Armenian Genocide Bill 2007

[DominO123]

Or to Armenia.

 

Another viable option.

 

It would be great to have a country with 8 million people. We first need to fix the NK issue, it's fusion with Armenia, the only viable solution.

[Error 404]

But if they move they should take with them everything they have invented, invested here.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

I guess it is time for Armenians from the US to pack their bags and come to Canada.

 

For some time already, I have been thinking why do the jews from U.S. buy properties in Canada.../?/...

Maybe they know something we don't. Is American gonna have the same faith the Roman empire had?

 

...I hope not!

Edited October 18, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Aratta-Kingdom]

If it wasn't for the turkish hysteria, stupidity, the Armenian-genocide woldn't have had this much media coverage. Today the world has made it its business to talk about A.G. . Driven by fear of personal interests, even the representatives opposing the resolution, did so by not questioning the facts about the genocide.

 

The rude awakening will force the U.S. to punish the turks- and to stop pimping for turkey. This isn't the end yet. In fact, this is just the beginning.

 

Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff will leave to the armenians to decide if the bill should be brought to the House floor for a vote. The ball now is in our court.

 

Honestly, at this stage, I'm satisfied with our achievements. Not to take our eyes off the goal, I will strongly suggest to also work hay anhati dzevavorman, hamanqneri miasnakan dzragrer irakanacnelu, u Hayq@ kayun yerkir dardznelu harcov. Mezanic amen mek@ yete ga ayn gitakcutyan vor iren karecatsi gone hing tokosov gorts ani, hamozvats em menq shat aveli herun kgnanq kan patkeracnum enq.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Lev7]

It looks like the resolution will not be brought to a House floor

 

_______________________________________________

 

 

House Speaker Now Unsure if Armenian Genocide Motion Will Reach a Vote

 

Published: October 18, 2007

 

WASHINGTON, Oct. 17 — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Wednesday that she was reconsidering her pledge to force a vote on a resolution condemning as genocide the mass killing of Armenians starting in 1915, as President Bush intensified his push to derail the legislation.

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Doug Mills/The New York Times

 

Representative Alcee L. Hastings of Florida, left, an opponent of the Armenian proposal, conferring with three other House Democrats, some of whom also expressed doubts: from left, Robert Wexler of Florida, and John Tanner and Steve Cohen, both of Tennessee.

 

“Whether it will come up or not and what the action will be remains to be seen,” Ms. Pelosi said in light of the decline in support for the proposal, which, though nonbinding, has angered Turkey and raised fears that the Turkish government could reduce its strategic cooperation with the United States.

 

The comments by the speaker, a key supporter of the measure, added to growing evidence that modern-day pragmatism was overwhelming supporters’ demands that the House render a historical verdict on the killings of the Armenians by Ottoman Turks.

 

Mr. Bush, who as a candidate in 2000 criticized what he called a “genocidal campaign” against the Armenians, said lawmakers had better things to do than be caught up in the past, pursuing legislation that has unsettled an important ally.

 

“With all these pressing responsibilities, one thing Congress should not be doing is sorting out the historical record of the Ottoman Empire,” Mr. Bush said. “Congress has more important work to do than antagonizing a democratic ally in the Muslim world, especially one that is providing vital support for our military every day.”

 

Backers of the resolution said they would push ahead despite mounting opposition and try to rally support for the declaration, which they said was essential to deter future genocide and protect America’s credibility in speaking out against brutality in places like Darfur and Myanmar.

 

It also was not lost on them that Mr. Bush was willing to risk upsetting China by honoring the Dalai Lama in a ceremony in the Capitol Rotunda in an expression of support for democracy and human rights.

 

“As we take this principled moral stand in defiance of the Chinese government, we must similarly be willing to speak out on the Armenian genocide,” said a statement issued by the six chief sponsors of the House resolution. “If we as a nation are to be a moral leader around the world, we must have the courage to recognize genocide whenever and wherever it occurs.”

 

One of those sponsors, Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California, acknowledged that the resolution had split Jewish lawmakers, with some backing the resolution and others pointing to the risk to Israel should Turkey’s role as a stabilizing force in the region be diminished. He said it would be tragic if Israel’s security became a rationale for not recognizing a case of genocide.

 

“There is no nexus, but Turkey would like to make one,” he said.

 

A group of House Democrats pointed more to Turkey’s continuing cooperation in the war in Iraq in urging Ms. Pelosi to refrain from scheduling any vote on the proposal, which they said would not pass in the current environment.

 

“I’ve got the compassion for the people, the Armenians that are fighting for their ancestors,” said Representative Steve Cohen, a Tennessee Democrat who visited Iraq this month. “But these are real-life situations, and sometimes your heart has to give in to your head and do what makes sense for your country.”

 

Other lawmakers questioned whether it was wise for Congress to pass judgment on the behavior of other nations when it had yet to weigh in on some of its own, like the treatment of American Indians in the settlement of the continent.

 

“All the time when we won, it was a victory, and when they won, it was a massacre,” Representative Alcee L. Hastings, a Florida Democrat who opposes the genocide resolution, said of the Indians. “Yet they were the ones being chased all the way across the country, and no one has ever apologized to them.”

 

Congress occasionally embarks on delicate historical issues with foreign policy implications. It did so this year when it approved a resolution calling for Japan to acknowledge using women from occupied territories as sex slaves during World War II. The vote angered Japanese officials, but their objections failed to persuade the House to drop the matter.

 

Armenian-Americans saw parallels in the vote on the Japanese issue and the Armenian proposal, and they urged the House to move ahead.

 

“It is shameful and hypocritical that the Bush administration would cede our moral authority in condemning genocide, thereby becoming an enabler in Turkey’s worldwide multimillion-dollar campaign of genocide denial,” said a statement from the Armenian National Committee of America, which painted Turkey as an unreliable ally.

 

But opponents of the resolution said that if Turkey should be lost as a partner, any effort to bring the war in Iraq to a close could be greatly complicated.

 

“This is not about Turkey, pro-Turkey or anti-Armenia, or vice versa,” said Representative John Tanner, Democrat of Tennessee. “From my perspective, it is about the United States being able to bring a swift — hopefully — resolution to this conflict in Iraq.”

 

Mr. Schiff, who had appeared close to expecting House approval of the resolution after an initial victory in the Foreign Affairs Committee last week, seemed resigned that it now might not prevail in light of the push from the administration, Turkey’s government, lobbyists retained by Turkey and worried lawmakers.

 

“We have the truth on our side,” Mr. Schiff said, “but the truth doesn’t always win.”

[Z'areh]

Most probably the vote is not going to be brought to the House floor, as I had feared, and the battle will be left to be fought in the future. The Bush, and the next, administration is going to have a hell of a weapon in their disposal to push Turkey around and make them do exactly what the US wants. The Americans are, in turn, going to demand some dividends for their pro-Turkish actions. I think the Turks will look up and see that the genocide sword on top of their heads has doubled in size. Knowing Turkey though, and its illusions of self-aggrandzement, probably will commit a foolish act and attack Kurdish Iraq, they are iching to do that for a while and this is an opportunity hard to pass, then we'll see Americans hitting the fan.

 

On the other hand if the resolution does pass, what would the Bush and Co. give to Turkey to make the resolution pill easier to swallow, I wonder if the Armenians would be happy to see Turkey benefit enormously form this resolutions.

 

Looking at Turkey's history we see that it has benefitted throughout the 20th century, regardless of political situations and I see no reason for that to change. Somehow Turkey will always be important to someone.

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Just minutes ago people close to speaker Pelosi and Rep. Adam Schiff have declared from Horizon TV that speker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff along with 215 other representatives still strongly support the Armenian-genocide resolution.

 

Every single day the government of turkey spends over $300,000 on denial compaign. An image has been created by the media that 300,000,000 Americans are simply against the genocide resolution.

 

 

The people of America are victims of 'MISINFORMATION' - ' DISINFORMATION' - & - ' INCOMPLETE INFORMATION'

 

 

 

The Armenian-genocide resolution will be brought to the House floor for a vote in couple of weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Today president Bush sent a strong signal to the turks by saying

 

"We are making it very clear to Turkey that we don't think it is in their interests to send troops into Iraq," Mr. Bush told reporters at a White House news conference.

 

 

 

 

 

Also today the Pentagon press secretary said:"The Turks are clearly frustrated, ...they're clearly angry. But I also do not think there is a great of appetite to take this next step. It would be an enormous step. It would have enormous implications, not just for us but for the Turks. And I don't think there is any rush to war on the part of the Turks."

 

 

 

 

The turks might be ignorant, but they got no guts to hurt the American interests.

 

 

 

 

 

[MosJan]

Pelosi Says Armenian Genocide Bill’s Fate Uncertain

 

Reuters, AFP

 

The future of a U.S. House resolution calling the 1915 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turks genocide appeared in doubt on Wednesday after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said whether it would come to the floor for a vote "remains to be seen."

 

Support for the resolution has eroded sharply since it was passed by the House Foreign Affairs Committee last week. Critical Iraq war ally Turkey warned it would damage relations with the United States and President George W. Bush condemned it.

 

"Whether it will come up or not, what the action will be, remains to be seen," Pelosi, a California Democrat, told reporters on Wednesday. She previously had vowed it would get a vote of the full chamber sometime this year.

 

Pelosi said on Wednesday she had always supported the nonbinding, largely symbolic resolution, but she would be working with other advocates to see what they wanted to do now.

 

Lawmakers from both political parties have been withdrawing their names from the resolution in recent days in the face of criticism from Turkey and Bush. Some key Democrats as well as Republicans oppose it.

 

Looking to defuse tensions with a key US ally, Bush on Wednesday urged the Congress to drop the resolution. "One thing Congress should not be doing is sorting out the historical record of the Ottoman Empire," Bush said at a press conference, branding the measure "counterproductive."

 

"Congress has more important work to do than antagonizing a democratic ally in the Muslim world, especially one that's providing vital support for our military every day," in places like Iraq, he said.

 

Turkey calls the resolution insulting and rejects the Armenian position, backed by many Western historians, that up to 1.5 million Armenians suffered genocide at the hands of Ottoman Turks during World War One.

 

The United States is highly dependent on Turkey's Incirlik air base. About 70 percent of the U.S. military air cargo into Iraq transits that base, according to the Defense Department.

 

Key Democrats in the House of Representatives on Tuesday joined Republicans to warn that the resolution could harm U.S. strategic interests. Democrats, including Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania, a longtime member of Pelosi's inner circle, urged her not to bring the proposal to the floor and Republicans called the resolution another "irresponsible" foray into foreign policy.

[MosJan]

like i was not depressed enough

[Aratta-Kingdom]

#1.Pelosi Says Armenian Genocide Bill's Fate Uncertain

 

 

 

#2."Whether it will come up or not, what the action will be, remains to be seen," Pelosi, a California Democrat, told reporters on Wednesday. .

 

 

 

 

#1 Is a disinformation

 

#2 Is a incomplete information

 

 

Instead, speaker Pelosi said

 

 

"It will be up to the bill's sponsors, led by Democratic Representative Adam Schiff of California, to decide whether the resolution gets a vote in the full U.S. House this year"

Edited October 18, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Aratta-Kingdom]

HOUSE COMMITTEE SIDES WITH TRUTH, WHILE BUSH SIDES WITH TURKEY

 

By Harut Sassounian, Publisher, The California Courier

 

The Los Angeles Times published last week a very brief, yet insightful letter to the editor. In mere twelve words, reader Daniel P. Quinn of St. Petersburg, Florida, summarized Pres. Bush’s position on the Armenian Genocide resolution: "President Bush was asked to choose between two allies: Turkey or truth." Regrettably, Pres. Bush made the wrong choice. He chose to side with Turkey rather than the truth.

 

Standing in the White House Rose Garden, just hours before the House Foreign Affairs Committee was to vote on the Genocide resolution, Pres. Bush shamelessly told reporters: "This resolution is not the right response to these historic mass killings." The way the President has dealt with the Armenian Genocide issue is as follows – make false promises to Armenian-Americans during the presidential campaign in order to get their contributions and votes, and fool them into believing that he will keep his word after the election.

 

Pres. Bush may be able to get away with misrepresenting facts while in the White House, but he cannot force Speaker Nancy Pelosi to do the same in the House of Representatives.

 

Sadly, Pres. Bush was not alone in taking such a shameful position using the war in Iraq as a cover. The Secretaries of State and Defense, eight former secretaries of state, three former defense secretaries, the President and Defense Minister of Israel, several Jewish American organizations, top Turkish officials and their Washington lobbyists, all failed to tell the truth. Their names will forever be recorded in the annals of history as genocide deniers.

 

One politician, who takes the prize for the most hypocritical behavior, is Rep. Jane Harman (D-El Segundo). She will be hounded by Southern California’s large Armenian community until she is no longer in office. She deviously sent a private letter to Speaker Pelosi saying that she will vote against the genocide resolution, while keeping her name as a co-sponsor. Rep. Harman apparently tried to benefit from the continued support of the Armenian-American community, by fooling them into thinking that she is on their side, while quietly undermining the resolution’s approval! Only after her ruse was exposed by supporters of the resolution, she made her letter to Pelosi public by posting it on her website. Flip-flopping is bad enough. Being devious and getting caught is much worse.

 

To all American officials who have mindlessly kept repeating that the Genocide resolution should be opposed because it would "significantly damage our efforts to promote reconciliation between Armenia and Turkey at a key turning point in their relations," Armenian President Kocharian came up with a devastating answer: "It’s impossible to damage non-existent relations."

 

There were plenty of other idiotic remarks made by those opposing the resolution. For example, after Nabi Sensoy, Turkey’s ambassador to the United States, was recalled, Prime Minister Erdogan said that he had learned about his Ambassador’s recall from reading Turkish newspapers, just like any other citizen! Incidentally, it was completely foolish of the Turkish government to have summoned its envoy in Washington back to Ankara on the eve of the pending critical floor vote in the House. Just imagine Amb. Sensoy landing in Washington’s Dulles Airport right after the full House has passed the Genocide resolution.

 

More ominous is the threat against Turkey’s Jews made by Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babajan who was quoted by Today’s Zaman as saying: "We have told them [the ADL and other Jewish groups] that we cannot explain it to the Turkish public if a road accident happens. We have told them that we cannot keep the Jewish people out of this." Despite this alarming threat, seven of eight Jewish members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee voted last week in favor of the Armenian Genocide resolution, ignoring the pleas of both Israeli leaders and some American Jewish organizations.

 

Significantly, Turkish officials have not gone beyond a war of words after the passage of the Armenian Genocide resolution in committee, despite all of their threats. As expected, the Turks were simply bluffing. However, should Turkey take any drastic measures against the U.S., it would only reinforce the perception in the minds of most Americans that Turkey is not a reliable ally. Friends do not threaten each other. Furthermore, the threatened action against the Kurds in Northern Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the Armenian resolution.

 

In the final analysis, the passage of the Genocide resolution in the House Foreign Affairs Committee was not as significant as the fact that every member of the committee, regardless of whether they were for or against the resolution, openly acknowledged that the Armenian Genocide is a historical fact. This unanimous admission of the truth is the ultimate victory over Turkish denialism. Once again, the Turkish regime, through its obsessive and paranoid lobbying against this symbolic resolution, has made the Armenian Genocide a major international issue that was covered by most newspapers and TV programs around the world in recent days.

 

In order to counter the intense pressure on members of Congress by the denialist camp, all supporters of the Armenian Genocide resolution are urged to call their congressional representatives to ensure that they are not swayed by vain threats and falsehoods. Please call the Capital switchboard at 1-202-225-3121 and ask to be connected to your representative. Urge him or her to vote yes on the resolution when it comes to a vote on the House floor.

 

---------------------

 

 

or go to

 

http://www.anca.org/

 

 

 

 

 

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Schiff Stands Firm.

 

 

On Wednesday Rep. Adam Schiff said:

 

 

"We have a very tough fight because we have the Turkish lobby and all the money it has spent to persuade members against this resolution"

 

 

"We tried to advance this resolution before the war in Iraq, before Afghanistan and before 9/11 and we were told it was not the right time," ... "This is obviously a very inconvenient truth. But as Martin Luther King Jr. said, `It is never the wrong time to do the right thing."'

 

 

"How can we take effective action against the genocide in Darfur if we lack the will to condemn genocide whenever and wherever it occurs?"

 

 

 

"We want to win,"... "We always knew this was going to be tough."

 

 

 

"While a few members have withdrawn their support for the resolution, the truth is on our side, and support for the resolution remains high,"..."As with almost all legislation in Congress, there are many members who are not listed as co-sponsors of the resolution but support the measure."

Edited October 18, 2007 by Aratta-Kingdom

[Anoushik]

Unfortunately, in the long term misinformation on a large scale can have poor repercussions.

You're right. It's a bit naive on my part to think that when reporters claim to report objectively and cite facts it's anything but. Just out of curiosity I searched Bill O'Reilly's stance on the resolution. This is what I came up with. His blog.

 

Prior to World War I, Turkey was a model multiethnic and multireligious empire...

LIES, LIES, LIES.

[AK-47]

ANCA message:

 

They’ve taken their best shot. And we’re still standing strong.

 

Over the past 48 hours, Turkey’s lobbyists hit us with a round of manufactured media hype against the Armenian Genocide Resolution (H.Res.106).

 

With millions of foreign dollars funneled into the American political system, they paid for a desperate wave of “shock and awe” – intended to intimidate our supporters and deter us – as if they ever could – from our noble cause of putting America back on the right side of this issue.

 

But they won’t win. And we won’t back down.

 

We have the truth on our side, and your personal devotion to a just cause.

 

And Turkey’s threats are beginning to backfire.

 

Take a look at just a few examples:

 

Congressman Sires criticized them for putting

“a Turkish sword” over his head.

 

Congressman Crowley said “shame” on Turkey for threatening to destabilize our forces in Iraq.

 

Congressman Rohrabacher doubted Turkey’s standing as an ally in light of its threats to “cut off” American military troops.

 

Congressman Lantos criticized Turkey for trying to “intimidate” the U.S. from recognizing this human rights issue.

 

And just today, Senator Menendez, sharply attacked “the Turkish government's attempts to intervene in the business of the U.S. Congress with over-the-top threats.”

 

Americans know better.

 

We know that we advance our nation’s interests when we stand up for our values.

 

We know that a foreign nation should never be allowed to exercise a veto over where America stands on human rights issues.

 

We know, as Americans, that we should never – and must never – outsource our foreign policy, our basic morality, to another country. Turkey, a nation that sets records for jailing and killing journalists, simply cannot be allowed to export its hateful Article 301 “gag-rule” to the United States Congress.

 

[Anoushik]

Hmm...

 

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9987685

[Anoushik]

By Samantha Power

 

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1672790,00.html

[nairi]

I like your optimism.

Unfortunately, in the long term misinformation on a large scale can have poor repercussions. How many times this week did we hear phrases like "Armenians say...", "Genocide allegations...", "Armenian lobby...", "Turkey, a key ally..." ? If the general public absorbs the tone of the media reports, and believes Bush when he says "It's a matter for historians..." then the denialist stance also get its platform. I wonder if in the years to come we will be able to truly evaluate whether the general impact was positive or negative.

 

In a month from now, most people will have forgotten about today's news and the rest will wonder whether it was the Albanian or the Abkhazian Genocide.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Bipartisan Armenian Genocide Resolution will Ensure United States Remains a Moral Leader Around the World

 

 

 

 

WASHINGTON--Today, U.S. Reps. Adam Schiff (D-CA) and George Radanovich (R-CA), lead sponsors of the Armenian Genocide Resolution; Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ) and Joe Knollenberg (R-MI), co-chairmen of the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues; and Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Ed Royce (R-CA), senior members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs highlighted the importance of recognizing the murder of a million and a half Armenians between 1915-1923 as genocide.

The six lawmakers, all Members of the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues, issued the following statement today:

“Today, Congress rightly honored the Dalai Lama with the Congressional Gold Medal at a ceremony in the Capitol, despite the ardent objections of the Chinese government.

“In this demonstration of moral virtue, Congress today stood up for what is right and would not be intimidated by threats from another nation. In awarding the Dalai Lama the highest civilian honor Congress can bestow, Congress showed its commitment to promoting peace around the world. We will not let another country impede our efforts to speak out against inhumanity.

“As we take this principled moral stand in defiance of the Chinese government, we must similarly be willing to speak out on the Armenian Genocide. If we as a nation are to be a moral leader around the world we must have the courage to recognize genocide whenever and wherever it occurs.”

The Armenian Genocide has been recognized by more than 20 nations including Canada, Italy, Sweden, France, Argentina and Russia. This resolution is consistent with the record of the U.S. House of Representatives in speaking out against genocides 's past and present. The House has passed resolutions on the Holocaust and the genocides in Cambodia, Darfur, Ukraine and Bosnia.

 

EDITOR'S NOTE: Visit the Action Alert portion of www.asbarez.com and take action to ensure the passage of the resolution and thank these and other representatives whose decisive leadership and support has guided this process.

 

 

 

[MosJan]

Ankara Denies Mass Arrests Of Armenians

By Emil Danielyan

 

The Turkish government has denied reports that scores of Armenian nationals living in Turkey have been arrested since the latest advance of an Armenian genocide resolution in the U.S. Congress, official Yerevan said on Thursday.

 

An Irish newspaper reported last week that about 100 Armenians were rounded up by the Turkish police in recent days and are facing deportation to Armenia. The paper suggested that the Turkish authorities ordered the crackdown in retaliation for the anticipated adoption by the U.S. House of Representatives of a resolution recognizing as genocide the 1915 massacres of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.

 

“I have unofficial information confirming the fact of such arrests,” Karen Mirzoyan, Armenia’s permanent representative to the Istanbul headquarters of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation organization, said on Monday.

 

The reports led Armenia’s Foreign Ministry to ask for an official clarification from Ankara. In a statement, the ministry said it has been told by the Turkish authorities that 542 foreigners have been arrested of late for breaking Turkish immigration rules and that only one of them is an Armenians citizen.

 

The Turkish government claims that at least 50,000 Armenians live and work in Turkey. Many in Armenia dismiss the figure as grossly inflated.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

Haaretz.com

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/914600.html

 

Courage and history http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gifhttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif

Nations are measured by their history. But we often forget that they are also measured by the way they confront their history. This can be a difficult task, requiring courage, vision and commitment to a different future. It demands more honesty and less pride. It makes a distinction between dignity and shame - and knows how to enhance the former and address the latter. And it requires the involvement of both the political leadership, on the one hand, and the individual citizen, on the other.

 

Which brings us to the following question: What can we learn from the German response to the Holocaust that might help Turkey alter its attitude toward the Armenian genocide? A loaded question? Obviously. An unfair one? Maybe. But is it a useful one? Definitely, and not only for the Turks. If there is one lesson we must have picked up on during the 20th century, it is that we are all "built" for genocide. There is no culture, polity, community that is immune from this. There are of course many ways of carrying out genocide. You can starve your victims, parch them, march them into the desert, shoot them, rape them, gas them, burn them, bomb them, hack them to pieces. You do not need to be an industrial powerhouse to do it quickly, efficiently. And by most standards, there is at least one genocide taking place right now, in East Africa.

 

 

Mentioning Turkey in the same sentence as the Holocaust is anathema to all Turks - and they are right because it is a horrific stigma to bear. "Placing the Turks in the same category as Nazis is intolerable to us," one Turkish official was quoted as saying in The Economist on October 4. But that is missing the point. This is not about comparative genocide - an exercise that invariably devolves into some form of bean counting. But when a state refuses to acknowledge history, it affects the psyche of the nation, perpetuating stasis, first on a moral level and then in every other aspect of life.

 

When World War II came to an end in Europe, in May 1945, the crimes of Germany were exposed before the world. The horror was such that for a while there were American officials who sought to reduce Germany to an agrarian society so that it could never again perpetrate such criminal aggression.

 

Things turned out differently, in great part because of Cold War exigencies. But at least in West Germany, a concerted effort was made by its political leadership - and first and foremost by Konrad Adenauer, the country's first chancellor - to restore Germany to the community of nations, foremost through the acknowledgment of the past. Not only did Germany accept responsibility, but it actively sought to preserve that diabolical chapter in its history - in the memory of the state and of every single German citizen.

 

It can be argued that the Germans were forced into accepting responsibility. They were occupied, crushed, starving, shocked and shamed. All true. But they did take responsibility, with the understanding that they could not escape history and that if they could muster the courage, they could use that experience to build a better future.

 

Such a tack requires leadership. And the epitome of Adenauer's leadership came with the reconciliation between West Germany and Israel, which began formally in 1952, with the signing of the reparations agreement. This also required a great deal of courage and leadership on the part of David Ben-Gurion, who pushed that accord through in the face of great opposition at home. It did not mean forgiveness by any means. But it was the start of reconciliation, and that is what genuine leaders owe to the future generations of their people.

 

Turkey's circumstances are different from those of Germany, and so is its historical development. But finding excuses is always easier than doing what is right. Yes, Turkey has simultaneously struggled with at least three massive challenges since its establishment in 1923, the roots of which dated back to the great reforms started in 1839: building a nation-state; modernization; and democratization. By the time Germany perpetrated the Holocaust, it had gone through all these stages, with greater or lesser success. Indeed, apologists are always quick to point out that "this is not a good time" for Turkey to address the Armenian issue. The bottom line is that it is never a good time: There is always some crisis brewing, some hyper-sensitive general, politician or group, too many other things going on. That is the nature of the mix that makes Turkey what it is.

 

However, all too often the Turkish people are underestimated. This is more frequently done by its own leaders than by foreigners. When Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan declares that "there was no Armenian genocide," that is precisely what he is doing: underestimating his people, and their ability to look forward and acknowledge mistakes. For the leader of a party whose popularity stems from the desire of many Turks to remove the shackles of a traditionally paternalistic state - this is no way to usher in change. History is not solely the domain of historians, as Erdogan and others would have us believe. Every Turk has a role in the making of Turkish history, and a stake in the making of Turkey's future. Recognizing past wrongs and calling them by name is difficult, and may even seem insurmountable, but the Turks must find the courage to try to do so.

 

Michalis Firillas is on the editorial staff of Haaretz.

[Aratta-Kingdom]

If this is true, why don't they take the first step...? If they are sincere, why don't they abolish Article 301? Why the hell do they need to talk with the armenians when they don't even talk, or better to say-they silence their own citizens who dare to say the word 'genocide'? How many times Armenia has offered to start the talks without preconditions? How many times the turks have declared that there will be no talks with the Armenians unless the Karbakh issue is solved(in favour of Azerbaijan, of course).

 

TARC has failed because the turks have played dirty. They only wanted to kill time and fool the western powers. The hisotry repeats itself... . The International Association of Genocide Scholars has already declared that the turks must be sincere and must not try to negotiate the truth. If the turks have chosen to go agains the wheel of time, it's their problem. The pain they have caused is deeper and required much more than an empty talk heal it. This issue will never go away unless the turks stop the cultural genocie, stop threatening the armenians, and apologize & pay for what they did.

 

...The truth simply cannot be negotiated!

 

Reuters reports:

 

"While we search for ways to address this painful issue and develop our relations with Armenia, we cannot live in the past. Our sincere offer for dialogue and reconciliation is on the table," Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan wrote in an opinion piece published in Friday's Wall Street Journal, European edition.

[Em]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=15436564 (audio commentary)

 

L.A. Armenians Push for Genocide Resolution

by Mandalit del Barco

 

 

Enlarge Karl Walter

In 2006, Armenian activists protested outside the Turkish Consulate in Los Angeles to mark the 91st anniversary of the estimated 1.5 million Armenians killed in 1915. Getty Images

 

 

Morning Edition, October 19, 2007 · Support has faded for a measure that would officially recognize as genocide the mass killings of Armenians in 1915. The resolution passed a contentious House committee vote, but it has stalled in the face of criticism that it would harm U.S. relations with Turkey.

 

The resolution was backed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D), who represents California's 8th District, an area with a sizeable Armenian-American population. This week, Pelosi has admitted that she is reconsidering her pledge to force a vote on the measure in Congress.

 

In Glendale, Calif., a Los Angeles suburb that is home to the nation's largest Armenian population, reaction to the resolution being tabled has been harsh.

 

'They Were Massacred'

 

Armenians make up about 40 percent of Glendale's population. Their music, food and culture give the community a distinct flavor. At one restaurant called Raffi's, Alice Milkorian discussed the events that have sparked the resolution.

 

"My mother's parents were lost in the genocide," Milkorian said. "They were massacred."

 

Milkorian, who is nearly 80, was born on April 24, also known as Armenian Remembrance Day, the beginning of the killing by the Turkish Ottoman Empire that would eventually claim as many as 1.5 Armenian lives.

 

Like many Armenian-Americans, Milkorian says she looks forward to an official U.S. acknowledgement of that event. Political reluctance — even outright denials of the deaths — only makes Armenians more passionate about the issue, Milkorian says.

 

"We Armenians," Milkorian said, "[have] hot blood. So we want our youth to know what happened in the past. It's very important for us."

 

"Every single Armenian family has a story, a terrible story, as to what happened," said Glendale's mayor, Ara Najarian. He says he gets choked up whenever he recalls his own family's stories.

 

"My grandfather on my dad's side relayed to me how he saw his father beheaded in front of his own eyes," Najarian said. "And on my mother's side, I heard the story of how my great-grandmother, at that time, threw herself into the river to commit suicide rather than to be raped and abused and eventually executed by the Turkish soldiers."

 

Push for Recognition will Continue

 

Ten years ago, the state of California officially recognized the Armenian genocide. Najarian says he still hopes politicians in Washington follow suit.

 

"It certainly is not going to bring back loved ones from four generations ago," Najarian said, "but it's just a recognition of the historical truth."

 

Najarian and others point out that world leaders have acknowledged the events of 1915. Even Adolph Hitler allegedly asked, "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" More than 20 nations have officially condemned the atrocities.

 

And six years ago, President Bush referred to the "terrible events" in a presidential message. But this week, Bush urged Congress not to risk antagonizing Turkey's military support for U.S. missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. And that has Glendale's Armenian community upset.

 

"I'm appalled, I'm surprised, and in many ways I'm disgusted," said Larry Zarian, who hosts a cable TV show in Glendale. "Why are we playing politics with this?"

 

Zarian, who was the city's first Armenian mayor, says Bush is backing away from an election promise to officially condemn what happened to the Armenians.

 

"This is about humanity and about one and a half million people that perished 92 years ago. Let's do the right thing. Let's put this behind us," Zarian said. "Turkey needs us more than we need them. Turkey is going to be our ally. Turkey cannot do without the United States of America. Why are we so worried?"

 

Zarian and others in Glendale say that even if the current resolution dies in Washington, they'll continue their crusade to put the Armenian genocide on record.

 

 

[Anonymouse]

Stop bashing your head against the wall. But since you have a habit of repeating yourself, then you should be getting the same answer you got before.

"QUOTE(Anonymouse @ Oct 12 2007, 05:47 PM) So what is the point of this genocide bill?

To piss off the turks and leave president a-bush without turkey on thanksgiving day. Isn't that enough?

All the jokes aside...

 

1. Genocide is a crime against mankind. A bill like this will force all the other bloody bastards to think twice before committing similar crimes.

 

There is nothing in history, or any evidence in the present that indicates that somehow an awareness of genocides in the past, is going to prevent others from occurring. The whole 'we must make sure people know so it won't happen again' argument is fallacious.

 

2. A bill like this will make the filthy revisionists to think twise before insulting the memory of the genocide victims.

 

So this is about revisionists? Would you also support anti-free speech laws like they have in France, which penalize those who question the genocide or the sacred holocaust? They have such laws in Turkey for the opposite effect. Are we no better than them?

 

3. A bill like this will create legal grounds for the genocide survivors and their children to seek justice.

 

What do you mean by seeking 'justice'? Don't pussyfoot around and beat around the bush. Say what you mean. Do you perchance mean reparations? Do you perchance mean 'getting lands back'? If those are the things you mean, you are outwitting yourself.

 

4. A bill like this will put an to cultural genocide.

 

What?

 

5. A bill like this will force the turks to face the truth and be less aggressive with the armenians. "

 

No amount of 'bills' passing will get the Turk to 'face the truth'. This isn't like Nazi Germany. These are two different situations which is why the reasoning won't apply here.

 

So, to conclude, when I look at this bill, it serves no purpose other than a general unambiguous reference 'oh yea, it was a genocide.' Now, if that is all that matters, then good for the bill, but from what you divulged and expanded upon, it seems you want this bill or expect it to do more magic than it can. It cannot.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Anonymouse

[nairi]

So this is about revisionists? Would you also support anti-free speech laws like they have in France, which penalize those who question the genocide or the sacred holocaust? They have such laws in Turkey for the opposite effect. Are we no better than them?

 

It shouldn't be about revisionism. History is reconsidered and revised all the time as new facts or points of views emerge. Nobody has an issue with that. It's about negationism: the deliberate denial of a historic event intended to offend and insult the victims or the descendants thereof. Compare it to "hate speech" and the laws against that.

 

No amount of 'bills' passing will get the Turk to 'face the truth'. This isn't like Nazi Germany. These are two different situations which is why the reasoning won't apply here.

 

So, to conclude, when I look at this bill, it serves no purpose other than a general unambiguous reference 'oh yea, it was a genocide.' Now, if that is all that matters, then good for the bill, but from what you divulged and expanded upon, it seems you want this bill or expect it to do more magic than it can. It cannot.

 

If the bill is only about recognition of the "tragic events of 1915" as genocide, then it indeed serves no other purpose than perhaps bullying Turkey a little.

 

If the bill, however, demands of the American government to actively urge Turkey to come to terms with its history, it could have some effect.