A question for all Armenians.

[LK82]

Before you read what I've wrote, please try to view it from an open-mind perspective, thank you.

 

Also, if what you read angers you, or dissapoints you, feel free to voice your opinion and please, do explain why, thank you.

 

 

 

A question to all Armenians

 

Pick one of the scenerios, either A or B.

 

Armenia and Turkey

 

 

 

A ) The republic of Armenia and Turkey have successfully come to an agreement over the Armenian genocide debate. The conditions for their agreement are as follows.

 

1. Turkey will recognize Artsax and the surrounding areas as the land belonging to the republic of Armenia.

2. Turkey must invest money into the economic growth of Armenia, thru investing in banks which concentrate on issuing business loans to individuals and small business.

3. Turkish government will not deny the Armenian community living in Turkey, the right to educate their young on the Armenia and Turkish war, which lead to the tragic deaths of many Armenians, young and old.

4. America will invest into the economic growth of Armenia within the executive branches of government. In return the government will also be in a position to employ more of its citizens.

5. Armenia will be given the opportunity to purchase some lands in question during the Armenian genocide debate. The land allowed to be purchased will be chosen based on economic standards by the Armenian government.

 

(All the above will only work if the leaders of Armenia are motivated to improve Armenia’s condition. They must form an organization within the government in charge of bringing employment into Armenia; their main focus will be law firms, accounting firms, in time a new university drawing in students from neighboring countries, a good soccer team capable of winning world cup, clothing manufacturers, and parts assemblies for automobiles).

 

B ) Armenia and Turkey are still at odds over the dialog used to describe the Armenian genocide. Armenia calls it genocide, while Turkey defends its position by saying it was an act of war, during a time of war, all deaths were causalities of war.

 

The Armenian community is not backing down, and insists that Turkey accept the fact of genocide.

Turkey is stubbornly insisting there has been no such thing as genocide, and promises to deny any acceptance of such a thing.

Armenia and Armenians around the world have not lost hope, every year on April 24th the remembrance is echoed throughout the world wherever an Armenian community exists.

With hopes of seeing a blooming Armenia one day, are we neglecting the opportunity to have one today?

Edited April 8, 2008 by LK82

[gamavor]

Point 2. No need for such thing. Turkish investments into Armenian economy would have devastating effect. Turkish business practices are far from best business practices known.

 

Point 5. Ridiculous. It basically states that you would be allowed to buy something that is yours. Total nonsense.

 

The "tragic events" are not war casualties, rather systematic annihilation of native population inhabiting the area known to the world as ARMENIA, occupied after the fall of Byzantium by barbaric Turks and with the help of bastard Europeans transformed into today's Republic of Turkey.

 

[AVO]

You're dreaming friend. Turkey wants nothing more then to complete the job it started in 1100's. They will never feel safe until the original inhibitors are wiped off the area.

 

 

[garmag]

You're dreaming friend. Turkey wants nothing more then to complete the job it started in 1100's. They will never feel safe until the original inhibitors are wiped off the area.

 

Did you not mean INHABITERS?

[Yervant1]

I hope you won't be the one to negotiate with turkey when that day arrives!

Sorry the truth is not for sale.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Good point Yervant. We don't negotiate the truth!

Genocide is not just any kind of a crime when you sit with the opposite side and try to find a commond ground. People who commit genocidal act, do so driven out hate. The turks from turkey and azerbaijan will do everything in their power to kill ever single armenian on the face of the earth.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'. If you are people with honor and dignity, accept your fault, apologize for what you did, and live a life based on moral principals.

[LK82]

Thanks to all of you for responding.

 

The objective of the post is not to send any signal to any organization, nor is it to rally any support for any cause. I’m an Armenian, and a student. I too have lost ancestors in the Armenian Genocide and I too have the right as an Armenian to express my views on how to make Armenia better for Armenians, as well as being strong enough to defend itself from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

In my eyes, the Armenian genocide can never be forgotten, and April 24th is not the only time I remember this disastrous event in history.

When I see my grandmother, or look at pictures of my ancestors who should’ve lived long enough to see life past the ages 13 and 15, but instead were massacred, I see nothing but mostly hate and anger. Unfortunately hate and anger is like using one shovel to dig the New York tunnel, it is not the solution I’m looking for in myself or as a person.

 

There is no alternative to recognition, and there is no alternative for deniers of the truth.

