Bizarre

[khodja]

As President Reagan had said, "Don't agitate the Mother alligator until you have crossed the bayou." Now that the Republican have taken over the country, we Armenians are expendable. As for Israel, it is not the Jews who have power with these guys but the born-again Christians who are vehemently pro-Israel. As for the Turks that is a business situation (oil) and military situation (Iraq).

[Boghos]

Dear Martin,

 

So you are putting more importance to Armenia´s misguided foreign and even domestic policies rather than the fact that Turkey has become even more important to the US ? Is the US sending Russia and/or Iran a message ? Armenia will soon see elections...Robik will likely remain in power...is there any hope for any pragmatism ? I know these are long questions especially for Sunday afternoon...sorry.

 

As to Republicans and freedom, this is a very long subject that should be discussed in a thread by itself, I think.

 

[ December 15, 2002, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[Boghos]

In other words, it is not a matter of race, but rather of political and/or economical importance. Not race. It has always been like that and it will always be like that.

[khodja]

Boghos,

 

You live in Brazil, where Africans have reached the pinnacles of financial success for decades. You do not understand the US. As such, your conclusions are too simplistic.

[MJ]

Dear Boghos,

 

I definitely am putting a very serious responsibility on Armenia’s government, and some on the Armenian lobbying organizations. However, the failure of the lobbying organizations is a consequence of the Armenian domestic status quo.

 

I think Turkey has attained significant importance in the region – more than ever, and Armenia has demonstrated irrelevance.

 

I think Russia will be on-board with US regardless of their rhetoric. As to Iran, I think the message could not be any stronger. But Iran is another complex landscape, with 60% or more (?) population under 30 years old.

 

Yes, I think Robik will stay in power – bad news but reality. An immediate reaction would be unwillingness of investors to come forward and further reduction of foreign aid. The consequence? More wors of the worst things that we have now!

[Boghos]

Hagarag, please refrain from talking about subjects that you obviously know very little about.

 

[ December 15, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[khodja]

I know that Brazil is not as race-conscious as the US and that numerous mixed-race people are at the upper echelons of Brazilian society.

 

What do you know of struggle, Boghos? You are the "fils-a-papa" of an affluent medical professional who has never had to worry where your next meal is coming from. My papa, scion of one of the wealthiest Armenian families in Turkey had to work as a "hammal" in Paris and struggled for years before becoming an engineer. I have had to endure every type of job, including cleaning toilets to get my education. You conservatives all deserve the fate of Marie Antoinette!!!!!!!

[Boghos]

Yes, yes, you know I just came back from a short but nice trip to a beautiful island just off the coast. I forgot that there is no point in attempting any sort of civilized discussion with you. So long.

[khodja]

Boghos,

 

The one who you and so many other here admire has treacherously stabbed us in the back. I can not have any kind of civilized discusson under these circumstances. I ardently supported Bradley, the only candidate who was pro-Armenian, and then the lesser of the two evils, Gore. I knew what was coming with Bush/Cheney.

[MJ]

Dorogoi St. Vahan,

 

Ne do urokov russkogo yazika. Kak ne pechl'no, on teryaetsya ot neypotrblenya.

 

Kak vizhu, c krizisnogo polozhenia eshche ne vishel? Ne garyui, muzhik, vse eto vremenno.

 

P.S. Don't be flattered with the title "St." It's just a joke.

[Boghos]

It seems you have tremendous difficulty understanding what people write and prefer to believe whatever you want. For the record: I never supported or had any sympathy for Bush or the Republicans. If my family had been established in the US we would have voted Democrat for generations. That is one of the reasons why I say that you do not have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. I have had enough, take your "ad hominem" "arguments" somewhere else.

[Boghos]

Incredible..I think we have been seriously underestimating the influence Turkey and its lobbyists have attained. I am not sure, however, that this will be such a major coup against Armenia and Armenians, yet. Let´s see what happens next..

 

As to the Republican agenda: it doesn´t make me happy seeing the US turn into a semi-police state, the religious right having so much influence and the Judiciary moving into ever more conservative territory. These are not exactly free spirit oriented. But I don´t think that this announcement has anything to do with Republican ideology, but more of a sad coincidence...

 

[ December 15, 2002, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[Azat]

ANCA official from LA Steve Terterian has confirmed that unless they are able to put a stop to this Armenia will be added to the list of Terrorist countries. They are asking all to send emails and Faxes to Condoleezza Rice and Bush and your senators and Reps.

 

EDIT: Sorry too many spelling errors

 

[ December 15, 2002, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Azat ]

[MJ]

This message was distributed to the "ANCA News" list. If you

received this message in error or would like to be removed from the

list, send an e-mail with "Please Remove" in the subject heading to

anca@anca.org. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience

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and family, who you know would be interested in this issue. Please

note that sending unsolicited e-mail is considered "spam" and is

illegal.

