Hamshentsa

[MosJan]

Apparently. Unfortunately enough, to many Armenians, nothing is Armenian beyond the church. History starts at 301 and Vartan Mamigonian is the national patriarch. Like you said, if we are having a hard time tolerating compatriots who are exactly as the rest of us except when it comes to what god (or if a god) they believe in, what does that say about us as a people?

 

 

many don;t know that in days of Liberation of Artsakh we did not say NO to any of them - Hamshnlu or Hethanoss - Hetanos Brigad has lost over 80 % of it's Fedayis - Way now ??

 

ethnic Armenian Chrisitans - is the president of Armenia ethnic Armenian Christians ?? look what his doing to / in Armenia

was Nairi hunanyan ethnic Armenian Chrisitans ??

 

 

Way point fingers way say no to your brothers and sisyers

 

no it's the Armenia way - we most / your a Hayastanatsy / his Artsaxtsy / i'm Musalertsy shis Kesabtsy - it's our way of self destruction

 

turks have nothing to worry - we will **&%^ ourselves soon

 

[Zartonk]

many don;t know that in days of Liberation of Artsakh we did not say NO to any of them - Hamshnlu or Hethanoss - Hetanos Brigad has lost over 80 % of it's Fedayis - Way now ??

 

That's pathetic. Really is.

 

Will their faith in Christ, Vishnu or the Flying Teapot make any difference in the national contribution at the end of the day? H.E.L.L. not.

 

Our purposeless (and I mean utterly PURPOSELESS, if biological survival is concerned) segmentations go beyonddialet, district, city or village. I know Iranian-Armenians who literally reffer to fellow town citizens as a divergent and untouchable group. It's sorta like saying 1st Ave.-tsi, 3rd St.-tsi, East End-tsi and so on and so fourth.

 

Does any other ethnicity have such a cock of a ego that it pokes it's own left eye out?

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

I don't support what Arpa said, in fact, i don't even care christian or no christian, but I think we must understand why he made those comments. Being surrounded and targeted by non christians, armenians were forced to built a defence mechanism within themselves which would protect them from butchers. Without having true leaders, people had to listen to the priests. Not many know that Grigor lusamarich was the biggest property holder in Armenia. The sory of Avaray and the Iranians is prsented to us in a way which will unable us to do more reasarch about Armenian-Iranian reationship of those days. Since most pre-Christian writings were destroyed by Gregory and his followers, the story about our past is found in Iranian sources.

 

Also, don't forget the IDIOT PRIESTS had a role to play in our massacres. When 100-200 turks soldiers were taking thousands of armenains to die in a desert, the priests were telling people not to fight the enemy. Just before the 1915 massacres, the patriarch of Constantinople ordered the armenains to collect all the household knives from the ordinary people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Zartonk]

Also, don't forget the IDIOT PRIESTS had a role to play in our massacres. When 100-200 turks soldiers were taking thousands of armenains to die in a desert, the priests were telling people not to fight the enemy. Just before the 1915 massacres, the patriarch of Constantinople ordered the armenains to collect all the household knives from the ordinary people.

 

Yes, sadly so throughout history. Cross over Gun.

 

While told to turn the other cheek, the world raped the Armenians in yet another cheek.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

 

As you can see, they cut us from our past, they deprived us from the right to defend ourselves, they didn't give us a right leadership...u mez baxti qmahajuyqin ein matnel. That's why some armenians became muslims to stay alive while the others stuck together and hoped for a better tomorrow.

 

The sense of belonging is strong in all people aroung the world. For the armenians it's associated with the desire to stay alive. That's why I don't blame Arpa. Today, we live in a world that gives us chance to learn and associate ourselves with our true identity. No wonder why the turks keep their people in a dark and tell the world the genetics of the Hamshecis has nothing in common with the Armenians. People with no past shamelessly try to re-write the history and still our identity.

 

Until we come to an understanding that without knowledge and understanding of the past there is not present, and without the present, there is no future, we will never be find our right place on the face of the earth. We have given too much to the world, and we took too much crap from them. The time has came for us to think about building our own home.