That is my personal opinion, in some posts I will state my personal opinions, and in others I will try to keep my personal opinions separate from a logical and productive approach to issues.

 

Gamavor- Turkish investments into our economy, doesn’t translate into Turkish involvement in our society or economy. We can work for a negotiation thru the IMF where Turkey will be the guarantee of the loan, and IMF will transfer the funds into the designated bank accounts belonging to the Armenian Government. This amount will be non refundable. (Negotiations should start at 30 billion Euro currencies)

 

Our lands are occupied, that’s true. What would you suggest as a way to get them back? If there is a realistic solution that comes to your mind, please comment, the purpose of this thread is for you to do so.

 

 

Avo- Yes friend, Turkey cannot be trusted so easily; also Turkey does not trust Armenia either. Why I point this out is because since they do not trust us, this gives us more reason to be on the look-out for another blow.

If they’re in the process of “wiping us out of the area” then what is our process in counter to that. I myself am willing to go to many extremes to defend Armenia, and so are many other Armenian men. To wait for a situation to escalate into an extreme before finding a solution would be the wrong approach.

 

Yervant1- You don’t know me well enough to comment about me personally, therefore your statement fell on deaf ears. I’m not selling anything to anyone, so don’t respond to me as if I was trying to sell anything to you or anyone else. Last I checked this was a forum to discuss issues and, this discussion among intelligent people might one day lead to a solution every Armenian can be proud of.

I would appreciate it if you would either enter the discussion as mentioned above or kindly leave this room. Thanks.

 

Aratta-Kingdom- Genocides are not only done from hate, they have geo-political reasons as well. The Armenian genocide is proof to this. Azerbaijan will do many things if we allow them to, and Azerbaijan can also be negotiated with. All countries can be negotiated with; all problems can have logical solutions if hatred and fear is removed from the equation. Those who solve problems with hatred and fear, explode buildings with bombs strapped around their chest. If you want a solution to Armenia’s problems based on hate and fear, go do it yourself, don’t take the rest of our young Armenian population along with you. Armenia is located in hostile territory; rhetoric that instigates fear and promotes war will lead to more Armenian deaths and a less likely victory.

(By the way, you think Turkey and Azerbaijan don’t want war? You think they wouldn’t want to kill as many young Armenian men as they did once before so they can knock our country back another 100 years?)

 

Every year this site gets fools? What makes you think this site doesn’t have fools who are here year round? What’s your point? Keep this thread for conversations that will help Armenia and our cause, I think I saw a thread that you can express how you feel about this site, I suggest you go find it and vent.

 

[garmag]

.....

There is no alternative to recognition, and there is no alternative for deniers of the truth.

That is my personal opinion, in some posts I will state my personal opinions, and in others I will try to keep my personal opinions separate from a logical and productive approach to issues.[/i]

.....

 

Hi LK82,

 

It is commendable to be imaginative and visionary with wishfull scenarios.

The obvious outcome of your projections are totally dependent on our opponents, not to say enemies...

Since turkic invasions of our homeland, there has never been an instance of good will shown to Armenians by turkic/ tataric races up till NOW!

 

As it takes two sides abiding themselves in finding solutions... this has been an ongoing process since 1990's in the case of Artsakh, where the Azery side does not stop treatening war and invasion today, to free Artsakh from Armenians?.

 

Turkic policies and plans are geared only for the eradication of Armenians, based on history and recent blockades...

For the first time via Artsakh, Armenia imposed a recuperation of a historically Armenian land, at the same time gaining a semblance of respect from our past masters...

 

What avenues other then self defence, do you propose to open a dialogue based on equality with our nemesis?

Co-operation and brotherly love, as well as bending sideways in 1900's, resulted in AG of 1915.

 

The day a wolf genuinely befriends and does not devour a lamb, maybe we can dialogue then.

Good luck.

[Takoush]

I hope you won't be the one to negotiate with turkey when that day arrives!

Sorry the truth is not for sale.

I like the above wording. The truth IS NOT FOR SALE.

 

The turks will never negotiate with us and we don't want them nor do we need them. We will get when the time comes with either our own intellects or with our fists.

 

Personally, I don't want the borders to be opened. I don't foresee anything good coming out of it. And I hope soon we'll attach Naxichevan to Armenia along with Artsax.

 

Also, point 5 doesn't make sense at all; because our lands that belonged to us for thousands of years are simply ours. We will get them one way or the other, that's it!!

