vegetarians

[khodja]

I forgot to mention that vegans and vegetarians also eat nuts (pistachio, walnuts, etc)

[Azat]

Vegetarians consume

-Guinness for all the nutrients.

-Wine

-Beer

-Cognac

-Tequila

-Vodka

-And when you need some more calories you can eat Chocolate

 

Non vegetarians consume

-meat

-chicken

-fish

-snails

-frogs

-snake

-cow brain

-animal innards (haggis crap)

 

------------------

Now you tell me, what diet is more fun?

[Harut]

even though i don't have the lisence of an appliance, i eat anything that's eatable. especially when i'm hungry. though i don't eat much.

Hagarag, don't get on my way, i might eat you too.

[bellthecat]

Proved by some vegan fundamentalist fanatic I suppose. Very little of the worlds land is suitable for growing crops. Most, including most of Armenia, is only suitable for grazing animals.

 

As for polution - if you want to see polution then examine the chemical damage caused by intensive agricultural farming, or soil made sterile by salt leeching into it through the irrigation needed for agriculture, or the dried up rivers caused by all the water being diverted to crop production.

[KGrigory]

I'm thinking of becoming a vegetarian but I still have research to do in terms of whether it is healthier or not. My grandmother has been eating meat almost everyday of her life and she is 93 years old and is still healthy. But she grew up in Artsakh and not in the USA so I would guess the meat products there are more natural.

 

I have a question of whether vegetarians eat broth from soups that were made out of meats. And also if vegetarians eat artificial meat flavors like the ones in the noodle packets.

 

One final note, if being vegetarian was the best option then wouldn't have almost all the animals in nature evolved to be herbivores(vegetarians)?

[hasmiek]

you forgot to mention; vegan's don't wear leather...but i'm no vegan' i'm a lacto veggie. except sometimes i do eat eggs, from chickens from a friend of mine. from those animals i know that they are treated very well, and not stuffed in cages that are 12 by 12 inch and never see the daylight ever.

 

Before i became a vegetarian, we did the cutbackting, i wanted to stop eating meat wehn i was 8 or something, then my mom wouldn't let me, she thought i would miss some nutricions. So we made the deal that all of us didn't eat meat 3 days a week. But i respect people who do cutback their meat eating, the are aware of the problems there are in the world concuring the meat industry. I personally just couldn't do that.

 

The comparing animals with plants is pretty ignorant Sip, [didn't expect that from you !!]

Plants don't have a central nerve system, plants don't 'feel' and 'communicate' like animals do.

 

And finally, when i have kids i will initally not feed them meet, if they want to eat it when the are a bit older that's their choise, but they won't get it out of my hands.

 

[ March 19, 2002, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: hasmiek ]

[bellthecat]

Thank you thoth, for seeing that. Given the fanatic's blindness of the likes of hasmiek and hagarag I thought it pointless to try and clarify what I was saying.

 

But however blind they might be, they are as nothing compared to creeps like MosJan, Ararat-73 and highflyer that get their pathetic kicks from killing things. /cgi-bin/forum/ultim...c;f=13;t=000097 There is no perspective to understand these people. It's a nasty wake-up call to realise that there are really unpleasant sickos like these on this forum.

 

Steve

[Harut]

ok, let me get serious on this topic.

 

what is the reason for not consuming milk products? and egg?

animals don't get hurt while being milked. or chickens are not forced to lay an egg, it's natural.

what is the reason behind this? health?

 

thank you

 

and in general, what is the main reason behind becoming a vegetarian? health or animal care?

[khodja]

My initial impetus was health. My father was a basket case by 40 - he had advanced heart disease, age-onset diabetes, glaucoma. I did not want to end up that way. At 30 I became a vegetarian and at 40 a vegan. My road has since led me to appreciate the spiritual effects of this type of diet.

[THOTH]

Bellthecat -

 

Its funny to me that you refer to both vegetarians and hunters as fanatic at the same time - ussually one sees one group or the other as such. I don't see either as fanatics per se - though I can see one thinking that their behaviors are perhaps extreme.

 

I won't argue the pro-cons of vegetarianism - there certainly are many reasons why one becomes a vegetarian (and I have known some (almost Spock/Vulcan like) that would likely make anyone here seem very mainstream - have you ever heard of a macrobiotic diet?) - anyway - personaly - though I have great sympathy for the arguments against mass produced agri-food in general - I'm not sure I see the (afordable) alternatives (some of my vegan friends [perhaps rightly] see this issue quite differently) - certainly though many practices can be improved and/or eliminated. I also have sympathy for the poor defensless animals (ie don't like that they are killed & such - nor do I like some of the life & death cycle conditions) etc - though not enough to give up meat (though I did once, briefly, at a young age, for this reason).

