Definition of the word "genocide" in French Hache

[nairakev]

Definition of "genocide" in French Hachette Encyclopedia http://www.encyclo.voila.fr/

 

I thought this might interest some 'sang-froid' people, who need some strong arguments for their future battle.

Here is some literature.

Do not miss this. There are few lines but they actually say a lot more.

 

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Are there folks who can translate this from French into English. Please, avoid bublefish! ;-)

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Here is the URL of the "original" page http://encyclo.voila.fr/cgi-bin/frame?str=...0&multi=1&nbe=3

 

Voir aussi...

 

 

« Génocide » est un néologisme formé à partir du grec genos, « naissance, genre, espèce » – racine elle -même dérivée du sanskrit jánas -, « race, famille, grande famille patriarcale, postérité ». À cette racine grecque a été bizarrement adjoint un terme latin, caedere, « tuer ». Le génocide, homicide à l'échelle du genos et non plus de l'individu, est donc défini comme l'extermination intentionnelle, systématique et programmée d'un groupe ethnique, linguistique, national, religieux ou « racial ». Le terme apparaît pour la première fois dans un document officiel en octobre 1945, dans l'acte d'accusation du Tribunal militaire international à Nuremberg. L'apparition et l'emploi du mot, forgé pour tenter de définir les crimes perpétrés par les nazis sur les peuples juif et tzigane durant la Seconde Guerre mondiale, sont attachés d'une part à la volonté de la communauté internationale de punir un crime jusque -là inconnu dans le vocabulaire juridique pénal, d'autre part à la nécessité de qualifier la destruction systématique du peuple juif par l'État hitlérien.

 

En 1948, une Convention « pour la prévention et la répression du crime de génocide » fut approuvée à l'ONU, faisant entrer définitivement le mot dans le vocabulaire juridique. Mais elle se révéla très tôt purement formelle. Elle institua notamment le principe d'une juridiction pénale internationale mais sans qu'aucune cour ad hoc soit établie. En 1968, l'Assemblée générale de l'ONU retenait le caractère imprescriptible des crimes de guerre et des crimes contre l'humanité, dont le génocide. Cependant, certains États n'ont toujours pas ratifié ces conventions.

 

 

Chronologie (1894): Massacre des Arméniens en Turquie

En 1969, la mention, dans un rapport de la Convention, des massacres d'Arméniens perpétrés par les Jeunes-Turcs en 1894 -1895 et entre 1915 et 1916 ouvrit un vaste débat : une partie de la communauté juive s'éleva contre l'emploi du mot, invoquant le caractère unique du génocide juif (unicité affirmée par les termes, eux aussi discutés, d'«Holocauste » ou de «Shoah ») ; de son côté, la Turquie s'opposa également à ce qu'on reconnaisse ces faits comme génocide. La mention fut retirée du rapport paru en 1979. En mai 1998, en France, l'Assemblée nationale a voté un texte de loi qui proclame, dans son unique article : « La France reconnaît publiquement le génocide arménien de 1915. » Mais la portée réelle de ce texte en fait une simple résolution : il n'y a aucune définition du mot « génocide »; le gouvernement français, en affirmant aussitôt que cette proclamation ne concernait en rien la Turquie contemporaine, ne résout pas la question de la continuité de l'État et de ses responsabilités historiques, assumées ou non.

 

En fait, la reconnaissance d'un génocide suppose la condamnation des responsables par l'État concerné. Mais, compte tenu des moyens qu'ils impliquent, les génocides ne peuvent être commis que par des États ou avec leur complicité, ce qui rend aléatoire la recherche des responsables et très hypothétique leur condamnation par l'État lui-même. Ce paradoxe n'a pu être dépassé à Nuremberg que parce que l'Allemagne nazie était un État vaincu.

