as i see it - Pt. III

[ara baliozian]

Ara, is there any certain way to give a universal definition of what is good and what is evil? Something may seem very good but turn out to be evil, and vice versa. Our knowledge is too limited to know all.

Sasun:

when asked to define good and evil (according to a story by C.G. Jung) an African tribal chief once said:

"When i steal my enemy's wife, it's good.

When he steals mine, it's bad."

To combat this type of self-centered barbarism,

all nations have developed laws.

Individuals have also developed a faculty known as a conscience.

You cannot define conscience

to someone who doesn't have any

or to a fanatic who is convinced to murder innocent civilians in the name of Allah is good.

But these are extreme cases.

More often than not, the average law-abiding citizen knows that to kill, steal, plunder, and lie are bad.....

 

It is dangerous to say or imply that until we have clear-cut definitions of good and evil we should give up discriminating one from the other. This type of confusion or procrastination benefits only the barbarians among us.

[ara baliozian]

About the Lord's Prayer, if you look at it in its entirety you can't identify God with devil. That particular line means to me that God is omnipotent, He can lead to temptation, He can also protect us from temptation.

i am not doing the identifying;

simply expounding the development of the idea of god

from its primitive origins... some traces of which continue to be present today.

why is it that man still thinks it is necessary for him to remind God not to lead us into temptation?

it seems to me the height of redundance...not to say absurdity.....

[ara baliozian]

My only point is just because a bomb is packaged in the form of a book doesn't make it a book! But at the end who's to say ... there were those who considered the spherical earth theory to be a "bomb"

exactly!

and they were the ones who burned books and witches and anyone who dared to question their authority. when it comes to book-burning, fear the hooligans who have assumed the role of leaders of men or representatives of god on earth. they are the most dangerous hooligans of all.........

[Sasun]

why is it that man still thinks it is necessary for him to remind God not to lead us into temptation?

it seems to me the height of redundance...not to say absurdity.....

That is the difference between atheists and believers, again the question is does God exist? If yes, then the prayer makes a lot of sense.

My personal answer: if we think thoroughly and sincerely, there are many-many things that we simply don't know the right answer, and these things are essential for us. "God" is the name of the right answer, and giving in to temptation is the wrong answer.

In other words, lets say that we never heard of God or temptation as concepts. We are having a lot of problems in finding answers that affect our lives, others lives, etc - vital questions. Then if we assume that there are right answers, this is equivalent to saying that there is God. If so we will search for the right answers.

Hope this makes sense. This is a sort of impersonal way of understanding God. But for me God is much more than this.

 

One example of a question that we don't know the right answer, in my opinion, is the question of abortion, if you are following there is a thread on this topic. This seems to me the type of question that no matter what you say always leaves a question.

[ara baliozian]

Wednesday, October 22, 2003

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If God exists, surely He must be against those who dare to speak in His name if only because they contradict one another.

*

Some of my readers insult me because they think I am wrong and they are infallible. I may be wrong but can they be infallible? And if they are wrong in thinking they are infallible, can they be right in anything else?

*

Emerson once observed that there is nothing wrong in being misunderstood. Everyone is misunderstood, even the greatest among us - beginning with Socrates, Jesus, and Galileo. His conclusion: "To be great is to be misunderstood."

*

Why should we be surprised if those who support our bosses, bishops and benefactors speak like bullies and hooligans?

*

"Governments need both shepherds and butchers," according to Voltaire. It has been our destiny to be led by our shepherds into the hands of butchers.

*

It happens more and more frequently now: those who insult me publicly apologize privately. There is a French saying: "He who can kiss can bite." I suppose the opposite is also true. My present enemies are my future friends.

*

An honest man will invariably succeed in uniting all the crooks and charlatans against himself.

*

My answer to those who accuse me of hating Armenians: "If you love flowers you must hate weeds."