 

And this, to some extent is why I have never hunted (for sport) - revulsion at taking life - besides the fact that it doesn't much interest me (as sport...though I can see why one would enjoy it...i don't play golf either - but feel the same way about it...LOL). I used to be of the mind to condemn hunters..but no longer (just some [really bonehead] hunters...the stories you hear....). Obviously endagered species should not be hunted and should be protected with extremely harsh penalties. Here in the Eastern US - with all predator species gone - deer (in particualr) and many vermin types of creatures have proliferated unabated. Often they are overpopulated to the point of starvation - and dangerous behaviors. Hunting is - and in my opinion should be considered - a viable alternative to control these populations. And while I still am not a fan of hunting per se - I can see its apeal to some and am less bothered by it then I usd to be. I certainly have partaken of my fair share of venison over the years...

 

SO I do think you are being rather harsh in your opinions and lableing these folks as fanatical. In general I don't like the idea of artificially limiting choices by blocking off one set of things and saying - I don't go there...but by and large I do not eat seafood....though its because I don't enjoy the taste (& to a lesser extent perhaps past allergies). However, I respect folks to make decisions for themselves. I agree concerning evangeliscizing type of behaviors...though I understand some of these folks believe in their choices with a passion - and also see other problems with the various mass market meat producing (and perhaps non-organic agribussiness in general) industries that are very real. Sure I don't like to be preached to - who does...but heh...anyway...to each their own.

[THOTH]

Harut -

 

I think some of the objections you are hearing concerning milk have to do with Cows milk - that does not process well in all folks (some would say in humans in general). Others may avoid milk products for other reasons I guess - though some do not - believeing somewhat as you have suggested.

 

There is an alternative to milk called soy milk - made from soybeans...doesn't apeal to me really - but its much better then it used to be.

 

I've actually had soysage (soy based sausage) that could have totally fooled me. I knew in advance what it was though (and still liked it quite a bit)...it wasn't so dry like most soy burgers are...

[Garo]

bellthecat I give you a warning for insulting other members and advice you to watch your language. If your recent posts that contain nothing but BS are intended to provoke another conflict in the forum then you are on the wrong way.

[Sip]

I admit I am not perfect My stomach is pretty much the biggest weakness I have. When it comes to my steak, pork chops, and grilled chicken with lemon and garlic sauce, somehow all my values and logic go out the door

 

I think cows, chickens, pigs, and fish are very dumb animals. I admit our actions look pretty horrible once we associate human attributes to those animals. But, I don't think they have the "awareness" levels that we humans have. Other heigher forms of life such as monkeys, dogs, whales, dolphines, and elephants show clear signs of "awareness", memory, learning, and advanced social behaviors. So I would think twice before hurting a whale or an elephant. But I don't particularly feel bad when eating a cow or a chicken. Although I would respect anyone's decision not to eat them (for whatever reason).

 

One of the reasons I am defensive about the subject is some strange claims made by hard-core "vegans" ... I was reading a report that claimed the gases produced by cows contributes a lot to global warming!!! I mean give me a break ... a simple volcano can probably produce much more poisonous and harmful gases than all cows could in 100 years!!!!

 

So for health, religeous, and resource "efficiency" reasons, I have no problems with being a vegetarian. As far as animal cruelty claims ... I am not sure. I don't think it's a big deal. But things like "Global Warming" issues, I seriously question the motivation behind those "reports".

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Garo:

bellthecat I give you a warning for insulting other members and advice you to watch your language. If your recent posts that contain nothing but BS are intended to provoke another conflict in the forum then you are on the wrong way.

---

Garo - i don't think he was meaning to insult individuals as much as express his disdain for hunting and that he thinks vegetarians who preach to others are being fanatical. By the same token then you should give hasmeik and hagarag warnings as they insinuate that those of us who eat meat are just stupid & such. Comon now - lighten up a bit...and sure perhaps we can ask bellthecat for a clarification (or even an apology...for tone)...but a warning? Too much IMO.

[MosJan]

HarutJan hear is one of the problems, the food ( CombiCerm) that chickens are faded to, it consist of not only vegetables and grains, it also has some intestines and other body parts of the animas, like, brains and tactical, extra fat that caw or the lab has in it's body that humans do not use or do not eat, you might ask whey are they doing this, will it's much easier for the chicken to gain extra weight. chicken absorbs the fat the way it is, part of the problems are diseases like med caw Disease was transfers to cows from ships or lamb, same way the same or the other diseases are transfers to chicken and pigs, since this two are eating most anything. for this reasons many are not using pig and chicken, and many of us are using "natural" food or waield meet.

 

using natural food is not the solution to disease, your risking even more, since this "natural for" or the vegetables are grown in manure, you need to wash this sort of vegetables really good, since some of the germs and infections can become a big problem.

 

same for the wailed game. you need to frizz the meet for atlist 10 days before consuming, you need to use Garlic, anions, and other disinfecteve ingredients wheel marinating. and most of all you need to know war to get this game meet or haw to transport.

