ever that there is such hypocrisy and a blatant disregard for

the truth in the Western world, regarding this issue. (And other

anti-Turkish issues.)

 

Naturally, the Armenians are content with making their endless

accusations, instead of contesting the issues.However, the few times I’ve run

into Armenians actually countering the Turkish perspective, I’ve jumped

on the rare opportunity to rip open their arguments.I have to hand it

to Dr. Dennis Papazian,for example,for being among the few who dared to

challenge the Turkish claims… he has done so with a FAQ page plastered

on many Armenian sites, entitled, “What every Armenian needs to know,”

and with an essay attacking a 1983 letter (yes, he went back that far)

written by Sukru Elekdag called “Misplaced Credulity.” It was

satisfying to pore through the omnipresent holes of his work… after TAT gets on

the search engines, if anyone should run a search for this silly

Papazian paper, they will get my rebuttal as well.

(http://www.tallarmeniantaledotcom/papazian-rebuttal.htm)

 

I say to all of you: it is time for you to get off your lazy butts.(And

I don’t mean to offend those of you who are off your lazy butts… but we

all know that comprises very few of you.)I say it is time that you

seriously educate yourself on this matter. You cannot defend the Turks if

you don’t know what is going on.

 

This is a big problem with the Turks. Turks are in their own little

independent worlds. (And I’m an example of it.) Turks are apathetic.

(There are times I’ve been guilty of that myself.Who cares about the events

from so long ago, anyway? We all have lives to live.) And Turks do not

support each other. Unlike the Armenians, the Greeks, and the Jews.

They know the value of “In unison, there is strength.”

 

I say also, try to improve your English. This is the imperialist

language in which you must communicate,in order to make your voices heard.If

your English is broken,start off your letters acknowledging your poor

English… and remind your reader the lack of mastery you have over the

language has nothing to do with your message.

 

Just to give you an idea of the intricacies of this Armenian “Genocide”

issue, and to what extent you must educate yourself… how many of you

are aware of what happened to Professor Heath Lowry a few years ago?

Now,I was familiar with Heath Lowry… I knew he was one of the very few

American professors who happened to be enlightened with the real truth.

 

However, if you run a search for Heath Lowry, more than half the

entries will be Armenian and pro-Armenian sites blasting Heath Lowry. You

see, there was an intensive smear campaign against the man over half a

decade ago. And there is not a single source that defends Heath Lowry in

this matter. It just goes to show 1) What overwhelming forces we are up

against, and 2) The apathy of the Turks. Here is one of the very few

friends the Turkish people have, and there are no Turks speaking up for

him.

 

I would consider writing him a belated letter of support, after you

learn more about the issue. Imagine… his precious reputation came under

such vicious attack, and there must have been tremendous emotional damage

to his psyche. With nobody going after the fruitcakes who were and

still are out to destroy him! (I wouldn’t blame him if he began to question

why he took up the cause of the Turkish underdog. He has much integrity

and courage for taking up that cause in the first place, along with the

handful of other American/Western academicians.) Dr. Lowry’s e-mail

address is ataturk@Princeton.EDU; I wouldn’t expect a reply.

 

 

This is part of the Armenians’ terror campaign that they used so well

against their own in 1894-95 and 1914-15… and violently against Turkish

diplomats and others in the 1970s and 80s. Now they are out to destroy

the reputations of academicians who run contrary to their views. And

they are succeeding. What professor would be willing to step into this

minefield, and become another Heath Lowry? (Remember the sixty-nine

American scholars who signed a statement in 1985, attacking yet another

Armenian “resolution”? Good luck finding sixty-nine scholars today, who

would be willing to do the same… for reasons that have nothing to do with

the truth.)

 

Here is the page where I went on the attack, against these “forces of

evil.” When my site gets on the search engines, at least there will be a

counter-view available, when someone runs a search for Heath Lowry:

http://www.tallarmeniantaledotcom/lowry.htm

 

To those of you whom I hope will consider being more of an activist on

this issue, here is what I suggest: Forget about going on Armenian

forums with Armenians/Greeks and other Turk-haters. (Well…. Maybe not

forget about doing so entirely,since these forums are visited by “neutral”

parties, and it’s valuable to have opposing views.) Concentrate your

efforts on “Armenians” in non-Armenian clothing. If you run a search for

World War I and history sites, you will see almost all of Western

Internet history is written entirely from the Armenian perspective.

 

There are certain “Armenians” in non-Armenian clothing who are too

closely in league with the Armenians and who will be just as

incontrovertible. For example, three professors came up with a ludicrous academic

paper trying to smear Heath Lowry ironically entitled, “Professional

Ethics and the Denial of Armenian Genocide.” At least one of these

professors, Roger Smith, belongs to an Armenian organization. They do a

disservice to the notion of professorship, blatantly taking only one side of an

issue, and their university bosses should be made aware of their

unprofessional bias.

 

I made sure to tackle this work in:

http://www.tallarmeniantaledotcom/lowry-sm...mith-lifton.htm

 

The previous post I put up on this Yahoo group is one I sent to the

Turkish Forum, but they haven’t used it.I can’t understand why… it’s the

kind of information most of their readers would have thrived on.I

previously sent them a long letter I wrote to Professor Ostergaard, of the

Danish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies (which I explored in the

page above, as I got into one of these Turk-hating professors,Eric

Markusen… who is a research director for the Danish institute. Professor

Ostergaard is a “boss” of Professor Markusen. Professor Ostergaard did

not bother to write back, so far.) The Turkish Forum has not seen fit to

print that letter, either.

 

Let me give you an example of the kind of response I’ve been getting

from other letters I’ve been writing. I wrote a tough letter to the

executive director of the “Gendercide” site… Owen James, who prepared an

unbelievable essay against the Turks

(http://gendercide.org/case_armenia.html), utilizing as a main source,

Henry Morgenthau. (Yes, Henry Morgenthau… STILL. In this day and age.)