 

 

Edited April 8, 2008 by Takoush

[Aratta-Kingdom]

1. "Aratta-Kingdom- Genocides are not only done from hate, they have geo-political reasons as well."

 

 

 

oh really so you have a new defenition of genocide?

 

 

 

 

2. "The Armenian genocide is proof to this."

 

 

 

a. are you saying millions of unarmed armenians who were the citizens of turkey were "geo-political reasons"?

 

b. if that the case, why do the governements of turkey and azerbaijan don't wast an effort to erase all the names that are somehow associated with the armenians?

 

 

 

 

 

3. "Azerbaijan will do many things if we allow them to, and Azerbaijan can also be negotiated with."

 

poor creature. are you saying either the armenians should negotiate with the azeris or else...?

 

 

 

 

 

4. "All countries can be negotiated with; all problems can have logical solutions"

 

 

save it!

 

 

 

 

 

5. "if hatred and fear is removed from the equation."

 

genocide is a crime of hate. turks from turkey and azerbaijan are guilty of crimes against humanity.

 

 

 

 

6. "Those who solve problems with hatred and fear, explode buildings with bombs strapped around their chest."

 

(edited), you don't solve problems with hatred and fear. the muslims extremists have done must serious crimes than 'explode buildings with bombs strapped around their chest'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

7. "If you want a solution to Armenia's problems based on hate and fear, go do it yourself, don't take the rest of our young Armenian population along with you."

 

 

why are you attacking turkish 'hate', 'exploding buildings with bombs strapped around their chest' with the armenians?

 

 

 

 

8. "Armenia is located in hostile territory; rhetoric that instigates fear and promotes war will lead to more Armenian deaths and a less likely victory."

 

 

i didn't take much for you to open your cards are you again saying negotiate with the turks or else...?

 

 

 

 

 

9. (By the way, you think Turkey and Azerbaijan don't want war? You think they wouldn't want to kill as many young Armenian men as they did once before so they can knock our country back another 100 years?)"

 

 

back another 100 years? when did it happen? are you talking about the Artsak war? in Artasak beside the turks and their azeri brothers, there were thousands of muslim terrorits from all parts of the worls? do i need to remind you how the azeri government has used the hate card to turn their people and the muslim terrorists against the armenians? do i need to reming you what happened next?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10. Every year this site gets fools?

 

 

 

Why did you leave some context out of my post? 'Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

11. "What makes you think this site doesn't have fools who are here year round?"

 

in case you haven't noticed, i'm one of them. you got a problem with that? this is an armenian forum and i'm the village idiot...and for as long as you are here spreading all kind of nonsense about Armenia/Armenains and the Armenian Genocide, you gonna have to deal with me.

 

 

 

 

12.What's your point?

 

your argument has failed. (edited), by leaving some parts out of my post you couldn't even form a new argument? this is my point... "Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'...and you are one of them.

 

 

 

 

 

13. " Keep this thread for conversations that will help Armenia and our cause, I think I saw a thread that you can express how you feel about this site, I suggest you go find it and vent."

 

 

poor baby. you are crying already

 

Note: Some words (Insults or name callings) are edited out. Yervant

Edited April 8, 2008 by Yervant1

[Aaron]

LK82,

 

I voted for scenario A, and I expected to see results where 100% of votes would have gone to option A, I was surprised to see most people actually went for B ... although only 7 have voted! In my opinion, the scenario you described is too good to become reality now. Armenians don't have so much power and negotiating leverage to bring Turkey to make even those small, minimal concessions. Armenia and Armenians bother Turkey as much as, or probably less than, native americans bother the US government. It is as unthinkable for Turkey to return lands and make concessions to Armenia as it is unthinkable for the US to concede to the natives by offering them a portion of US territory (something more than reservations) or reparations for everything bad through history, let alone create a country for them ...

 

I wish Turkey would negotiate on such issues ... but why would they, when a real possibility exists to get away with their crimes and not even look at Armenia's face. Armenia is nothing for them, an easy opponent they can crush! Change can happen, only when Armenia turns a bit stronger ... nothing close to Turkey, but more than what it is today. When the rapport of forces and power becomes less unbalanced than it is today, things can slowly change.

 

I know it's not very encouraging!

A.

[LK82]

1 - Oh really so you have a new defenition of genocide?

 

(edited), I dont. Turkish genocide of the Armenians was instigated by the need to Turkishize Turkey, and rid all other ethno backgrounds who had influence on their Empire. Greeks also dealth with the turks during this time. Hence my comment Geo-politcal. (edited).