 

 

Chronologie (1994): Génocide au Rwanda

L'emploi du terme en dehors du cadre juridique suscite, là encore, une vive polémique : doit -il s'appliquer exclusivement à l'extermination du peuple juif, ou peut -il également qualifier d'autres crimes semblables, passés (Biafra ) ou futurs ? Si le génocide des Juifs par le IIIe Reich ne fait aucun doute – la mise en œuvre effective de l'extermination étant amplement prouvée, à la fois par les écrits nationaux-socialistes et par les témoignages des rescapés des camps d'extermination –, l'application du terme à d'autres peuples, ethnies ou groupes humains est l'objet de débats byzantins. Ces querelles reflètent les positions idéologiques de ceux qui y prennent part, ce qui ne contribue pas à éclaircir le sens concret du mot. En revanche, la prise de conscience des implications non seulement morales mais aussi politiques des génocides et de leur possibilité concrète est quasi générale, comme l'ont démontré par exemple les événements survenus au Rwanda, au Congo démocratique et dans diverses républiques de l'ex-Yougoslavie dans les années 1990 -1999.

[Guest Fadi]

Well nairi I will translate it if you find me worthy translator. Read my translation of Aznavour poem, and say me if I am a worthy one. :-)

 

But this text in question is the restrictive version of the word and not the one of the UN. But still it's kind of they try to include 1894-1896, I just can not compare these two events with each other.

 

My Petit Robert, that is not with me now give the same definition as well as the Petit Larouse. Le Petit Robert talk about the genocide and give two example, the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide. But surprising as it is, the "name" version of le petit Robert give 2 million victimes and not the more used 1,5 million.

[nairakev]

Salut Domino!
Enfin encore un francophone, on en a marre de ce "putain" de yankees (Remarque: ce n'était qu'un relâchement imprudent de ma part!) Mais tant pis je vais pas me reprendre. Les Yankees, sont nos amis, bien evidemment!

Where can I read, Aznavour's poem translated by you?

Domino! Why Hachette! Because it is one of the biggest publishing houses in France. There are tones of education manuals which actually are published mostly by Hachette for French youngsters and schoolchildren.

The URL I gave here is the online version of Hachette, which is available through Voila.fr

Voila.fr is the leading French portal (the most important search engine, backed by France Telecom). I guess you know all this.

Hachette Encyclopedia is less prestigious and complete as LaRousse (IMHO), but it is wide-spread all over francophonie, as Larousse.

[ May 31, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

[nairakev]

Domino, my name is Naira!

[MJ]

And here is its phenomenological definition:

http://armenians.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimat...c&f=10&t=000040

[Guest Fadi]

Salut Naira

 

Les Yankees nos amis ? Je n’ai pas encore d’opinion à ce sujet Puis-je conclure que tu te trouves en France ? Moi je suis de Montréal.

 

Well lets continue in English if we don’t want to be pout in order, by saying that this board is an English one Even if Armenians now should have a lots of respect for the only Western country that had the guts to recognise the genocide. And they should start to learn a little of French to show their respects

 

Thanks for the information, the links etc… it is better for me to read in French but the biggest sources on the net are English, so I end up of being a little ignorant of French sources. But the Turks have don good denialist sites in French olso, there is one on my mind that is a very imposing one.

 

Ah as for Aznavour poem here it is.

http://armenians.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimat...c&f=10&t=000154

 

here is the orginal, it’s the second post.

http://armenians.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimat...c&f=10&t=000153

[nairakev]

Most these definitions are just helping us.

Just helping! They are gently agree with what we aim to say!

I do not beleive in big effect of definitions, until we didn't find the right use of them to help us advance in our Genocide Recognition movement.

 

One of ways to advance is "convincing" those intellectuals who affirm "the uniqueness of holocaust", following way "la communauté juive s'éleva contre l'emploi du mot, invoquant le caractère unique du génocide juif (unicité affirmée par les termes, eux aussi discutés, d'«Holocauste » ou de «Shoah »)"

 

This is not a myth. This tendency exists among jewish intellectuals. And there are many followers. I wonder, if somone have already read this book. I'm badly curious to hear some impressions.

 

I picked this info from Amazon.com

'The Banality of Indifference: Zionism & the Armenian Genocide'

by Auron Yair

---

Publisher: Transaction Publishers

Place of Publication: New Brunswick, NJ

Date of Publication: 2000

Edition: First Printing

Condition: Fine in fine dj (mylar), a NEW copy ($39.95 price)

Keywords: Armenia-Massacres, Genocide-Armenian, Palestine-Jews, Zionism-History, isbn 1560004126

[nairakev]

t'es canadz-z-zienn, alors!
Ah, ke c'est romantsik!
Et ton charmant accent, je l'entend dézormais.

