annannimusss Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Zurderer,they say publicly that they are Turks,but when the camera is off they say that they are Armenian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Arpa,are you so blind to see that I was trying to make a point.There is nothing wrong with the Armenian Catholic Church,the Protestants are also find.But my point (I should have been more specific since you are having a hard time understanding) is that they need to be Christian.And to be specific should either join the Armenian Apostolic Church or the Armenian Catholic Church,not the Protestant Church,but we already discussed this in another thread. I do not consider myself Xtian and consider an insult to be called one. Am I not allowed to still be an Armenian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 This applies to the Hamshens,who are Dajeek.I am not talking about people here in the Diaspora and so on.Unless you are Jehova or Mormon or any of those cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 This applies to the Hamshens,who are Dajeek.I am not talking about people here in the Diaspora and so on.Unless you are Jehova or Mormon or any of those cults. Dear Sako, sorry to say this , but you must grow up, literally, and learn what and who an Armenian is. Please take your time. Never mind what your Kahanah and Vardapet says. Think it over and answer after you have considered all avenues. Don’t go by me. I don’t subscribe to any. Be it Apostolic, Catholic or… But when you talk about “Jewhovah“, who do you think you are talking about? Who do you think the present “Apostolic “Armenian God -Astuats is? Read that Book of Lies, aka Bible again and see who our PRESENT Astuats is. If He is not that same Jewhovah? Unlike you. Many of us have a very dim view of any and all Jewhowah-s and Astuats-s. Be they Apostolic or Aporiginies. Language and Culture. Repeat. Language and Culture, have saved us. Do you know what “այլասէրում/aylaseoum/xenophilia” and “ուծացում/oudzatsoum/alienation/xenophobia” mean, as in alienating from our own native culture and adopting the alien(Jewish) Jehovaic( you may call it Apostolic) and Jesusite culture. Otherwise we would still be worshipping Aramazt, Ahura-Mazda and others which we did many centuries before anyone had heard of Jesus and Jehovah. Please allow me to be so bold. How much Armenian LANGUAGE and culture, aside from “Apostolic” do you know? And you know what? Despite all and before that ,we were still Armenians. And we shall remain so after all this Apostolic, Catholic, Protetant, Jehovah’s, Mormon’s and other morons assail us. Concentrate on language and culture, let those masturbating monks worry about religion, be it Apostolic or Agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Dear Sako, sorry to say this , but you must grow up, literally, and learn what and who an Armenian is. Please take your time. Never mind what your Kahanah and Vardapet says. Think it over and answer after you have considered all avenues. Don’t go by me. I don’t subscribe to any. Be it Apostolic, Catholic or… But when you talk about “Jewhovah“, who do you think you are talking about? Who do you think the present “Apostolic “Armenian God -Astuats is? Read that Book of Lies, aka Bible again and see who our PRESENT Astuats is. If He is not that same Jewhovah? Unlike you. Many of us have a very dim view of any and all Jewhowah-s and Astuats-s. Be they Apostolic or Aporiginies. Language and Culture. Repeat. Language and Culture, have saved us. Do you know what “այլասէրում/aylaseoum/xenophilia” and “ուծացում/oudzatsoum/alienation/xenophobia” mean, as in alienating from our own native culture and adopting the alien(Jewish) Jehovaic( you may call it Apostolic) and Jesusite culture. Otherwise we would still be worshipping Aramazt, Ahura-Mazda and others which we did many centuries before anyone had heard of Jesus and Jehovah. Please allow me to be so bold. How much Armenian LANGUAGE and culture, aside from “Apostolic” do you know? And you know what? Despite all and before that ,we were still Armenians. And we shall remain so after all this Apostolic, Catholic, Protetant, Jehovah’s, Mormon’s and other