 

 

A-are you saying millions of unarmed armenians who were the citizens of turkey were "geo-political reasons"? = Refer to my previous post, they were removed of, and exterminated for several reasons. When the kurds were brought in to massacre the Armenians they acted out of hate and personal gains. The region is in conflict for gain. (edited).

 

B-. if that the case, why do the governements of turkey and azerbaijan don't wast an effort to erase all the names that are somehow associated with the armenians?

 

You make no sense here, (edited) youre not at my level.

 

 

 

 

 

2 poor creature. are you saying either the armenians should negotiate with the azeris or else...?

 

I am a creature watch yourself, you seem to be another internet (edited), the web is full of them. AS I said, this thread was put up to open conversation about how to reach a certain goal. You are no better of an Armenian then I am. Ive spent many days and many conflicts with different nationalities to defend my own, I need not prove myself to you, the fact that Im here and talking to you might leave a stain.

 

Ill give another effort into helping you understand. This post was to open converesation about how to achieve the gaol, and gain insight to what you people of this site think.

There are few alternatives into this disscussion, and I named two major ones. Put in your input, and deter from attacking me personally. (edited)

Deal with the content, I explained to you before my views and the views of this post are seperate.

 

 

 

3- save it!

 

Edited!

 

 

 

 

5-genocide is a crime of hate. turks from turkey and azerbaijan are guilty of crimes against humanity.

 

How uneducated are you my buddy? Murder is also a crime of hate, or anger, but their motivated by someones gain or to prevent a loss among many other things.

Did that make sense?

 

 

 

 

6- (edited), you don't solve problems with hatred and fear. the muslims extremists have done must serious crimes than 'explode buildings with bombs strapped around their chest'.

What is a muslim extremist you (edited)? Some freedom fighters are labeled as extremist and some are terrorist. dont mix the two up.

 

 

 

 

 

7-why are you attacking turkish 'hate', 'exploding buildings with bombs strapped around their chest' with the armenians?

 

If you hate turks more than I do, then Ill consider you as my friend, if you keep misunderstanding my posts then ill keep callin you an (edited).

Why is it so difficult for you to create dioalogue? If I wanted to argue Id go to another site and do it there where I have a reputation for getting into fights. If this site isnt any different then some claim it to be, then why are you acting like (edited)?

 

 

 

8- i didn't take much for you to open your cards are you again saying negotiate with the turks or else...?

 

Im saying that which you read. Facts are required to continue a conversation or else it becomes pointless. We are located amongst hostile territory. There is no or else.

I live for what I believe is right, and would do whatever is necessary to defend Armenia and my family. Im saying we should continue this topic with all options on the table, and see whats left at the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

9-back another 100 years? when did it happen? are you talking about the Artsak war? in Artasak beside the turks and their azeri brothers, there were thousands of muslim terrorits from all parts of the worls? do i need to remind you how the azeri government has used the hate card to turn their people and the muslim terrorists against the armenians? do i need to reming you what happened next?

 

ARA! Are you serious? 1.5 million Armenians killed. Armenians resorted to freedom fighting as well, and well we did, and if we have to we will do it again. In this case you can call the muslims them terrorist you can also call them mercaneries because thats what they did.

Were getting recognition today in the global front because we have grown in numbers, and growing in numbers mean more armenians who are sucesful, motivated, and eager to do the hard things and open the hard topics to get Armenia where it deserves to be. in other words people like me, not like you, youre a dime a dozen quick to talk (edited) and always lookin for a fight to dstract attention from (edited)...

 

 

 

10- Why did you leave some contest out of my post? 'Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'.'

 

You (edited), youre the one who said every year as if it is a contest. I wasnt trying to change anything, and i posted that up on ArmenianPlanet.com a few months ago, i just found out about this site a few days ago, get over yourself man (edited) do you think you are, youre human just as I am.

 

 

11- in case you haven't noticed, i'm one of them. you got a problem with that? this is an armenian forum and i'm the village idiot...and for as long as you are here spreading all kind of nonsense about Armenia/Armenains and the Armenian Genocide, you gonna have to deal with me.

 

I noticed from your fist response, and im willing to talk in private if your hving a hard time understanding me. I didnt spred anything, and if you think thats spreading, then you havent seen spreading. If you wanna try to understand where Im comming from then continue like a human being any bag of beans can talk crap online.

