Genocide Crisis With Germany

[Yervant1]

I can't wait to see the outcome of this bill, it seems Germany is going ahead with it without any regard to Turkey's cries.

 

ARMENIAN CRISIS WITH GERMANY

Sabah, Turkey
April 13 2007

Germany is preparing a bill that will give a three years jail sentence
to those not only denying the Armenian genocide, but also to anyone
who says: "Armenian forced emigration."

The bill prepared by the EU term chair Germany has brought up the
greatest crisis between Turkey and this country since World War II.

Germany has prepared an unbelievable bill in regards to the claims
of genocide.

The imminent so-called genocide crisis with Germany

The EU term chair Germany has brought the so-called Armenian genocide
to the EU agenda and is attempting to make it a crime to call it an
"emigration," which is the cause of tension in the relations of the
two countries.

Turkey is struggling diplomatically against the EU term chair
Germany's attempts to give a three years jail sentence to those not
only denying the Armenian genocide but also to anyone who says it
was an "Armenian emigration."

However, Germany remains silent despite the warnings up until to now.

The greatest crisis between the two countries since World War 2 is
coming very soon.

If the bill passes, a Turk calling it an "emigration" will be penalized
for up to three years' imprisonment. The first counter attack from
Turkey started around 1.5 month ago with the warning sent to the
German Embassy.

Edited April 19, 2007 by MosJan

[DominO123]

Witch hunting is back. What a shame that such an industrialised country such as Germany will mimik countries like Turkey by placing restrictions on peoples opinion. This is against the universal declaration of human right. Flow of idea's is necessary in a civilized modern society, seems that some still don't get that. Sad.

 

 

[Yervant1]

Witch hunting is back. What a shame that such an industrialised country such as Germany will mimik countries like Turkey by placing restrictions on peoples opinion. This is against the universal declaration of human right. Flow of idea's is necessary in a civilized modern society, seems that some still don't get that. Sad.

I do agree with you fully in theory that freedom of speech should be maintained but Turkey has itself to blame by preaching freedom of expression to the world and when it comes to them they ignore it fully.

I guess sometimes the only way to fight fire is with fire, also I think the world is tired of their lies because they all know the truth.

[DominO123]

I do agree with you fully in theory that freedom of speech should be maintained but Turkey has itself to blame by preaching freedom of expression to the world and when it comes to them they ignore it fully.

I guess sometimes the only way to fight fire is with fire, also I think the world is tired of their lies because they all know the truth.

 

 

 

Yervant, such laws will not differenciate between constructive opposition of the official history like Zurcher and some plain revisionism. Under such law people like Zurcher could be trialled, this is not a good move in any way. Idea's evolve, they are exchanged etc., if you supress "competition", you supress evolution.

 

 

[MosJan]

ERDOGAN TO EXPLAIN MERKEL BILL ON DENYING GENOCIDE “CONTRADICTS INTERNATIONAL LAW”

 

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan during his meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany, will raise his government's concerns over a new bill that would toughen requirements for Turkish immigrants to settle in Germany. Zaman reports, the bill, approved by the German Cabinet last month, would require the spouses of residents to pass a language test before being allowed to settle in Germany. It allows exemptions for several countries, including Australia, South Korea and Honduras. The German presidency's plans to put into force EU-wide legislation that would introduce penalties for denial of the crime of genocide are also on Erdogan's agenda. Turkey is concerned at the implications of this legislation, fearing that the Armenian Genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Empire could also be covered by it. Erdogan is expected to “explain” Merkel that the legislation “contradicts international law and that it would restrict academic freedom and freedom of expression if endorsed”. He is also expected to warn Merkel that its passage would further complicate Turkey's relations with the EU, the newspaper reported.

[Sip]

There is enough dislike (hatred?) of the Turks in Germany that I could definitely see such a bill pass there!

