Dual Citizenship

[MosJan]

GALOUST SAHAKYAN FOUND OUT A CASE OF «TAUTOLOGY»

 

Member of the Republican Party Galoust Sahakyan thinks dual citizenship has a symbolic meaning. “The introduction of dual citizenship into the draft was a result of political concession. After long discussions the coalition accepter the offer of ARF. Even if the right of the dual citizens to elect or to be elected is stipulated by the law, it will not work. Dual citizenship is mainly connected with our national problems and not legislative norms. If a US citizen has dual citizenship, USA will not allow him to participate in RA elections or serve in the RA army”.

 

According to Mr. Sahakyan, the world experience has shown that dual citizenship is not justified. He does not share the opinion that the right of dual citizens to vote will give other counties the possibility to affect the Presidential elections in Armenia. “It is an illiterate political formula, and more like a case of tautology. Does it mean that Bush can come to Armenia and be elected President? If we forget about our national values, everything will happen”.

[Eloren]

Nothing makes me more angry than an Armenian not considering the diasporans as "armenians".

 

he announced that those people who left Armenia in different times, must not have the same rights as the citizens of Armenia

 

Oh yeah, sorry! It is absolutely my fault if my great grand parents were slaughtered by turks and had to flee in a foreign country! Damn, now I must not consider myself as an armenian.

 

This is all BS.. Denying dual citizenship will not help the Diasporan armenians to return back. My french passport is more beneficient for now than an armenian one. I might change the day Armenia enters in the EU.

 

Politician Stepan Safaryan mentioned that he sees the danger of Armenians leaving their homeland with the adoption of dual citizenship.

 

As if they were not already leaving the country.. Closing doors to armenians outside will not help the country developp..

 

«Not everyone wishing to get dual citizenship will be evil in their aims»

[MosJan]

ADOPTING DUAL CITIZENSHIP ARMENIA WILL HAVE TO STRIVE FOR INDEPENDENCE AGAIN

 

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 9. ARMINFO. "Adopting dual citizenship Armenia will have to strive for independence again," declared the participants of a seminar dedicated to the Constitutional amendments at the "Congress" hotel. The seminar was organized by the "Armenian National Movement" party and the "Concordance" social studies center.

 

Vardan Harutiunian, a lawyer, noted that the Constitutional reforms must contribute the development of the country. He said that the most important point of the new Constitution is the question of dual citizenship. He denoted the question of the military service and taxation of people with dual citizenship. Mr. Harutiunian warned that Russia can use dual citizens for influencing the policy of Armenia.

 

The editor-in-chief of the "Aravot" newspaper, Aram Abrahamian, said that the only defect of the new Constitution is the article on dual citizenship. He noted the importance of dual citizenship for the representatives of the Armenian diaspora, but also warned that Armenian Parliament deputies, being admitted the citizenship, of other countries can betray the interests of Armenia.

 

The head of the "Concordance" social studies center, David Shahnazarian, agreed with the position of Mr. Aram Abrahamian and said that the idea of adoption of dual citizenship is mainly supported by foreign citizens.

 

arminfo

[gamavor]

The argument that duel citizenship will jeopardize somehow the political stability in the country is sligthly exagerated. It made sense few years back, but not anymore.

 

Such desision should not be something that Republic of Armenia would agree to grant, but rather a political understanding reflecting the curent and future development of Armenia.

[skhara]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

[Harut]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

 

it's relatively easy, unless you're Raffi Hovhanissian and want to run for the presidency...

[Aaron]

Some people are really making a big deal out of this issue! Interference of other countries in armenia's inner affairs, people leaving the country, not giving satisfaction to diasporans, etc.

 

kavat me churi mech kheghtvetsank?

