phantom22 Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 If ALL Jews had rejected Christianity, Christianity would have ended with Jesus. Obviously SOME Jews did not reject Christianity. They formed the initial group of Christians. Until the Fourth Century there were numerous Christian Jews in what is now Turkey. At that time they "disappeared" from history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armena Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 Phantom, i don't know who are you or what your objective is in trying to portray Christianity as "jewish", but is seems to that you just might be one of those "Armenians" with jewish roots. although that is gentically not possible because Armenians are aryan and jews are Khazar/Semitic. style_images/master/snapback.png Completely true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 (edited) Aryan is a linguistic term, as is Semitic. Some Jews are descended from Khozars, yes. Genetically the term "Aryan" has no basis. East Indians speak an Aryan language. Are you saying that they are genetically similar to Swedes? A recent study showed that "race" is an elusive term as it found that certain Africans are genetically closer to Europeans than the adjacent tribe. It was based on factors other than skin color and outward features. Edited May 25, 2005 by phantom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsakh Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Pretty cool website: http://members.lycos.co.uk/yusufsdomain/media.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armena Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 http://www.gerlo.hu/hvall/enci/freemason.jpg http://www.conjurer.org/images/hexagram1.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaxias Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 A recent study showed that "race" is an elusive term as it found that certain Africans are genetically closer to Europeans than the adjacent tribe. It was based on factors other than skin color and outward features. style_images/master/snapback.png Which study? Conducted by? "Aryan" is irrelevant. Mexican mestizos speak an "Aryan" language also. Hungarians, Estonians, Basques etc. are all non-Aryan yet one of them is worth more than half of Iran or India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 ... are all non-Aryan yet one of them is worth more than half of Iran or India. style_images/master/snapback.png Geez? are you for real? You're now putting a value on race? Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Armena, Do you understand what the Crusades were all about? Its leaders were the progeny of Jesus' family returning to the East to reclaim their domain. In the beginning they were all followers of the Jewish faith. Christianity sprang from Judaism. It was an offshoot of Judaism. It was a Jewish "heresy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armena Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaxias Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Geez? are you for real? You're now putting a value on race? Give me a break. style_images/master/snapback.png Caulm down, take shower, drink, relax... Not on race per say, but on what the given race produces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 (edited) Armena, Then you understand that the corporal side of Jesus was not only a great spiritual teacher, but was also of noble blood. Edited May 26, 2005 by phantom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armena Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Armena, Then you understand that the corporal side of Jesus was not only a great spiritual teacher, but was also of noble blood. style_images/master/snapback.png Jesus was philosopher my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 As far as I understand the real masons have never made a effort to control structures, hierarchies or governments. They direct their efforts to control ideas and instill them in the right place, communicate to the right person in the right time. If you know someone is a mason or some society is masonic they are most likely an irrelevant elite club bored of their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 (edited) As far as I understand the real masons have never made a effort to control structures, hierarchies or governments. They direct their efforts to control ideas and instill them in the right place, communicate to the right person in the right time. If you know someone is a mason or some society is masonic they are most likely an irrelevant elite club bored of their life. style_images/master/snapback.png I would not be surprised if masons are not even doing that. There are all kinds of gossips and conspiracy theories around. Armena, why should we believe that the charts of the alleged organization of masons that you posted has a slightest connection with the reality. I am inclined to think that accusations of child rape, sacrificies, and all other accusations are a complete fabrication. Just give us one reason why we should believe that there is truth in what you and other anti-masons say. Do you have any material facts? Otherwise, what you are doing is slandering innocent people who may be part of masonic organizations, and creating a false image of that organization. I don't claim to know much about them, but I just refuse to believe that there is such a powerful and evil organization acting everywhere and it is invisible and undedectable. One must be either really naive, or have a strong bias that impedes an objective judgement to believe in such things without a shred of evidence. P.S. And of course, where there is an alleged global wrongdoing Jews are part of it, can't be otherwise. I hope you know what I mean by a strong bias. Edited May 26, 2005 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 The Masons stand for honor and truth. They are of the highest order. It is those who are threatened by these virtues who slander them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 I would not be surprised if masons are not even doing that. There are all kinds of gossips and conspiracy theories around. style_images/master/snapback.png Sasun, conspiracies are not always "theories". Don't we ourselves conspire against something every day? Isen't politics and economy all about conspiracy to advance individual interests? Why is it impossible that it is true for the highest levels of control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Sasun, conspiracies are not always "theories". Don't we ourselves conspire against something every day? Isen't politics and economy all about conspiracy to advance individual interests? Why is it impossible that it is true for the highest levels of control? style_images/master/snapback.png Armen, say more, I am not sure what you mean. I am too busy to think hard about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Self-interest is the KEY motivator of man. Truth and honor usually play a lesser role. The Masons were founded to challenge the corruption in the Roman Catholic Church. Today, most Masonic groups are not much more than social clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsakh Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 I found this online, perhaps you may find