ARA BALIOZIAN: THE ARMENIAN EINSTEIN

[nairi]

El lav. Kartses te shat mets ban enk arel vor nor hima mer anoon@ ch@khaytarakenk.

[khodja]

Qristine,

 

If you have been raised within the Armenian community, you will be blind to the elements of the Armenian psyche that are detrimental.

 

First off we are very intolerant of those who are innovators. There is a fundamentalist element to Armenian groupthink.

 

When I visted Armenia a young Yerevantzi woman befiended me on the tour bus. I do not think she was aware of my true age. I think she found me attractive. When the conversation turned to food and I told her that I was a Vegan (a very strict vegetarian) she got up from the seat next to mine, stated that she does not approve of Armenians who give up their religion to become Hindus and did not speak to me during the remainder of the tour.

 

As for American Armenians, they are so hung up on pecuniary wealth. There is little respect for scholarship for the sake of scholarship, only how large a house and other material things it will bring you.

 

In my youth, whenever I proposed doing something novel during an Armenian committee meeting, I was shotdown. I will never forget the reaction I got whne I proposed to get Cher, Adrienne Barbeau and other Armenian movie stars to host an Armenian telethon. A group of Armenians ganged up on me, stating that Cher was a "fallen woman" and that Barbeau was only 1/2 Armenian.

 

I could go on and on but Baliozian is much more eloquent and much more thorough in delineating the dysfunctions of the Armenian community.

[THOTH]

I must confess I don't read Ara anymore either. Once I was (and still am I guess) a staunch defender of his - even if I think he is often as wrong as he is right (but who isn't?). I agree with the repetativeness accusation however (and many or the other critisisms of him...still "mostly harmless") - but more to the point (for me) is that I do not feel he is speaking to me (as an assimilated Armenian who doesn't exhibit the traits/attitudes he knocks against - etc). So to some degree what he is saying has only secondary relevance to me (at best).

 

I still think that a great deal of what he says is worthwhile and wish that those he rails against would/could take heed (but they won't...they will continue to live their myth, exhibit lack of foresight (and hindsight) and act not in accordance to the principals of the common good...aka according to Nathan Bridger etc)...still, we shouldn't overstate his "role" ...while I think he does serve a useful (and noble) purpose (fighting the "good fight" and all...) - I also think that Armenians even having someone who can and does say the things he does is a testement in and of itself (vis a vis other communities/nationalities where it would be unheard of to hear such critisim) - But I think Armenians need more in terms of innovated commited leadership, people with revolutionary ideas (and even just general awareness/aknowledgement of the problems) and most importantly people who can and will take positive action (for the good of the community/nation as a whole)...(they too exsist...but only in pockets it seems...)

[joseph]

Hagarag reading the history of your family i can see why you are so mixed up .

I am starting to feel your pain , serching for identity is not easy i hope you fined your identity one day or sooner , its not easy going to bed at night not knowing who you are .

[khodja]

Hovsep,

 

I am one of the few American-born Armenians of my generation who speak Armenian. I am immersed in Armenian history and know things that most Armenians would prefer not to know about our history. But I do not THINK like an Armenian. I was formed outside of the "camp." I am not confused about my Armenian identity, but VERY aware of it. I perceive it from a cultural and historical academic perspective that only a small percentage of Armenians posess. The rest of you have collective "myopia."

[QRISTINE]

Qristine,

 

If you have been raised within the Armenian community, you will be blind to the elements of the Armenian psyche that are detrimental.

 

First off we are very intolerant of those who are innovators. There is a fundamentalist element to Armenian groupthink.

 

When I visted Armenia a young Yerevantzi woman befiended me on the tour bus. I do not think she was aware of my true age. I think she found me attractive. When the conversation turned to food and I told her that I was a Vegan (a very strict vegetarian) she got up from the seat next to mine, stated that she does not approve of Armenians who give up their religion to become Hindus and did not speak to me during the remainder of the tour.

 

As for American Armenians, they are so hung up on pecuniary wealth. There is little respect for scholarship for the sake of scholarship, only how large a house and other material things it will bring you.

 

In my youth, whenever I proposed doing something novel during an Armenian committee meeting, I was shotdown. I will never forget the reaction I got whne I proposed to get Cher, Adrienne Barbeau and other Armenian movie stars to host an Armenian telethon. A group of Armenians ganged up on me, stating that Cher was a "fallen woman" and that Barbeau was only 1/2 Armenian.