Gendercide has a “staff and affiliates” page, and many of the names

listed received a copy of my letter, as well. An excerpt from my letter

 

:

 

Mr. Jones writes: "...the Turkish government (ruler of the Ottoman

Empire) decided upon the systematic extermination of most of the male

Armenian population... The deportation became a death march, with extreme

violence and deprivation leading to the death of most of the survivors of

the initial gendercide -- as was intended."

 

Funny. There is absolutely no genuine proof that there was a

state-directed genocidal policy, and Mr. Jones feels comfortable with making such

a statement.

 

 

A history professor among them, Henry Huttenbach, wrote back (in its

exact form):

 

 

Dear Holdwater,

 

I presume thank is not your name! I am writing in reply to your

response to your critique of Adam Jones' piece.

 

Since I am a recipient of your text, I am puzzled as to why you felt it

necessary ti share it with me. How did I get on the list and why? Is it

to educate me? Is it a submission to Genocide Research of which I am

the editor? Did you think I would be swayed by your polemic of half

truth? Did you expect a scholarly reply?

 

Furthermore, did you think you could contribute to "historical truth?"

What indeed is your agenda? Do enlighten me! I would also appreciate

knowing who you are and where you are located. Cyer.anonimity is

cowardly.

 

Sincerely yours,

Henry H, Huttenbach

 

 

Look at his tone. He is beside himself in his outrage. He just cannot

believe his version of events should be questioned. Although I included

the sources for nearly every one of my claims, he didn’t bother to

check them, and the scientist within him cannot even acknowledge they can

be true.

 

Imagining that he is a man of integrity and not a tool of the

Armenians, this is the kind of devastating uphill struggle we are all up

against. And this is the kind of brainwashed mind we all must target.

Naturally, I sent him a polite but blistering reply, and I challenged him to

prove why my truths were “half-truths” … and I challenged him to prove

his own “truths.” So far, he has not replied. (As far as his question,

“Did you expect a scholarly reply?”… it is rather presumptuous of him to

label himself as a scholar. A real scholar is objective, and looks at

both sides of an issue. And I don’t mean to be petty, but he even has

trouble spelling. “Anonimity”?)

 

Notice as well he asks about my “agenda.” Meaning…(I suppose)… anybody

who dares to deny the Armenian “Genocide” must be a lackey of the evil

Turkish government. In his bigoted mind, the Armenian “Genocide” is

such a fact, anyone who says otherwise must have a sinister agenda.

Through Eric Markusen, a possible other pea in his pod, Professor Huttenbach

has spoken at the Danish Institute.

 

These genocide scholars have to justify their own existence…. Why are

there so many “genocide scholars,” anyway? What a racket. And the

Armenian “Genocide” is such a “sexy” genocide… look at all the many genocides

these so-called scholars don’t bother with. Some, they don’t even

recognize… we all know of a glaring series: the systematic extermination the

Turks suffered at the hands of some Orthodox peoples. Hypocrites.

 

I thank the owner of this group who took the trouble to set up this

corner of the struggle, and for his efforts in general… I was disappointed

the sites associated with this Yahoo group were only two pages long,

but I realize they were mainly intended as portals (or “doorways”) for

this group. I had already incorporated one of the Bruce Fein articles

presented, and I used the other one as well, crediting one of the

"turkisharmenians" sites. And even though I largely avoided Turkish sources, I

put up three of the .PDF files (from the Files section) as well. (I

also made use of the graphic of Justin McCarthy’s Armenian figures, from

the Photos section. Thank you.)

 

Remember, Turks: Get off your lazy buttocks, pull up your sleeves, and

put up your dukes. Our enemies constantly remind the world the only

thing we are good for is being a warrior nation. Let’s show them what

warriors are really about.

 

Sincerely,

Holdwater

[THOTH]

Links don't work....

[DominO123]

I will maybe answer that later(even if I don't think that it will be anything new), what puzzled me is the section, "hate mail" from this site about Weems http://www.tallarmeniantaledotcom/weems-hate-mail.htm

 

The individual to him he answer, has copied some of my arguments, on the same order.

 

"You need to be able to explain how an ordinary citizen gains access to archives around the world, and, very strangely, is able to read and research in Russian, French, old and new Turkish, and presumable Armenian too, since he wanted access to these archives. Are there translators? Who are they? What are their names and qualifications?"

 

This is exactlly the same thing I said in the past, the wording has been alterated... I still wonder, if this guy copied me, why has he not presented the strongest arguments I presented, but only the weakest? Were they presented, and Weems deleted them in his presentation of the answer?

 

The strange part is that he has the time to answer such people, when he never answered my email to him, and he saw it, because the page I made about him was given at the bottom of my email to him.

 

http://www.stjohnpress.cjb.net/

 

Days after, my page was gone, I contacted the host, later a lot later, I recieved an answer that I havn't respected the terms and conditions. I answered them, by asking which one of those they presented... I recieved no answer, they claimed that my page was deleted, because I have not logged in my account for some times, while the first reason was not the same. I wonder if they have Turks there at the direction.

 

Neither Weems has ever answered that page, neither has he never answered the email, you just find answers arounbd the web, from people that are easy targets, but when you present a strong cases and you ask him to answer, he don't, and those idiots, to justify it claims they have many emails, but on the other hand, if my page has been deleted days after my email to him, I suppose he has read the email, considering that the page was there for months, and it was gone misteriously a week or so after I emailed him that page.

 

Pathetic idiots.

 

Ah, and the maker of this site sounds similar, I remember an individual using the same expressions. The old Domino, never changing, making always the same claims. Right ?

 

 

EDTITED: THoth, take of the "dot" change it for "." it will work.

