Armenian Genocide Bill 2007

[Anonymouse]

Anonymouse,

 

did you have a lonely childhood, why do you cry for attention?

 

He just wants to be loved. I don't think its working

 

Notice how you folks are easily perturbed by the slightest disagreements and instead of actually addressing the points, it's easier to pretend they don't exist. This will be one of the few times where I will actually agree with Ara Baliozian in his assessment of Armenians, that they don't like any inward criticisms and introspection from time to time (which is healthy and should be a part of any people).

 

If we as Armenians have truly become this rigid with regard to any issue relating to our history and goals, that we cannot even entertain discussing unpopular viewpoints within our own ranks, then we are truly doomed.

[DominO123]

Notice how you folks are easily perturbed by the slightest disagreements and instead of actually addressing the points, it's easier to pretend they don't exist. This will be one of the few times where I will actually agree with Ara Baliozian in his assessment of Armenians, that they don't like any inward criticisms and introspection from time to time (which is healthy and should be a part of any people).

 

If we as Armenians have truly become this rigid with regard to any issue relating to our history and goals, that we cannot even entertain discussing unpopular viewpoints within our own ranks, then we are truly doomed.

 

Critic only for the pleasure of contradicting others should be differenciated from an educated criticism. Lets say that I am used to your, he said A, lets oppose A and say B. This is not limited to Armenian history, it is wide spread in your contributions when exchanging with others.

 

[Anonymouse]

An interesting piece from the economist.

 

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/disp...tory_id=9987685

[Anonymouse]

Critic only for the pleasure of contradicting others should be differenciated from an educated criticism. Lets say that I am used to your, he said A, lets oppose A and say B. This is not limited to Armenian history, it is wide spread in your contributions when exchanging with others.

 

I never knew you were psychic.

 

Regardless of what you think, my positions on most things are not in accord with many people. So thereby, you conclude I must be doing it because I get a kick out of it, since I don't really believe what I argue? And what pleasure do I possibly derive from this? By taking time out of my busy schedule which doesn't allow me to post much on any forum these days, to come here, merely to fan flames? If I didn't sincerely believe in what I argued, I wouldn't bother. Since the issue is about a bill currently pending, and it caught my interest, I thought I'd chime in with my two cents. If you don't like it, that's your business, but don't assume (assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me").

 

 

[DominO123]

I never knew you were psychic.

 

Regardless of what you think, my positions on most things are not in accord with many people. So thereby, you conclude I must be doing it because I get a kick out of it, since I don't really believe what I argue? And what pleasure do I possibly derive from this? By taking time out of my busy schedule which doesn't allow me to post much on any forum these days, to come here, merely to fan flames? If I didn't sincerely believe in what I argued, I wouldn't bother. Since the issue is about a bill currently pending, and it caught my interest, I thought I'd chime in with my two cents. If you don't like it, that's your business, but don't assume (assume makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me").

 

No, nothing psychic there, only years of observation and deduction. I have witnessed you opposing on countless numbers of occasion thesis, to then support them when others were at occasion opposing them. But you sure know that I have no interest in debating with you.

 

[Anonymouse]

No, nothing psychic there, only years of observation and deduction. I have witnessed you opposing on countless numbers of occasion thesis, to then support them when others were at occasion opposing them. But you sure know that I have no interest in debating with you.

You are entitled to your opinion, however flawed. But it is conjecture nonetheless. I agree with those when it suits my own paradigm, and disagree when it doesn't. To look back in hindsight and arbitrarily state that it must have been this or that, doesn't make it so, even though it's appealed to you to look at it under that light.

[MosJan]

annamus heriqa !!!

[Z'areh]

Besides the above mentioned Economist article interesting articles about the Armenain genocide are gushing out of international newspapers east,west,north and south of the globe. In this day and age, with easy access to the world press thanks to the internet, let's spend the fraction of our energy towards writing to newspapers from Singapur to London to Washington.

 

These are "hot" days for the topic of the Armenian genocide, let's use it to our adventage.