 

In short, with the amended constitution and proper laws, the deal should be something like:

 

You were born and raised outside Armenia? you can become a citizen if you come here and serve in the army, for a certain period and if you are under 27-30. If you are over 30, no need to serve but you'll have to pay taxes. In all cases you'll get citizenship only if you live here for a given period of time, meaning to be a pemanent resident and paying taxes (just like in any other country, ex: 1 or 2 years, including military service), you'll get the right to vote if you stay even longer (ex. 5 years or more). You get the right to be elected after an even longer period (ex. 10 years).

 

You're an armenian that left Armenia in the last 15 years? You can have citizenship but voting rights only if you have been a permanent resident (lived in Armenia and have payed taxes) for 5 years (or longer). If you are under 30 (or 27), you still have to serve in the Army.

 

This way, those who really want to become citizens while keeping their other citizenship, can do it and participate in Armenia's life.

 

That's it! No need to make a drama out of it!

 

This was my personal view and details will be decided when voting the laws in parliament of course!

 

A.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Aaron

[Harut]

You're an armenian that left Armenia in the last 15 years? You can have citizenship but voting rights only if you have been a permanent resident (lived in Armenia and have payed taxes) for 5 years (or longer). If you are under 30 (or 27), you still have to serve in the Army.

 

i'm an armenian citizen under 27, but i still don't have to serve in the army... i've legally left the country for a permanent residancy in usa... therefore i'm not required to serve...

so... does someone under 27, who wishes to become armenian citizen, but still be a permanent resident of a foreign country have to serve in the army?

[Harut]

considering the state that the country is in now (faulty taxing system, high rate of desertion, officially still in war, etc), i think it is still too early to adopt dual citizenship...

[MosJan]

i'm an armenian citizen under 27, but i still don't have to serve in the army... i've legally left the country for a permanent residancy in usa... therefore i'm not required to serve...

so... does someone under 27, who wishes to become armenian citizen, but still be a permanent resident of a foreign country have to serve in the army?

 

 

aper indz yve qez banak chen tani aper - hech chmtatses

[Aaron]

Harut's first question: I think he should still serve in the Army...or don't go to Armenia before 27. Perhaps a paying system could be set up for people under 27 which allows avoiding military service by legally paying a considerable fee (I think it already exists). In any case, the law has to make it clear that you have to EARN your citizenship somehow (for someone from outside): permanent residency, tax paying, military service, major investment, etc. As for those who have left the country in the last 15 years, regulations should be much more flexible since they are the ones who most probably will return .... if return occurs! Also, I don't think duration of military service should be the same for someone born and raised in Armenia vs. someone born and raised outside and having never lived there previously.

 

For the second part: It's true, the country has a 1001 problems, but amending the constitution will not necessarily mean adoption of dual citizenship. The process of establishing appropriate laws through parliament may take long years and even longer debates within the politicians and the public..... bringing us closer to a solution. When you exchange ideas about something it becomes easier to solve it, no? Constitution amendments only eliminate a ban.... the rest is ours to decide!

 

Eventually, this issue should be solved so that Armenia does become a homeland of all armenians (someone could have more than 1 homeland, just as someone can have more than one house!). This is my stance.

 

A.

[Armen]

The argument that duel citizenship will jeopardize somehow the political stability in the country is sligthly exagerated. It made sense few years back, but not anymore.

 

The present change in the constitution that is going to be voted in the referendum along with other changes is not regulating dual citizenship. It is simply removing the paragraph that bans dual citizenship.

 

The only law that authomatically comes into force for potential dual citizens (the people who hold passports of 2 countries) is the RA Law on Citizenship. According to this law anyone who wants to become a RA citizen will have the same rights and responsibilities as all other RA nationals.

 

Armenia has to still pass a law on dual citizenship, ammend the current one or sign separate agreements with foreign countries regulating the process. There are many ways to regulate this in a way that will not jeopardize the stability. For example you can give all dual citizens a right to vote only in case they are in Armenia on the day of elections etc. etc.

 

So you are totaly right, Gams.