Edited July 4, 2003 by Fadix

[America-Hye]

I have come to the conclusion that we must ignore the Anatolian Turks completely. We should pursue our national and individual interests, along with our allies. We should do NOTHING to assist the Turkish nation in any way. Dialoging or meeting with them only further encourages their behavior. We should work very hard to bring the Turkish nation to it's knees in any way possible. We can begin by asuring that they NEVER get to join the EU. Next, we should stregthen our already good relations with the Central Asian former-Soviet Turkish states. We should also increase our diplomatic efforts with nations around the world. Face it that we are not totally European. Stop the few eshegs among us who express our problems with an us vs. them rhetoric in regards to race. We already have Turkish allies who are not Anatolian Turks. We even have allies among Anatolian Turks living in Germany and elsewhere. The Chinese and Japanese governments are already assisting the ROA. Next strengthen our alliances with the Greeks, Bulgarians, Georgians, moderate Iranians. Kurds, Syrians, and Cypriots. Encirle the Turkish bastards with a ring of allies whose nations have at one time been "raped" by the Turks.

 

Any discussion with them is counterproductive. There have clearly stated their approach. DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO SUCCEED IN THEIR PRESENT EFFORTS TO SEPERATE THE INTERESTS OF THE DIASPORA ARMENIANS FROM THE INTERESTS OF THE ARMENIANS IN THE ROA. The Turkish government is attempting a divide and conquer manoeuver to dissipate Armenian strength.

[DominO123]

If there is people that did not read this, here is your chance... My goal is not to destroy the claims, I don't need to do that. Just read an laught. Would someone tell he is not a racist?

 

 

 

 

To:

Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:14 PM

Subject: response to your message

 

Dear MusicDotcm@cs.com or whatever your real name is that you conceal:

 

Your message, titled a "few lessons on propaganda," has been forwarded to me by my publisher, St. John Press. I am delighted to respond to show the world just what manner of craven, bigoted, extremist you proved yourself to be in your hate filled message.

 

First of all, you know and I know that you have not read my book because it was not published nor released when you wrote your email. What is it with you cowardly, fanatic, extremist Armenians? I have received more than 1000 hate emails and death threats from your kind — and not one of you has read my book and most of you are afraid to sign your name or give your physical address. Only a coward writes hate mail while hiding in the black of night working out of slimly scum-filled back alleys while attacking someone's character. You call me a felon yet you ignore truth. How do you explain my public record as an elected district attorney, judge, city council member and delegate to the 1970 Arkansas Constitutional Convention? Starting in 1919 you Armenians became expert in such back alley craven attacks in the dead of night on Americans so that no one will know who you are. You place me in very distinguished company.

 

Permit me to prove exactly the kind of "cowardly misfit" you are:

 

 

 

 

1. If you will be so kind as to state in plain and direct language that I am a felon and sign your name (please provide your address) — I will be delighted to send you an invitation to come on down to Arkansas. I will give you the opportunity to prove in the light of day your typical Armenian great lie! I promise that my invitation will be one that you will not be able to ignore. Call me a felon and be man enough-brave enough--and have the personal courage enough-- to sign your name and give your address, before you attempt to smear my name with your typical Armenian hate filled made up tall tales! Come out of hiding and identify yourself if you are a real man! I welcome the opportunity to send you an invitation from one of our courts of law and I look forward to seeing you before a jury to let you explain yet another typical wild and made up tall tale based on nothing more than your Armenian bloated hot air.

 

2. You wrote "make sure you don't look suspicious by establishing a company solely for printing one propaganda book i.e. St John Press."

 

In simple language that even you can understand — You are just plain "goofy" and "ignorant" to make such a bird-brained comment! Clearly you don't know one single thing about my book or my publisher, and you have opened your typical Armenian corrupt mouth and put your filthy foot into it.

 

St. John Press is part of a very large Texas Company that occupies the entire 7th floor of an important Dallas, Texas commercial building. Isn't this an amazing accomplishment for a one-book company?

 

Here is one additional fact for you to chew on. This one book will grow to five over the next few years. If you had read my book, which I know for a fact that you haven't-you would see that my book Armenia-Secrets Of A "Christian" Terrorist State —The Armenian Great Deception Series -- Volume I — is based on Armenian records. You can look forward to four more books to complete my series that tells it all. Why don't you have the courage and honor to challenge specific issues I have written about rather than just attacking me? But then you Armenians have been attacking Americans who discover truth about you for a long time, and it has become your typical pattern! You started telling lies about future president, Herbert Hoover, in 1919 and your character and physical attacks on Americans who speak the truth about your tiny speck of a state continue to this very day. I reveal a long list of Americans you Armenians have dishonestly and unfairly attacked in my book. This is so typical of you cowardly beggars who want other people to give you handouts just because you lie and claim to be the first Christian State on earth. Why don't you Armenians go to work like people from the rest of the world rather than mooch money for your 150 year-old terrorist homeland that the Russians gave to you after they killed off the real Muslim owners?

 

 

 

 

 

3. You ask how an "ordinary citizen gains access to archives around the world, and very strangely, is able to read and research in Russian, French, old and new Turkish, and presumable Armenian too, since he wanted access to these archives. Are there translators? Who are they? What are their names and qualifications?"

 

I did my research exactly like your self-proclaimed and self-anointed Armenian historian did it. Do you want to know more? "Access around the world" is simple. London, Rome, Paris, Moscow, Istanbul, Ankara, and Washington, D.C.-just ask and anyone of them will welcome an "ordinary citizen" to come and research, and that is exactly how I did it. The employees in each of these archives I mentioned will also help you in many ways. You really should try it sometime before you jump to your conclusions and assumptions and attack an "ordinary citizen" just because he tells truth about your pathetic small state. I take great personal pride in the fact that I am an "ordinary citizen" of the United States of America. An "ordinary citizen" who is fed up with giving you Armenians billions of my tax dollars in handouts while you are double dealing the United States of America. I not only state that you Armenians are a bunch of double dealers-I prove it!

 

Then there is Armenia and their terrorist organization, The Armenian Revolutionary Federation, you Armenians have headquartered in Boston. Perhaps you can answer the question: Why can't your terrorist organization be housed in Armenia and why is it in the United States at all?

 

Certainly, after September 11th, there is no place in the United States for an admitted "terrorist" organization of any kind! When are you going to move your base of terrorism out of the great country of the United States? "Ordinary citizens" of the United States don't want a gaggle of terrorists of any kind in our country. Move your terrorists back to Armenia where they belong. After all, Armenians today are double dealing the United States by selling material to Iran to help them make weapons of mass destruction. Your terrorist organization belongs and fits right in there!