 

I could go on and on but Baliozian is much more eloquent and much more thorough in delineating the dysfunctions of the Armenian community.

 

Hagarak,

So did you converted your religion to Hindu? Maybe she was surprised to see Armenian with a different religion (lol) Well what I would suggest is that you can not compare one person with entire nation. There are so many Hindus, Africans, Russians, etc... who also do not approve people who give up their own religion for some other religions one thing you have to except is that not everyone on this world you meet is going to like you. That is immposibility. Hagarak I was raised in both invoirments in Armenian community and American, so my camparison is from my own experience.

[khodja]

Qristine,

 

No I did not change my religion to Hindu, the young woman ASSUMED that since I was vegetarian that I was Hindu.

 

The only member in my family that was ever Loosavorchagan was my paternal grandmother. She changed to Armenian Catholic when she married my grandfather in 1902, when she was just 15 years of age. My mother's family were Catholic. My parents bolted the Catholic Church when I was 7, and raised us as Protestants. I am interested in Eastern religions but NEVER changed my religion.

 

Baliozian is also a Catholic Armenian.

[sen_Vahan]

hakarak,

 

If one says A you will say B, if I say B you will say A. Because you are HAKARAK

Ed erevum e, du eli mrsel es gisher'

Tsazkvi, te che kokordd ksksi zaval tapak-tapak xoseluz

[joseph]

Ara and Hagarag I think you guys fall in love every time you look in the miror spcialy you Hagarag from the way you alwayes talk about your looks and hair color and your skin . I think i met the woman that did not blieve that you were that old she said to me,

Doooont Blieeeeeeve Hiiiiiim .

What they call that kined of love " NARXISME " I hope I got the wright word .

[Accelerated]

LMAO!

 

You crack me up sometimes!

[Harut]

hagarag,

enough is enough.

just who the hell are you to state such thing?!

your arogant and pathatic comments have really started sickening me.

just how many Armenians have you met in your life? just how many Armenians have you spoken to in your life?

oh, i know, a handful of opportunitist disaporians like yourself, who were more successful than you, and number of twisted-minded relatives of yours.

and you construct an opinion about a whole nation based on that?

just how long have you lived among Armenians? just how long have you lived in the situation that most of the Armenians live in? just how long have you lived with the concerns that Armenians have? (besides the recognition of the Genocide (not really a big concern for most of the Armenians), which we know why you want to happen)

just what do you know about the Armenian psyche?

nothing.

(beside those you read in ara's books)

you pick and choose the worst things and throw them on our face, as though that's all we've got.

 

it just really sickens me, when people come out of hole in a wall, unaware of anything (beside things you knew from a handful of opportunitist disaporians like yourself, who were more successful than you, and number of twisted-minded relatives of yours), and make comments like this one.

[khodja]

Harut,

 

You are suffering from an "IMMERSION" problem. Not "EMERZIAN but "IMMERSION." It is like a small child in a bathtub whose mother has dunked the child under the level of the water. The child can not see anything but the water itself. After the bathtub has been drained, a dirty line appears around the sides of the bathub.

 

I have been around thousands of Armenians all my life, of all persuasions. Are you aware of what "Hai Horoms" are. Do you know of the Tondaketsi? Did you know that the Bagratunis were Jews, the Mamikonians Chinese and other kings were Assyrians, etc. Did you know that the Cathar movement in France, brutally put down by the Pope was initiated by Armenian settlers?

 

THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO DO NOT SEE.

[joseph]

Mr. Hagarag our nation experiansed your likes through out its history .

Blieve me we will be here long time after you are gone .

Matter fact we will be hear untill the second comming of JESUS .

Who cares if the Bagrtunis were born jews or the Mamikonians born chinese or assyrians . they died Armenians , oposit you who is ashamed of your Armenian side of your family , never experiansed bieng full bloded Armenian , can you tell us witch side of your family you are most comfortable with .

worse thing you can be " man without identity "

[khodja]

Hovsep,

 

What a falsely rosy picture you paint.

 

Must I remind you that 9/10 of our nation is in enemy hands, and that this 9/10 has been denuded of Armenians? If you count the regions of Azerbaijan that have been lost to Armenians (areas around Julfa) it is more than 9/10 of our nation that has been lost.