 

[AK-47]

One of the reasons Armenians have survived for so long in the past is because of Christianity actually. We've always been an island surrounded by Muslims, Zoroastrians etc. The reason we survived it cause we were different, we kept to our culture and was not assimilated in the vast seas of Muslim and Zoroastrianist invading armies. A perfect example of another group that has survived for centuries despite not having a country are the Jews. Why? because they kept to their culture, believed in Zionism (although the term wasn't founded until the early 1900s) and were different than "the rest" (being christian or muslim). That unity through the church kept us alive. What other nation could survive 800 years of Mongol ***ers reigning over them...we actually managed to migrate and form another country on a different territory which is simply amazing (Cilicia).

 

Anyway, I agree totally that the church "stabbed us in the back" during the Armenian Genocide. Alot of the victims were the church's fault due to terrible manipulation. And that is where the church started to lose power. With the creation of a huge Diaspora in mostly Christian countries, we are too easily assimilated now. We are just like the rest of them and this is why the church's powers are being depleted...it's not cutting it anymore. We need a new philosophy and that philosophy has to be an Armenian Zionism. That is a way to unite the fast assimilating Armenian Diaspora...if it's not today's youth, it'll be the next or the one after that. Armenia isn't in danger yet but about 60% of all Armenians live outside Armenia's borders and that is where we are in danger.

 

Bringing the Hamshens back to Armenia would be great as it will create national unity, be it Christian Muslim Jehova's etc etc. Patriotism and national identity should come before religion. The diaspora must believe in one day returning to a United Armenia.

[Dave]

Anyway, I agree totally that the church "stabbed us in the back" during the Armenian Genocide. Alot of the victims were the church's fault due to terrible manipulation. And that is where the church started to lose power.

 

What do you mean, exactly? Genocide survivors and their descendants in Lebanon and Syria never lost their faith regardless of what they had been through.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Dave

[AK-47]

What do you mean, exactly? Genocide survivors and their descendants in Lebanon and Syria never lost their faith regardless of what they had been through.

 

Precisely, they have been surrounded by Muslims, they are a Christian island so they survive. However, things aren't looking to be the same in places like the USA. About the church genocide connection, it was an agreement that the church preached not to raise weapons against the Turks. Sad...

[Dave]

No, those places had considerable Christian populations. Lebanon, for example, was 50% Christian back then.

 

If most American-Armenians today don't have the motivation to preserve their identity, even adopting the most obscure ideology wouldn't help.

 

About the church genocide connection, it was an agreement that the church preached not to raise weapons against the Turks.

 

You're talking about the traditionally pro-Turkish Istanbul Patriarchs and their goons. True Armenian Christianity is a defender of Armenian interests. Besides, Armenian religious leaders didn't stop the ARF to rebel.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

The reason we survived it cause we were different, we kept to our culture and was not assimilated in the vast seas of Muslim and Zoroastrianist invading armies.

 

 

BINGO! We survived because we were different(But our past way of life and our culture also playes a big role). Iranians every day curse the arabs for importing islam to their country. Just because we were different, doesn't mean we were right. The Bible is full of lies. There was never a guy named Movses. Do your own research, talk to anyone who knows the Egyptian history. There will be one outcome, there was no guy in Egypt with a name Movses. In fact, the story of Movses was taken from the Egyptians. Egyptians on their turn, have gotten the story from the Mittanis. Mittanis exported thier belife of a single universal God to Egypt. Can you guess who the Mittanis were and where they lived?

 

Back to the Christianity. If you say the Old Testament is Torah altered to fit the Bible, I will agree with you. But you can't ignore the fact that the New Testament is full of contradictions. Religion was and still is a tool used to control people. We don't have to replace one wrong with another wrong to define our identity. It's not the religion that defines people. The french and the Germans worship the same God, but you can't deny that they are different. The same way, most of Hamsenahays might be muslims just like the turks, but they have strong sense of belonging to the armenian nation. Religion, once again, might be part of their lives, but it doesn't define who they truly are. If we were to claim that religion defines who we are, then all the Christian churches must have looked alike. Armenian culture and the sense of identity, be it among the muslim of christian armenians, is unique and different from the others.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Vanahye7]

BINGO! We survived because we were different(But our past way of life and our culture also playes a big role). Iranians every day curse the arabs for importing islam to their country. Just because we were different, doesn't mean we were right. The Bible is full of lies. There was never a guy named Movses. Do your own research, talk to anyone who knows the Egyptian history. There will be one outcome, there was no guy in Egypt with a name Movses. In fact, the story of Movses was taken from the Egyptians. Egyptians on their turn, have gotten the story from the Mittanis. Mittanis exported thier belife of a single universal God to Egypt. Can you guess who the Mittanis were and where they lived?