 

You Armenians are well aware that you keep your achieves under lock and key so that no "ordinary citizen" from anywhere in the world can ever do research in either Armenia or Boston. What are you people hiding from us "ordinary citizens? What are you afraid we will find in your archives? You should also know that you Armenians are in the lowest of classes of people in the world for keeping your proof of your terrorist activities so secret.

 

This secret Armenian conduct is one of the reasons why I titled my book Armenia-Secrets of A "Christian" Terrorist State. I was able to research and discover the truth about your fake "ancient 150 year old homeland."

 

Any "ordinary citizen" has translators available to him or her if they are needed when they do detailed research. That is exactly what your own self proclaimed historian did and so did I. You bellow and bray about wanting to know "who did my translation-What are their names and qualifications?"

 

That is non-of your business! The real question is what is it I have written (in specifics) that isn't true? Had you read my book, which I know for certain that you have not, you could then ask intelligent questions without making a character attack upon me and making a total fool out of yourself. What tree in Armenia did you fall out of and high up were you when you fell on your head to ask such silly and juvenile questions?

 

 

 

 

4. You make the off-the-wall statement: "Unless this book is to comfort you in your denials, it is a shameful and absolutely cowardly act of incompetent propaganda. You're making Recognition much easier than you think."

 

Permit me to prove that you are a mindless moron and an intellectually dishonest dimwit! You have made this wild and made up comment about a book neither you, nor any Armenian read. You are the cowardly-craven individual making typical Armenian hydrophobia claims regarding a book that you do not have a single clue about what is in it. I even doubt you have the IQ to even read a book much less understand one. You refuse to reveal your identity and you hide in the dark as all cravens do. My personal experience is that this is so typical of Armenians.

 

You claim my book "is a shameful and absolutely cowardly act of incompetent propaganda." Since you haven't read the book let's talk about facts your slimy imbecilic-racist mouth calls "incompetent propaganda." Let's you and I deal with absolute truth:

 

 

 

I--Admit or deny that it was a high priest of the Armenian Church who first made-up and told the great lie that the Ottomans were massacring Armenians in Anatolia. Proof of this fact, which is in my book, is that your high priest concocted and starting telling this tall tale 3 days after the Ottoman government announced it was removing disloyal Armenians who were helping the invading Russians. Your Armenian forefathers pretended to be loyal Ottoman friends and neighbors by day but in truth were disloyal cowardly traitors by night. I notice that you Armenians never once admit that you were helping the Russians in your greedy, get something for nothing, land grab attempt and this is why the Ottomans threw your forefathers out of the country. Armenians were never much of a people and could never accomplish land grabs on their own. Armenians continue today whining to foreign Christian powers begging help to steal Muslim lands.

 

Shame on you because there will never be peace in the Near East because you teach your children to hate from birth and want lands for nothing like you do!

 

The terrible truth is that you Armenians will not admit this great truth and acknowledge that Armenians murdered, in cold blood, far more Muslims than your people were killed by the Ottomans or others. Here is the rest of the story that you Armenians want to keep hidden from Christians around the world. Your high priest started telling his made up tall tale almost a full six weeks before a single Armenian behind the Ottoman army packed a bag to leave. Clearly there could not have been a massacre as your state owned church claims. I have the documented proof of this fact from the archives in Moscow, London, Paris, and Washington, D. C. What do you say about that?

 

 

 

 

II-Admit or deny that you pathetic Armenians are attempting to jump on the Jewish "genocide" bandwagon in an attempt to fleece and deceive the Christian world out of even more billions of dollars. How do you explain the fact that more than 100,000 of your Armenian forefathers voluntarily joined the Nazi Army as far back as the mid 1930s and fought for Hitler's racial pure state until the end of the war in 1945?

 

Armenians supported Hitler by fighting the forces of freedom on the battlefields of Europe. Your forefathers who were Armenian Nazis were also very good at capturing Jews to send to the death camps. Your Armenian forefathers even began a weekly radio broadcast from Berlin in 1935 called "Armenia. This broadcast was a regular program every week until the Nazis lost the war in 1945. This broadcast was an example of the "incompetent propaganda" of which you bray about and it was your own forefathers who did it. The sad fact is your own forefathers were preaching racial/ethnic purity and millions of good and innocent people were murdered because of it. And you Armenians want a genocide memorial in Washington, D.C. That is pathetic because your Armenian forefathers were the partners with the Nazis and helped create the real genocide. I have the documented proof of this fact from the archives in Moscow, London, Paris, and Washington, D.C. What do you say about that?

 

You Armenians are some of the world's best con artists to ever live on planet earth. How can you Armenians keep a straight face in creating your U.S. genocide memorial two blocks from my White House in Washington, D.C.? What did the United States have to do with anything in the Ottoman Empire in 1915? The United States was never at war with the Ottoman Empire in1915--then or ever. The United States was at war with you Armenians as a part of the Soviet Union for many years though. You dare to call what I write "incompetent propaganda?" The Armenian genocide memorial is a great fraud and scam from day one. It is a fake and is nothing more than another effort to deceive and fleece the Christian taxpayers of the United States out of even more billions of their hard-earned dollars. And to think-your Armenian forefathers helped create the real genocide and now you want to cash in on the horror of what your forefathers did to the Jewish race. Shame on you Armenians for doing such an evil thing!

 

III-Admit or deny that today there are more Armenian churches in Muslim Turkey than there are Armenian Christian churches in Christian Armenia. How do you explain the fact that Armenia doesn't allow freedom of religion to members of Islam, Judaism nor other branches of the Christian church other than their one an only state owned church? How do you explain the persecution of other Christian churches except the one and only Armenian state owned and controlled church? How do you explain the fact that today in Armenia more than 95% of the people there are now ethnic pure Armenian?

 

You Armenians learned well from your Nazi partners in World War II now didn't you? I have the documented proof about these facts. What do you say about that?