 

 

12- your argument has failed. (edited), by leaving some contest out of my post you couldn't even form a new argument? this is my point... "Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'...and you are one of them.

 

Ara hom do (edited)? es inch tapak martes?

 

 

 

 

13- poor baby. you are crying already

I dont cry, but I can tell that you do

 

 

Note: Foul language and insults are edited out, please follow the rules. Yervant

Edited April 8, 2008 by Yervant1

[edward demian]

I like the above wording. The truth IS NOT FOR SALE.

 

The turks will never negotiate with us and we don't want them nor do we need them. We will get when the time comes with either our own intellects or with our fists.

 

Personally, I don't want the borders to be opened. I don't foresee anything good coming out of it. And I hope soon we'll attach Naxichevan to Armenia along with Artsax.

 

Also, point 5 doesn't make sense at all; because our lands that belonged to us for thousands of years are simply ours. We will get them one way or the other, that's it!!

What worries me most is the lack of population in Armenia and Artsach. A small population can do only so much. We need to start a program of ressetlement from all corners of the world. Even if we start with pensioners. You would say, what good are old people? Well, they are consumers too. Some would bring their savings with them. Imagine 100,000 families, each bringing $ 50,000!!! Those of you with any training in economics should be able to realize the impact of $ 5,000,000,000 imfusion in the Armenian economy. The 5 billion would not have to be paid back. An economy spinning that fast would attract the young families too. Why do you think Israel is doing so well. Because it actively promotes immigration from the Soviet Union , Africa etc. In the new world order, economics is everything. All else is salad dressing. I agree with the other post that open borders woul be potentially an achilles heel to Armenia.

Because turkey could easily motivate 10 million of their muslim poor to immigrate to Armenia. They could do that, overwhelm us without firing a shot.

Another thing that would be easier to achieve than obtaining our lands back is to demand equality and civil rights to Armenians, Assyrians, etc. As it is, we cannot even return a buy a house in the same town we originate from, or anywhere else. If we were to enjoy equal civil rights, we could easily purchase a village in Ani or Aghtamar and settle 100 families there from Iraq or Romania, or Bulgaria or Syria. Lebanon etc. etc. We strive to get regognishion of the Genocide from everyone. Big deal if it happens. We need to embarrass the Turkish government into abolishing the restrictions againt Armenians returning and settling. With economic clout and population on the ground, we stand a better chance. It would be a far easier goal to embarrass Turkey into lifting those restrictions against us then to get them to admit to the Genocide. Its all about reparations.

[LK82]

Attention: This post is here to open the disscussion about this topic. I am in now way shap or form trying to promote anything, or change the views of any individual.

 

I myself am proud to be an Armenian, and love my ethnicity dearly. I love my country, and would never sell myself or anyone else to the benefit of Armenias Enemies/opponents. I would prefer to die before I did such a thing.

 

 

[LK82]

Takoush: Most Armenians have pride, and honor their nationality. This isnt the topic where you should respond with I will die If I have too! this is the topic where we talk as Armenians to try to find solutions.

 

Thank you for your time.

Edited April 8, 2008 by LK82

[Yervant1]

I edited the foul language and insults from some posts please follow the Hyeforum COC guidelines, otherwise posts that break the rules will be made invisible.

[garmag]

What worries me most is the lack of population in Armenia and Artsach. ...

 

...We need to embarrass the Turkish government into abolishing the restrictions againt Armenians returning and settling. With economic clout and population on the ground, we stand a better chance. It would be a far easier goal to embarrass Turkey into lifting those restrictions against us then to get them to admit to the Genocide. Its all about reparations.

 

Hi Edward,

Even if the lack of population is evident, it is not necessarily the cause of our weakness...

Unity and strategic defence built up will make us invinsible!

Turkey will never accept AG since, as you say, reparations are the main cause for all their denials.

 

As for trying to embarrass Turkey... you must first teach them humility in order for them to understand embarrassment!

This is near enough an impossible task. How do you change the spots of a Dalmation?

 

Look at what they are doing to their own citizens, the Kurds. Turkey and Turks deny the existance of this ethnicity!

Recently to appease and join EU, the inheriters of ottoman empire, are supposedly conducting reforms for the Kurds, just like the never performed reforms promised to Armenians by the Ottomans... No changes there!

 

Dark realism is better then blind optimism .

Regards.

 

[Arpa]

Lest you get any ideas, I have not read everything above, and neither will I.

HEY KIDS!!!

DO ARMENIANS HAVE A LIFE?