 

Next look to the multitudes of Poles, Bulgarians, Greeks, French, etc. who are descendants of Armenians and yet do not know it and you will see how much more has been lost. Gregory Peck vehemently falsely denies that his grandfather was an Armenian Catholic fom England. Why is this so? Dikran Kouyoumjian (Michael Arlen, Sr.) once stated that "Who would admit to being Armenian, if it were not so?"

 

When my cousin visited the vilayet of present-day Turkey that her great-grandparents virtually owned and she was stupid enough to inform the Turkish guide as to which grand house had belonged to her grandparents, he spit on her.

 

We need more thinking like Baliozians' and less thinking like the majority of Armenians who have made a mess of our once grand nation.

[Harut]

i pity you, hagarag.

[joseph]

Harut jan more than that he needs Armenian blood transfusion would you donate some of yours to him maybe its too late .

He needs a complete transformation . The poor guy dosn't know who he is , I would not live my life like him not knowing what race I belong to .

[QRISTINE]

Ara and Hagarak

 

Well I truly do not know what to say after all, it is heart felting to see people like you who would criticize it’s own nation as I mentioned once we can see all good and bad in any other nations, countries, religion etc... Let me illustrate my point by giving you a true life example. I have a coworker who is very heavy, and most of the people in community were making comments about her wieght, but she always stood for her herself. And the amazing part is right now, no one of us considers her heavy person anymore because she did not let other’s to get on her,( it does not mean she closed our eyes and became a skinny person. No! but what she basically did she made other’s to see that there were so many heavy people in other places as well) , same comes for the nation part if we start criticizing our own people, culture etc.. then do not expect others stay calm. Aren’t there any heavy people in any other countries? Same comes to the nationality part aren’t there good and bad in other countries? I only gave you this example, but same comes for being tall or short, having ugly face etc….. you can find in any other courtiers as well. Ara and Hagarak why would you look at Armenians from Turkish perspective?

 

So my point is if you as an Armenian start criticizing your own nation then do not expect others see your people, language etc.. in a positive ways. I am not saying we are perfect, but if criticism is so good then why don’t we start from other countries and leave Armenians alone.

[Stormig]

I didn't understand a thing. What do nationalities have to do with being obese? One is about prejudices and jeering, the other is about constructive self-criticism (or it should be if it is not). And there's no point in criticizing other countries if others are going to be criticizing yours - it's called "being nosy" and will not lead to improvement if, for the sake of having practice in showing your country nicely to others, you overlook your flaws!

And you're a teacher?

[Stormig]

Looky that arrogance.

Sweetie, you don't know me. I'll refrain from making further comments.

[Stormig]

As for the topic itself - I don't like this bombastic "bomb" dropped by Hagarag. It's sensationalist and the same old mantra. Give direction, for a change, or else shut up instead of spelling the same prophecies for the umpteenth time. Dream up a project, write an essay instead of a stink bomb, something...

[vava]

I understand your point (i think), but what is wrong with a little self-critisism?

 

Take the following example:

If I am a football player, and my coach says 'you don't run as fast as the other players', I better heed his advice and train much harder in order to run as fast, if not faster, than the others.

 

I cannot simply pretend that my running ability is just fine, and assume that it is the other players who have a problem. No, I shall get kicked off the team!

 

If I wish to improve my skills as a football player, I have a duty to analyse my abilities, identify my weaknesses and develop a strategy to improve areas of my game that are less than adequate.

 

So, I believe that a little bit of constructive critisism is a good thing - but that's the key: as long as it is constructive. For that matter, I don't think anyone here - including Hagarak - has ever said that we Armenians are ALL BAD. Nobody is looking at us through 'Turkish' perspective.

 

We must look at the intent of these comments. They are for our collective benefit! So that we can all identify/improve our areas of weakness together!

[vava]

Stromy, You're probably right - but isn't it sad that it takes a 'bombastic "bomb"' in order to make people perk-up and pay attention?

[Stormig]

Does it, now? But then what is the outcome? All along, I have been reading this thread silently, hoping someone would put something into perspective, instead of "my relatives," "my wife," "my coworker," "the Republicans" blah blah blah.

Somebody is wailing about something - constantly, consistently - but to what end? With some people, I get the feeling that they're posting the same post over and over.

[Stormig]

Also - I plain dislike this thing of Hagarag's - "I know things you don't know, don't want to know, listen to me to learn things your mamma didn't tell you about!"

[MosJan]

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