 

 

 

 

IV-Admit or deny the $1 billion plus dollars the Russians gave Armenia in military hardware to make a sneak attack on Muslim Azerbaijan? How do you explain the fact that after your tiny Armenia obtained the more than $1 billion dollars in military assistance and your pitiful little state stole more than 20% of a neighbor's lands by armed force you drove more than one million poor Muslims from their homes. You Armenians call this a "holy war" and didn't pay these Muslims one penny in compensation. What kind of Christians are you to commit such acts of terror? Christ would never approve of such conduct and you know it!

 

Thereafter you Armenians did the following to gain big brother's protection from the Muslims after your surprise attack stealing their lands: How do you explain what your kinsmen in Armenia did as to the following?

 

-Invited the Russians into your tiny state to build two army bases and today they station their troops there?

 

-Invited the Russians to come in and build two military air bases. Today there are 24 Russian MIG jet fighter aircraft there?

 

-Invited the Russians to bring in a large number of their surface to air missile batteries and they are there today?

 

-The fact Armenians and Iranians are fronting business firms in Armenia for the Russians that sell equipment and technology to Iran that can be used to build weapons of mass destruction in clear violation of United States law?

 

Since you Armenians love the Russians so much why should American taxpayers (like me) give your tiny state one more cent of our tax dollars in foreign aid? We have given you more than $1.5 billion of our dollars over the past eleven years already. Isn't it past time to let your fellow traveler Russian blood brothers keep up Armenia? I have the documented proof of this fact from an official United States congressional study report. What do you say about that?

 

V-Admit or deny the truth that Armenia has never been more than a vassal state controlled by someone else throughout history. You claim an "ancient homeland" as your matter of right provided some foreign government (like the Russians) come in and give you someone else's lands. If we Americans listen to you and do what you are asking us to do in the Near East we will have to give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California and parts of several other states to the Mexico because those are their "ancient homelands" too! That wasn't that long ago as compared to the three thousand years you want to go back and claim for your lands in the Near East. But that isn't the worst part for you Armenians is it? The rest of us Americans will have to give up all our lands and give them to the Native Americans who were here before us because that is their "ancient homeland", right? That means even you small but loud gaggle off Armenians living here will have to return to your less than 200-year old "ancient homeland" in Armenia. You know and I know that you will never support lands in America for Native Americans or Mexicans for their "ancient homeland" so why should anyone listen to your counterfeit claim for ancient homelands of three thousand years ago? You know and I know that the United States government isn't about to give Mexico one inch of land and neither is our government going to give Native Americans one inch of land either. The same logic applies to Turkey and they aren't going to give Armenia one inch of their lands. I suggest you take a look at the Lausanne Peace Treaty that took place in July 24, 1923 (See "Ataturk" by Andrew Mango page 387). It is past time for you Armenians to get a life and love your fellow man as your Bible teaches you to do.

 

VI-Admit or deny that several American eyewitness saw more than one million Armenians being removed for helping the Russians and who left the Ottoman lands alive? The question must be asked — Who do you believe — Americans who saw the removed Armenians departing the Ottoman lands or Armenians who have created a fake "genocide industry" just to fleece and deceive the Christian world by using this phantom--fabricated story to get money? I have the documented proof of this fact from the archives in Moscow, London, Rome, Paris, and Washington, D.C. What do you say about that?

 

VII-Admit or deny the Armenians claim that 1.5 million of your people were massacred in 1915 in Anatolia and that this is more people than who lived there at the time? How do you explain the fact that Armenians, seeking handouts, claim there were more than one million refugees who were removed from Anatolia — isn't this Armenian new math because these millions can't be both dead and refugees even by your count! This entire Armenian genocide claim is as bogus as a three-dollar bill and you know it! How about Turkish suffering — how about their dead? Oh, Yes, they were not Christian though, were they? I have the documented proof of this fact from the archives in Moscow, London, Rome, Paris, and Washington, D.C. What do you say about that?

 

 

 

 

VIII-Admit or deny that you Armenians teach your children to hate Turks from birth? This isn't a Christian act now is it?

 

IX--If tiny Armenia was truly the first Christian state on earth why in the world doesn't your state owned church teach love and forgiveness? Even in Christ's time there was the separation of church and state. Armenia must separate its church and state if the true message of Christ is to be taught there. This is why your church has engaged in terrorism from the mid-1800s up to and including this very day. The Armenian Church is nothing more than a front and an extension of your state run terror machine.

 

MusicDotcm@cs.com or whoever you really are-these are just a few of the facts I write about in my book. It really doesn't matter who I am just as it doesn't matter who you are-what is important is the message and the TRUTH I write about. I hope you read my book and find the truth about how your brain has been washed in Muslim blood. Armenians are so full of hate for Turks you don't even know what you are talking about. You never question or bother to first seek the truth for yourselves. I do hope my research will shed some light to your twisted minds that are filled with such hate. I have based each and every conclusion I made on historical evidence. That is what matters, not who I am. The first edition of my book is almost sold out. As I asked above, if you provide me with your real name and address, I will be more than happy to ask my publisher to hold one book just for you.

 

Permit me to make one last point: Before you attack my character about a book you haven't read yet-ask your Armenian terrorist blood brothers back in your 150 year-old ancient home land to pay their bills. Armenia borrowed $50 million dollars at 5% interest in 1919 from the United States government and mooched another $40 million from American Christians in that same year whom your forefathers then attacked for not giving them more of American church money. You Armenians haven't paid one red cent to us "ordinary citizens" to repay this loan yet that was made to you in good faith. However, you love the Russians so much you borrowed $100 million dollars from them in recent years and you repay these loans. WHY CAN'T YOU PAY YOUR DEBTS TO THE UNITED STATES SINCE YOU CAN PAY OFF THE RUSSIANS? We Americans have given and loaned your tiny state more dollars than the Russians have given and loaned you.

 

When you start repaying what you owe me (and all other taxpayers here in the United States) then you have the right to challenge what I have written. And I ask you to be specific.