DO ARMENIANS TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE THE WEATHER ETC AND ARAMAZT FORBID... S E X.?

IS FURKS, HEWS AND THE BIG G IS ALL WE ARE ABOUT?

Speaking of S E X . This LK claims to be 26 years old. Then why is he/she talking about these matters? Is there nothing else in life?

I can vaguely remember when at that age all I thought about was girls, 25 hours a day, night and day.

It seems some people have spotted where our buttons are, which button to press to have our antennae propped up.

CAN WE GET A LIFE??!!

What a tragedy that 26 year olds should think of nothing but the Big G!!!

My biggest fear is, when this issue is resolved ...

THEN WHAT DO WE TALk ABOUT?

Edited April 8, 2008 by Arpa

[LK82]

Arpa youre a loser im sorry you just found out.

 

If you want sex go beg youre wife for it or keep it for the sex topic.

 

I can think of many things to talk about but youre obviously not equipped enough to handle them.

[Ashot]

wow, another thread with full of hate...

 

Should I step in the conversations or the people involved is enough?

 

One thing I can suggest for LK82, please keep your tone down, stop insulting people, and if you really want to stick around please watch your manners, especially when you are talking to people that are old enough to be your grandfather!!!

 

Arpa jan

[KnightOfArmenia]

Lest you get any ideas, I have not read everything above, and neither will I.

HEY KIDS!!!

DO ARMENIANS HAVE A LIFE?

DO ARMENIANS TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE THE WEATHER ETC AND ARAMAZT FORBID... S E X.?

IS FURKS, HEWS AND THE BIG G IS ALL WE ARE ABOUT?

Speaking of S E X . This LK claims to be 26 years old. Then why is he/she talking about these matters? Is there nothing else in life?

I can vaguely remember when at that age all I thought about was girls, 25 hours a day, night and day.

It seems some people have spotted where our buttons are, which button to press to have our antennae propped up.

CAN WE GET A LIFE??!!

What a tragedy that 26 year olds should think of nothing but the Big G!!!

My biggest fear is, when this issue is resolved ...

THEN WHAT DO WE TALk ABOUT?

 

Friggin' pathetic.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

1 - Oh really so you have a new defenition of genocide?

 

LK82:(edited), I dont. Turkish genocide of the Armenians was instigated by the need to Turkishize Turkey, and rid all other ethno backgrounds who had influence on their Empire. Greeks also dealth with the turks during this time. Hence my comment Geo-politcal. (edited).

 

 

fool, no how you look at it, genocide is a hate crime. turkishizing turkey is also a hate crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A-are you saying millions of unarmed armenians who were the citizens of turkey were massacred for "geo-political reasons"? =

LK82: Refer to my previous post, they were removed of, and exterminated for several reasons. When the kurds were brought in to massacre the Armenians they acted out of hate and personal gains. The region is in conflict for gain. (edited).

"they acted out of hate". when i told you we don't negotiate the truth, i meant we don't negotiate the facts about the armenian genocide and we refuse to negotiate with those who hate us. you see how you controdic youself. first you play 'geo-political' card, then you controdict yourself by saying 'they acted out of hate'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

B-. if that the case, why do the governements of turkey and azerbaijan don't wast an effort to erase all the names that are somehow associated with the armenians?

 

LK82: You make no sense here, (edited) youre not at my level.

 

 

If genocide is not a hate crime, then why the hell the governments of turkey and azerbaijan destroy everything that is associated with the armenians? they hate the armenains!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aratta: 2 poor creature. are you saying either the armenians should negotiate with the azeris or else...?

 

LK82: A. I am a creature watch yourself, you seem to be another internet (edited), the web is full of them.

 

Aratta: poor creature. run out of arguments?

 

 

 

 

 

 

LK82: B. AS I said, this thread was put up to open conversation about how to reach a certain goal.

 

Aratta: what is your goal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

LK82: C. You are no better of an Armenian then I am. Ive spent many days and many conflicts with different nationalities to defend my own, I need not prove myself to you, the fact that Im here and talking to you might leave a stain.

Aratta: you will never be half of what i am. the nonsense you talk about negotiating with the turks and giving away with their demands goes to show who you really are.

 

 

 

 

 

LK82: D. Ill give another effort into helping you understand. This post was to open converesation about how to achieve the gaol, and gain insight to what you people of this site think.