 

Back to the Christianity. If you say the Old Testament is Torah altered to fit the Bible, I will agree with you. But you can't ignore the fact that the New Testament is full of contradictions. Religion was and still is a tool used to control people. We don't have to replace one wrong with another wrong to define our identity. It's not the religion that defines people. The french and the Germans worship the same God, but you can't deny that they are different. The same way, most of Hamsenahays might be muslims just like the turks, but they have strong sense of belonging to the armenian nation. Religion, once again, might be part of their lives, but it doesn't define who they truly are. If we were to claim that religion defines who we are, then all the Christian churches must have looked alike. Armenian culture and the sense of identity, be it among the muslim of christian armenians, is unique and different from the others.

 

 

Youir opinion of the Bible bein full of lies, is jus that.. your opinion. Just like mine is my opinion.

 

I dont want to get completely off topic, but everything goes back to its roots in th end with this topic. Are you Christiian before you are Armenian or Armenian before you are Chrisitan? Ive thought bout this alot, and I have alot of pride for my homeland and my Armenian people, but I am Christian before I am Armenian becuase in my opinion there is another calling after Im dead I will have to answer to. Jesus never saidf that life would be fair, because if it were than there would be no test of ones faith in my opinion.

 

Annyways, I do agree with alot of you whom I catregorically disagree with are trying to say. Yes, the church did stab us in the back in some ways, but last time I checked a priest nor a church are the son of God and have many faults in they themselves as so called "Christians". Yes, we do need our diaspora Armenians to come back, and come back soooooon before its too late, and yes I do want ethnic Armenians to come back to the homeland regardless of their religion they claim even the Hamshentas and their belief in Islam, because we have a bigger problem now than the Genocide in my eyes that happened in 1915, and that is the continual assymilation of our Diaspora Armenian people. We will not last very mucj longer if we continie to live in our diaspora countries, and we need as many ppl back to the mothaland as possibne, considering the fact that we have "THE 13 LOWEST AMOUNT OF POPULATION GROWTH IN THE WORLD"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ion_growth_rate

 

The reason why I got so ticked by my initial comment was because I assumed that it meant bringing anyone into the Republic and making it open borders. IM soory my freind but just becasue u live in a foreign land of a different ethinic group doesnt mean u will support it nor die for it. If we open borders and allow everyone to come in, thjat will basically bring in many Muslims being that we are surrounded by them in mist of our borders. And having a decreasing number of birth rates as well as a growing number of not just Diaspora Armenians but an Assymilated number of Diaspora Armenians that are just Armenian by name, presents a hige threat to our existence in my view. What will happen then, when we get outnumbered by not just religion but by ethnicity in Armenia?? Am I thinking too far ahead in your eyes?? Maybe so, but we must consider all threats in great detail before rushing to such vital decisions.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Vanahye7

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Vanahye7, the question about the Bible I like to leave just the way it is. Beside, I respect the true belivers and I have no desire to confront them... That would simply be too unethical.

 

At the same time, I must say that I agree with your statement about not having open borders. I will personally make lot of changes in my own life before I finally decide to move and live in Armenia. Armenia is just like another country where the people's way of life MUST be respected. Even in america the emigrants are expected and are forced to change and adopt to the American way of life. The European countries already have major issues with their muslim population because of cultural differences.

 

In my humble opinion, the best way to solve the problem would be to build a country where the people under the law would have equal rights. In addition to that, It's the culture and not the religion that must unite us.

 

The Hamshenahays already live in western-Armenia. Before the diaspora Armenians are moved to live with them, we must be sure a base is crated which will unite us under the same cultural values.