[M_Karazov]

Some people are really out of touch with reality. Banning dual citizenship??? Especially in any country of former SU this is a stupid and inhumane idea. Millions of people have been forcebily relocated outside their traditional homeland, the land of their forefathers. Look at the problems this gives for minorities staying outside their homeland and often in situations of less cultural rights then the dominant titular ethnic group. After the collapse of SU the demographic situation in many countries changed dramatically. Especially the Caucasian countries have seen two effects, a development of out-migration of the original ethnic group. like Armenians, Georgians and Azeri's to Russia but an even faster out-migration of minorities from the Caucasian countries. Look at Azerbaijan, the country had a population of 8 million before 1991. I have met many Russians born in Baku now living in Moscow and other Russian cities, so we can safely assume most Slavic inhabitans, especially the younger ones have returned to Russia or Ukraine. The Armenian inhabitans also left due to obvious reasons, so the majority of the millions of non-Azeri nationalities have left the country. Sunni Azeri's have started to migrate to Turkey most likely not to return. Are left Shia Azeri's from whom some 1,5 alone are living in Moscow and many millions more in other Russian cities and provinces.

Same goes for Armenia and Georgia. If these countries just give passports to residents staying in the country they would not need much papers, as there are just a fraction of the residents of 1991.

 

What we can say now is that any Caucasian country is heading in two directions:

-Becoming more and more mono-ethnic as result of minorities returning to their own countries

-Huge outmigration even by the ethnic majority group to places with more employement

 

The first development is permanent for sure and will only increase since the rates for minorities are still higher. The second development is resulted for economic reasons and is likely not to be permanent. Many Armenians are working for a few months in Russia and for a few months in Armenia. For the first they should receive solid working permits, for the second an Armenian passport. If the Armenian economy improves people will at first stay longer in Armenia and after a while permanently. Take Baku for example, the Russians, Armenians, Jews, Tatars, etc. came for economic reasons, to make money and now Moscow is the booming town. The Caucasian cities can experience the same again when there is peace and no ethnic tension. This is the main reason why Georgia went from the most affluent to the poorest country of CIS, but still there is enormous potential. And if this potential of Caucasian countries is realised there will be need for returning of its citizens. With the right passports off course.

Edited December 10, 2005 by M_Karazov

[Lev7]

My question is, how easy is it for an Armenian to get Armenian citizenship if he/she wants to live in Armenia. If there isn't any kind of complicated due process, then what is wrong with saying "if you want Armenian citizenship, than come live in Armenia.

 

if you have enough cash, everything is possible in Armenia

[Lev7]

YEREVAN (YERKIR) - With 66 pro, 5 con votes and 1 abstention, Armenian

National Assembly adopted the amendments to the Law on dual citizenship

at second reading. The United Labor party voted against. The opposition

did not participate in the voting.

 

Let us remind that this amendment establishes the institute of dual

citizenship in the republic and our compatriots residing in different

sites of the world gain the right to elect and be elected.

 

Dual citizens cannot run for president and parliament, they will not

be allowed to be members of the Constitutional Court.

 

According to Justice Minister David Harutyunyan, political

agreement has been reached on the following issue: "Dual citizens

who have no place of registration in Armenia will not participate

in elections. Correspondingly, dual citizens having a place of

registration in Armenia attain franchise. In fact, no additional

precincts will be opened for citizens not registered in Armenia.

[Zartonk]

Dual Personality: Can divided loyalties provide the key to a united nation?

 

By Julia Hakobyan

 

ArmeniaNow reporter

 

 

The controversial draft law on dual citizenship passed in the first reading earlier this week in the Armenian National Assembly was during the second reading followed by discords between the two ruling parties – the Republican party and Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun).

 

During the debates over the draft law the ruling Republican Party pressed on amendments to the draft law to ensure that those with dual citizenship could only exercise voting rights by having resided in Armenia for at least one of the previous five years.

 

“Armenia survived thanks to the people who stayed in the country and it was unjust to offer equal conditions to those living inside and outside the republic”, said the Speaker of Parliament, Tigran Torosyan.