*

When we speak of loving Armenia, what do we really mean? Loving its rivers, mountains and valleys? Loving its regime and justice system? Loving its literature and culture? If the latter, can we also love those who silenced, starved and betrayed our ablest writers to the enemy?

*

If the three Musketeers had been Armenian, two of them would have ganged up and alienated the third, and shortly thereafter one of them would have betrayed the other to the enemy.

*

In my efforts to expose prejudices sometimes I succeed only in reinforcing them. The road to hell, it is said, is paved with good intentions. What about the road to heaven? Perhaps there is no such road because "the kingdom of God is within you."

*

The first nation to accept Christianity? To accept it: nothing easier. To practice it: a different story. What kind of Christians are we if we don't forgive those who trespass against us? Or if we divide and subdivide ourselves knowing full well that a house divided against itself cannot stand. Or if we allow the blind to lead us into the ditch?

*

Once recently when I used the word hooliganism, one of our hooligans rose to his own defense by explaining there are two kinds of hooliganism: short-term and long-term, and needless to add, he accused me of long-term hooliganism. As the French are fond of saying: "This may be as clear as daylight but it requires some very serious thinking." Who is to say if this is not the kind of translucent sophistry that got us massacred?

*

Armenian saying: "Think like the minority, speak like the majority." But is this possible in an environment whose minority has been silenced and alienated by its majority?

*

Some of my readers hate me because I criticize Armenians. But everyone in life is criticized: politicians, bureaucrats, generals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, teachers, even writers. Are we then beyond criticism? I assume the only possible answer to that question is: "No, but your criticism is unfair." To which I can only say: Have you ever heard an Armenian say: "I was criticized fairly?" Even serial killers, after a lengthy trial and a guilty verdict by a jury of their peers, will proclaim their innocence.

[ara baliozian]

That is the difference between atheists and believers, again the question is does God exist? If yes, then the prayer makes a lot of sense.

Sasun:

speaking of god, it would be worth your time to reflect on the following:

man cannot create a worm but he has created ten thousand gods.

[sev-mard]

Ara-jan,

 

Your post on the 24th page was fire! Nice writing and thoughts. I'll have to read up on more of your philosophies to see if i'm next on your bandwagon.

 

peace

Edited October 22, 2003 by sev-mard

[Sasun]

Sasun:

speaking of god, it would be worth your time to reflect on the following:

man cannot create a worm but he has created ten thousand gods.

I am not sure what you mean. Worm is a physical being, God is not. By "creating God" I understand understanding, imaging, having a certain knowledge of God. Worm is just a worm, we may or may not one day create/reproduce a worm from scratch. But we can never create God per se. I wouldn't make such a comparison.

 

One can imagine zillions of images/things of God, that would be pure imagination. One could also meditate and pray to attain a real knowledge of God, that's an entirely different thing. Doubting that God exist is a very easy task, all one needs is mind, and I mean any mind. Knowing God, on the other hand, is a very diffucult task. One needs to silence the imprerfect mind and "listen" to the soul that has infinite knowledge. To do that one needs to have faith. "Faith" could be imagination, superstition, mind's tricks, etc. This is not the useful type of faith. One could also have soul's foreknowledge, that is the real faith. If you mix all that appears faith in one bag, that is a mistake. There is a true spirituality, and there are all kinds of things that seem to be spirituality but are not. (these are often found in religious doctrines, fanatical concepts, etc you know what I mean, things that are often criticized).

Anyway, I added this paragraph to support my first paragraph.

[Sasun]

I came accross to this quote by Frederick Langbridge:

"Two men look out through the same bars:

one sees the mud, and one sees the stars."

[ara baliozian]

Friday, October 24, 2003

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Repeated nonsense is the main ingredient in all primitive incantations as well as modern propaganda.

*

Where ignorance is bliss, wisdom will be a curse.

*

To those who preach Armenianism and practice Ottomanism, I say: "You can't fool all the people all the time if you speak with a forked tongue."