it interesting. You Have Questions . . . Here's the Personalized Answers! Why are Masons secretive? Q. I have a friend who has recently become a member of a Masonic Lodge. Of course, being a Mason, he won't tell me much other than it supports the bible and they must believe in GOD. I don't deny they do so many good things, however I do wonder. Why all the secrecy? Doesn't the Bible warn us of thing's done in secret? Any insight you could give me into the Mason's and how it measures up to GOD'S word would be greatly appreciated. (Submitted by: Lou) A. I have studied the Masonic movement for over three decades off and on as part of some other religious research I have been involved in. Thus I am aware of what "goes on" inside the organization and some of the history behind it. My husband's family were all involved in some way or another in the movement ... his dad was a Mason, his Mother very active in the local leadership of the women's auxiliary called the "Eastern Star." And my husband was part of the young men's auxiliary, called "DeMolay." And I was myself, as a teen, a member of the young women's auxiliary, called the "Rainbow Girls." Thus I've also had a first-person view of some aspects of the movement. After our marriage in 1965, and our conversion and baptism in 1968, we both came to the conclusion that there is no way that a Christian could, in good conscience, be involved in the Masonic movement . . . IF they know what actually goes on behind those closed doors of the local Lodge. In past decades, it was difficult for an "outsider" to find out much about those secret sessions. But the advent of the Internet has blasted those doors open. The following material is an excerpt from one of the many, many websites which discuss the inner workings of Freemasonry (official title of the movement commonly called "The Masons.") As far as I am aware, this is an accurate description of what goes on behind closed doors in a Masonic Lodge. And the concerns that the author of this piece shares are, I believe, concerns which every Christian considering joining the Masons should consider. There is much more at this website address, if you want to know more details. " Everyone who joins the local lodge joins what is called the Blue Lodge, the meeting center, and has to go through an initiation ceremony. Every Mason, including those in our churches today, have gone through this initiation; it is the only way you can get into the lodge. The first thing that happens is that a blindfold is put on them, a noose (called a cabletoll) is hung on their neck, their shirt is opened to bare their chest, and they are brought to the outer door of the lodge. There, a sharp point (of a compass or a dagger) is placed on their chest. Someone then asks, "Who comes?" to which candidate states "A poor, blind beggar looking to move from darkness to the light of Freemasonry." They are then brought (pulled by the noose) into the masonic lodge where they must bow at an altar. Behind the altar stands a man they call the Worshipful Master of the Lodge (the leader of the lodge). Again the candidate makes his plea for Freemasonry. After answering a series of questions, the mason to be takes a series of blood oaths and promises not to reveal the secrets of Freemasonry that he will learn -- upon having his throat cut from ear to ear. These are some of the actual oaths a Mason must take: In the first degree of the Blue Lodge, "Binding myself under no less a penalty, than having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out from its roots and buried in the rough sands of the sea..." In the second degree, "Binding myself under no less a penalty, than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out and given as prey to the wild beasts of the field and the foul of the air..." In the third degree (Master Mason Degree), "Binding myself under no less a penalty, than that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken from thence and burned into ashes..." For a Christian to go through this, you have to ask several questions: How can a follower of Jesus Christ, go to a Masonic Lodge, ask for membership, and say I am lost in darkness and I need the light of Freemasonry? If you read 1 John 1:6, it says, If you claim that you are lost in darkness the Light (of Jesus Christ) is not in you and you are living a lie. Secondly: How can a Christian bow at an altar before a man that is called the Worshipful Master? Jesus said, You cannot serve two masters. There is only one Worshipful Master and that is Jesus Christ. Lastly: How can a Christian take a pagan blood oath, swearing to have your throat cut from ear to ear, your heart given to the beasts of the field, your body cut in two and your bowels thrown into the sea? Those pagan blood oaths were forbidden by Jesus in Matthew chapter 5 and in the book of James. " (Excerpt from Web site at: www.ao.net/~jmo/john/personal/masons.html) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsakh Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 Armena, Do you understand what the Crusades were all about? Its leaders were the progeny of Jesus' family returning to the East to reclaim their domain. In the beginning they were all followers of the Jewish faith. Christianity sprang from Judaism. It was an offshoot of Judaism. It was a Jewish "heresy." style_images/master/snapback.png Do you know how many Jews the Christian Crusaders slaughtered? They considered both Muslims and Jews as infidels. If indeed christianity is a Jewish creation as you argue, then that means they have created a monster for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 It was not the Jews who created the monster, but the Gentiles. At the time of the Crusades Jesus' message had been lost. Do you realize how far the teachings of Christ have drifted in the past 20 centuries? Do you realize how many Christian persons have died at the hands of the Christian churches? Artsakh, You have bought a line of thinking that slanders both Masons and Jews. Now you are blaming Jews for the sins of Chrisitianity. As for Masons, their tradition of secretiveness developed at the time of the Inquisition. Revealing their secrets would have meant certain death for all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 phantom, can't you see that mr. artsakh here simply wants to blame the jews for everything? I bet he thinks the jews were behing 9/11, the Kennedy assasination and the pope's death a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaxias Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 phantom, can't you see that mr. artsakh here simply wants to blame the jews for everything? I bet he thinks the jews were behing 9/11, the Kennedy assasination and the pope's death a few months ago. style_images/master/snapback.png No, but they were behind the Armenian Holocaust, the one and only Holocaust that ever occured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armjan Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 No, but they were behind the Armenian Holocaust, the one and only Holocaust that ever occured. style_images/master/snapback.png u give 2 much credit to mankind, 5000 yrs of civilization and only 1 genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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