Female Kings (women tashnags)

[Kazza]

I have just opened this for now, havent got much to write at the moment. This is a great topic. While searching for information I found a woman named Kouioumyan in one of the search results! Manybe I cum from the tashnags!

 

Feel free If you have any contributions before me.

[Paul bunyan]

how about female warlords? they had them in Europe like Boudicca of England or Joan of Arc who commanded an entire Army and confered with the top eschelon including the King not bad for a teenager, there was a Queen Zenobia who fought Rome for 14 years and the er..., "unforgetable", Cleopatra, there is painting in Armenia of the battle of Avayair

of Vartan Mamigonian fame one of his

fighters is clearly female.

Does anyone know her name and story?

 

no hashish forever

[nairakev]

I have heard of one Armenian queen her name was Mary-Louys and she was .... pretty ... pretty nasty woman? Anyone knows about who am talking?

[Anahid Takouhi]

I know, but wo'nt tell you

[Kazza]

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WAR

 

It was in the mid-fifth century, the time of Vartan Mamigonioan, Armenia was divided between the Eastern Roman (later Byzantine) Empire and the

Persian Empire.

 

Though much of Armenia was formally ruled by the Zoroastrian Persians, (which, Armenia was in war against at the time) the authority of the Armenian Church and the Armenian

princely families (the nakharars) was not disrupted.

 

This situation began to change around the mid-fifth century.

 

RELIGION

 

The Persian Shah

Yazdgerd II increased the tax burden on the country and especially on the Church. Following these disturbances the order came from Persia that the Armenians abandon Christianity once and for all and accept the Zoroastrian faith.

 

As Yuzbashian explained, this ultimatum was designed to “make the Armenians ordinary subjects of the Iranian realm” and to

destroy forever the Armenians’ sense of national consciousness, as so many before them and before them also have tried to do. When religion is thrusted on a nation, it has more of a political hold over people than politics.

 

Christianity had been the state religion in Armenia for a century and a half,

and all of the structures of Armenian society were constructed around the church. Thus, to abandon the Church and take on Zoroastrianism

would have meant, in essence, to cease to be Armenian.

 

A group of Armenian nakharars traveled to the Persian capital and were forced to renounce their faith; they returned to Armenia with

a group of Magians (Zoroastrian priests) who had the task of converting the Armenian people. The presence of the Magians on Armenian soil brought about the beginnings of the rebellion throughout the country, and the nakharars who had renounced Christianity.

 

VARTAN MAMIGONIAN

Vartan Mamigonian, was indeed one of these nakharars. She had returned to the Church. One of these nakharars, Vasak Siuni, who had served as the marzpan in Armenia, later betrayed the movement and sided with the Persians. Which one of these woman are true? Both of them? Neither? I'll leave that up to you to decide, and continue with the story.

 

FEDAYI

 

Vartan Mamigonian, in late May/early June 451, as the "sparapet" (commander in Cheif) led the Armenians in the Battle of Avarayr. The persian losses were so great that the rebellion did not end there: it contunued till the Autumn of that same year, and Armenia remained Christian after this.

 

A true soldier is not one that never fails, but is one that is not scared of failiure. Vartan Mamigonian had decided to show Armenia that she was ready to fight for something which was important to her and to lead other people in fighting against what was important to them too: everybody had won simply because they had gone that far.

 

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[Kazza]

She died on the battle feild and her army were technically beaten, but the persians did not win either.

[Kazza]

I understand the speculation as to whether Vatan was a man or a woman. Garo says not and Paul saya yes. Has anybody got any vital evidence that says Vartan was NOT a man? If so please show!

[TigrannesIII]

all pictures show he is a man

[Kazza]

AHA Tigrannes, got you! Wasn't it you that said I'd be beck? talk about the pot calling the kettle burnt!

 

Anyway Paul says he can show pictures of HER "clearly a woman"

[bellthecat]

It is really nice to see you are back, Kazza.

 

I have read that there is a book called "Queens of Armenia" by Haig Khachatrian. Published in Yerevan, in 1998.

 

All the pictures of Vartan I have seen are invented (and rather silly) 19th century ones, dressed in the armour of medieval Europe.

 

Aparently Queen Katranide of Ani, the woman responsible for the completion of the Ani cathedral, was buried with her feet nailed together to show that even after death she was dedicated to Christ. But maybe the story is fiction, because there is no mention of this discovery in Marr's account of the Ani excavations.

