Guest Fadi Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 ... People know me here, and know how I think of things(many times stupid things) that one can never have imaginated... Yesterday night I was thinking of something that never gave me that much fear before. Imagine guy's, I realised that I would fear more the destruction of earth, then losing my own life. O.K... I know people here are telling to themselves: "Now with what the hell Domino came up this time" Think about it guys, you have no family, no beloved one, and you decide to go on space with a space ship that gravity has no effect in, then you see by your own eyes, Planet Earth revolution around the Sun speed start slowing down and it aproches a little the Sun, and Woooppp... and stop its revolution and is attracted in the Sun... Have anyone thinked of that ? Is that not the most threatning scene that one could see from his own eyes ? Even more threatning then your own eyes ? Thinking of it, I started to fear about this, thinking that one day in some billions of years, when the Sun thermonuclair reaction will stop, after the combustion of the "H" to the point that "He" will stop the reaction, taking an important masses of the Sun. Then the Sun will stop shining, a kind of implosion, and as a second effect, expension taking earth with him. Have someone had that fear, or thinked about this before ? There will not be humans when that will happen, but still, its our Earth, everything, our society, what we consider "nature" all our conception of the Universe started on this little blue Planet called Earth, and in a far future, this planet that permited our existance, that created humanity, life, our nature... will just disapear... [ November 02, 2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Domino ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 Have you seen Star Trek the next generation? Have you seen how the Borg operarte? Sure that is Science Fiction but I think that's where we are headed eventually. Just imagine ... you can fit the "brain" of all humans into a cube (I imagine it to be less than a square meter in size)... all fully interconnected ... with a BIG difference ... each has it's own individuality inside the cube. Existence of humans moved from the physical level into the virtual level !!! Theyn we shoot this cube into space and continue our existance virtually, much like in the movie Matrix (except none of that crappy sci-fi about the computer controlling things ...) No, there will be real heirarchies, real "people" in control, real democracy, things will go on much like in real life. You will learn, you will socialize, you will contribute to knowledge, and you will die and be replaced by your offsprings who will be better than you. All within this 1-cubic meter cube I can't wait for that day. No MORE physical suffering!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Sip - I wonder if you understand fully what it is to be human? Without suffering - or at least without adversity - there is no growth - and often no reason to persevere. I for one don't wish for a Borg type of future (no individuality etc) - though in many ways I do agree we are heading that direction (man-machine interface)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Domino - OK - I will mourne with you...our 5 minutes of silence are up - now lets move on. Look - all you say is true - but it is so far in the future - beyond our real comprhension etc. And by then we might be able to move it to some other sysytem - and perserve its remneent s etc - whatever is left that is - after we use and abuse it through the milenia...oh and maybe it won't be us...do you thinsk that the decendents of the roaches will be so sentimental - or the bacteria supermind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Domino - We have a very long way to go until then and by that time humans and life as you now know it will have evolved into something unrecognizable by us today. I worry about similar fates that are perhaps more possible in the short term - like us humans poisoning the earth and destroying what is here and now - and thisgs of this sort. Do you feel any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Yes ! I know, but we can at least control those things, what ever we may do, we could never stop this happening, we will evolve, and most probably when it will happen, there will be no Human left, but Earth the one that carried humanity, that is the witness of our civilisation, of nature on all its beauty, will one day Poof... gone... this little Planet... that gave birth to life, this Planet that is probably one of the most unique and worthy pieces of mass in all the Universe, for what it created(species etc...) will no longer be one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 as you can see i'm not bothered by that situation, as the condition that the earth is in now is already something to mourne about. the thought that bothers me the most is this:what if we are just "lab rats", put on this planet by "others"?the most horrifying thing about this is that one day those "others" might decide that the experiment is over. (hmm, i feel a new religion is emerging, the "othersism")just imagine, "others" take us out of our little confie lab, the earth, and set us free in the wild.what if we haven't pleased "others" by our intelectual achievement (or by some "otherian" messure) and deserve to be exterminated. and this thought goes on and on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Thoth, the only reason I brought the Borg up was due to their ultra-high level of "inter-connection". The only disturbing thing about