 

Until you Armenians pay your debts — keep your filth, slime and lies about me to yourself! The truth is that I didn't write my book for you Armenians. I wrote it for the "ordinary" American Christian taxpayer whom you have deceived and cheated all these many years.

 

Sam Weems

 

PS — Remember, I am extending to you an invitation to come to Arkansas to debate what you have to say-that is if you dare to come out of the dark alley you are hiding in. Do you have the courage of your convictions to face me man to man in a public place where "ordinary citizens" can make the final determination of just who is a truth teller and who is not!

[Mher]

-The fact Armenians and Iranians are fronting business firms in Armenia for the Russians that sell equipment and technology to Iran that can be used to build weapons of mass destruction in clear violation of United States law?

 

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I was reding till this blew me away HAHAHAHAHAHAH

[THOTH]

WOW Domino - great stuff....but I thought that Weems was dead or such...what gives? And yeah - you have clearly been copied. Weems and his non-answers...I hope he is still alive to continue the great tradition of Armenian Genocide denial (more absurd then the last...)

 

Oh and - thanks - change the "dot" - got it - i just clicked an ddidn't look closely...though now i reacll an earlier discussion about not posting direct links to such (hate) sites - etc...

 

Oh and American-Hye - well good for you...but unfourtunatly Armenia (and Armenians I think) must see it differently. Obviously Armenian is a tiny and vulnerable, land locked state that borders a regional power (Turkey...in case you haven't as yet figured it out) that is none to keen to be friendly. Well no state in such a situation willl last very long if it doesn't attempt to somehow diffuse the hostility...and also reconcilliation with the Turks will prove a great economic boon to Armenia...Armenains realize this...unlike you it seems. Sure everyone is frustrated by Turkey's continued intragagence...but burying ones head in the sand and denying reality is no way to achieve any progress..in fact it is sure suicide...though you are perhaps making some points to consider regarding a Turkish divide and conquor strategy...unfourtunatly the interests of Armenian and that of the Diaspora do not always coincide...just a fact of life...but we both need to be aware of where we diverge and attampt to do waht we can to not sabotage the other's interests...

Edited July 6, 2003 by THOTH

[DominO123]

I don't believe Weems is dead, I think he left for Turkey.

[THOTH]

Domino - is that something like the Frank Zappa quote "Jazz is not dead...it just smells funny?"

[DominO123]

No, it's more than that. It's more like someone having claimed 5 books of a series and claiming he has nearly finished the second, and being exposed that the second was even not started, and that there were no ellement to even start a second book.

 

I was able to put my hand on his first work. YUP ! I will be commenting probably on the genocide section, pratically all the references used were collected from Turkish sources, and another parts, from sources you can find on the web. I may compare parts of his works with references to Turkish authors, not people like Gurun, nope, Gurun was not enough racist to be used... references such as the one book written in French I have refered in the past were used. All this publicity for NOTHING ! New, His English is more repetitive than mine, thats behind belief, using the same expressions pages by pages, both litterary and content total flaw. I would access my other harddisk, and I will present this when I can.

 

The Introduction is a masterpiece(on the other sense of the term), I think I will be posting the introduction in its entirity in the humour section. For now, even Orel would sound like a specialist compared with this "..."

 

I still am waiting any Turks to present references on the web about his book(quotes from the book bringing arguments), have they read actually the book? I think yes ! This is probably why they are not refering to them, and in the footnotes, the actual original reference is pointed out, and not from which books it has been taken, I know that, because of the translation, when you read a book and find a material presented, and you read another one, and you find out that the translation is litterary the same, its evident that it has been taken from the other book and not the actual real sources.

 

For now, I can't comment more about that, I will when I can by starting a thread at the genocide section.

Edited July 6, 2003 by Fadix

[THOTH]

Understood...I had suspected that he might be a total Turkish fabrication...even Southern racists aren't often as dim witted as he...

 

And of course his "sources" are exactluy as you are claiming...and like the typical Turkish arguments on this issue - scratch only so lightly beneath the surface (if one needs to do even that...) and the fabrications and absudaty peeek through very clearly...

[DominO123]

Yes! But he claims they are Armenian sources, Katachadouni, the so-called Armenian files brough by Uras... even the "Boston" said archive he claims is comming from a flase claim from the work that has been used by Turks to refer to Katachadouni, with the reference at "Boston revolutionary committee" something that never really existed.

 

Those are the Armenian references he is talking about, he brings a quote and than he writes load about the quote that are compleatly unrelated with the quote. Something like "Typical Armenian behavour there"(quoting from memory)

 

After having seen the book, I think we should compleat what Weems started, distribute them to the members of the Congress, in order that they read what is in. It is self-destroying, it is even bellow the low expectations I had before reading it, while even Simsir work was higher than my expectations.

[America-Hye]

Winston,

 

I am very aware of Armenia's circumstances. But she does have powerful friendly allies adjacent to her, Russia , Iran, etc. Turkey is a big bully, who always wants to gain advantage at every neighboring nation's expense.

[THOTH]

A-H -

 

Well I question just how powerful and friendly are these nations of whom you speak - and regardless of pacts/treaties and such just how far they would go to defend Armenian and under what circumstances. haven't we learned that we cannot count on others? And really - even if so 9that these nations are friendly and capable of protecting Armenia to some extent)...this does not at all obviate the need to lessen tensions and attempt to diminsh very real threats on the borders...

[America-Hye]

Winston,

 

I think that you are very naive. Every manoeuver of Turkey is to gain advantage toward the eventual day where Armenia does not exist. They have a grand plan for a Greater Turkey that stretches from Istambul to beyond the Chinese border. (let them take on the Chinese, I would relish that). Everthing else they do is subtrefuge. I believe that what you want is capitulation on all points, including burying the episodes of the genocide.

[Stormig]

Keenan Pars, chairman of comparative genocide studies.

 

 

Message: 1

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:45:44 -0800 (PST)

From: Keenan Pars

Subject: CIRCASSIAN GENOCIDE? (Cerkes Soykirimi?)