 

...or come here and try to convince the other Armenian is wrong.

 

We could use this forum to discuss ideas, back and forth, how to confront a denialist editorial or shut an insensitive idiot up who writes Turkish-ass licking articles.

[Error 404]

You are entitled to your opinion, however flawed. But it is conjecture nonetheless. I agree with those when it suits my own paradigm, and disagree when it doesn't. To look back in hindsight and arbitrarily state that it must have been this or that, doesn't make it so, even though it's appealed to you to look at it under that light.

 

hey

 

I think it is time for you to stop provoking people in here and I mean stop posting your BS in this thread.

 

Capito?

[Arpa]

----------------------

 

Turkey will negociate with Bush: "I'll recognize the genocide and you will let me brush away

the Kurds in Irak"

Who coined the phrase “luck of the Irish”?

They may not have heard of the turds.

Look how all the smoke they are creating in Northern Iraq/ Kurdistan is being outsmoked by that in San Diego. Just as they smoked of entire nation under cover the smoke created during WWI.

Who knows what "smoke and mirrors" means; "Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians' illusions, where magicians use smoke and mirrors to accomplish illusions such as making objects disappear, when they really don't disappear at all. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception".

Those cowards!

They can only operate in smoky darkness!!

And by the time, in another 90 years the US Congress deliberates the Kurdish Genocide, it will be remanded to "historians".

Once again observe that people mentioned below seem to be Christians.

THREAT OF WAR LOOMS OVER KURDISH VILLAGE

Khaleej Times

Oct 24 2007

United Arab Emirates

ENISHKE, Iraq - Georgis Hamon Shlemo feels he is being stalked by

fate. The Christian fled Baghdad to escape the daily violence and

settled down to a new life in his ancestors' village of Enishke in

Iraq's Kurdish region. But now war has caught up with him again.

 

In the dead of night, six Turkish artillery shells slammed into the

sleeping village just 20 kilometres (12 miles) from the border.

 

Nobody was hurt and the damage was minimal, but the craters and

scorched vegetation are clear for all to see.

 

For Shlemo and the 450 inhabitants of this tiny Christian hamlet 250

kilometres (150 miles) north of Arbil, the mountains which surround

them and which had previously seemed so secure now feel considerably

less safe.

 

Somewhere in the undergrowth of the mountainside are concealed the

fighters of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), the separatist group

branded terrorists by Turkey which wants to destroy them.

 

"We don't know what to do any more. In Baghdad I was threatened

because I was a Christian. And here I find more violence," sighs

Shlemo as he clutches a set of rosary beads.

 

The Kurds of northern Iraq have had a great deal of autonomy for

more than 15 years, and are torn between preserving this security

and prosperity and sympathy with the Turkish Kurd rebels, many of

whom have sought refuge close by.

 

"We have never seen the PKK fighters. They never come here," says Demke

Yalda, the 56-year-old mayor of the village where the Assyrio-Chaldean

population still speaks the Aramaic language of Jesus Christ.

 

Western-dressed, his face sporting a bushy white moustache, he does

not want his little community to fall victim to the bloody conflict

between the PKK and Turkey which has raged for almost 25 years.

 

"Luckily we have not suffered any casualties. Only the windows of

several houses were smashed," explains Yalda, discussing the first

Turkish bombardment of their village in front of an attentive audience

of locals.

 

"But the people now have fear in their hearts, especially the women

and children."

 

The anxiety of residents has grown with the increasing threat of an

incursion by Turkish soldiers, after a series of deadly raids by the

PKK into southern Turkey close to the border with Iraq.

 

"They do not have the right to come onto our land. Our region is

stable. Perhaps this is what holds back the Turkish government,"

suggests the mayor of Enishke where most voters are farmers.

 

"The Turks? We don't want them under any pretext," says Matti Esho,

56, a grocer.

 

"It is a dictatorship. In the past they have massacred Armenians,

Assyrians and Kurds. They are criminals."