the borg in my opinion is that "individuality" is lost. I think that even in a borg scenario, complete individuality can still be maintained, while the "collective" functions as a whole! The main key is privacy and "personal space". If each individual is allowed to have their personal space, their individual thoughts and then have an interface to the rest of the collective to "contribute" then the system will work. The beauty of this "virtual" existance is that all that you said can still exist. "Physical Pain" can be simulated through a "punishment function" of some sort that directly stimulates the pain centers. Similarly, "reward functions" of different sorts can be used to simulate the pleasure zones of each individual entity in the collective. Thus, it is possible to reward positive actions and punish negative (or lack of) actions/contributions. This is of course a WHOLE topic of discussion, but I am definitely not one to dismiss the Borg-type existance as completely undesirable. I can actually see a lot of value in that type of a collective existance. But you are definitely right ... whether good or bad, WE ARE HEADED in that direction! It just so happens that our connections currently are though some rediculous copper lines and still rely on our body sensors (eyes, ears, fingers for typing). But we are connected as a huge global collective! (it's hard for people to accept it but I can see it VERY clearly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Ok the above is quite a bit of science fiction I admit. But as a side note, a couple of things that I believe will most likely become reality in the not too distant future (my life-time): Biological interfaces: i.e. human/machine interfaces that are much more tightly coupled to the brain than external devices like keyboard, mouse, monitor. We have already seen these things in action! They HAVE created and successfully tested video sensors that can help blind people to see in certain instances by communicating with the optic nerve. Much much much more sophisticated computers: Just imagine what happened in the last 10 years. Can you possibly guess what is going to happen in the next 50 years? CMOS chip technology has experienced and will experience EXPONENTIAL growth. That is just too amazing of a gain to take lightly. I was at intel labs in Oregon and they are already working on 10nm transistors (currently we use roughly 180nm ones). But that's just CMOS ... there is huge talk of optical and even quantum computers which I wouldn't be surprised to see one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Thoth, Harut and Seaphan, I am not mourning, the disapearence of the human species when with will happen, I am mourning Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Domino - understood. Remember though - nothing lives forever. And our Earth as it is now is like us - only passing through a stage - a glorious stage to be sure! But as I said before - this fate is a long time off..and way beyond our ability to control.... [ November 03, 2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: THOTH ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 by that time sun-technician will be very popular career and we will be able to conduct surgeries on the sun and supply the sun with all necessary materials. but at that time we won't really need sun anymore, as there will be couple of other artifical suns in the near space. and we can push the sun away from our solar system. oh, btw, at that time, the only non-artifical living organisms on the earth will be the humans. in the worst case we will move the earth into another solar system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15levels Posted November 5, 2002 Report Share Posted November 5, 2002 I think when humans will depend on the muchines too much- thats going to be the beginning of the end. Computer technogoly will only advance, in a great speed, we will start relying on muchines more and more, until they gain a momentum and we'll have a "Matrix" de facto. And yes, me too, much more affraid of a nuclear holocaust scenario rather than planet earth being drawn to the sun. We did not make this planet, but we can definitely ruin it. Population of this planet grows by 250.000 every day. Do you get it???? 250.000 people EVERY DAY. [ November 05, 2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Rouben Malayan ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 5, 2002 Report Share Posted November 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Rouben Malayan:I think when humans will depend on the muchines too much- thats going to be the beginning of the end...Oh but what an awesome end it will be Just think how much you are dependent on machines and computers now. Do you think we have started the end? I don't think so. But the world would collapse without computers and machines. We are VERY dependent on them yet it's not been the horrible thing that some invisioned! It's only going to get better and better and better. Don't let technophobes get to you ... a single mind is great. But a BILLION inter-connected minds is something TRULLY unimaginable (for our puny single minds) ... how do you think we are able to advance so rapidly and so much? It's because each individual mind can become an expert in a very specific domain ... and all the minds together can create something like the space shuttle (the most advanced "object" ever created by humans) ... and we are getting better and better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 "Much much much more sophisticated computers: Just imagine what happened in the last 10 years. Can you possibly guess what is