 

 

 

[Arpa]

many don;t know that in days of Liberation of Artsakh we

=====

no it's the Armenia way - we most / your a Hayastanatsy / his Artsaxtsy / i'm Musalertsy shish Kesabtsy - it's our way of self destruction

 

turks have nothing to worry - we will **&%^ ourselves soon

 

HAHA HEHE HIHI !!!

Movses you’re funny.

I will nominate you for the Comedian of the Year Crown.

It is funny how you list Musa Leratsis among Armenians.

How?

Is it that “funny language “ they speak? That they eat Herisa three times a day and they dance to Hala hala ninno ye” in between?

and again.

Am I ever in trouble now.

Save me, save me!

I think I hear someone trying to knock my door down. It is MosJan and his band of Fedayis with their Mossins. OK, OK I give up! I sinned! You can hang me at the highest point of Muaberi Ler. How can I atone?

MosJan, regardless that you speak with that funny language we still love you.

That was a bad dream, a nightmare, a mghdzavanj/մղձավանջ.

I am awake now. Now, to serious business. What I see is not fumy, it is not comedic. It is a real tragedy. At the moment, the only people who still know and speak their local dialects may be the Musa Leratsis at one end of “armenia” to the other, Artsakh. Everything in between has been lost. Look up and see what Hovannes says about the Zeituntsis, who, along with the Musa Leratsis may have been the last to still speak in their traditional language.

Sad!

You don’t see me laughing anymore.

Tragic!

When we talk about assimilation we naturally talk about Armenians mixing and marrying with (once again the run of the alphabet) Afghanis and Zulus. Nobody talks about the internal “assimilation” of MusaLeratsis intermingling with Martakertsis and Edesatsis (ourfa) with Erevantsis. All because of the explosion and meltdown of that “melting pot” from Musa Ler to Martakert that dispersed us to all four corners, where we don’t even remember how our ancestors spoke. No, I don’t mean that Bourj Hammoud dialect, aka Istanbul Vernacular, neither do I mean Yerevan dialect, aka Araratian. We have seen and read poor presentations as to how they spoke but has anyone audio/video recorded them?

Yes, MosJan. “Kermer fstan ekuts e…...hala, hala…” Has anyone actually recorded audio/video how they really speak? Has anyone recorded how the Artsakhtsis speak? And last, but not least. We hear so much about the Hamshen Dialect (see some samples about), I have yet to see and hear an actual recording of how they actually talk.

I know, I know all those audio/video recordings of how Mesrop Mashtots spoke are lost, we can‘t blame Lousavorich for that as he was dead some centuries before.

What is our excuse now?

I know, I know. The motherland is being invaded by Morons, Jehovahs, Evangelicals and other varmints. We have no time for that kind of nonsense.

Edited March 3, 2007 by Arpa

[Johannes]

They seem like a lost branch of the family, dispersed throughout the world long before the Genocide of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey that created today's Diaspora of seven million.

Եթէ ճիշտ հասկացայ վերի անգլերէնը, սփիւռքահայ ժողովուրդը կը գնահատուի 7 միլիոն: Որտեղէ՞ն բերած են այս թիւը: Ի՞նչ հիման վրայ եկած են այս եզրակացութեան: Կարծում եմ ուռճացնելով՝ 4,5 միլիոն ենք Հայաստանից դուրս:

 

Some say that Armenian society is not ready to accept Islamized Armenians, but I am not sure this is the only point. Armenia's citizens were not happy to accept the refugees from Azerbaijan, Christian Armenians, either. Instead of creating opportunities to attract as many Armenians as possible, it seems that the authorities do the opposite and create conditions that make people leave the country.

 

Ու՞ր է պետական մտածումը: Քարոզչական ուժեղ արարք կը լինի նման գաղթ մը նրանց համար ովք ուզում են «ազեր-թուրք»-հայ Արցախեան պայքարը ներկայացնել կրօնական մակարդակի վրայ: 150 հայախօս ընտանիք ի՞նչ վնաս կարող է պատճառել Հայաստանին: Հայաստանի բնակչութեան քան՞ի տոկոսը հաւատացեալ եւ մկրտուած քրիստոնեայ է: Հայախօս լինելը նոյնքան (եւ աւելին իմ կարծիքով) կարեւոր է հայ լինելու համար, որքան որ կարեւոր է Հայաստանեայց Առաքելական եկեղեցւում մկրտուած լինելը:

 

Vardanyan says people often wonder why he spends so much effort on this one group of Armenians and ask whether he himself is Hamshentsi. He says he does it from a sense of national duty, since he does not believe that the Hamshen Armenians will succeed in keeping their identity without help.

