elle Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 It's a defeat from Armenia's part. Ukraine has discredited itself and unless it explain itself to Armenia, Armenia should boycott any mediation which Ukraine take part in. How is it a defeat on Armenian side though? The most influencial states voted against the resolution, and so many countries either did not participate or were absent. If you're counting the 39 states who votes for the resolution, they're not really the influential states, so as long as we have Russia, USA, France...I guess India too in a way, vote against the resolution, then how did we get defeated? Isn't it more about the quality rather than quantity in this case? If we are defeated, then I don't think Azerbajan would be "thinking twice" about its foreign policy towards these states, although it's all BS on their part. As if Azerbaijan will cut any ties with any of these states over a non-binding resolution. Please explain your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 How is it a defeat on Armenian side though? The most influencial states voted against the resolution, and so many countries either did not participate or were absent. If you're counting the 39 states who votes for the resolution, they're not really the influential states, so as long as we have Russia, USA, France...I guess India too in a way, vote against the resolution, then how did we get defeated? Isn't it more about the quality rather than quantity in this case? If we are defeated, then I don't think Azerbajan would be "thinking twice" about its foreign policy towards these states, although it's all BS on their part. As if Azerbaijan will cut any ties with any of these states over a non-binding resolution. Please explain your position. I was refering to Ukraine, the rest was predictable. Ukraine should not have agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) I was refering to Ukraine, the rest was predictable. Ukraine should not have agreed. Got it! Ukraine has a similar problem with Moldova I think. I do not know the details of the conflict, but there's that disputed area of Transdenestr, so I think that's the reason why Ukraine followed Serbia and Georgia. It's also the gas problem on top of the territorial one because Russia has been really pressuring Ukraine to pay off its debt to Gazprom. The debt problem has been been going on for over a year now. Edited March 16, 2008 by elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Nono, wait a minute, of course, Crimea!!! How did we forgot that one? Of course Ukraine supported it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Nono, wait a minute, of course, Crimea!!! How did we forgot that one? Of course Ukraine supported it. OK That too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 RA MFA: Azerbaijan attempted to misinform UN member states 15.03.2008 13:33 GMT+04:00 http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_print.gif http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_mail.gif http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_rus.gif http://www.panarmenian.net/news/images/ico_arm.gif /PanARMENIAN.Net/ “I hope Azerbaijan got the message from the international community. Taking the lead of the co-chairs, a majority of member states repelled the one-sided approach,” said Armenia’s Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian when commenting on the vote on Azerbaijan’s resolution in the UN General Assembly. Minister Oskanian characterized the resolution as hypocritical. “On the one hand, in an effort to misinform member states, the resolution included a paragraph that supports the OSCE Minsk Process. On the other hand, Azerbaijan blatantly ignored the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs position. The co-chair countries had made clear they would not support the resolution and in fact voted against the resolution.” “Now we wonder what Azerbaijan’s next move will be,” he said. “We question whether this resolution was intended to derail the negotiating process or whether they got the clear message and will return to the negotiating table to work on a negotiated, compromise lasting solution,” the Minister said, the RA MFA press office reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ On 14 March, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution on Nagorno Artsax, in which Azerbaijan called for the immediate, complete and unconditional withdrawal of Armenian forces “from all the occupied territories of the Republic of Azerbaijan.” With 39 votes in favor, 7 against and 100 abstentions, the Assembly adopted a text that also called for “continued respect and support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Azerbaijan within its internationally recognized borders.” The resolution reaffirmed “the inalienable right of the population expelled from the occupied territories of Azerbaijan to return to their homes, and to achieve that end it underlined the need for the comprehensive rehabilitation of all conflict-affected territories.” "This resolution was not helpful," said a diplomat from one of the three co-chairs of the Minsk Group - Russia, the United States and France. A U.S. statement on the resolution said the three Minsk Group co-chairs all voted against the resolution because they agreed it represented a "unilateral" view of the dispute. In