There are few alternatives into this disscussion, and I named two major ones. Put in your input, and deter from attacking me personally. (edited)

Deal with the content, I explained to you before my views and the views of this post are seperate.

 

 

Aratta: as you can see, your views are not accepted and they make no sense at all. don't try to reinvent a wheel. your posts are full of contradictions and in most cases you don't make sense at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3- save it!

 

LK82: Edited!

 

 

It must hurt to be taken for a fool. When you run out of arguments, try not to insult otherwise you might be kicked out of the forum.

 

 

 

 

 

5-genocide is a crime of hate. turks from turkey and azerbaijan are guilty of crimes against humanity.

 

LK82: How uneducated are you my buddy? Murder is also a crime of hate, or anger, but their motivated by someones gain or to prevent a loss among many other things.

Did that make sense?

 

You claimed "all countries can be negotiated with if hatred and fear is removed from the equation"...i told you genocide is a crime of hate and you can't negotiate with someone who hates you and- is driven to destroy you.

 

 

 

 

 

6- (edited), you don't solve problems with hatred and fear. the muslims extremists have done must serious crimes than 'explode buildings with bombs strapped around their chest'.

LK82: What is a muslim extremist you (edited)? Some freedom fighters are labeled as extremist and some are terrorist. dont mix the two up.

 

 

 

Turkish hate for the armeians is much more serious than of what those muslim terrorists do. Turkish hate for the armeians is so deep that they even kill a pregnat woman with the baby inside her. You said those who solve problems with hate and fear -and i told you don't associate the turkish hate or the muslim terrorists acts with the name armenians.

 

 

 

 

 

7-why are you attaching turkish 'hate', 'exploding buildings with bombs strapped around their chest' with the armenians?

 

LK82: If you hate turks more than I do, then Ill consider you as my friend, if you keep misunderstanding my posts then ill keep callin you an (edited).

Why is it so difficult for you to create dioalogue? If I wanted to argue Id go to another site and do it there where I have a reputation for getting into fights. If this site isnt any different then some claim it to be, then why are you acting like (edited)?

 

You are not my friend and you can never be my friend. Go look for a friend somwhere else. Genocide is a crime of hate and it has nothing to do with "geo-politics". Don't ever dare to teach people who survived a genocide how to deal with the butcher. Don't ever tell us "If you want a solution to Armenia's problems based on hate and fear", when the enemy still hates us and is not willing to accept his guilt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

8- i didn't take much for you to open your cards are you again saying negotiate with the turks or else...?

 

LK82: Im saying that which you read. Facts are required to continue a conversation or else it becomes pointless. We are located amongst hostile territory. There is no or else.

I live for what I believe is right, and would do whatever is necessary to defend Armenia and my family. Im saying we should continue this topic with all options on the table, and see whats left at the end.

 

 

You are blaming the Armenains for daring to stand against the enemy. When you say "Armenia is located in hostile territory; rhetoric that instigates fear and promotes war will lead to more Armenian deaths and a less likely victory"... you say let's agree with the enemy or else!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9-back another 100 years? when did it happen? are you talking about the Artsak war? in Artasak beside the turks and their azeri brothers, there were thousands of muslim terrorits from all parts of the worls? do i need to remind you how the azeri government has used the hate card to turn their people and the muslim terrorists against the armenians? do i need to reming you what happened next?

 

LK82:ARA!

 

Aran papat a.

 

LK82: A. Are you serious? 1.5 million Armenians killed. Armenians resorted to freedom fighting as well, and well we did, and if we have to we will do it again. In this case you can call the muslims them terrorist you can also call them mercaneries because thats what they did.

 

Aratta: The counted few who took arms to defend their families are not the same as your muslim terrorist brothers.

 

 

 

 

LK82: B. Were getting recognition today in the global front because we have grown in numbers, and growing in numbers mean more armenians who are sucesful, motivated, and eager to do the hard things and open the hard topics to get Armenia where it deserves to be. in other words people like me, not like you, youre a dime a dozen quick to talk (edited) and always lookin for a fight to dstract attention from (edited)...

 

 

Aratta: We are getting recognition because of people like me. The kind like you who try to convince the armenians to negotiate the truth must never teach my kind how to do their job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10- Why did you leave some contest out of my post? 'Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'.'

 

You (edited), youre the one who said every year as if it is a contest. I wasnt trying to change anything, and i posted that up on ArmenianPlanet.com a few months ago, i just found out about this site a few days ago, get over yourself man (edited) do you think you are, youre human just as I am.