[Yervant1]

Yervant, such laws will not differenciate between constructive opposition of the official history like Zurcher and some plain revisionism. Under such law people like Zurcher could be trialled, this is not a good move in any way. Idea's evolve, they are exchanged etc., if you supress "competition", you supress evolution.

I will not oppose to bills like this untill in Turkey AG in not a taboo and everybody is free to discuss it openly.

Then and only then it becomes a level field for discussion without any restrictions.

[DominO123]

I will not oppose to bills like this untill in Turkey AG in not a taboo and everybody is free to discuss it openly.

Then and only then it becomes a level field for discussion without any restrictions.

 

 

 

I don't see how such a taboo could ever be lifted, but after "exchanging" (tried to) with Azeris, maybe there is some faith in lifting the taboo partialy when comparing Turks with Azeris.

 

 

[Yervant1]

I don't see how such a taboo could ever be lifted, but after "exchanging" (tried to) with Azeris, maybe there is some faith in lifting the taboo partialy when comparing Turks with Azeris.

Forget the Azeries they only understand the language of the sword.

Today as it is 12% of Turkey's population accepts the Genocide, imagine if they let the people to express themselves freely the vast majority will admit to it but to accept responsibility that's another story.

All they have to do is ask their grandparents with honesty and they will get the truth.

[Lev7]

Germany is smart, this way they will start arresting and deporting Turks, a brilliant idea to get rid of that filth

[Hellektor]

Witch hunting is back. What a shame that such an industrialised country such as Germany will mimik countries like Turkey by placing restrictions on peoples opinion. This is against the universal declaration of human right. Flow of idea's is necessary in a civilized modern society, seems that some still don't get that. Sad.

I am amazed that some of us Armenians are/try to be/pretend that we are so PC... The Armenian Genocide is an undisputable reality and besides Turks and one or two losers posing as scholars, no one will need to deny it once they consider the facts. So what flow of ideas are you talking about?

 

When does anyone give anything to Armenians? Look at the injustice concerning Artsakh and the OSCE faggots' resolution. Where were the supporters of human rights and freedom of speech (for the wealthy) when Armenians were being slaughtered from 1860s to 1920s? Who gave a shit when the Turks were destroying everything that had an Armenian inscription on it after WWII? Who gave a damn for the Nakhijevan destructions? Why can't you people be content and accept the gift the Turkophile West gives us so occasionally?

 

To hell with all that Yiddish "democracy", "freedom of speech", "human rights" rubbish that doesn't even exist. As I said before, a beautiful Persian proverb goes: You don't count the teeth of a horse offered to you.

 

P.S. I am only practicing my freedom of speech.

 

[Accelerated]

Idea's evolve, they are exchanged

 

Yes but TRUTH and FACT dont evolve. Except for minor details AG is a proven fact, so there is little room for 'interpretations'... If the Germans want to pass this law more power to them.

[irlandahay]

Witch hunting is back. What a shame that such an industrialised country such as Germany will mimik countries like Turkey by placing restrictions on peoples opinion. This is against the universal declaration of human right. Flow of idea's is necessary in a civilized modern society, seems that some still don't get that. Sad.

 

as much as I hate to admit it I agree with you too. but I guess the positive side is it will avoid all those goddamned vandalisms and skinhead protests on april 24th...and I get a good chuckle at seeing turkey roll on its back and pissing itself everytime another country abandons them.

 

it'l never get old

[irlandahay]

I am amazed that some of us Armenians are/try to be/pretend that we are so PC... The Armenian Genocide is an undisputable reality and besides Turks and one or two losers posing as scholars, no one will need to deny it once they consider the facts. So what flow of ideas are you talking about?

 

When does anyone give anything to Armenians? Look at the injustice concerning Artsakh and the OSCE faggots' resolution. Where were the supporters of human rights and freedom of speech (for the wealthy) when Armenians were being slaughtered from 1860s to 1920s? Who gave a shit when the Turks were destroying everything that had an Armenian inscription on it after WWII? Who gave a damn for the Nakhijevan destructions? Why can't you people be content and accept the gift the Turkophile West gives us so occasionally?