 

Թէ ես լինէի Հայաստանի նախագահը, իսկոյն հրահանգ կը ստորագրէի՝ անհապաղ ստեղծել համշէնի բարբառով (արեւմտահայերէնի բարբառ ?) հեռատեսլային հաղորդումներ, ներգրաւելու համար այսպէս կոչուած «թուրքիոյ» համշէնացի 30000 հայախօսները:

 

When 100-200 turks soldiers were taking thousands of armenians to die in a desert, the priests were telling people not to fight the enemy. Just before the 1915 massacres, the patriarch of Constantinople ordered the armenians to collect all the household knives from the ordinary people.

 

Վիշտս մի բանար: Համաձայն եմ, բայց որպէս պարտուած ազգ մենք զմեզ չափէն աւելի կը մեղադրենք: Մեզ սովորեցրին հեզ, խոնարհ եւ անյիշաչար լինել: Մեզ սովորեցրին ապտակ հարողին մեր միւս երեսը ցոյց տալ: Ես չ'կրցայ մեր տէր Յիսուս քրիստոսի նման բարի անձ լինել: Թէ դուք կարողանում եք՝ շատ բարի. կը շնորհաւորեմ: Ինչե՜ր կը քարոզեն անոնք աղօթքէ ետք (ակն ընդ ական), իսկ մեր տէրտէրներ՞ը. քսակնիդ բացէ՛ք, բարի սամարացի եւայլն: 100-200 զինւորի վրայ իւրաքանչիւր կին-երեխայ, եթէ մի քար նետէ իւրաքանչիւր երկվարկեան, վայրկեանը՝ քան՞ի քար, ժամը՝ քան՞ի քար արձակուած կը լինի:

 

Իսկ եթէ իւրաքանչիւր քար կշռէ 200 գրամ. ժամը քանի տոն քար նետած կը լինի կարաւանը: Շատ մակերեսային եւ մանկական եղաւ...գիտեմ: 1915 թուականը՝ 1990ը չէ, իսկ անապատն ալ Պաղեստինը չէ, որպէսզի ինտիփադան օրինակ լինի, բայց եւ այնպէս...

 

Պատրիարքներու մասին թող պատմէ Արփան, թէ ինչպէս Սահակ Կաթողիկոսը համոզեց ուլնեցոց. «զէնքը վայր դնել եւ յանձնուիլ ոսոխմանի էշկարներին»:

 

Մեր պարտութիւնը սկսած է շատ աւելի հինէն: Այն օրէն երբ Հայաստանը իրանց մէջ բաժանեցին՝ Հռովմէացիք եւ Իրանցիք: Այն օրէն երբ հայը սկսաւ ցրուիլ ասդին ու անդին մարմնական գոյութիւնը պահելու համար: Այն օրէն երբ յամառօրէն ուզեցինք մնալ այն հաւատքին վրայ, որ վաղուց մեր հարեւան ազգերը մեկդի նետած էին իրենց գոյութիւնը պահելու համար: Այն օրէն երբ ոչ արեւելցի եւ ոչ արեւմուտցի եղանք, ոչ որթոդոքս, ոչ կաթոլիկ եղանք, այն օրէն երբ՝ ոչ շիի, ոչ սուննի, ոչ ալ ալեւի եղանք: Մնացինք մի դաւանանքի հետեւող, որ պարտադրուած էր մեզի մի տիրոջ կողմէ, որ չկար այլ եւս: Անտէր էինք բառին բուն իմաստով: Իսկ հիմա տէր ունի՞նք....Աստուած գիտէ:

 

Until we come to an understanding that without knowledge and understanding of the past there is not present, and without the present, there is no future, we will never be find our right place on the face of the earth. We have given too much to the world, and we took too much crap from them. The time has came for us to think about building our own home.

 

Yeah, smart words.