*

I see very little progress in the conduct of our affairs. If we have advanced it has been from building castles in the air to building sand castled on the beach at low tide.

*

Armenians are difficult to understand because they need not understanding but flattery.

*

Samuel Johnson: "I have found you an argument; I am not obliged to find you an understanding."

*

Great nations behave like gangsters, and small nations like prostitutes - but prostitutes who brag about their virginity.

*

To an authentic Christian all men are brothers. A Christian who divides mankind into factions - such as heretics and infidels - and reserves for himself a privileged position at the right hand of God, is a Christian who cannot tell the difference between God and the Devil.

*

"A starving population, an absentee aristocracy, and the weakest executive in the world." This is not a present-day assessment of Armenia but a quotation from a speech on Ireland delivered in the House of Commons on 16 February 1844 by Benjamin Disraeli (1804-81). Here is another assessment of Ireland by one of its greatest writers - James Joyce (1882-1941): "Ireland is the old sow [mama pig] that eats her farrow [baby pigs]." Which is reminiscent of Zarian's final verdict on his fellow countrymen: "Armenians survive by cannibalizing one another."

*

A mongoose's idea of fast food is a live cobra.

*

Truth doesn't need propagandists. Throw it out the door and it will come in through the window. Throw it out the window and it will come down the chimney and kick your ass.

*

Last week I received an e-mail from a Turk so mean, nasty and rude that he sounded like one of my former Armenian friends.

*

Whenever an Armenian academic wants to make a name for himself he produces a book on the Genocide. Even non-historians have now found in our tragedy a sure source of income. Our Genocide has opened shop and is doing brisk business.

*

A fail-safe formula for failure: Trying to solve today's problems with yesterday's slogans.

*

Whenever one of our charlatans speaks in the name of Armenians, Armenia, or Armenian identify and culture, I am reminded of Louis XIV's dictum "I am the State," and the fact that shortly thereafter one of his successors was beheaded.

*

To those who say, "Our situation is tough and our problems complex," I say: In time of peace and prosperity anyone can be a leader.

*

We love with our heart but we hate with our intestines.

*

There are men of action and men of contemplation. To qualify as a man of action it is necessary to be a killer.

*

I was born and raised in a Greek slum. I now live in a Canadian slum. I cannot qualify as an ivory-tower idealist. If anything, I am a gutter idealist.

*

To those of my readers who see in me an enemy of the nation, I say: When a paranoiac sheep looks at another sheep or even at a reflection of himself in the mirror, she will see not another sheep but a wolf in sheep's clothing.

*

God knew that if he planted an apple tree in the Garden of Eden, Adam will want to pluck it, but He went ahead and planted it anyway, perhaps because He also knew that theologians would be unanimous in blaming man's fall not on Him but on Adam.

*

I am a pessimist who works like an optimist. I cast bread upon the waters and pearls before swine even after I have seen the writing on the wall.

*

To those among us who preach Christian values, may I remind them that they cannot love their enemy and hate their brother.

*

We are fast learners and slow forgetters. From the Turks we learned Ottomanism and from the Soviets Stalinism. Progress for us means going back and recapturing our original identity.

*

There are those who think the only way to cure their inferiority complex is by asserting a phony superiority. I know East-Armenians who look down on West-Armenians because they don't speak East-Armenian. What kind of superiority is it that needs to degrade and alienate half the nation?

*

In the Diaspora we celebrate the anniversary of Armenia's independence. But there are Armenians in the Homeland who believe that should be a day of lamentation.

*

After insulting me a reader tells me he feels sorry for me. If I were a blind beggar he would probably express his compassion by spitting on me. If, on the other hand, a hooligan were to accept his identity as a hooligan, he would cease to be a hooligan.

*

We love to praise dead translators and bury living ones.

[ara baliozian]

But we can never create God per se. I wouldn't make such a comparison.

.

to say that is to ignore the past and all those who were sure they had come face to face with God.