 

Seems that everybody and his brother can play this victimhood game. We're learning a great deal from the professional victims, aka, the Armenians and Greeks. Alas, poor Jews! At the rate these pros are watering down the term "genocide," the real Holocaust of Jews will soon be diluted to lite beer from 86 proof scotch. When it comes to the con, the Greek and Armenian pros make Machiavelli look like a rank amateur. By the way, wasn't the term, "Byzantine intrigue" in use long before anybody ever heard of that Mickey Mouse of an amateur named Machiavelli?

 

Speaking of the genocide of the people of Kavkazia by the Rus, I think I have a much more solid and recent case to make for claims than the Armenian claims that go back ninety years. In their case, none of the perpetrators of the alleged crimes are alive today. In my case, some of the criminals and some of the victims are still alive. Today, some Georgian thief sits in the house of my father. How do I get him out? Will Messrs. Knollenberg, Pallone, Radanovich and Schiff lobby for me? But I must be fair and warn these honorable gentlemen beforehand: The pockets of the Karachay emigre community in the U.S. are not nearly as deep as the pockets of Greeks and Armenians. And at most, the Karachay can only deliver about a thousand votes to the honorable gentlemen.

 

In the nineteenth century, the population of the Karachay was about 150 thousand. Since that time, the world population doubled, tripled, quadrupled. Today, the number of Karachays is still about 150 thousand. Add to that a couple thousand in Turkey and a couple thousand more in the U.S.. Why hasn't the population of the Karachay people doubled, tripled, quadrupled?

 

On Nov.2, 1943, the entire population of the Karachay nation were deported to Central Asia and Siberia where half of them perished. At the time, an uncle of mine was a captain in the Soviet army fighting the Nazis. After having been wounded at the warfront, he returned home in 1944 with honors and his uniform lined with medals. He was promptly picked up by the NKVD and deported to join his people in exile.

 

My father beat it out of Russia in January of 1943. In the 1930's he had served three and a half years of a ten-year sentence in a prison labor camp in Siberia. His crime?: After giving up to the Bolsheviks the family's herds of cows and horses, my father committed the unspeakable crime of hiding two cows and one horse for the family's use. Anyway, he ended up in an Austrian displaced persons camp at the end of the war. Thanks to the generosity of the Turkish Republic and the kindhearted Turkish people, in 1948, he found refuge in Turkey. He was given a plot of land and a job in a state-run factory at a time when even many native-born Turks were jobless. Two of his brothers were not as lucky. On the night that the news came they would be deported back to Stalin's Russia the next morning, they never made it out of the DP camp, as my father was able to do.

 

All in all, my kin were luckier than most. All three of my uncles survived and returned home to Kavkazia in 1957. But my father died in 1984, never again seeing his brothers or the 3 year-old daughter he left behind in 1943. To this day, neither I nor my two siblings from my father's second marriage have seen this older sister of ours who is now a widow of 63 and has a grown, married daughter of her own. God willing, we will remedy this situation. Come next spring, we, the American side of the family, plan a trip to Russia. I am not much for hugs and kisses, but I expect that I will be giving and receiving some of the longest and biggest hugs of my life.

 

The whole point of the above long-winded sob story is that like the Armenians, we all have sob stories. But unlike the Armenians, we Turks, do not cry, we do not whine, we do not bellyache. We do not pursue a vendetta. We do not play the "victimhood game." We do not assassinate Russian, Armenian, Greek diplomats. We do not find joy in seeing an earthquake in Armenia as the Armenians find joy in seeing an earthquake in Turkey. We do not carry on a campaign of smears, slurs and of senseless hatred. We do not make it our raison d'etre to hate. We do not spend good money to purchase a "genocide resolution" by bribing opportunistic, ethnic-pandering politicians. We, Turks, bind our wounds and go on living.

 

Apropos Guler Hanim's point: It is not the Cherkes who are lobbying Congress "and anything that moves." Let me add that neither is it the Karachay, or Tatars or Daghistanis or the Abaza or Chechens or Azeris or Tutsis or Hutus. The Armenian fanatics and the U.S. politicians would do well to know that the life of an Armenian is no more and no less valuable than the life of a Pygmy. What chutzpah of the Armenian to claim otherwise!

 

Not a peep out of Messrs. Pallone, Knollenberg, Hovanissian and Dadrian about Mussolini's rape of Ethiopia in 1936. Deafening silence from these honorable people when it comes to the French rape, pillage, plunder, genocide of Algeria. In the case of Algeria, it was as recent as 1962. I was 12 then, and was able to read newspapers. I also read newspapers a couple years ago when the French government decided (in the case of the Algerian Genocide) that "history should be left to historians." Was it not the same French who passed the "Armenian Genocide" resolution just a year earlier, despite Turkish protestations that history should be left to historians? How do you say hypocrisy in the French language?

 

I don't want to deliver too unkind of a cut here by mentioning and reminding the honorable U.S. politicians about the American practice of enslaving Africans and of the extermination of Amerindians. As Jack Chirac said about the "Algerian Genocide," let historians judge history - it is not the job of vote and money-hungry politicians to legislate history.

 

As the other interlocutors on this thread allude to, and in answer to, and with all due respect to V. Stohlmeyer's admonition, the point here is not to excuse one's own misbehavior by pointing out the much worse misbehavior of others. The point here is to point out the hypocrisy of Bible-thumping, fire-and-brimstone preachers who happen to practice a bit of pedophelia on the side.

 

Prof. Stohlmeyer, the point here is pointing out and exposing shameless charlatans who live in glass houses but who do not have the good sense of refraining from throwing stones. The point here is that the Turkish house is made of much stronger material than glass.

 

My advice to Armenian stringers who are duped into and cast in walk-on roles, in second-rate B movies, directed by the profiteers of the cottage industry known as the "Armenian genocide" : Get a life!

 

Hovanissians, Dadrians, Michael Arlens and Peter Balakians, along with the rest of the champions of the "Armenian Cause," are getting rich. Getting duped into buying Balakian's book in bulk may falsely get this book on the NY Times bestseller list, but it will also make you poorer, all the while enriching the ultra-nationalism-preaching fanatics (and scoundrels) amongst you. And that goes for your deceitful, money-grubbing priests as well.