favor: Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Colombia, Comoros, Djibouti, Gambia, Georgia, Indonesia, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Moldova, Morocco, Myanmar, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Turkey, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen. Against: Angola, Armenia, France, India, Russian Federation, United States, Vanuatu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Poor creatures. The azeris just shot themselves in the foot. By passing the resolution aliyev junior was hoping to build a solid ground which would enable him to start a new war. Insted, the moron gained more enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoComment Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Azerbaijan warns France, Russia, US over UN vote: report http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080315/wl_af...cy_080315153419 (source: http://www.armenews.com/leforum.php3 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) Azerbaijan warns France, Russia, US over UN vote: report http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080315/wl_af...cy_080315153419 (source: http://www.armenews.com/leforum.php3 ) Why should they not? Their very agressive foreign policy has given results..., they can now continue on this path and threaten nations when they do not have what they get. Edited March 16, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazarian Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 It's possible that Ukraine is looking for alternatives in gas and oil since Russia is Ukraine's major source and they have been having problems lately due to all that "Orange revolution" and the large debt Ukraine has to Russia. Ukraine is part of GUAM - Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Moldova. That's why Ukraine voted for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ukraine is part of GUAM - Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Moldova. That's why Ukraine voted for it. Good point raised. All the more reason why they voted for the baboons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Haha, at leat two members of this forum will take that seriously. Well, that's preferable people who take seriously the "theory" that "Armenians didn't exist until the Persians saw them." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 In favor: Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Colombia, Comoros, Djibouti, Gambia, Georgia, Indonesia, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Moldova, Morocco, Myanmar, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Turkey, Tuvalu, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen. Against: Angola, Armenia, France, India, Russian Federation, United States, Vanuatu. Give me a break! For the most it's like a Mohammad Club Gathering to see what Christian they can take a stab at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Why should they not? Their very agressive foreign policy has given results..., they can now continue on this path and threaten nations when they do not have what they get. Hmm.. I wonder why that is bad for Armenians when it concern hsitory, then. hmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well, that's preferable people who take seriously the "theory" that "Armenians didn't exist until the Persians saw them." No it's not. The latter is justifiable at least but not logical, the former is outright retarded. Armenians obviously didn't appear out of thin air in the fifth or sixth centuries BC. The ethnogenesis can be traced back centuries if not a millenia before that within the same geographic location. That still has nothing to do with attempting to appropriate foreign cultures or unknown Bronze Age ethnonyms, not to mention legendary or geographically distant entities like the so called "Aratta". The ar mar bullshit is akin to those Chsitian Identity nutjobs who equate Judah with Jutes or Dan with Danes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Hmm.. I wonder why that is bad for Armenians when it concern hsitory, then. hmmmmm You're pulling my foot..., I was obviously intending oil here. Azerbaijan can have aggressive policy, we can't, we do not have something to bargin. Edited March 17, 2008 by DominO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashot Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Dom this is where everyone has been wrong, we have more to offer!!! oil can be offered by many great nations... what we offer cannot be offered by any other nation!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Yerevan not worried about UN Nagorno-Artsax resolution Read it in Russian Vote on the Azerbaijan-introduced resolution of UN General Assembly on Nagorno-Artsax has inspired Yerevan, REGNUM correspondent in Yerevan quotes Viktor Sogomonyan, press secretary of Armenia's president, to state at a press conference on March 17. According to Sogomonyan, the Armenian side has been inspired by the fact that “all civilized countries either abstained from the vote, or disapproved the resolution,” realizing that it might aggravate the situation. Commenting on the question whether the Armenian side was going to halt negotiations with Azerbaijan, Sogomonyan observed that such a step of Azerbaijan in UN raised a number of questions, in particular, how serious is Baku about the negotiation process. He said, however, that the issue is not so far on the table. Speaking of the fact of the resolution's being adopted, he stated that it was quite predictable. “It is not the first instance when an Azerbaijan-initiated