 

The idea of God!

what could be nobler?

Men who speak in His name and behave like swine?

what could be more reprehensible!!!!!

[Sasun]

to say that is to ignore the past and all those who were sure they had come face to face with God.

There are all kinds of people who can claim all kinds of things, I wouldn't worry about them.

 

The idea of God!

what could be nobler?

 

Well, I would add the reality of God also.

 

Men who speak in His name and behave like swine?

what could be more reprehensible!!!!!

 

Yes, but what about those who do now behave like swine? There are many normal people.

[Sasun]

To those among us who preach Christian values, may I remind them that they cannot love their enemy and hate their brother.

I strongly agree. Christianity is universal love towards everyone, be it a friend or enemy. If one loves his enemy and hates his brother as enemy that has nothing to do with Christian values, but rather politics, foolishness, betrayal, but never Christianity.

[ara baliozian]

Saturday, October 25, 2003

****************************

When I speak of Armenian identity I have in mind not a generalized abstraction or ghostly emanation open to different perspectives, conclusions and theories; but that very specific ensemble of forces that have shaped our past and are now busy shaping our destiny as a nation: an identity that is full of unresolved inner conflicts and contradictions; an identity that by dividing, subdividing and demoralizing the nation has made of us perennial victims; an identity, moreover, that in Raffi's words, is branded by treason, betrayal and collaboration with the enemy.

*

When a lie is adopted by a power structure, it becomes propaganda. It is not easy exposing such a lie because it means (a) contradicting all those who have been brainwashed by it, and ( incurring the wrath of the power structure.

*

You cannot judge a man by his words but by his actions. Likewise, you cannot judge a nation by its propaganda or the verbiage of its speechifiers and sermonizers, but by its history - and its history as written by an objective outsider as opposed to historians who enjoy the support of a specific ideology, religion, or nationality.

*

Nothing a regime, an ideology or a religion says can be the whole truth. At best, it will be a fraction of the truth (which happens to be one definition of propaganda=a fraction of the truth).

*

To write only what your readers want to read is not writing but guessing.

*

Where there is a public library, even a pauper can read like a millionaire.

*

There is freedom in our homeland - freedom for the few to prosper and freedom for the many to either starve or emigrate.

*

An authentic Christian is recognized by his way of life and not by his verbal vitriol against those who have not yet seen the light.

*

What's the use of knowing the law if the judge is corrupt?

*

Life is hell? But if life were heaven, people would be so scared of death that they would commit suicide.

*

When today's hooligans grow old, younger hooligans will insult them. I speak from experience - having engaged in hooliganism when young.

*

If God is love, why is it that those who speak in His name spout hatred?

*

Why is it that reasonable men see nothing inconsistent in speaking in the name of God and doing the Devil's work?

*

A truth may lead you to another truth but a lie will lead you only to a bigger lie.

*

To be Christian does not mean to love only the loveable; even heathens can do that.

*

The only way to survive as an Armenian among Armenians is to be more like a Turk.

*

Two brains, it is said, are better than one; but if the two are Armenian, the result will be paralysis.

*

Behind every insult spat in my direction I sense the presence of another unspoken insult against our collective identity: "If he is an Armenian writing for Armenians, he can't be worth a sh**!"

*

You can take a man out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of a man. A familiar saying that. The same applies to the jungles of the Ottoman Empire and the USSR. Hence the paradox of the Armenian who even as he preached a religion of love and compassion discharges Ottoman intolerance and Stalinist terror; or Armenians whose words and sentiments are professedly inspired by God but whose actions are driven by the Devil.

*

Lies are more popular than truth because for every truth there are ten thousand lies and among the ten thousand we can always pick one or more that will be more flattering to our vanity.

[ara baliozian]

I strongly agree. Christianity is universal love towards everyone, be it a friend or enemy. If one loves his enemy and hates his brother as enemy that has nothing to do with Christian values, but rather politics, foolishness, betrayal, but never Christianity.

how many christians do you know who practice universal love?

how many armenians?......