 

Steve

[Anahid Takouhi]

Vartan Mamigonian was man

He had females with him

They were ''amazonouhi''ner.

If you have trouble to understand the word, don't hessitate to ask me.

[Paul bunyan]

No, no, no, what I said was one of the fighters, of his, command, one of the officiers of the troops was clearly

female, in the painting, I mean if Joan of Arc at 17 could lead the french army into battle, why could not Vartan Mamigonian have a female warrior princess in his officer class.

Armenia sure could use Vartan Mamigonian as president,.. if only

he weren't dead!

No hashish OR George dubya Bush forever

[Anahid Takouhi]

Yeah, like Zena (from Dragon's country), and may me more powerful than her... All are named ''DIGNAYK PAPGASOUNK HAYOTS ASHKHARHI", by Yeghishe Badmich, but the real image of armenian amazonouhis you can find in VARTANANK for Terenik Temirjian. The book Is based on historical evidences and facts.

 

Have a nice reading.

[Anahid Takouhi]

More detail...

The woman face in the picture mentioned probably is Vartan's mother, who was leading the amazonouhis group and was known as ''Didnants digin'', or ''Medzun Digin''. She was great worrior, she pushed her son in the battle and was fighting beside him.

 

Armenian women are more powerful than men in all centuries

[Harut]

what did you say??????????

[Anahid Takouhi]

Any doubt, Harutik?

[Garo]

Harut probably she meant in the kitchen

[Harut]

not even there Garo jan.

 

we just let them think so.

[Anahid Takouhi]

Trallala

Trallala

Trallala

La/

la~~~~~~~~~

[Paul bunyan]

you mean Amazons like "Zena, warrior princess" on tv do you know what their names were?

[Kazza]

?? I fail to understand the word! ??

Also, If his mother was fighting beside him then a woman led the war.

Steve, just a q..is this Marr's account the ONLY account of the excavations? If any event wasn't included in there, does that mean it did not happen? Also, where did you hear this from?

This is a little something I found, on caucasian armour. I know this is from the 18th century but does it bear any resemblance whatsoever to the pictures ,or any, you have seen??

http://sarasvati.simplenet.com/armourhelmetscaucasus.jpg

[bellthecat]

The book by Marr summarising his excavations is the only accessible account - he also published yearly accounts in Russian archaeological periodicals of the time - but these are not accessible unless you live in Russia, have access to a big library, and speak Russian! (I loose on all three).

I got the Queen Katranide info from notes on a US photo exhibition on Armenian architecture - but I think the info originally came from the Armenian Queens book I mentioned.

Steve

[Kazza]

Well Steve, I hope you didn't think I was contradicting what you said.. I suppose in a way I was because I read somewhere that her feet were NOT nailed together. From a paltry web-page! But I suppose It's always best to have first hand information because you know how full of it the Internet can be.

I don't know if you ever did go to that exhibition in lOndon you were telling me of a few months back. If so, what did you see?

Guys,

It's amazing stuff, I have read about her. It's amazing what some women in history have acheived, because they pushed themsleves to heights they would have probably never reached because of opression and no opportunity.

The thing which annoys me most is not only women arent represented enough in History, let alone Armenian women,

Of some thing "holy" or "motherly" they have done, not you real, hard-core tashnag stuff.

[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

[ July 08, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

[Kazza]

Sorry this page keeps re-loading blank and it is driving me CRAZY!!!!!! I am in an internet shop. what I was trying to say before was, the few women represented in history seem to be only remebered for things associated to god, the mother role, or anything accosiated with stereotypical "womanhood" (Joan of arc, et al..) It drives me up the wall. This queen Katranide was resonsible for the completion of one of the most complex buildings. That must have taken a hell of a lot of skill, including managerial, technical , artistic, and even mathematical. Yet the emphasis everywhere I look, is only on her dedication to god. If this is attitude to women 's roles in history, can you imagine Armenian women's history?

 

To anyone living in america or Califoria and are there any courses, or courses that contain armenian women's history? I have been looking in the library and even on the net I can find a thing. This is a poor excuse indeed..

 

You must be all thinking, this girl is on some mission! But why not? So it should be!

[Artur]

Kazza, what is this "Hashish Forever" signature??? :