 

Having said the above mouthful, I remain optimistic - as is the nature of North Kavkazians. But I think the Armenians are strangely, unexplicably, mindboggingly and unnaturally preoccupying and wasting their lives with this idee fixe of a "genocide." The Armenians have, for the lack of a better term, a serious "head" problem. The Armenians need to know that far from believing that they have inflicted a wrondoing upon the Armenian people, the nation of the Turks thinks of the Armenians as traitors - a notion that is not dispelled by the obnoxious, despicable behavior of contemporary Armenians around the world today.

 

Armenians are fooling nobody but themselves when they try to purchase an "Armenian genocide" resolution by bribing political prostitutes like Pallone and Knollenberg. It's a waste of money. Were it not for Armenian votes/money and their thuggish intimidation tactics, Knollenberg and Pallone would not know Armenia from Albania.

 

Who's kidding whom? Watching the carrot/stick, bribery/intimidation tactics of the Armenian slicks, I once entertained thoughts of asking Rep. Pallone to lobby on my behalf in getting that Georgian thief out of my father's house in the Caucasus. But on further thought, I decided against it. Let the Georgian thief keep my house. I'm inclined to believe that he needs it more than I do.

 

Dear Gagikian, if misfortune befell upon your nation, it is not the fault of the stars. Nor is it the fault of the Turks. It is the fault of your treacherous, back-stabbing ancestors. Curse your ancestors - not the stars, not the Brits, not the French, not the Americans, not the Turks. The great Armenian philosopher, Pogo, knew his Armenians well when he said: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

 

Just one more maxim from another great philosopher, Guido Sarducci : "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF." Armenian zealots today are repeating insanely, the precise tactics that were employed by the ultra-Armenians of 100 years ago, as if those tactics resulted in success. In the last half of the nineteenth century and in the first two decades of the twentieeth century, Armenian terrorists committed horrible atrocities in Turkey while Armenian provocateurs in the West propagandized that it was the Turks who were doing injustice to poor "starving" Armenians. The question arises: What exactly was gained by the perverse, diabolical and despicable tactics of the Armenian version of today's Al-Qaida? What good did General Dro (Osama bin Ladin) and Boghos Nubar, aka, Saddam, bring to the nation of the Armenian?

 

A second question: Why are the Armenians of today so bent on repeating history? I suggest that the Armenians get themselves different leaders than the likenesses of Osama and Saddam. I further suggest that Armenian future will be no different than their past as long as they are beset by the likes of Kocharian and that buffoon of Glendale who calls himself Harut Sassounian.

 

With apologies to those few Armenians who could possibly be called millet-i sadika,

 

Keenan Pars

[Stormig]

More from Keenan Pars, chairman of comparative genocide, doesn't know that those half a dozen fronts that the sultans and CUP had been having Turkish youth killed in had nothing to do with nation but with EMPIRE:

 

 

http://www.ataa.org/spotlight/r_pars_may4.html

 

Millions of Turks massacred by Armenians

 

 

Providence Journal,04/28/2002

 

Regarding Armeny Apkarian's April 23 letter, "Armenian massacre": He asks how many Turks were killed. The answer is around 3 million -- due in large measure to the treachery, treason and doublecross by Armenians who had engaged in mass armed uprisings even decades before the start of World War I.

 

In 1915, Armenians by the tens of thousands deserted and joined the Russian armies invading Turkey. Since virtually all of Turkey's young men were at a half dozen war fronts fighting for the very existence of the nation, Armenians behind Turkish lines set upon defenseless Turkish villages, where they massacred old people, women and children by the tens of thousands.

 

The idea of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation was to kill as many Muslim Turks, Jewish Turks, Kurds and any other non-Armenians as they could, and terrorize the rest into fleeing so that an ethnically pure Armenia could be established on Turkish soil -- very similar to the idea of ethnic-cleansing applied by the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo.

 

Even the Russian soldiers, not exactly known for their mercy, were shocked and repulsed by the atrocities committed by the Armenians -- so much so that the commander on the scene informed his superiors in Russia that he would resign unless the Armenians were pulled to back of the Russian lines.

 

KEENAN PARS

Silver Spring, Md.

[Stormig]

Read this on Groong: Kayseri Bar lawyer Orhan Pekmezci applies to the European Court of Human Rights, suing France for recognizing the Armenian Genocide. And I believe the application was approved and he was asked for witnesses to prove an Armenian genocide of Turks. Just what is going on? The statements don't make sense, unless the original complaint was, "France says Armenians were subjected to genocide but in fact it was the other way around."

 

BTW, Pekmezci must sue the Permanent People's Tribunal as well for its verdict:

 

http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/Table_Of_Co...ppt_verdict.htm

[THOTH]

Wow Stormy I had missed these (Keenan Pars pieces) when you first posted them.

 

Any valid point that this guy might have (and an interesting portryal of the Karachay "genocide") etc - is overcome by his obvious bais against and hatrad of Armenians. I don't mean to sound like a Jew who acuses anyone with a negative opinion about anything Jewish as an Anti - Semite - but to me this is clear - and of course "publishing" in/on ATAA - well.... And again where he and others like him really fall flat is this calim of 3 million? Turks killed during WWI - - and attibuting these (supposed/unverified) deaths to actions on the part of Armenians...LOL - yeah women & chidren witrh pitchforks - a deadly combination. And all should note this not so vieled threat that he makes of histoy repeating itself. With more Turks like this guy I would say to expect trouble (I mean this as us towards them...perhaps an organization of the likes of ASALA may not be a bad thing - for the likes of Turks like this guy)

 

Oh and this last post - a Turk suing to get rec ognition of an Armenain Genocide of Turks...know what I say - "bring it on" Bring it on baby! What fools...what stupid arogant foolish fools...

[Stormig]

I think all nations should get into a spree of recognizing the genocide of others committed by yet others and see what happens.