[ara baliozian]

Well, I would add the reality of God also.

perhaps we should make a distinction here about God and organized religions:

The idea or the reality of God, if you prefer, because ideas can be even more real than reality -- existed long before religions. Priests and mullahs simply exploit it to their advantage -- power, privilege....

 

You may be familiar with Voltaire's dictum: "Since it was a religious war, there were no survivors."

 

Voltaire, by the way, was not an atheist but a deist. he believed in the reality of God but he also believed that God does not get involved in human affairs.

[Sasun]

perhaps we should make a distinction here about God and organized religions:

That's a good idea

 

The idea or the reality of God, if you prefer, because ideas can be even more real than reality -- existed long before religions. Priests and mullahs simply exploit it to their advantage -- power, privilege....

 

I think its a common behavior. It is true not only for religions and priests, mullahs. The same priests and mullahs, had they not been in religion, would be in some other type of ignorant activity.

 

Voltaire, by the way, was not an atheist but a deist. he believed in the reality of God but he also believed that God does not get involved in human affairs.

 

I believe God does not directly interfere in human affairs, but is certainly present everywhere, including human affairs. However, most of the time He just tolerates and allows our blunders, sins, ignorance out of infinite compassion. Some mullahs and priests, of course, take advantage of this and take divine justice in their hands according to their ignorance and the sense of right and wrong. The rest we know very well...

 

how many christians do you know who practice universal love?

how many armenians?......

Like Gurdjeff said, one can only strive to be a good Christian. And there are those few who do strive most sincerely to be good Christians.

[MJ]

Voltaire, by the way, was not an atheist but a deist. he believed in the reality of God but he also believed that God does not get involved in human affairs.

As a side note, Voltaire's famous quote

 

"If God did not exist, people would have invented Him,"

 

is one of the most peculiarly misinterpreted ones throughout history. It is commonly interpreted as a testimony of Voltaire being an atheist. In fact, if we were to judge just on the basis of this quote, it would imply quite the opposite.

[axel]

perhaps we should make a distinction here about God and organized religions

 

Well obviously this distinction is only acceptable to a non-follower. But I don't want to start (yet again) a sterile discussion with secular thinkers or libre-penseurs.

 

I just want to add a few things regarding Voltaire.

 

Deism is simply an intellectual stand, nothing more, basically admitting the existence of God as a principle. Obviously, it has nothing to do with Faith, it is areligious.

 

When Voltaire states "si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer", it is precisely because he considers God as a way of maintaining social order. He adds in his Dictionnaire philosophique: "Philosophez tant qu'il vous plaira entre vous mais gardez vous d'exécuter ce concert devant le vulgaire ignorant et brutal. Si vous avez une bourgade à gouverner, il faut qu'elle est une religion" (if you have a city to rule, it has to have a religion).

 

He therefore falls into the category of people who see religion as a tool of earthly power.

 

Considering this, Ara's gratuitous generalization about "priests and mullahs" followed by a Voltaire's dictum is quite laughable. Such people, if they exist (actually it is an established fact that there are atheists/freemasons among clergymen), precisely share the views of such "philosophers". Btw, generalization is an anti-intellectual attitude. It is to be related with that of the worse ideologists, the bolsheviks or the nazis. One should be vigilant enough not to use the very means of the "hooligans" one so vehemently denounces.

 

PS for Ara: your latest posts are plagued with sophisms. Great Job. True, "it is easier to get into a habit than out of one" (Naïri*)

 

* the misunderstood genius who misunderstands herself

Edited October 25, 2003 by axel

[ara baliozian]

Monday, October 27, 2003

***************************

Our partisan ideologues think (if you will forgive the overstatement) they are the brains of the people. But in reality, they are only the brains of the brainwashed, that is to say, the brainless.