***********************************************************

ANCA Press Release

12/16/2002

 

Armenian National Committee of America

888 17th Street NW Suite 904

Washington, DC 20006

Tel: (202) 775-1918

Fax: (202) 775-5648

E-mail: anca@anca.org

Internet: www.anca.org

 

PRESS RELEASE

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

December 16, 2002

Contact: Elizabeth S. Chouldjian

Tel: (202) 775-1918

 

BUSH ADMINISTRATION REVISES I.N.S. POLICY ON REQUIRING

REGISTRATION OF ARMENIAN NATIONALS IN THE UNITED STATES

 

-- Grassroots Campaign Generates Over

10,000 ANCA WebFaxes in 24 Hours

 

WASHINGTON, DC - The White House today reversed a controversial

Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) proposal, published as

an official government document this morning in the Federal

Register, to include Armenia on a list of countries whose non-

immigrant male nationals over the age of 16 would be required to

register and report their movements to the INS, reported the

Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).

 

The Bush Administration's action follows extensive discussions over

the weekend between Congressional friends of Armenia,

Administration officials, the Armenian Government, and Armenian

American community leaders, as well as a broad-based grassroots

campaign initiated by the ANCA to alert President Bush to the

gravity of the Armenian American community's concerns on this

matter. Since news of this development first broke on the evening

of Friday, December 13, the Armenian Government has been in

constant contact with the U.S. Administration.

 

Within the first 24 hours of issuing an action alert, over 10,000

ANCA WebFaxes were sent to the President expressing the Armenian

American community's profound opposition to this action. The ANCA,

along with a broad-based coalition of Armenian American groups,

worked to resolve this issue with senior Administration officials,

Armenian Americans with close ties to the White House, the

Congressional Armenian Caucus, and key foreign policy figures.

 

"While we remain deeply troubled by the item appearing today in the

Federal Register, we are gratified that this issue was brought to

the attention of senior Administration officials and in the end

reason prevailed. We expect that today's decision will be

immediately reflected in the Federal Register," said Aram

Hamparian, Executive Director of the ANCA. "The Administration has

made clear - time and again - that it appreciates Armenia's role as

a strong partner in the war on terrorism and has gone on record

several times praising the Armenian people for their cooperation in

this vital undertaking. This point was underscored to us over the

past several days by Administration officials who assured us that

this situation needed to be rectified because it ran counter to the

spirit of U.S.-Armenia relations."

 

"Our community, proud of the enduring ties between the American and

Armenian peoples, responded quickly and powerfully on this issue,

generating a series of high-level contacts into the Administration

and, at the grassroots level, producing over 10,000 ANCA WebFaxes -

from all 50 states - into the White House in just a day," added

Hamparian.

 

Armenia was one of the first countries to join with the United

States in the global war on terrorism. Recognizing this fact,

President Bush, in April of this year, made a point of underlining

the American people's appreciation of this cooperation and the

enduring partnership between the American and Armenian peoples.

 

Commenting today in Yerevan, NATO European Commander, General John

Ralston said that he is well aware of the support Armenia has shown

in the U.S. war on terror. He claimed, however, to not be aware of

such decisions to include Armenia on the list of nations whose

nationals are required to register with the INS in the U.S. "I

understand the concerns of the Armenian citizens in this matter and

I will immediately inform the US State Department of these

concerns," stated the General.

 

The Fresno Bee, reporting on the ANCA's grassroots campaign,

described its "Internet-based lobbying effort, which in just one

day bounced some 10,000 protest faxes to the White House, of which

an estimated 60 percent came from California. The organization has

also been mobilizing calls to both the White House and the 100-plus

members of the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues." The paper

quoted ANCA's Hamparian as saying that, "The one thing that struck

me about this was the speed with which the Armenian community

responded. We've never gotten a 24-hour response like this."

[MJ]

What did they discuss? Did the government of Armenia promise something?

[Azat]

Darn, MJ you always beat me to good news.

 

Good job on behalf of everyone who participated on the email/webfax effort. Only if we could be united on other things just think how powerful a diaspora we would have.

[MJ]

The unexplained mystery is, however, what was the basis of the INS resolution in the first place?

[gamavor]

This was the first time when I ever decided to e-mail anybody with respect to an Armenian Issue. If someone from the State Department was in front of me when I first heard the news I would have beat him (illegally) badly.

[gamavor]

MJ, I have kind of explanation for that development which is purely based on the news from the media from the last 6 months. I'm afraid if I post this (I'm still thinking to do so:))it will be full of inappropriate language.