 

However, the proposed amendments were rejected, and the voting was postponed until next Monday when the new session starts.

 

Hrair Karapetyan, the head of the (Dashnaktsuytyun) faction in parliament said that the law had been long discussed and should be passed swiftly by Parliament to give Diaspora Armenians a chance to participate in elections.

 

“This law is extremely important as it allows the strengthening of ties with the Diaspora, will encourage an increase in population, and promote investments. If Diaspora Armenians are also citizens of the Republic of Armenia they should have the rights and obligations envisaged for the citizens of Republic of Armenia,” he said.

 

Six deputies voted against and sixty four for the bill in the first reading strongly criticized by the opposition who in its turn claim that the main political beneficiary of the dual citizenship will be the coutnry’s leadership. Arshak Sadoyan, the Chairman of the National Democratic Union, claimed the law would give fresh opportunities for leadership to falsify results in future elections.

 

“Our party is for the idea of dual citizenship to involve Diaspora Armenians in the life of the country but not for the law in the way it is now,” Sadoyan told ArmeniaNow. “Several provisions in the Bill are made to provide a reserve of votes from a non-existent electorate.”

 

Opponents of the Bill are particularly unhappy about a provision allowing persons with dual citizenship to be appointed government ministers. The Bill is also vague on issues of military service, reasons for refusing a citizenship application, and the particular government bodies that will control the procedure.

 

The bill passed in the first reading envisages to establish procedures allowing Diaspora Armenians and other foreigners to acquire citizenship of the Republic of Armenia.

 

The initiative to create dual citizenship procedures has been on the political agenda since 2005 when a ban was lifted in Armenia’s controversial referendum on reforming the Constitution.

 

Advocates of the law claim that it will create potential for pan-Armenian solidarity, allowing the Diaspora of seven million people to become a part of the country’s life.

 

Armenia’s Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan, himself originally from Syria, called the dual citizenship arrangement a way of addressing the historical injustice that has divided the nation.

 

However, critics fear that the law will allow foreign residents to influence Armenia’s domestic and political development without consequence for themselves. They also worry that it will encourage further migration of Armenian citizens, who could now legally hold a passport of another state without threatening their Armenian citizenship.

 

In fact, thousands of Armenians (mostly residing in Russia) already illegally possess two passports. They make use of the most appropriate documents for different procedures – whether starting a business or getting medical treatment in Russia, or owning land in Armenia. The concern among opponents of the law is that, since Armenians can legally be citizens of two countries, migration will increase as they choose to do business in Armenia while living abroad.

 

Amendments to the bill passed in the first reading envisage three categories of people eligible to apply for dual citizenship. The first group embraces citizens of foreign states of full legal age who have lived in Armenia for the last three years, know the Armenian language and basics of Constitution.

 

Foreign citizens married to citizens of Armenia or who have a child that is a citizen of Armenia form the second group. The third group includes persons who either were previously citizens of Armenia or who were born in Armenia.

 

Stepan Safaryan, a senior analyst at the Armenian Center for National and International Studies, says that dual citizenship is a two-way process.

 

“The law can be viewed either as a risk for the country or an opportunity and it depends which law is adopted,” says Safaryan. “A law that affects practically all spheres in the country’s life should not be adopted hastily.

 

“The Armenian public does not possess information about the reform. The concept of dual citizenship needs huge research and the law should give a clear picture of the procedures, rights and obligations involved to reduce any risks of placing the country in a state of constant migration and security problems.”

 

 

[Error 404]

I think this is a big victory towards the democracy. Now a real patriot who was educated and raised with western civilized values can go to Armenia and participate to the elections as voter or as a candidate(I guess with certain preconditions).

 

This will mark the start of the migration of politically mature and experienced human recourses to our homeland. People with real skills and free from corruption will lead the country towards the commonwealth. Armenia must cooperate and consider the opinion of diaspora and vice versa. It will only benefit from that cooperation.

 

Great Decision!

[hosank]

true...