*

If a Turk hates like a Turk, he is only a Turk. But if an Armenian hates like a Turk, is he not worse than a Turk? In like manner, if a Christian hates like a heathen, is he not worse than a heathen?

*

To our critics of the U.S. I say: Before we criticize empires we should try to understand them in order to minimize the damage they may inflict on us. Had we adopted this stance at the turn of the century, we would have avoided being massacred.

*

The aim of criticism is to usher in reforms. It is not and should not be an exercise in one-upmanship. It follows, before we try to reform the White House or the State Department, we should make an effort to reform our parish or community center.

*

An enhanced understanding may save lives; blind action, by contrast, may lead to massacre.

*

A believer uses his belief system to judge his fellow men. A skeptic uses his common sense, sometimes even his common decency. You may now guess who will be more merciful towards transgressors.

*

Before a visit to the doctor, ask yourself: What if he finds something wrong with you and he is mistaken?

*

Have I been barking up the wrong tree? Is that possible in a desert devoid of all vegetation?

*

There is a light in every authentic man of faith that even he cannot extinguish; neither can a holier-than-thou phony illuminate the darkness in anyone's soul, including his own.

*

To those who say there are no universally accepted definitions of good and evil, I say: You don't have to be a lawyer to know what's criminal or, after committing a criminal act, to plead not guilty on grounds of ignorance of the law.

*

It never pays to lament, because if you do, everyone around you will prove to his own satisfaction that he has more reasons to lament than you. As a result, instead of sympathy you will get scorn for being a self-centered, spineless crybaby. Which may explain why the result of all our collective lamentations so far has been one or at most two crocodile tears that have not resurrected a single victim, nor have they annexed a single inch of soil to our homeland.

*

It is a symptom of megalomania run riot to think that by insulting a writer you may succeed in silencing him.

*

On the radio early this morning I heard about a video game for children called "How to Build a Civilization," and I couldn't help reflecting that our best and brightest flunked twice on "How to Survive Barbarism," - first time in the Ottoman Empire, second time in the USSR; and some would add, they haven't been doing a brilliant job in the U.S. either -- judging by the number of those who have opted for assimilation.

*

Before you say or do anything, ask yourself: Will it make me a better human being? Can asserting my moral or intellectual superiority make me morally and intellectually superior?

*

We are not equipped to understand imperial powers. We need to be re-educated. The question is: Can you educate someone who is convinced he is smart, he knows all he needs to know, he knows better, he sits at the right hand of God, and he has now taken upon himself to re-educate the world in the ways of the world?

[ara baliozian]

Considering this, Ara's gratuitous generalization...

 

your latest posts are plagued with sophisms.

i am spilling my guts out here!

[ara baliozian]

I believe God does not directly interfere in human affairs, but is certainly present everywhere, including human affairs.

well, in that case, consider the following question by Dostoevsky:

 

I will now paraphrase:

 

Suppose you were to create a perfect world at the cost of a single child being raped and murdered. Would you do it?

[ara baliozian]

generalization is an anti-intellectual attitude. It is to be related with that of the worse ideologists, the bolsheviks or the nazis. One should be vigilant enough not to use the very means of the "hooligans" one so vehemently denounces.

every word, every abstraction, every idea is a generalization.

i dare you to formulate a single argument

without the use of generalizations.

[ara baliozian]

Deism is simply an intellectual stand, nothing more, basically admitting the existence of God as a principle. Obviously, it has nothing to do with Faith, it is areligious.

what's wrong with being areligious or even anti-organized religious...if you consider their history and add up all their crimes?

[Sasun]

well, in that case, consider the following question by Dostoevsky:

 

I will now paraphrase:

 

Suppose you were to create a perfect world at the cost of a single child being raped and murdered. Would you do it?

A quick answer: no, I wouldn't do it. It would not be a perfect world in such a case (assuming a perfect world can be created by men just like that). But what is the relation of your question to God interfering in human affairs? I am in hurry now to think about, I will come back to this later.