morons assail us. Concentrate on language and culture, let those masturbating monks worry about religion, be it Apostolic or Agnostic. amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Arpa your disprespectfulness to the Armenian Apostolic Chruch is unbeliveable.And how dare yuo spew the crap you are spewing. How much Armenian language do I know,I can speak fluently and next year at Fresno State I will be taking the reading and writing course,plus I will also be getting a minor in Armenian Studies.This all will either happen next year or two years from now. And on Culture/History,I am continuing to read and study about our culture/history,which includes the Armenian Apostolic Church history. I have a question for you,how much do you really know about the Armenian Apostolic Church?And why do you hate our peoples religion so much? And to respond to one of your points,we would not have continued to be worshipping Aramazt and so on,why the Persians attacked us and tried to make us Zoroastrians,but Kach Vartan fought and died along with his men and kept us Christian,if not for this simple act we would have been followers of the Zoroastrian religion,which would have led us to becoming Muslim when the Persians became muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubépine Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Zurderer,they say publicly that they are Turks,but when the camera is off they say that they are Armenian. That's wishful thinking on your part. They are totally assimilated by the way. I met one by chance here in Istanbul. When he said that they had Armenian ancestry in their family I asked him where he was from. He told me that they were from near the Ayder Plateau, which is very close to Hemshin, but that he had lived in Rize. He was the devout Muslim type and I don't think that he had an inkling about Armenians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I agree here, I do also know/heard/read that they pretty much consider themselves Turks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Arpa your disprespectfulness to the Armenian Apostolic Chruch is unbeliveable.And how dare yuo spew the crap you are spewing. How much Armenian language do I know,I can speak fluently and next year at Fresno State I will be taking the reading and writing course,plus I will also be getting a minor in Armenian Studies.This all will either happen next year or two years from now. And on Culture/History,I am continuing to read and study about our culture/history,which includes the Armenian Apostolic Church history. I have a question for you,how much do you really know about the Armenian Apostolic Church?And why do you hate our peoples religion so much? And to respond to one of your points,we would not have continued to be worshipping Aramazt and so on,why the Persians attacked us and tried to make us Zoroastrians,but Kach Vartan fought and died along with his men and kept us Christian,if not for this simple act we would have been followers of the Zoroastrian religion,which would have led us to becoming Muslim when the Persians became muslim. "Christianity" is not an Armenian relgion. Like all religions it is based on myth. It has as much validity as ancient Armenian paganism. If it were not a catalyst for the development of the Armenian alphabet then I would go as far as to say it is one of the darkest chapters in Armenian history (from as little as I know about it). Any nation that embraced christianity, lost a bit of itself and endured or perpetrated atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 What exactly is wrong with muslim Armenians or Hamshen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubépine Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 "Christianity" is not an Armenian relgion. Like all religions it is based on myth. It has as much validity as ancient Armenian paganism. If it were not a catalyst for the development of the Armenian alphabet then I would go as far as to say it is one of the darkest chapters in Armenian history (from as little as I know about it). Any nation that embraced christianity, lost a bit of itself and endured or perpetrated atrocities. The same can be said for those