 

The bottom line is, just like in old Roman times.

If an article in New York Times or some other huge media says that someone's sister is a whore, then go ahead and proof that, that someone has no sister at all.

[khodja]

Was this all a sick joke? Or was the Bush administration planning a payback to Turkey for use of it's bases? Bravo to American Armenians. Do you really think that we will ever be taken for granted again. An oil lobbyist once said "We have seen the Armenians' bark, now let us see their bite." Well, they have seen our first bite.

We should not be taken for granted by ANY ADMINISTRATION. Despite the Republican's gains the US government is still split almost 50/50. The upcoming elections may still be very close. WE should not be perceived to be in anyone's pocket.

[Twilight Bark]

This was so absurd that one should think it was not intended to stick as law. However, it probably was intended to stick to average newspaper reader's mind: "Armenia? Oh yeah, wasn't it on the pariah-state list?". I doubt that the "correction" will get any press.

 

Anti-Armenianism is still a very tolerable concept in America; nobody gets red-faced about it. While ANCA should be congratulated in this instance, some of their past actions only encouraged the antiarmenians. Who could take them seriously when they decided to "support" Clinton against Bob Dole, when they thought that the latter was sure to lose. If a huge Armenian organization shows so little loyalty to its greatest ally, it might as well say "Hey guys, we are the punching bag you are looking for".

 

I was tempted to write this in an earlier thread concerning "clash of civilizations" and how Armenia might benefit (!!!) from it. I can't quite remember who it was that said it could be a good thing for Armenia. What folly! The clash of civilizations is already underway, except that the US is never going to call it that. And what better way to demonstrate its "religion-neutral" credentials than using a few expendable "Christian states" (the other obvious candidate is naturally off-limits) as punching bags, and boast of its close friendship with a "muslim" ally, Turkey.

 

If there still are naive souls out there hoping to milk our "status" as "the first Christian nation", I desperately hope that they have woken up. I somehow doubt it though.

 

My tentative explanation is that this was cooked up as a no-lose (for the antiarmenians) prank. If it stuck, great. If it didn't stick as law, it will as memory and impression; again pretty good. And the bonus is that it acted as a probe to gauge the readiness, resolve, and resources of the Armenian lobby, so they know what to expect next time.

 

We lost something at the end of the day.

[MJ]

I beg to differ on the subject expressed in the last several posts.

 

"Anti-Armenianism" is a non-existent category in the US policy towards Armenia. Armenia(ns) is nothing for America to be "anti."

 

Armenia is a half-breathing country with a Diaspora in agony.

 

I would rather think this incident has to be qualified as "message to Armenia."

 

I still have a question: are there any active/inactive terrorist organizations functioning/registered in Armenia?

 

Question 2: Does Armenia stand for something other then "preservation?"

 

Question 3: Does Armenia has government?

 

If yes, then

 

Question 4: What has the government of Armenia done in the past 4 years or so?

 

Finally, I think this incident, again, is characteristic of our mass psychology - "whatever it is, it is just someone else’s fault. They just don't like us because we are too smart."

 

But I may be wrong - "these Americans may be too stupid to understand how important we are. They may not even know that we are the first Christian nation in history and they don't understand that they owe us big time for it. They haven't even sent us their payments, yet, for quite some time."

[Boghos]

1. Does Armenia harbor terrorist groups ? Who would they be aside from some Kurds and a handful of Asala left-overs ? So the questions still stands.

 

2. Armenia stands for more than preservattion. But at this poinf this is an article of faith not of fact.

 

3. Government ? If that means a body of people with the minimum possible interest in the destinies of the nation, then clearly not. Even the Tashnaks would be better.

[Arpa]

The morning after?

Zghjoum?

ARAMAC has already recanted and corrected the error saying that there

"Armenia is not on that list". However some of us would have loved if there were such a list. That would have given a legitimate reason to gripe against America, i.e bite the hand that feeds them.

PS. If need be I cannot repost the latest bulletin from Aramac.

[khodja]

Twilight Bark,

 

I personally was thrilled when ANCA endorsed Clinton. For all of Dole's advocacy for Armenians what influence does he have, if any, among his colleagues inthe Republican Party? Just remember that Clinton allowed the Genocide Resolution to come to the floor of the US House and only when he got an urgent call from Peres in the middle of the night, after Sharon had walked on a Moslem Holy place in Jerusalem (done specifically to agitate the Palestinians, to help his candidacy)did Clinton use his influence to quelch the Resolution. The Bush Administration, on the other hand, overtly insulted us. This was not a reaction but an overt action. As such, this was much more malevolent than Clinton's actions.