legally non-binding document is passed. The Armenian side is not worried about it,” Sogomonyan concluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aratta-Kingdom Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Baku Threatens to Break Relations Baku submitted the draft to the General Assembly in late February. The document was put to vote past Friday and rejected by Russia, the United States and France. Those states co-chair the OSCE Minsk Group that has endeavored to find a peaceful solution for Nagorny Artsax conflict since 1992. The given reasons are that the draft elaborated by Azerbaijan doesn’t reflect all approaches towards sorting out the Artsax problem. Indeed, the document ignores even the previously reached agreements, including holding a referendum to determine the status of that region. “The draft has taken into consideration only some of the basic settlement principles that correspond to the interests of Azerbaijan exclusively without mentioning, for instance, the determination of final legal status of Nagorny Artsax by holding a plebiscite amid the population for free and true declaration of will,” the RF Foreign Ministry said in the statement released after voting. The resolution was voted by 146 of 192 U.N. member-states. Of them, 39 (including 33 Moslem states) upheld the document, seven (Russia, the U.S., France, Armenia, India, Angola and Vanuatu) rejected it and 100 preferred to abstain. Baku rebuffed in no time, threatening to revise the relations with Moscow, Washington and Paris along with the format of Minsk Group that has been working in the current form since 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) Qarabag (Artsax in Russian) -- both its mountainous (Nagorniy in Russian) and lowland parts, economically and politically linked -- had always been a historic province in Azerbaijan. Apparently the word always amounts to roughly a hundred years. Edited March 19, 2008 by Zartonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 (edited) I haven't been following the threads much these days but I wonder if someone covered this: out of the 39 nations who voted for the Azeri resolution one country stood out, Serbia. Yes our dear "orthodox" brethren that have great many staunch followers or fans among the members of our little community here in Hyeforum. Of course many would argue that because of Azerbaijan's refusal to recognize Kosovo Serbia had to reciprocate. This means we should have no loyalty towards their cause, and because of the fact that Artsakh is indeed our "jeruslalem" as the Serbs call Kosovo theirs, Serbia at least should have demonstrated sensitivity and abstained from voting. Russian interests in Serbia means diddly-doo for Armenia and therefore our government should forcefully make the point for all to see, and recognize Kosovo. Orthodox brotherhood my a.ss. Treat them as one treats any other a.sshole of a country. / Edited March 18, 2008 by Z'areh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurocentric Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 I haven't been following the threads much these days but I wonder if someone covered this: out of the 39 nations who voted for the Azeri resolution one country stood out, Serbia. Yes our dear "orthodox" brethren that have great many staunch followers or fans among the members of our little community here in Hyeforum. Of course many would argue that because of Azerbaijan's refusal to recognize Kosovo Serbia had to reciprocate. This means we should have no loyalty towards their cause, and because of the fact that Artsakh is indeed our "jeruslalem" as the Serbs call Kosovo theirs, Serbia at least should have demonstrated sensitivity and abstained from voting. Russian interests in Serbia means diddly-doo for Armenia and therefore our government should forcefully make the point for all to see, and recognize Kosovo. Orthodox brotherhood my a.ss. Treat them as one treats any other a.sshole of a country. / What a load of crap. Serbia is only returning the favor. Armenia betrayed Serbia in this crucial matter when Serbia was one of the few countries willing and selling ammunition to Armenia. “We do not intend to recognize Nagorno Artsax’s independence in foreseeable future. However, Armenia has always been an adherent to the right of nations to self-determination and in this aspect we welcome Kosovo’s independence,” the PM said, Novosti Armenia reports. http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=25331 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Realpolitik at its dirtiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 What a load of crap. Serbia is only returning the favor. Armenia betrayed Serbia in this crucial matter when Serbia was one of the few countries willing and selling ammunition to Armenia. “We do not intend to recognize Nagorno Artsax’s independence in foreseeable future. However, Armenia has always been an adherent to the right of nations to self-determination and in this aspect we welcome Kosovo’s independence,” the PM said, Novosti Armenia reports. http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=25331 Thanks for that news bit, but you don't have to be rude to make a point, even if you think you are right. It would also be a little naive to think that Serbia voted the way it did because of Sarkisian's remark. As for selling ammunition, it is all business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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