 

To hell with all that Yiddish "democracy", "freedom of speech", "human rights" rubbish that doesn't even exist. As I said before, a beautiful Persian proverb goes: You don't count the teeth of a horse offered to you.

 

P.S. I am only practicing my freedom of speech.

 

agreed

 

Accelerated: well said as well

[DominO123]

Justice and fact are two different things.

 

 

 

I am amazed that some of us Armenians are/try to be/pretend that we are so PC... The Armenian Genocide is an undisputable reality and besides Turks and one or two losers posing as scholars, no one will need to deny it once they consider the facts. So what flow of ideas are you talking about?

 

When does anyone give anything to Armenians? Look at the injustice concerning Artsakh and the OSCE faggots' resolution. Where were the supporters of human rights and freedom of speech (for the wealthy) when Armenians were being slaughtered from 1860s to 1920s? Who gave a shit when the Turks were destroying everything that had an Armenian inscription on it after WWII? Who gave a damn for the Nakhijevan destructions? Why can't you people be content and accept the gift the Turkophile West gives us so occasionally?

 

To hell with all that Yiddish "democracy", "freedom of speech", "human rights" rubbish that doesn't even exist. As I said before, a beautiful Persian proverb goes: You don't count the teeth of a horse offered to you.

 

P.S. I am only practicing my freedom of speech.

 

 

[DominO123]

 

Yes but TRUTH and FACT dont evolve. Except for minor details AG is a proven fact, so there is little room for 'interpretations'... If the Germans want to pass this law more power to them.

 

 

 

Everything evolve, 'truth' neither 'fact' are written on stone, we are not talking here about mathematical identities. The Armenian Genocide is the only logical thesis, and the reason why it is the majority position is because this idea evolved and people adhered to it because of the validity of the argumentation supporting the thesis. There should be no contradiction, either you support freedom of speech or either you supress it. It is convinient now to make the denial of the genocide as illegal, but suppose a dictatorial regime in which the more valid thesis is suppressed, will you accept it? If you supress critics, everyone can come up with BS and the critic won't be able to answer back because they are silenced. Dishonesty should be answered NOT silenced. I prefer exposed revisionism as what it is, exposing how weak the thesis is than silencing it. A thesis should constently be challenged.

 

 

[hosank]

hellektor, i agree, yet disagree with you..

 

it is an undisputed reality, but put it this way.

when a government puts up a law making opposite thought on the matter illegal, it is maybe because they do not want you to think so. it is human nature to think so anyways.

 

if the armenian genocide was debatable, then it would make sense for it's debate to be illegal. if on the contrary, it was a fact, which it is, then if people want to debate it or not becomes trivial, because no matter how long you argue, the facts will never change.

 

it's like putting a ban on people claiming that water consists of something other then oxygen and hydrogen.

[GevorgP]

Germany is smart, this way they will start arresting and deporting Turks, a brilliant idea to get rid of that filth

 

Agree!

 

The denial bill first of all will serve Germany national interests.

 

The large Turkish population with such a paramount production (sorry; reproduction) rate is a threat for Germany; some day, soon, it may become Turkish territory. You remember the story when Prime Minister Koll's son wanted to marry a Turkish girl and how German population accepted it. Germany badly needs to stop Turkish "peaceful" intervention and recognizes that one day the story on giving independence to Kosovo, will be repeated with some German lands or even whole country.

 

In this case Germany badly needs some good arguments to prevent the Turkish "invasion". At this point the most justifiable and popular one is AG. This way they will shoot two rabbits using one bullet.

 

1) World would support it; given current developments.

 

2) It would enable them legally ban massive Turkish immigration and, in addition, extradite some of Turks; who already are German citizens, preventing disastrous demographic changes.