going to happen in the next 50 years? CMOS chip technology has experienced and will experience EXPONENTIAL growth. That is just too amazing of a gain to take lightly. I was at intel labs in Oregon and they are already working on 10nm transistors (currently we use roughly 180nm ones). We are VERY dependent on them yet it's not been the horrible thing that some invisioned! It's only going to get better and better and better." Wait, wait for some time, quantum computers are coming... Seriously. THERE you will see an exponential growth in the speed. My thought is that they will operate as optical computers - optics is much faster than the electronics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 Have ya'll seen the movie "Artificial Intelligence"? What do you think, realistic or not? Also what everyday tasks will we be able to perform with quantum computers? Can you please give some examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 That's pretty cool about quantum computers sen_vahan! I keep hearing the term but I don't really know how they work. As far as opticals, here's what I know: They are working on fully optical chips. Those are quite a ways in the future (maybe 20 years at least). However, optical interconnect is a reality. As you may know, the components (transitors) on the chip are all interconnnected by "wires". There are fairly mature technologies that replace these connections between the differnt parts of the chip with ultra-small optical links. I think there are prototypes of such systems that seem to be very promising. The problem now is to make them cost effective (it's hard considering how awesome and cheap CMOS chips are right now!!!) In the immediate future, there are several things that may replace the "standard" CMOS (complementary metal oxide) type of chips that we have been using. Note that most of these technologies ARE improving at exponential rates. As far as I understand with "quantum" computers for example, there may be MUCH larger jumps than just exponential which is pretty scarry!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 6, 2002 Report Share Posted November 6, 2002 http://qso.lanl.gov/qc/graphics/dilbert.gif I am too very much interested in quantum computing especially when it comes to AI stuff. I will write more later. Just imagine that maybe a computer(robot) can walk into a room and identify a chair vs. a cup vs. the TV like a 3 year old child. (sorry I am being a sarcastic fool) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen_Vahan Posted November 7, 2002 Report Share Posted November 7, 2002 dl, People now think and work on creating universal quantum computer but it is still far from practice(it is yet theoretical). Once it is created it will become popular with the only difference - the speed which will be infinitely larger.(and obviously the principle) One of the ideas I like most is around creating a quantum computer (or molecular based computer) which might work with the help of modern ultrafast lasers - putting information into the molecule by shaped femtosecond pulses and then reading it out(manipulation of the information will probably depend on the coherence times for the particular system). This is abstract still but a very good idea in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Barev, quote: Originally posted by Harut:the thought that bothers me the most is this:what if we are just "lab rats", put on this planet by "others"?the most horrifying thing about this is that one day those "others" might decide that the experiment is over. Have you ever read the 'Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' by Douglas Adams? This is exactly one of the premises in the book. Actually, it's the mice that control everything. Personally, I fear a sudden catastrohic event (be it nuclear war, impact from a large asteroid, epidemic desease, or whatever) much more than the natural eventuality that the earth will cease to exist. The latter, to me, is a fact that we cannot avoid. I just hope that through technology we will learn to modify our collective behaviour and minimise our impact upon the earth, in contrast with the current situation where it seems that almost everything we do contibutes to accelerating the earth's demise. quote:Origninally quoted by Domino:...I am not mourning, the disapearence of the human species when with will happen, I am mourning Earth. Domino, I join you in your mourning of the earth, and I deplore what we are doing to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 vava nice post. I share all of your sentiments. Just make sure you have your towel with you at all times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 9, 2002 Report Share Posted November 9, 2002 Sadly Thoth, I have hung up my towel. The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal happened to eat my favourite one during my last visit to Squornshellous Zeta... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Well looks like all your left to do is to down a pan galatic gargle blaster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Yup! Might do nicely before bed, or perhaps some plain earth whiskey... good night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 quote:Originally posted by vava:Sadly Thoth, I have hung up my towel. The Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal happened to eat my favourite one during my last visit to Squornshellous Zeta...That is one of those rare posts that sounds almost identical (and is just as confusing) read forwards and backwards!!! Wow dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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