countries that became Muslim (excluding Arab countries of course). They lost a great part of their indigenous culture when the Arabs superimposed all their traits on them unfortunately. I think the countries that became Muslim are the world's real losers. They lost out on almost everything. Luckily for Spain they were the only country to save themselves from the Muslim yoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Armenia and Christianity go hand and hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Armenia and Christianity go hand and hand. Xtianity is not the same as Armenian, you are stating your opinion which simply excludes a good portion or the greater Armenian community. Other then a few women in my family I do not know any devout Xtians. Additionally, I think even the devout have faith and no real understanding of the mystic nature of any religion that aims to explain existence to the mundane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 gmd,You sound very confused.Most Armenians are Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Սիրելի Սարգիս՝ Երբ հայոց պատմութիւն կարդաս, պէտք է կարդաս եւ տողերու միջեւ չգրուած պատմութիւնը: Այլ խօսքով՝ յուսամ քո սնումը մէկ աղբիւրէ չ'ըլլար: Սիրելի Սարգիս՝ Բացարձակ ճշմարտութիւն չ'կայ: Գիտես ինչ, ոչինչ աւելի կարեւոր է, քան Հայաստանն ու Հայ ժողովուրդը: Տուեալ պահին ինչը մեզ կը փրկէ կորուստէ, հաւատանք անոր: Եթէ պէտք էր հաւատալ ազրայէլին-սադայէլին, հաւատայինք, միայն թէ մեր արիւնը, մեր ծիները, մեր մշակոյթը փրկուէր: Այնպէս ինչպէս եղանք քրիստոնեայ, երբ պահը այդպէս պահանջեց, ըլլայինք եւ ուրիշ բան երբ պահն ուրիշ բան պահանջեց: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zurderer Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 The same can be said for those countries that became Muslim (excluding Arab countries of course). They lost a great part of their indigenous culture when the Arabs superimposed all their traits on them unfortunately. I think the countries that became Muslim are the world's real losers. They lost out on almost everything. Luckily for Spain they were the only country to save themselves from the Muslim yoke. I am not aware of muslim background of china, india, native americans ext. All world was defenceless against rise of west power. It had no relation with religion, but region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Սրբութեան պէս պէտք էր պահպանուէր պետութիւնը: Առանց այդ պետութեան, ժողովուրդն ու մշակոյթը վտանգի ենթարկուեցաւ: Ինչ՞ հաւատք, երբ այդ հաւատքը դաւանող ժողովուրդ չ'մնաց: Ինչ՞ հաւատք երբ չ'մնաց այդ երկիրը, որտեղ պիտի ապրէր եւ հաւատար այդ ժողովուրդը: Կը կարծես՞, որ մենք կանք այժմ: Ես կը կարծեմ, որ խորքին մէջ չ'կանք: Մենք կը նմանինք Nicole Kidman-ի՝ The Others շարժանկարի հերոսներուն: Մենք այժմ ամէնապարզ հաշուարկով պիտի ըլլայինք 35-40 միլիոն: Այս իմաստով է, որ կ'ըսեմ մենք չ'կանք, ոչ մեր հայրենիքի 90%-ի մէջ, ոչ ալ սփիւռքի մէջ...գիտես ինչու՞...որովhետեւ առանց հովիւի հօտ էինք. աւելի քան 1000 տարի ... Միայն պապաները. լաւ կը նային, կը խնամեն հարազատ ձագուկներուն... Կրօնի մասին՝ ուրիշ ըսելիք ալ ունիմ: Ոստայնն անհարմար է ատայայտուելու համար: Առանձին կը գրեմ Արփային, ան իր անգլերէնով, եթէ կ'ուզէ՝ թո՛ղ թարգմանէ: Մեր կրօնը՝ պարտուած կրօն է այս կողմերը: Ինչու՞...վէրջը կ'ըսեմ... 1700 տարի շալակեցինք Քրիստոսի խաչը, որպէսզի Պապա Վենեդիկտոս 16-րդը, շռայլօրէն գովասանէ մեր արիւնը անապատի աւազներու վրայ չորացնող երկիրն ու ժողովուրդը: Թող մենք ըլլայինք Ցեղասպանը, թող մենք ըլլայինք Պապն ընդունողը: Թող ընդունէինք այդ կրօնը երբ մեր շրջապատը այդ կրօնը դաւանողներով շրջապատուած էր, երբ տակաւին մեր լեռնաշխարհի տարածքին եւ շուրջը կը բնակէինք: Այդ ժամանակ մենք պիտի ձուլէինք մեր մէջ եկւոր օտարները: Մե՛նք պիտի տիրէինք, մեր աշխարհագրական դիրքի, քանակի եւ որակի շնորհիւ: Թո՛ղ ընդունէինք այդ կրօնը, երբ Հռոմը քէնոտ էր Կոստանդնուպոլիսէն, երբ Կոստանդնուպոլիսը պատառ-պատառ մեզմէ հատուածներ կը քերթեր յանուն «Ուղղափառ» հաւատքի: Փաստօրէն՝ մէկ օրէն միւսը, երկինքէն ընկածի պէս յայտնուեցանք, որպէս խորթ, օտար եւ տարօրինակ ազգ մը՝ իր բիւրամեայ հայրենիքի մէջ: Մեր նմանները շատոնց չ'կային այլեւս, ոչ հարաւի, ոչ արեւելքի եւ ոչ հիւսիսի ու արեւմուտքի մէջ: Որոշած էինք, Սագոլիկ փաշիկի նման մտածողներս՝ ազգովին նահատակուիլ, եւ այդպէս ալ պատահեցաւ: Իսկ հիմա ճանաչում, կը մուրանք ասկէ ու անկէ: Այդ ամպերն էին, որ բերին այս անձրեւը: Եթէ կ'ուզէք ապագան գիտնալ, խնդրեմ՝ գուշակներու մի երթա՛ք: Ընթերցէ՛ք մեր անցեալի էջերը, բաղդատեցէք այսօրուայ դրութեան հետ, պիտի տեսնաք՝ ու՞ր էինք, ուր հասանք: Ին՞չ էինք, ինչ եղանք, իսկոյն պիտի գիտնա՛ք ապագան: Յետ գրութիւն.