 

 

Do we need to set some additional small obstacles for Germany to carry it out, given the 1,500,000 ... are still waiting for the justice? Germans aren't killing Turks; just preventing to lie any more. Let them do it.

 

The AG is obvious fact, nevertheless Turks deny it obsessing whole world with their lies. Germans realize that in future, after becoming majority, the same way, they will rewrite Germany history books, and declare themselves as German aborigines, repeating the Kosovo story.

 

So Germany first of all is promoting its own interest, using AG argument, because currently it is the most justifiable and appropriate one. That's it.

 

So it is useless to convince Germany to change its mind on the issue.

Edited April 15, 2007 by GevorgP

[Zartonk]

I agree. Foremost, this measure is Germany's way of tending to the problem of massive Turkish influx. Though it eventually works our way, the fact remains that it is primarily a shot aimed at Turkey than a pro-Armenian legislation. It's not all genocide justice. Edited April 16, 2007 by Zartonk

[skhara]

Witch hunting is back. What a shame that such an industrialised country such as Germany will mimik countries like Turkey by placing restrictions on peoples opinion. This is against the universal declaration of human right. Flow of idea's is necessary in a civilized modern society, seems that some still don't get that. Sad.

 

Yeah that's all fine and dandy in a world where there is no double-dealing and arrogant hypocrasy. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. The Germans aren't doing this for the love of Armenians, they have their own interests -- we can benefit from the damage to be inflicted on the enemy entity. I also remember reading that Germans are interested in the status of Artsakh from a pro-Armenian viewpoint. Good for the Germans.

 

P.S. I am only practicing my freedom of speech.

 

[gamavor]

For the biologically mentally deficient Turks, freedom of speech is an opportunity to deny the obvious. Since when defending the freedom of speech is an act of replacing the truth with blunt lies?

 

On a second thought, denying the Genocide is an insult to the memory of the millions slaughtered by the Turkish jatagan! If we are to respect such "freedom of speech", than every Armenian should be able to sue Republic of Turkey and get satisfactory compensation for the luxury granted to the Turks to lie publicly.

 

[MosJan]

TURKISH PRIME MINISTER CRITICIZED GERMANY

 

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article's photo

Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan reproached Germany for failing to do more to advance his country’s hopes of joining the European Union, in an interview to be published on Monday. "Seriously, I expected more from Germany", which currently holds the six-month rotating presidency of the European Union, he told German magazine Der Spiegel. He was speaking ahead of a visit to Germany on Sunday, where he is due to open the Hanover Industrial Fair alongside Chancellor Angela Merkel. Erdogan also explicitly reproached Germany for his lack of invitation to the celebrations of the 50th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome in Berlin three weeks ago.That was a "grave error," the Turkish Prime Minister said, adding that it had "overshadowed the German presidency. "We would like a clear idea of a date, a roadmap, a calendar for negotiations" to show the EU was serious about Turkey joining its ranks, he told the magazine. He proposed 2014 or 2015 as a possible date for membership. But if the EU "doesn't want us, it should say so clearly now," he said. "If we are not wanted, the two sides need not continue wasting their time in talks." Merkel is personally and politically, through her Christian Democratic Union party, against Turkish membership of the EU. Instead she would prefer to see the secular Islamic nation become a "privileged partner" of the 27-member bloc. Public opinion in Germany, the EU's most populous country which has 2.5 million Turkish residents, is generally against Turkish membership. However, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, a social democrat, supports full membership. "If we really trust Turkey, that will improve security and stability in Europe," he told the Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung regional newspaper, DW reports.

[Hellektor]

Justice and fact are two different things.

Just take the gift and say thank you.

[Error 404]

5 million turks in Germany. Nice lobby huh Actually nice number...

 

Have you guys heard the new joke? 2-3 bottles of kognak of Armenian lobby with congress costs $millions to turkey.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Error 404

[KOler]

Thats really amazing Guys.