 

I record the facts. You talk nonsense.

 

 

 

 

 

11- in case you haven't noticed, i'm one of them. you got a problem with that? this is an armenian forum and i'm the village idiot...and for as long as you are here spreading all kind of nonsense about Armenia/Armenains and the Armenian Genocide, you gonna have to deal with me.

 

I noticed from your fist response, and im willing to talk in private if your hving a hard time understanding me. I didnt spred anything, and if you think thats spreading, then you havent seen spreading. If you wanna try to understand where Im comming from then continue like a human being any bag of beans can talk crap online.

 

 

Talking is cheap. I'm from Glendale. PM me say where and when we can meet so you can show me what spreading is.

 

 

 

 

 

12- your argument has failed. (edited), by leaving some contest out of my post you couldn't even form a new argument? this is my point... "Every year around April 24, all kind of fools come to the forum trying to convince the armenian to change their stance for their fight for the recognition of 'The Genocide'...and you are one of them.

 

Ara hom do (edited)? es inch tapak martes?

 

 

You'll get a chance to find out after we meet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13- poor baby. you are crying already

I dont cry, but I can tell that you do

 

tellins is nothing. why don't you make me?

[LK82]

I didnt read a word of what you read because you make no sense.

 

Ape kyasar yerevi kyankum du mekin sxal ches haskatsel inchkan du esor indzes sxal haskatsel.

 

internet che ur uzumes exi, te xosal chgites mi xosa vapshe.

 

uzumes indz tenas? inch pty xosas vor tenas? inchin pty patasxan tas te patasxan uzes.

 

vopshem du lriv sxal es esorva ku pahela dzevov te indz tenal es uzum konkret bana asa imanam kamel vapshe mi otum kraki.

 

dzer pahela dzeve, dzer nkaty unem en martkants vor poxanak uxexov zichen te vor vorits hetoya, skselen mufta tapak tapak durs tal.

 

Inchna sxal exel im arachi gradzi mehc aratta karas ases. En vor poxanak parap zhamakin im nstem ninetendo xaxam, kam ngnem havai agarkeki hetevits, galisem sents dzevi siter oo xosum oo hetakrkrvum te vonts karank menk jahel hyerov mtadzenk dzhvar hartseri shurch?

 

Te vor anglerenov grum midzev otari tpavorutyunem toxum? karank hyerenov zrutsenk im hamar proste angleren tpelna aveli hesht.

 

Ha aziz kez petka du pm ara, vonts jogumem uzumes im het kriv aradz lines...te krveles uzum arxayn exi krvin sovoradz txa em, vor himi xelkes tvelem usumin mi mtadzy vor hesht karas husht anes.

 

Vopshem zhoxovurt jan, voch spasumei dzezanits sents sare oo txur patasxan iminoi im hantep es temai shurch, vochel patkeratsnumei te karoxa inchvor mi bazar durs gar mechits. Bayts de vonts ktsum brnumem irok chishta vor asumen, urtex hye ayntesx vay.

 

Aratta yesel em glendalits mi kyank aprelem glendalum, es karama ku het zichem es temayi shurch, oo arten ku gradznerits parza vor es aveli shatem haskanum en inchi masin vor menk xosumenk. Te du ankax nranits vor inch grelem esor indz het xntir unes lutsel gry pm ov.

 

 

[LK82]

wow, another thread with full of hate...

 

Should I step in the conversations or the people involved is enough?

 

One thing I can suggest for LK82, please keep your tone down, stop insulting people, and if you really want to stick around please watch your manners, especially when you are talking to people that are old enough to be your grandfather!!!

 

Arpa jan

 

 

 

Enger jan, umit em kpel es esor vor indzi chi kpel sftuts.. yes martu tariknel ira texin karumem hargem ira kaxaparnel ira texin.

 

Chem ekel stex vochvoku anpatvem, bayts nentsa durs galu vor martik inchvor mi aritin ein spasum.

 

Im hamar aveli karevora hye hyein miyatsnel voch bazhanel, inchkanel irar miss enk krtsum petk chi amen tex irar miss krtsenk.

 

Ume vor es teman IROK viravorela, imatsek srtants neroxutunem asem. Te im kaylitsa vor bolornel vokevorvumen muys tepkum aveli ezgush klinem tema batseluts imanalov stexi himnakan joxovurte inchits en shut viravorvum, oo inchnen entunum.

Edited April 8, 2008 by LK82