 

What do you mean, exactly? Genocide survivors and their descendants in Lebanon and Syria never lost their faith regardless of what they had been through.

 

Սիրելի Դաւիթ, Հայ ժողովուրդը անհաւատ դարձած է. Եղեռնի պատճառով: Կը հաւանիս կամ ոչ, սա իրական է: Մարդ մը կը ճանչնամ, որ մանկուց հաւատացեալ եւ դպիր եղեր է: Երիտասարդութեան տարիքին ուխտի գացած է Երուսաղէմ՝ բայց անհաւատ վերադարձած է: Չէ պատմած թէ ինչ տեսած է այնտեղ, սակայն գուշակած եմ:

 

Ամէնայն դէպս ընդհանրացումներու դէմ եղած եմ միշտ: Ինչո՞ւ չէք զրուցեր Մկրտիչ Խրիմեանի, Վարդան Վարդապետի, Պարգեւ Մարտիրոսեանի մասին: Աշխարհը մէկ ակնոցով մի դիտէք:

Հատ մը ստուգեցէք եւ տեսէք, թէ Յունաստանը ինչեր կ'անէ՝ սիրաշահելու համար նմաօրինակ պարագայով տաճկացած, բայց յունախօս պոնտացիներուն: Ձրի ուսում. յունական համալսարաններու մէջ, քարոզչութիւն, հրատարակում, զբօսաշրջային այցեր յունական սփիւռքի եւ Յունաստանի պոնտացի յոյներու եւ այնտեղ մնացած տաճիկ յոյներու միջեւ յարաբերանքը զօրացնելու համար: Այսպէս կոչուած «թուրքիան»՝ շատ մտահոգ է այս պարագայէն:

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2007 by Johannes

[MosJan]

local dialects??

Haw about Loretsis ? Qyavartsis ( Bayazetsi ) And many others ??

 

it's only in Yerevan that everyone is trying not to use dialects

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Arpa, qani vor du lezvic lav es, ari qez nshanakenq HayForumi Vastakavor Tamada.

 

BTW, esor Vavai dznundn a. Arit@ bac mi togh. Xmichq@ indzanic. Mi hat kenats asa xmenq.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Hamshenis in Turkey

 

There is a current cultural revival going on among the Eastern group of Hamshenis in Turkey. The first motion picture in Homshetsi, Momi (Grandma) was shot in 2000. Hamsheni singer Gökhan Birben (from the Western group) and Laz singer Kâzım Koyuncu had also sung in Homshetsi. In 2005, the first music album exclusively of anonymous Hamshen folk songs and sung mostly in Homshetsi, Vova - Hamşetsu Ğhağ was released.

 

Older generations of Turkish Hamshenis see the reference "Ermeni" (often used by their Laz neighbours) as an insult but some among younger generations, particularly those with strong leftist leanings tend to identify themselves as Armenians.

 

Mesut Yılmaz, a former Prime Minister of Turkey, was born in Istanbul to a family with partial Hamsheni (Western group) origins [citation needed]. Ahmet Tevfik İleri (who was born in Yaltkaya (Gomno) village of Hemşin), a Deputy Prime Minister and before that, a Minister of Education in Turkey within successive Adnan Menderes governments between 1950-1960, as well as Damat Mehmet Ali *****, the Ottoman Grand Vizier on the eve of the Crimean War in 1853 were also Hamshenis. The community issued other important names in Turkish history and society such as Murat Karayalçın, current leader of SHP and a former Deputy Prime Minister and mayor of Ankara [citation needed].

 

Presently, a major issue in Turkey regarding the Hamshenis is tourism. The ecology of the area and local culture are being threatened by the increase of tourists who are drawn to the beauty of areas such as Rize, Hopa, and Ayder. Many Hamshenis are angry with this sudden boost of tourism. "Ayder's degeneration began after it was linked by road to the nearby town of Çamlıhemşin," said Selçuk Güney, a local Hamsheni activist. One of his aims is to ensure that his birthplace, the neighbouring Fırtına (Furtuna) valley, avoids a similar fate.