-Ճիշդ պահին պիտի ընդունէինք ճիշդ որոշումը, ազգովին, եւ պետութեամբ հովանաւորուած: Հիմա անիմաստ է մեր հէյ՜ վախները: Անիմաստ է եւ իմ կռկռոցը: Հիմա անիմաստ է անկրօն կամ հաւատացեալ ըլլալը: Հիմա աշխարհն ուրիշ է, հաւատքներն ուրիշ: Հիմա կրօնը այն չէ, ինչպէս որ էր առաջ: Հիմա ամէն ինչ տարբեր է: Սագո ջան չ'մոռնաս, որ մենք քրիստոնէութիւնը հայացուցինք: Նախապէս՝ էր, ինչ որ է այժմ ինձ եւ քեզ համար բուդիզմը: Կամայ ակամայ մեր մշակոյթը առընչուած է մեր եկեղեցւոյ: Ես մեր տաճարներու կառուցման ոճին մեռնիմ: Այնչափ շատ կը սիրեմ չէ՛ք պատկերացնէր: Ես մեր շարականներու երկնասլաց խազերը սիրեմ: Կը կարծեմ, որ նոյնն ոճն էր, որ կը տիրէր, երբ մենք հեթան (հայրապաշտ) էինք: Արաբ քրիստոնեայի եւ արաբ մուսլիմանի, կրօնական երգն այնքան նման են իրար, որ առաջին առիթով պիտի նկատես՝ նոյն ժողովուրդի տարբեր կրօնի պատկանողներու նոյնանման ոճն է: Ինչ որ ունինք մեր եկեղեցւոյ մէջ, մեր ՑԵՂին կը պարտինք: Հերիք է...յոգնեցայ: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Armenia and Christianity go hand and hand. I am a Ramgavar and I will always be a Ramgavar . I am a Ramgavar and I will always be a Ramgavar. I am a Ramgavar and I will always be a Ramgavar. I am a Ramgavar and I will always be a Ramgavar. I am a Ramgavar and I will always be a Ramgavar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 gmd,You sound very confused.Most Armenians are Christian. A long time ago I would buy that lie. I was "fortunate" enough to receive a good Catholic education. Subsequently I began my own search for any historical basis to support the existence of Christ. If I am confused it is only on who is gaining the most by this lie. As for Armenians and Christianity, all I can tell you is that if you accept "Christian" philosophy then it is contrary to any nationalism. Accepting Christianity speeds up the destruction of Armenians. We would be better off as a people believing in ourselves and rejecting any notion of god that tells us to accept enslavement to Jewish beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annannimusss Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Boghos is this a complement.Maybe a fellow Ramgavar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I have to make a confession: I am a sworn member of Ramgavar.So you got that right, but Sako, drhas, it is pretty clownish to use it as your signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 "Christianity" is not an Armenian relgion. Like all religions it is based on myth. It has as much validity as ancient Armenian paganism. If it were not a catalyst for the development of the Armenian alphabet then I would go as far as to say it is one of the darkest chapters in Armenian history (from as little as I know about it). Any nation that embraced christianity, lost a bit of itself and endured or perpetrated atrocities. How dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 How dare you. ? what ever do you mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 ? what ever do you mean ? I was being sarcastic. I was just immitating the answer you'll recieve from some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmd Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) I was being sarcastic. I was just immitating the answer you'll recieve from some. Too many Armenians for far too long have suffered under delusions. Christ is not coming to save anyone much less us. Sooner we all accept it the sooner we can solve our own problems together. I am not posting on here for validation. Just want Armenians to start thinking about each other. Christianity is a global movement that does not further our national ambitions. If there was a god and he cared about us then he would at least send us a saviour of our own. Not make us follow a made up Jewish carpenter. If this kind of talk is uncomfortable for some then they can shut me up by discussing Armenian unity without any Christian pre-conditions. Edited December 12, 2006 by gmd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts