Vanahye7 Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) doesn't matter if the next generation doesn't speak armenian fluently. The most important is to teach them who they are, where they came from, who were our parents, granparents, great granparents all the story's we've heard when we were kids. and sooner or later they might want to learn more, wot a great invention internet is if it is used correctly I totally diagree with that. Once you have lost the ability to speak your native tounge, you have lost your natinal identity. You are then only a few streps away from full assymilation. What then can I ask you, will become our "new" standard of being Armenian????? Just like we have lowered our morals and values with the desensitization of being Christians, we have also lowered our standards of what it is to being an Armenian. What then is classified as being Armenian????? Just because you have an-ian/yan? Just becuase you know about the Armenian Genocide? (Every1 besides a dirty Turk knows the fact) Just because you know a few words of Armenian here and there???( my Mexican neighbor knows that) Just because you realizee that your parents or grendparents were Armenian?????(like 99% of White America whove come from European Ancesty but now are labeled as Americans) OF COURSE NOT!!! The only way we as Armenians can exist is through unity, and we need to preserve our language in order to be united. Im not say just because you dont know how to speak Armenian your not Armenian anymore, because theres always the possibility of you being educated the language and given new nationalistic feeling towards your country (which is still highly unlikely), but it sure is veryyyy closee to it, and we must NOTTT let that happen. My coiusins coworker who is Armenian and grew up here in the States, was not taught how to speak Armenian. He grew up in N. Carolina and moved to Californoia a few yrs back. He is now married to an "odar" American. What do you think the chances of him marrying an Armenian would have been had he learned how to speak Armenian?? Certainly much higherr right???? And that there, is my point, becasue not knowing how to speak Armenian isolates you being Armenian in the present and possible future events/opportunities in many manyyy waysss. Even more ways that yu cna possibly think of. It is veryyy close to the last breath of assymtilation which basically = the death of Armenia. Edited February 22, 2007 by Vanahye7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Barev Dzez, Բարեվ Ձեզ Welcome to our HyeForum, we are Happy to have you as new members Enjoy! Parev dear EDWARD, nice to meet you too, as I said to ARPA I'm so happy to found this super site where we can share between armenians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I totally diagree with that. Once you have lost the ability to speak your native tounge, you have lost your natinal identity. You are then only a few streps away from full assymilation. What then can I ask you, will become our "new" standard of being Armenian????? Just like we have lowered our morals and values with the desensitization of being Christians, we have also lowered our standards of what it is to being an Armenian. What then is classified as being Armenian????? Just because you have an-ian/yan? Just becuase you know about the Armenian Genocide? (Every1 besides a dirty Turk knows the fact) Just because you know a few words of Armenian here and there???( my Mexican neighbor knows that) Just because you realizee that your parents or grendparents were Armenian?????(like 99% of White America whove come from European Ancesty but now are labeled as Americans) OF COURSE NOT!!! The only way we as Armenians can exist is through unity, and we need to preserve our language in order to be united. Im not say just because you dont know how to speak Armenian your not Armenian anymore, because theres always a chance of you being educated and given new nationalistic feeling towards your country, but it sure is veryyyy closee to it, and we must NOTTT let that happen. of course my friend we have to keep our langage our culture our history living, but for my part I don't have any armenian around me. When I go in my family, I can speak armenian and I love to do it. But it's the only place where I can do it. Be sure I'm armenian in my heart, in my blood, in my head, I'm so proud to be and if I'm here tonight on this armenian it's really cause I need it. to feel near of my people. ( I hope U understand all wot I mean) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Gor-gor, the things you said about Quebec and the community here are right. Here, we just know English and French but use Armenian. The will to encourage cultural stuff is concretely represented by the fact that the provincial government gives money to cultural/religious schools to encourage them. Some older immigrant communities that came here prior to the Bill 101 and other French language laws tend to align themselves with Anglophones. For example, I've had a 35-40 year old Greek couple as neighbours, that almost always spoke English with each other. Hopefully it (or French) won't get to us in the near future. Edited February 22, 2007 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 of course my friend we have to keep our langage our culture our history living, but for my part I don't have any armenian around me. When I go in my family, I can speak armenian and I love to do it. But it's the only place where I can do it. Be sure I'm armenian in my heart, in my blood, in my head, I'm so proud to be and if I'm here tonight on this armenian it's really cause I need it. to feel near of my people. ( I hope U understand all wot I mean) Ariane, you live in France...there are 500 000 Armenians there Go out and meet them in community centers, it's important to interact with other Armenians. Unity is the key. I live in Montreal, where the community of Armenians is about 40 000 (if not less) and we're all still together. In fact, you can't even swear in Armenian sometimes because the average Arab, Greek or even Quebecois will know it's Armenian! lolll Make your prescence known. Keep the culture alive. C'est pas tres difficile, tu as 499 999 d'autres Armenien et Armenienne a decouvrir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Ariane, you live in France...there are 500 000 Armenians there Go out and meet them in community centers, it's important to interact with other Armenians. Unity is the key. I live in Montreal, where the community of Armenians is about 40 000 (if not less) and we're all still together. In fact, you can't even swear in Armenian sometimes because the average Arab, Greek or even Quebecois will know it's Armenian! lolll Make your prescence known. Keep the culture alive. C'est pas tres difficile, tu as 499 999 d'autres Armenien et Armenienne a decouvrir. don't worry I swore in armenian, u know !!!!! and I know I just have to take the time to go in armenian community, I live in a village near Montpellier (France, not Vermont), the first thing i've done when I start somewhere is to watch white pages to see if there's some armenian family, unfortunately, there's some turks but no armenian, I'm the only armenian in my village, and everyone knows that. there's some armenians in Montpellier, I've already met them, but I want to be right with u, when I've met them, they've make me feel that I wasn't a good armenian cause I was Western Armenian and they are Armenian from Armenia, they speak armenian better than me, their husbands or wife are armenian ( u know wot I mean ). Sorry but for me no problem an Armenian is an Armenian in his heart, blood, head. Look this young boy on this forum Irlandhay, he's half armenian but he's patriot, I'm proud of him he's an Armenian. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosank Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 ce n'est pas correcte, malgré que c'est connu, plus ou moins, que les Hayastansis peuvent être condéscendants evers les autres arméniens. il y a deux ans, j'étais à bordeaux pour le marriage de ma cousine, Aude Terjanian. sa mère est francaise, et chez elle, on ne parle pas l'arménien, tout ce qu'elle a d'arménien chez elle est son nom de famille. à son marriage, qui, premièrement, n'était même pas religieux, il n'y avais rien d'arménien. elle avait mème invité une famille de turcs. ILS LUI ONT MÊME FAIT UNE DANCE TURQUE EN SON HONNEUR. as-tu vu le film, "voyage en Arménie"? surement, tu te rendra compte que sa fille, même si elle dance l'arménien, n'est qu'un ¼ arménienne. Anna, l'hétoine, est moitié arménienne, mais ne parle pas l'arménien et ne se sent pas arménienne. c'est ce qui est malheureux à mon avis en France, les armeniens là bas sont si bien intégrés dans la societé française, si séculaires, "libérés" et socialistes, qu'ils ne sont plus arméniens. la langue arménienne est presque aussi importante que la culture,l'histoire, et tout cela. ma grandmère est armenienne de France, et souvant avec la famille, nous palrons plus de français que d'arménien. c'est souvant moi qui fais l'effort de faire conversation en arménien. tu devrais faire autant. envoye tes enfants à l'ecole en armenien, parle leurs en armenien à la maisons...de toutes façons, ils parlent le français partout ailleurs. evidemment, l'idéal pour les communautés arméniennes autour du globe est de retourner à la mère patrie, un jour. ces temps si, cet idéal est de plus en plus proche de la réalité. aujourd'hui, nous avons une arménie libre. à mon avis, chaque arménien qui vit dans un pays étranger dois faire un choix: "suis-je arménien ou Canadien (ou français, ou allemand, ou américain...)" j'estère, evidemment, que la réponse sera "je suis arménien", c'est la réponse que je me suis donné. il faut comprendre, que pour rester arménien, il y a des sacrifices à faire, le sacrifice ultime est de retourner à notre terre. car la partie a besoin des ses fils et filles. c'est très difficile de guarder son identité quand nous vivont séparés de nos conpatriotes, entourés par une majorité........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 ce n'est pas correcte, malgré que c'est connu, plus ou moins, que les Hayastansis peuvent être condéscendants evers les autres arméniens. il y a deux ans, j'étais à bordeaux pour le marriage de ma cousine, Aude Terjanian. sa mère est francaise, et chez elle, on ne parle pas l'arménien, tout ce qu'elle a d'arménien chez elle est son nom de famille. à son marriage, qui, premièrement, n'était même pas religieux, il n'y avais rien d'arménien. elle avait mème invité une famille de turcs. ILS LUI ONT MÊME FAIT UNE DANCE TURQUE EN SON HONNEUR. as-tu vu le film, "voyage en Arménie"? surement, tu te rendra compte que sa fille, même si elle dance l'arménien, n'est qu'un ¼ arménienne. Anna, l'hétoine, est moitié arménienne, mais ne parle pas l'arménien et ne se sent pas arménienne. c'est ce qui est malheureux à mon avis en France, les armeniens là bas sont si bien intégrés dans la societé française, si séculaires, "libérés" et socialistes, qu'ils ne sont plus arméniens. la langue arménienne est presque aussi importante que la culture,l'histoire, et tout cela. ma grandmère est armenienne de France, et souvant avec la famille, nous palrons plus de français que d'arménien. c'est souvant moi qui fais l'effort de faire conversation en arménien. tu devrais faire autant. envoye tes enfants à l'ecole en armenien, parle leurs en armenien à la maisons...de toutes façons, ils parlent le français partout ailleurs. evidemment, l'idéal pour les communautés arméniennes autour du globe est de retourner à la mère patrie, un jour. ces temps si, cet idéal est de plus en plus proche de la réalité. aujourd'hui, nous avons une arménie libre. à mon avis, chaque arménien qui vit dans un pays étranger dois faire un choix: "suis-je arménien ou Canadien (ou français, ou allemand, ou américain...)" j'estère, evidemment, que la réponse sera "je suis arménien", c'est la réponse que je me suis donné. il faut comprendre, que pour rester arménien, il y a des sacrifices à faire, le sacrifice ultime est de retourner à notre terre. car la partie a besoin des ses fils et filles. c'est très difficile de guarder son identité quand nous vivont séparés de nos conpatriotes, entourés par une majorité........... Tu as raison, et si je suis sur ce site aujourd'hui c'est parce que je me sens arménienne avant tout, la question ne se pose même pas. d'ailleurs mes deux parents sont arméniens, mon père Yozgadli, ma mère Kharpetsi (from Parchanj). Je suis celle qui lance le dialogue en arménien lorsque je vais dans ma famille à Marseille, j'aime parler ma langue pour ne pas l'oublier, c'est primordial. Quand au retour en Arménie, impossible pour le moment, dans ma tête ! Pour moi mon Arménie c'est la terre de mes grands parents, celle qui nous a été volée, la plus grande partie de l'Arménie, le tiers pour ne pas dire la moitié du territoire que ces PIDJS (bâtards) occupent. Lorsque j'étais enfant je demandais à mes grands parents " ira-t-on en Arménie, un jour, je veux voir mon pays " ils me répondaient alors " l'Arménie n'est plus l'Arménie ", mais bien sûr quelle fierté d'avoir aujourd'hui ce petit territoire si cher à mon coeur, cette partie de l' Arménie qui nous fait tant espérer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 mon père Yozgadli, I knew you had someone from Yozgat, because of "Subeurag" you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I knew you had someone from Yozgat, because of "Subeurag" you mentioned. Are you Yozgadli too, Yervant ? Do you like SUBEREI too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Are you Yozgadli too, Yervant ? Do you like SUBEREI too ? Yes both my parents and their parents, my mom was the master of it. Most Armenians don't know this because it's a specialty of Yozgat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 so... what do you get when western and eastern armenian have a kid? mijin hay?... ... maybe aghvor apero?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armenak Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 so... what do you get when western and eastern armenian have a kid? mijin hay?... ... maybe aghvor apero?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariane Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yes both my parents and their parents, my mom was the master of it. Most Armenians don't know this because it's a specialty of Yozgat. I wasn't know that cause as I said the other part of my family is from Kharpert and they were cooking that too, may be cause my granfather was a baker and you know armenian family were comming into our shop for to cook it in the big owen. have you seen how they prepare it ? they take the little ball of pasta they open it like round sheet and they boil each of it without breaking the sheet, it was FANTASTIC the ability they had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 I wasn't know that cause as I said the other part of my family is from Kharpert and they were cooking that too, may be cause my granfather was a baker and you know armenian family were comming into our shop for to cook it in the big owen. have you seen how they prepare it ? they take the little ball of pasta they open it like round sheet and they boil each of it without breaking the sheet, it was FANTASTIC the ability they had Yes I know how it's made, it's an art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosank Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Impossible? rien est impossible... mon plan dans la vie, une fois l'université terminée, c'est vol sens unique vers Yérévan au temps de tes grandparents, il'y avait qu'une arménie soviétique, une arménie sous le joug des armées rouges, des ogres staliniens. aujourd'hui, nous avons un pays, même si ce n'est pas tout ce qu'on nous a volé, c'est un début. on ne peut pas s'assoir et attendre que qu'elqun nous rende notre terre, c'est à nous de le faire. chaque action que nous pausons est un pas vers l'arménie que nous connaissons par nos grandparents. j'ai bien dit que l'Idéal est un retour à la terre natale, mais je suis un réaliste, je sais bien que 5 millions d'arméniens ne vont pas simplement se déplacer pour réétablir les liens avec leurs 3 millions de confrères d'ici au lendemain. si tu veux mon avis, au moins visite ta terre, c'est ce que j'ai fais à plusieures reprises, tu verras, tu tomberas amoureuse de ta terre. depuis la première fois que j'ai foulé le sol d'arménie, il ne s'écoule pas un jour où je n'y pense pas. peux-tu lire et écrire l'arménien? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 ես Գաթոլիքական դպրոց քազի Մոնթրեալի մեչ ինզի տարբերութիւն չներ, բարեկամներով հայերէն կը խոսիմ (թուք քիտէք, Դավո ու ԱՔ) Դպրոցը մի Grade 6 կ՛երթա, բայց հայէրենս բաւական լաւ է: հարցումն է վոր քանի հատ արեվմդահայ կան աշխարին մեչ բայց ինչ՞ու կարեվոր է: Բոլորս ալ մի ասք ենք, Հայ Քանի որ տարբեր մշակոյթ եղած է: Քոնէ 1700 դարէն ի վէր՝ հայ ժողովուրդը ունեցած է երկու կեդրոն եւ երկու տարբեր մշակոյթ: Արեւմտահայ մշակոյթի կեդրոնը եղած է Պոլիս՝ եւ իր մտաւորականները յաճախած են արեւմտեան Եւրոպայի մէջ: Իսկ արեւելահայ մշակոյթը (մինչեւ 1918) ունեցած է իր կեդրոնը որպէս Թիֆլիս, իսկ իր մտաւորականները յաճախած են Ռուսիայ ու հետեւաբար Ռուսական «դպրոցի» մօտեցումը ունին: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) There are many things I want to reply to and haven't had the chance to, as I was out of town. But one thing I definitely want to say something about is the heightened use of Armenian language amongst the new generation of Armenians in Montreal, in comparison with the new generation of Armenians in other North American (or South American, or European) communities. It has been my hypothesis that the reason that Canadian (and specifically Montreal/Quebec) Armenians more readily and more ably speak Armenian is because of the different language culture that exists in Canada/Quebec. First, the people in Quebec know first-hand what it means to fight for the right to speak and use a minority language, and therefore are more tolerant, and even encourage using minority languages. Second, English is not as pervasive in Canada/Quebec as it is in the US. There are 2 official languages in Canada, and just that mere fact plays a psychological role in the minds of young Armenians. Not everything is in English, and so you do not feel the social pressure to speak in English all the time. The fact that there are 2 official languages opens your mind to the idea that English (or French) does not rule all. Կեցցէ՛ Մոնռէյալը եւ Քեպեքը: Նաեւ՝ Ամերիկացի ժողովուրդը շատ «racist» է: Քեպեքցին իր մշակոյթներուն ոչթէ միայն կ'ընդունի այլ կը քաչալերէ՛. եւ այս երեւոյթը կը գտնաս կարաւարութենէն մինչեւ անհատներ... Ամերիկայի պարագային արդէն «institutionalized» ձուլում կը կատարեն (կարաւարութեան կողմէ) ուր մէկ ազգ կը ստեղծուի: Իս Ամերիկացի ամհատներ շատ քեշ աչքով կը նային «ethnic»ներուն եւ այս պատճառավ ալ ուսում ունեցող, «average» եւ շատ ատեններ «professional» հայը չ'ուզէր հայ ըլլալ քանի որ եթէ անգլերէն չ'խօսի 110% «California accent»ով օտարներ քեզի «ethnic» կը տեսնան (մանաւա՛նդ Լոս Անճելըս՝ ոչ այդքան Սան Ֆրանսիսքօ ուր աւելի «immigrant»ները աւելի լաւ աչքով նայուած են որովհետեւ Silicon Valleyն կը դարձնեն իրենք): Նաեւ ուրիշ բան մըն ալ կայ: Մոնռէյալի ժողովուրդը աւելի շնորհք ունի քան թէ Ամերիկայի ուեւէ մէկ քաղաքի: Այս մէկը կարծեմ Ֆրանսական մշակոյթէն կու գայ: Մինչ այդ՝ Ամերիկացին անշնորհք է եւ բանի մը չի հաւատար (բացի դրամէն): Հետեւաբար՝ հայութիւնը այս երկու մթնոլորտներուն իրարմէ շատ կը տարբերին եւ անոր համար հիմա նոյնիսկ արեւմտահայերու մէջ ալ «sub-culture»ներ կան: Այսինքն՝ Լոս Անճելըսի արեւմտահայը որ գիտէ հայերէն բայց չի խօսիր եւ կ'ուզէ հեռանալ հայութենէն կամ անտարբեր է հայ ըլլալէն, շատ տարբեր է Մոնռէյալի հայէն որ գիտէ հայերէն ու կը խօսի ու քոնէ կ'անդրադառնայ որ հայ է: Overall, today, USA: Good place to make money; terrible place to live, even if you *have* money. Edited February 23, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 sure, but for example, though i live in montreal, i hardly ever find myself speaking french to my armenian friends, english or armenian. though this is a theory, i think we must consider a few facts here. first, most armenians living in the states have been there for a couple generations, when i was younger, i went to the AGBU camp Noubar in New York, though i am only half irish, i could speak, read and write a good armenian, unlike most people around me, after a while, the language gets lost. second, is the community. the armenian community in montreal is much closer, and lives around it's churches and cultural centres, and almost all of us live in laval. this is lesser the case in toronto, where we notice that most armenian youths speak more english to each other. in los angeles, for example, there are alot of armenians who live close together, that helps the language and culture survive. united we stand, divided we fall right? I think you have a misconception of Los Angeles. The only reason why "community life" exists in Los Angeles is due to the continued influx of Armenians from Lebanon, Iran, and more recently, Armenia. Therefore, L.A. is not a sustainable Armenian community, since without those "nests" of Armenian communities (now fledgling Lebanon, Iran, and Armenia) the L.A. community would disappear. (And most L.A. Armenian are first generation, unlike many in the Fresno, San Francisco, and New York/Boston area.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Very very very right Gor-Gor I'm a Montreal Armenian. It is well known that Montreal armenians and the rest of North American (NA) Armenians are very different from each other. In Montreal as well as other communities (TO, NYC, Boston, Detroit, LA, etc) many armenians come from the middle east, istanbul, etc. Also, the time of immigration is not much different because all communities have large sections of armenians that arrived in the last 30 years (from Lebanon, Egypt, etc), who knew how to speak armenian and were active in community life back at home. Moreover, the country (Canada, US ... don't know about Mexico) is not a reason either since TO armenians are much less armenian speaking than Montrealers (in general that is). Therefore, the origins of the community, the country in which the community is situated, or its time of formation are not potential reasons differentiating Montreal from the rest of NA communities. The natural question is therefore the following: "What is fundamentally different about Montreal?" The answer is quite simple: The presence of the francophone culture, the fact that there are two cultures, the local french canadian culture and the north american one (since Quebec is surrounded by over 300 million anglophones). It is easier to keep your identity between two big currents than in a single huge one (the anglophone) that does not allow any resistance at all! You can very clearly oberve the same phenomenon with other communities (Lebanese, Greek, Italian, etc). Montreal allows you to keep a stronger identity of origin than any other city in NA. A. Այո՛: I'll soon be joining you guys up there. L.A.'s the worst place to be an Armenian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armenak Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Շահան, Maybe it's because Montreal has a proportional balance of immigrants. On the other hand, Մեքսիքացիներ make up nearly half of Los Angeles (and the southwestern United States). Then you've got a ton of other ethnic immigrants thrown in ("melting pot"). Anyway, you're right about Americans encouraging (or hoping for) assimilation of immigrants. Once, when I was at a diner in Glendale I overheard some Americans talking about Armenians. One of them confidently said, "They'll all be Americanized within a few generations." The way he said it seemed diabolical. I smiled because I knew I wouldn't be one of the Americanized ones - no way - but it made me feel uneasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 I totally diagree with that. Once you have lost the ability to speak your native tounge, you have lost your natinal identity. You are then only a few streps away from full assymilation. What then can I ask you, will become our "new" standard of being Armenian????? Just like we have lowered our morals and values with the desensitization of being Christians, we have also lowered our standards of what it is to being an Armenian. What then is classified as being Armenian????? Just because you have an-ian/yan? Just becuase you know about the Armenian Genocide? (Every1 besides a dirty Turk knows the fact) Just because you know a few words of Armenian here and there???( my Mexican neighbor knows that) Just because you realizee that your parents or grendparents were Armenian?????(like 99% of White America whove come from European Ancesty but now are labeled as Americans) OF COURSE NOT!!! The only way we as Armenians can exist is through unity, and we need to preserve our language in order to be united. Im not say just because you dont know how to speak Armenian your not Armenian anymore, because theres always the possibility of you being educated the language and given new nationalistic feeling towards your country (which is still highly unlikely), but it sure is veryyyy closee to it, and we must NOTTT let that happen. My coiusins coworker who is Armenian and grew up here in the States, was not taught how to speak Armenian. He grew up in N. Carolina and moved to Californoia a few yrs back. He is now married to an "odar" American. What do you think the chances of him marrying an Armenian would have been had he learned how to speak Armenian?? Certainly much higherr right???? And that there, is my point, becasue not knowing how to speak Armenian isolates you being Armenian in the present and possible future events/opportunities in many manyyy waysss. Even more ways that yu cna possibly think of. It is veryyy close to the last breath of assymtilation which basically = the death of Armenia. Agreed that language is key for Armenian culture as is. But Armenian national philosophy is the other key component (read Njteh, Aghpalian, Melkonian, Natalie). Without Armenian national philosophy, you only have language and traditions. It's the philosophy that persists the nation. Regarding religion: note that Armenians aren't defined by their religion, since they have had at least three religions over 2,500 years: Zoroastrianism, Hellenistic and Persian gods/goddesses, and later Christianity. I don't see being Christian as being a prerequisite to being an Armenian. I was baptized an Armenian Apostolic Christian, but I certainly don't go to church very often nor do I pray, nor do I think Jews are god's chosen people, nor any of those other stories in the Bible. I *do* however read the works of Njteh, Aghpalian, and the rest, who I think provide the *real* "nutrients" of being an Armenian, independent of one's religion; this is our real cultural evolution. (I also like studying the Armenian alphabet, its evolution, and the Armenian language itself.) I can be Buddhist and still be a practicing Armenian. I can be a New Age philosopher and still be a practicing Armenian. I like going to Armenian church only to meet people in the community and for the colorful frescoes, the artistic gowns of the priests, the smell of khoong, the fancy alter, the pleasant-sounding sharagans, and, occasionally, a good հայրենասէր, community-building sermon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 ... but for my part I don't have any armenian around me... You need a critical mass of people in order to sustain a community. It comes from a very basic and low-level explanation: պէտք է բաւարար հայ տղաք ըլլան աղչկայ մը համար որմէ կրնայ ան զատել կամ հանդիպիլ իր սիրածին: (Նոյն ձեւով տղուն Եթէ ան չ'գտնայ այս անձին հայկական շրչանակէն՝ ինքնաբերաբար օր մը օտա՛ր շրչանակէ անձի մը պիտի հանդիպի որ պիտի սիրէ: Անոր համար Հայաստանը գրեթէ միակ տեղն է որ «sustainable» հայկական գաղութ կայ՝ քանի որ որու հետ որ ալ սիրահարուիս հայ պիտի ըլլայ... Ինչո՞ւ համար կ'ըսեմ թէ արեւմտահայ մշակոյթը վտանգի տակ է: Քանի որ ներկայ Հայաստանի (միակ «sustainable» գաղութի) մշակոյթը ներկային միայն արեւելահայ մշակոյթն է: (Չեմ կարծեր կրնանք Լիբանանը սեպել որպէս «sustainable» քանի որ thresholdէն պակաս է այլեւս հայութեան բնակչութիւնը հոն...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Շահան, Maybe it's because Montreal has a proportional balance of immigrants. On the other hand, Մեքսիքացիներ make up nearly half of Los Angeles (and the southwestern United States). Then you've got a ton of other ethnic immigrants thrown in ("melting pot"). Anyway, you're right about Americans encouraging (or hoping for) assimilation of immigrants. Once, when I was at a diner in Glendale I overheard some Americans talking about Armenians. One of them confidently said, "They'll all be Americanized within a few generations." The way he said it seemed diabolical. I smiled because I knew I wouldn't be one of the Americanized ones - no way - but it made me feel uneasy. Americans are known to be racist (despite all the marketing and propaganda they spread to the contrary via TV). And anyone who's lived in both L.A. and Montreal for some time will tell you the same. Another factor I forgot to mention is the entertainment industry in L.A. L.A. is the hub of global culture-creation. The "cultural professionals" in L.A. (television, movies, music, etc) are defining "culture" for 80% of the working class people in the world, who after working the whole day have no time to take part in community life (let alone create culture *themselves*) and end up in front of the tube, where they get their "culture" by watching Friends, American Idol, the Bachelor, and reality shows. What follows is that the more a society is working, the more they watch television, and the more their culture is defined by Hollywood "cultural professionals" -- basically the intellectual prostitutes who are hired by the same guys who own shares in all the other global corporations. They've got one goal: dumb down society and create mindless consumers who buy things that they don't need to impress people who they don't know with money that they don't have (use other people's money via credit cards and end up spending $20 on a $10 product). With consumer culture having spread globally like wildfire, I think the global creditors have largely reached their goal. (And this is the case, even though 40% of the world - 2.5 Billion people - still live on less than $2 per day.) (As an aside: Does humanity have hope? Yes! What's the solution? STOP WATCHING CORPORATE TELEVISION, STOP CONSUMING CORPORATE MEDIA! Think for yourself. Get your information for free online.) My point is, people in the U.S. work a lot more and have a lot less free time than people in Montreal. Life is a lot more relaxed in Montreal, I find. Edited February 23, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yete gousagtsoutioun gam voryeve gazmagerboutioun chi ga ov bidi garoutsé yev khnamé haygagan getronnereh? Դպրոցներու կարաւարութիւնը կուսակցութեան մը գործը չէ՛, այլ՝ գործը ուսումնական խորհուրդի մը ընտրուած գաղութին կողմէ whose members are elected based on *merit* (including credentials, degrees, and experience). For example, you can't have a former car mechanic run a school. Chem gardzer vor ashkhari arachin krisdonya yergireh barzabes bidi tske krisdoneoutiouneh. 301 tvin Arshagouniats takavoroutioune krisdonia tartsav vorovhedev ge havadayin, arants kidnalou abakayi hay joghovourtin vijagin masin. Հայութիւնը անկախ է կրօնքէ: Կրօնքը կը փոխուի՝ հայութիւնը կը մնայ: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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