 

see it's not only I like to bee healthy so many thinks that will make you not to eat meet.

 

MOvses

[Garo]

THOT show me where they have called other members stupied or creeps or sickos and I'll give them warnings too.

[Sip]

Wow, in the 10 minutes it took me to write a message, all hell broke lose! I am with Garo on this one. Peronal name calling and attacks are intolerable. Disagreeing and debate is fine ... but name calling and direct personal insult is clearly crossing the line ... (we all agreed to forum rules when signing up).

[THOTH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by KGrigory:

I have a question of whether vegetarians eat broth from soups that were made out of meats. And also if vegetarians eat artificial meat flavors like the ones in the noodle packets.

---

I think the answer (for most) would be no. Many/most/all? of my (many) vegetarian friends won't even eat many (or any) cheeses - though some types are OK (for some vegatarians) - has something to do with processing (rennet versus rennetless or some such as I recall).

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by KGrigory:

One final note, if being vegetarian was the best option then wouldn't have almost all the animals in nature evolved to be herbivores(vegetarians)?

---

It just goes to show you - balance in everything. For some being a herbavor is best, for other Omnivore - or what have you. And also I think that evolution is very often misunderstood - it is not so deterministic IMO - sometimes a lesser "solution" will make it for whatever reason (as long as it is not a total failure)...there is more of a luck element I think then is commonly thought.

 

[ March 19, 2002, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[Hyeflyer]

I guess if you want to call me and others that hunt and eat meat sikos ,creeps and such it is your perogitive to do so.It is simply a matter of personal choice.ANYTHING is good only in moderation.It doesnt matter if it is meat ,vegtables or dairy.It is called aa BALANCED diet.In the late 70's or very early 80's Cornell U did a study where the hooked up two tomatoe plants to lie detectors.They had one person walk in the room and smash and destroy one plant.Well to make it short and to the point,they had many people walk in yhe room and the equipmeny woul read flat line.When the one that smashed the plant walked in the room the lie detector went off the screen.So it seems from this study plants also have some type of feelings.I can hear my salad scream before I eat it.

[khodja]

BOTTOM LINE is "To each their own." But to tell an Armenian who is a vegetarian that they are not a real Armenian because they do not eat the Armenian meat dishes, smacks of fascism, a trait that some of our brethren possess to the maximum.

[hasmiek]

So, another word from me, the blind fanatic vegetarian! I do have to mention that none of my meat eating colleages and friend have called me that -maybe they are afraid to ??-so it can't be that bad...

 

first to answer KGrigory's questions;

I think mankind is supposed to eat meat, but just not that much. So the natural balance has gone to hell, by mankind opening this bio industry farms in which animals are treaded like shit (i believe i can say that). If you want to know more about it you can look it up on the internet. I visited a pig slaughterhause once...it is unimaginable.

 

Some people say that the animals are not aware of thes bad circomstances, but for example pigs are very smart animals, they see eachother dying there, and the know that they are going to die to (they warn eachother-prooved scientifly)...you can imagine the panic amongs the animals.

 

LAst year during all the meat -mout claw disease and pig pest- crisisess, i hoped that the industry would learn from their mistakes. YOu can't just make animals cannibals, and stack them up and let the shit over eachother! But that was pretty naive of me, it seems like no one even rembers what happened.

 

anyways, if you want, you don't immedeately become a veggie, just start cutting back on eating meat, after a while you see that you don't need it as much as you did before. And then you can concider quitting eating meat...

 

I personally do eat cheese and eggs, but i get that from a farmer, of which i know he treats his cows and goats very well. And you have special 'green shops' for this in europe, where they also sell meat that comes from animals that had a free and good life, the only (it;s pretty expencive though). I don't eat that meat because i just don't feel the need to eat meat.

[Harut]

thank you for your replies to me.

[Harut]

has any Armenian ever told you "you are not Armenian because you don't eat Armenian dishes"?

OR you assume (which you do quite lot) that they would do so?

 

thank you

[MosJan]

Don’t blow thinks out of their proportions - Vegetarians are nothing new to Armenians, I my self know at list 2 dozen vegetarians in Armenia, it’s not something new to Armenians, I also have a book that is being translated to English, it was printed in 1970s in Armenia. Yes some of the recopies are “barrowed” from others but most of thim are traditional Armenian dishes. We do have many different dishes that are truly vegetarian, some are forgotten, altered, new and different ingredients have been added, the bottom line is you can still have spinach, Aveluk, Shush, Sibex,

 

it’s only ridicules to say that your not Armenian if you do not eat meet.

[khodja]

Yes Harut, to my face and with an indignant look on their faces, close members of my family (interestingly only the conservative Republicans, not the moderate Republicans or the Democrats). They probably own stocks in cattle-ranching or McDonalds instead of Archer-Midland.