Guest Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Berj:Circassian,Sure they are victims. No question about that. Any minority in any multy-national country is a victim, no matter how good the central govt treats it. I have yet to see a minority who will say: "Our govt treats us good so we don't want independence".I just think that, specifically in case of the Nothern Caucasian nations (Circassians, Chechens, Ingushes, Dagestani people, Avars, Kabarda, Balkars, Karachais) the fastest way to different levels of self-determination eventually resulting in independence lies through active participation in the economic life of Russia. Taking into account that Russia is still deep in the region, the abrupt and painful millitary struggle could lead to inter-clan conflicts between all these nations.[ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: Berj ]BerjParticipating with russians in a commercial manner is exactly what I would suggest too.One difference , i would not have the "Animal Farm" set up they have in relation to muslims of russian entity.Russians do control the caucasus with a fear stick of what if's questions.As I stated before ; You want to trust russians to achieve the transformation to fully fledge democracy that of in league with western models.I sincerely do wish this to happen to but for the reasons that are so obvious I have little hope that they(russians) will actually achieve it.Still , it's better to trade then war I say.Did you know that the turkish firms are at the forefront of construction industry within russia.In fact I myself have involved in helping to modernise the structure of uzbekhistan & kazakhistan.Believe me when I say to you that the people are people everywhere , so it is same with ex-soviets. They want what you & I got Freedom & Democracy with an opportunity to make a decent living on this earth.The problem is the Russians are in charge of the delivery of this futuristic vision to those people. Happy waiting for them I say , experience shows that russians , when the going gets though , start with turkic minorities first(gulag, siberia, kirim turks , stalin )Brrrrrr No thanks , not again , we won't have it.I maybe open to persuasion provided that I have an armenian friend to keep me company on my way to exile - once again - to the "Desert of Siberia". [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: circassian ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Domino:Koko, like you can remark I poul out my discussion with Circassian. If you search any sincerity and a recognition discussion, you shoused the bad person. This guy will always finish by declaring that what happened to Armenians happened to his people. There is a hypocrasy hiden in this remark like you maybe remarked.His way works as this. Event A didn't happened, saying it happened is taking one side of a history(like there is two side of the extermination of a people), what ever happened to event A olso happened to Event B, B is a historical reality that happened for sure, there is no other side of the history for the fact that event B really happened.Like you see there is a logical contradiction on this. This is the bases of Circassian analyse of the situation. If everything that happened to A olso happened to B, then things that happened to B happened to A, but the event A didn't really happened from his logic since the event A desciption is only one side of the story, that mean that worst happened to B.Well, still he didn't provided me were the Circassians as an entire people were sent in a desert to burn in mass. Were Circassian orphans were injected with morphin then drowned in lakes, were it was illegal to Circassian to leave in order to catsh them and exterminate them. Were there was in the middle of deserts a fire consumed by corps to burn thousands in one shut.You will never have any honest answer from this guy, don't lose your time talking about the genocide with him, he is a programmed brainwashed guy. What do you expect from a fervent Grey wolf addict.His tricks I know them all, just don't enter in his game, of the poor victime being attacked.Hello DominoVacate the Sitting Bull's House , bailiffs are on their way with an eviction order issued by native indian council.Shame you don't speak enough turkish to understand ; --- aleme verir talkini kendi yutar salkimi.People in general have had enough of your wishy washy liberal bleeding agenda.Sense of direction for your efforts Domino ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 Here is a true hero for the whole of turkish nation http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/hur/turk/01/05/31/turkiye/09tur.jpg  Atatürk'ü 1919'da ölümden kurtaran Ermeni asıllı Türk vatandaşı Berç Keresteciyan Türker adına, ölümünden 50 yıl sonra Rotary 2420'nci Bölge Guvernörlüğü tarafından onur belgesi verildi. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk'ün 19 Mayıs 1919'da Samsun'a çıktığı geminin torpilleneceğini gizlice haber veren dönemin Osmanlı Bankası Genel Müdürü Berç Keresteciyan Türker'in onur belgesini, dün Cemal Reşit Rey Konser Salonu'nda düzenlenen törende Türkiye Ermenileri Patriği Mesrob 2'nin vekili Krikor Damadyan teslim aldı. Törende, tarihçi, yazar Cemal Kutay ve Türk dostu olarak bilinen ABD'li tarihçi, Prof. Dr. Justin McCarthy'ye de ‘‘Tarihi yapanlara sadık kalarak yazanlar ödülü’’ sunuldu. Prof. Dr. McCarthy sözde Ermeni soykırımına karşı, uzun vadeli savaş verilmesi gerektiğini belirterek, ‘‘Yalanlarla uğraşmak kolay değildir. Hata yapılırsa, belki sizin torunlarınız Erzurum, Kars ve Van'ı vermek zorunda kalacak’’ dedi.   Bandırma vapurunun torpilleneceğini haber verdi  Berç Keresteciyan Türker 1870 İstanbul doğumlu. Galatasaray ve Robert Kolej okullarında okudu. Çok iyi Osmanlıca, Fransızca, Ermenice, İngilizce, Rumca, Almanca, İtalyanca ve İspanyolca öğrendi. Mütarekede Osmanlı Bankası Müdürü ve Hilal-i Ahmer (Kızılay) Cemiyeti ikinci başkanı olarak görev yaptı. İstiklal Savaşı'nda sağlık malzemelerini takalarla İnebolu'ya taşıyanların başındaydı. 1919 yılı Mayıs ayında Atatürk ve arkadaşları deniz yoluyla Samsun'a gidecekleri sırada Berç Türker, Mustafa Kemal Paşa'ya, avukatı Sadeddin Ferit Bey (Talay) aracılığıyla, İngilizler’in Karadeniz'de gemiyi torpilleyeceğini gizlice haber verdi. Bunun üzerine Bandırma vapuru bilinen rotadan çıkarak kıyıdan seyretti. Sakarya savaşında kullanılan topların sökülmüş ateşleme mekanizmaları Türker'in borç verdiği 15 bin liralık şahsi tasarrufu ile Teşkilat-ı Mahsusa tarafından gizlice geri alındı.  To Domino  He must of been a racist & denialist right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadi Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 Look, Circassian, I didn't even adressed to you, so stop going after me on every occasions. And your supposed hero's, well he could fight as much as he wanted against West "invasion" this has nothing to do with the extermination of the Armenians. So again kip your hero's mixed with everything to show the genocide didn't happened. Your works such as. There was no genocide because peoples fought against the West invasion etc... bla...bla... bla... I see no any need of answering you, my job was well don of showing to the rest on this board your true clolr, so now let me alone on this board and stop to act like a glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2001 Report Share Posted May 31, 2001 Domino waw !!! simple no would of suffice. don't kid yourself ,you are not that important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berj Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 quote:Originally posted by circassian:Berj1.One difference , i would not have the "Animal Farm" set up they have in relation to muslims of russian entity.Russians do control the caucasus with a fear stick of what if's questions.2.I sincerely do wish this to happen to but for the reasons that are so obvious I have little hope that they(russians) will actually achieve it.3.Did you know that the turkish firms are at the forefront of construction industry within russia.4.The problem is the Russians are in charge of the delivery of this futuristic vision to those people. Happy waiting for them I say , experience shows that russians , when the going gets though , start with turkic minorities first(gulag, siberia, kirim turks , stalin )Brrrrrr No thanks , not again , we won't have it.Circassian,1.The "Animal Farm" was set up by the Bolsheviks, primarily against the Russians.2.What reasons?3.Yes, I new that.4.When the going gets tough, right? But why it get's tough, Who makes it tough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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