 

[irlandahay]

BINGO! We survived because we were different(But our past way of life and our culture also playes a big role). Iranians every day curse the arabs for importing islam to their country. Just because we were different, doesn't mean we were right. The Bible is full of lies. There was never a guy named Movses. Do your own research, talk to anyone who knows the Egyptian history. There will be one outcome, there was no guy in Egypt with a name Movses. In fact, the story of Movses was taken from the Egyptians. Egyptians on their turn, have gotten the story from the Mittanis. Mittanis exported thier belife of a single universal God to Egypt. Can you guess who the Mittanis were and where they lived?

 

another good example would be this lucifer fellow.

 

did anyone else but me find a striking connection to greek mythology?

lucifer rebels...punished by god, prometheus rebels...punished by zeus.

 

coincidence?

[Aratta-Kingdom]

another good example would be this lucifer fellow.

 

did anyone else but me find a striking connection to greek mythology?

lucifer rebels...punished by god, prometheus rebels...punished by zeus.

 

coincidence?

 

What in a world are you talking about?

Edited March 4, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[MosJan]

Axx Dle Yaman~~~~~~

[neko]

In 2005, the first music album exclusively of anonymous Hamshen folk songs and sung mostly in Homshetsi, Vova - Hamşetsu Ğhağ was released.

 

That's not correct. In the 1980s and 90s tapes of Hemshinli music were freely available, both as commercial releases and as privately recorded or bootleg tapes.

 

Presently, a major issue in Turkey regarding the Hamshenis is tourism. The ecology of the area and local culture are being threatened by the increase of tourists who are drawn to the beauty of areas such as Rize, Hopa, and Ayder. Many Hamshenis are angry with this sudden boost of tourism. "Ayder's degeneration began after it was linked by road to the nearby town of Çamlıhemşin," said Selçuk Güney, a local Hamsheni activist.

 

Ayder went from a couple of hotels in the 1980s, to about a dozen in the 1990s, to over 100 now. Who owns them and works in them I wonder? Hemshinli?

 

One of his aims is to ensure that his birthplace, the neighbouring Fırtına (Furtuna) valley, avoids a similar fate.

Destruction by being flooded by a dam is probably a more likely fate.

 

[neko]

did anyone else but me find a striking connection to greek mythology?

lucifer rebels...punished by god, prometheus rebels...punished by zeus.

 

coincidence?

 

No, not only you, and no, it isn't coincidence.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_Unbound

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

No, not only you, and no, it isn't coincidence.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_Unbound

 

Irlandahay can get a free pass out of this. But a parasite like NO WAY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Patrick, here is a site i will recomend you to see before we go any further.

 

 

http://www.armenianhighland.com/kings/ah.html

 

 

 

 

 

If you were referring to the religion, don't bother. Armenians only had good earthly gods(astvats-the god given) and the Creator(Ararich) of the universe. There was never a fight between the armo gods or good and evel. Armenians always belived on the superiority of the Creator. That's the secret behind our survival. Faith+culture. It's been said 'hay@ inch vor anum a lav a anum'. Whatever we do, we do with love and conviction. We have done it for so long, that it became part of our identity. The genetic memory is the driving force that kept us alive. Christian or Muslim, Hamshenci or Yerevanci, we just love to live.

 

Remember what William Saroyan said

 

"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered. Go ahead, destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them to the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches. Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a New Armenia."

 

 

A thing like this doesn't happen by accident.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[nairi]

Remember what William Saroyan said

 

"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature is unread, music is unheard, and prayers are no more answered. Go ahead, destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them to the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches. Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a New Armenia."

 

I still wonder where this quote is from.. The only one that I know goes:

 

"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose history is ended, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, whose literature is unread, whose music is unheard, whose prayers are no longer uttered.

 

Go ahead, destroy this race. Let us say that it is again 1915. There is war in the world. Destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them from their homes into the desert. Let them have neither bread nor water. Burn their houses and their churches. See if they will not live again. See if they will not laugh again. See if the race will not live again when two of them meet in a beer parlor, twenty years after, and laugh, and speak in their tongue. Go ahead, see if you can do anything about it. See if you can stop them from mocking the big ideas of the world, you sons of bitches, a couple of Armenians talking in the world, go ahead and try to destroy them."

 

There's nothing about creating a new Armenia.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

nairi, where you got your quote from?