 

obviously armenia survived because of the armenians in armenia, but we cannot just throw away the fact that armenia primarely survived because of the armenians in the diaspora

[Lev7]

Armenia + Diaspora united = worst enemy for Turks

[Aratta-Kingdom]

 

I like this dual citizenship idea. The Armenian youth from N. America can now do more for Armenia.

 

 

PRESS RELEASE

Advocates for Armenia

CONTACT: Tamar Hayrikyan, Officer

 

P.O.Box 250771

New York, NY 10025

 

Email: tamar@advocatesforarmenia.org

http://www.advocatesforarmenia.org/

Tel: 781.913.7617

 

 

Over 180 Armenian Students Gather to Discuss Their Role in Armenia's

Development

 

February 13, 2007

New York, NY

 

Over 180 Armenian students from 67 universities across United States

and Canada convened at Columbia University on February 3rd and 4th to

define their role in the development of Armenia. This summit of

Armenian students, titled "Armenia's Development: The Students' Role"

was organized by the Armenian Club of Columbia University and

Advocates for Armenia group. It was sponsored by the Armenian Center

at Columbia University and Armenian General Benevolent Union.

 

The purpose of this ground-breaking event was to empower young

Armenians to effect positive change in Armenia today. The two-day

meeting featured presentations by prominent figures in the developing

fields of business, information technology, health, law, and

education. These presentations were followed by intense working

sessions during which student participants worked with one another and

experts to formulate innovative ideas for specific, small-scale

projects to be implemented in Armenia within the next two years. At

the conclusion of the summit, the students had combined their

innovative ideas with the knowledge and expertise of the guest experts

to produce seven highly promising projects proposals. Advocates for

Armenia has committed to aiding in the implementation of these

projects primarily through the coordination of partnerships with

groups in Armenia and funding organizations in the Diaspora.

 

Levon Bagramian, chair of the summit's organizing committee, reflected

on what the future has in store. "With this summit we began turning

the attention of the Diasporan student body to Armenia's development

challenges. We have much more to do. If Armenia is to become a

prosperous, democratic country that is home to all Armenians, then we

in the Diaspora have plenty more to do to help her to get to that

stage quicker. Expect more from us."

 

Advocates for Armenia is a group of Armenian-Americans attempting to

increase the attention of the Diaspora of the United States towards

Armenia's development challenges. It will cooperate and partner with

any Diasporan group that believes that more attention is due in

matters of Armenia's development.

 

[Takoush]

PRESIDENT APPROVES LAW ON DUAL CITIZENSHIP

 

President Robert Kocharyan signed laws on making amendments in the Election Code, on Criminal and Administrative Offence, on Military Service and on RA Citizenship, president press services report.

 

The law on making amendments in the Law on Citizenship approves dual citizenship.

 

Source: Panorama.am

[15levels]

Does it mean if i was born in Armenia (lost citizenship when immigrated in 1993).. I can apply for Armenian passport? Anyone can tell me if there is any official information on how to do that???

[Takoush]

Does it mean if i was born in Armenia (lost citizenship when immigrated in 1993).. I can apply for Armenian passport? Anyone can tell me if there is any official information on how to do that???

15levels:

 

Perhaps you can e-mail and contact the RofA yourself for your question as no one seems to know in here, otherwise they would've answered you.

[Proud EXPAT]

Does it mean if i was born in Armenia (lost citizenship when immigrated in 1993).. I can apply for Armenian passport? Anyone can tell me if there is any official information on how to do that???

 

Ruben you could have always applied for an Armenian passport (a special residency passport that is).

 

I'm assuming you mean becoming a dual citizenship. Although the details aren't out yet it's sort of obvious from whatever's been mentioned so far that ANYONE with Armenian roots can apply.

[15levels]

I have searched for a proper information about the procedure and found none. I live in Israel and there is no Armenian consulate here. I can however try to apply for it in Jordan, if there is an Armenian Embassy there. If anyone can supply any useful information on how can I apply for the Armenian passport, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.