Yeah, there are plenty of turkish sites, spreading desinformation on Genocide issues. I quit visiting them for now, because you just get fed up, after all this bullshit.
Well, I got to go, my working day is over.
Catch you later in the night.

[nairakev]

Ehe!
This is cool! Terrific. Coundn't be funnier!
How much barels of oil did promise Aliyev this time? Did "European Council" recognise also the Genocide of Turks by Armenians in 1915?
Domino do you have any links to that resolution of European Council?
I'm interested.

[nairakev]

I never doubted that this someone did read it.
So, does that someone has any impressions?

[MJ]

Yes. He he has an impressions that this book is only the tip of the iceberg. In fact, this is also suggested by the author of the book.

[nairakev]

He he has an impressions that this book is only the tip of the iceberg.

Tell me about it!

 

In fact, this is also suggested by the author of the book.

Is this the only common point that unites him and the author?

[MJ]

[QB]He has an impressions that this book is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

Naira - Tell me about it!

 

It's a long story. Some day, when I get rid of the pile on my desk, I'll do it.

 

In fact, this is also suggested by the author of the book.

Naira - Is this the only common point that unites him and the author?

 

No. The author comes across as a rather common sense person, therefore there would be, I suspect, a lot of things uniting the two of them.

[nairakev]

The author comes across as a rather common sense person, therefore there would be, I suspect, a lot of things uniting the two of them.

I thought there won't be anything else that will healingly unite this two "square-heads", lost in multi-personalism. Looks like complete harmony, the one who reads trusts the one who writes. What a complicity, what a rare mutuality!

 

[ May 31, 2001: Message edited by: naira ]

[MJ]

This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so many live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it were, away from themselves and vanish like shadows. Their immortal souls are blown away, and they are not disquieted by the question of its immortality, because they are already disintegrated before they die.

 

Soren Kierkegaard

[nairakev]

Wine? Champagne? Beer? ... No?
.............................
And me?...
I'll take some Champagne! I love watching melo-drama in solitude with a glass of cool Champagne.
What was the story? Ah, yeah!
" ...the tamed despot meets his cured victim ..." I'm gonna drop a tear!

[MJ]

Bread and chocolate would be just right…

[nairakev]

American food? No thanks.

[MJ]

Yes, someone has read it - at least most of it.

[Guest Fadi]

Ui je sui'québecoi...

 

At least for the denialist sites in French, I never lose to email them, to correct some of their lies, one of them is that the European Concil has signed a resolution that recognise the Azerbaijani genocide perpetred by Armenians ehehe... I emailed them so many times without having recieved any mails ehe...

[MJ]

How about French?

[nairakev]

MJ,
What's happening to you, sweet hart?
Are you sure you wanna go private?
Call me, if you wanna offer me some French food! Actually, it requires lots of delicacy.
The way you are trained, I'm sure you'll find it, when needed.
Je te laisse pour l'instant, mon petit!

[MJ]

Naira,

 

I just was saying that "Bread and Chocolate" is French, without any hints of "going private.

 

But as Russians say, "Tem ni menee, khod tvoikh mislii mne nravitsia."

[nairakev]

Originally posted by MJ:

[QB]Naira,

 

I just was saying that "Bread and Chocolate" is French, without any hints of "going private.

Yeah! I was just a dreamer, right? What else you were saying, while typing "Bread and Choclate"?

 

Common, baby, don't waste our mutual time. Say your word, or quit, I'm not going to sing "Jumping Jack Flash", in guessing what are at you and where are you at.

"I know that you know that I know", capici?

 

But as Russians say, "Tem ni menee, khod tvoikh mislii mne nravitsia."

"Mne toje nravitsa khod moikh mislei. A esho bolshe nravitsa, kogda slishou ob etom ot tebia?" Are we happy, now?

[MJ]

Now that we are both happy, perhaps we could go back to the subject of the thread?

 

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]