 

For Shlemo and his neighbours, fleeing in the face of the increasing

tension is not an option.

 

"I will not leave for any reason. It is my village and it was the

village of my ancestors. I am living in the heart of my community,"

he says.

 

"Here we can practise our religion without any problems. A priest comes

each Sunday and takes mass and we live in peace -- Kurds and Arabs."

 

In his little shop, Esho arranges fruit, cheese, cans of beer and

bottles of whisky. He fears for the future of his business.

 

"Since the start of these problems, the people from the nearby towns

do not come to breathe the fresh mountain air. Economically we are

going to collapse," he says.

 

In the street outside his stall, little girls in blue skirts, white

blouses and satchels on their backs are heading for school.

 

But for the grocer of Enishke, this tranquil image of childhood

happiness masks a sense of foreboding.

 

"The Turks are going to come. I'm sure of that," are his closing words.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Arpa

[_femme333_]

U.S. sponsors postpone push for Armenian genocide bill 1 hour, 7 minutes ago

 

 

 

Backers of a resolution to formally name the 1915 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turks a genocide said on Thursday they would postpone efforts to bring it to a vote in the U.S. House of Representatives.

 

The sponsors conveyed their decision in a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, after support for the controversial resolution support faltered in the face of vehement protests from NATO ally Turkey.

 

But the four chief co-sponsors who wrote the letter did not totally give up on the proposal, which Armenian-Americans have sought to pass in the House for years but is strongly opposed by the Bush administration.

 

The sponsors asked Pelosi not to schedule a vote "at this time," but said they would continue to work for "consideration sometime later this year, or in 2008."

 

The resolution passed the House Foreign Affairs Committee on October 10 and seemed destined for speedy consideration by the whole House of Representatives.

 

Turkey recalled its ambassador in protest and warned of grave damage to U.S.-Turkish relations and a reduction in military cooperation, if the House passed it. Turkey provides key logistical support to U.S. troops in Iraq, with much of the cargo that is flown to the Americans going through a Turkish air base.

 

Turkey accepts that many Armenians were killed in World War One, but denies they were victims of a systematic genocide.

 

"We believe that a large majority of our colleagues want to support a resolution recognizing the genocide on the House floor and that they will do so, provided the timing is more favorable," said the letter to Pelosi, which her office released.

 

It was signed by four Democrats who were leading sponsors of the resolution -- Adam Schiff, Brad Sherman and Anna Eshoo of California, and Frank Pallone of New Jersey.

 

A Pelosi spokesman said she respected the judgment of the sponsors on the timing of the vote. She has long advocated passage of such a resolution.

 

 

[_femme333_]

Do you guys think that perhaps it would be a better idea if the vote was hold off for another month or two?

I'm thinking that the Turks are pretending to play the "diplomacy" game with the Kurds and the US right now in order to wait until the outcome of the resolution in mid-November.

 

I think they would love to start the incursion into northern Iraq right now....especially after the last murder of 9 or 12 Turkish soldiers, but they're also waiting to see what the outcome of the genocide resolution will be in mid-Novermber. I think that they will fight the Kurdish "rebels" in either way, but they're trying to hold off any major attacks until mid-November to see what happens. They worry that if they do start anything in northern Iraq right now, then the US Congress will intentionally pass the resolution. They're pretending to resolve the issue through diplomacy for now, but I bet $100 that they will go into northern iraq the next day the bill either passes or it doesn't.

 

I think it would be a good idea to put off this issue for another month, perhaps end of December if the Congress is in session at that time), that way the Kurds will retaliate to whatever the Turks are doing on the border today and perhaps they might even kill another 9 soldiers before end of December to piss off the Turks even more. I have a feeling that this time the resolution won't pass if it's presented on November 13th, because of all these (meaningless) threats. Perhaps in the next few months the Kurds might even do something so big that the Turks will have no choice but to go into Iraq as a retaliation and that way when the Armenian genocide is debated in Congress, the is more chance for it to be recognized as a diplomatic retaliation towards the Turks for their incursion into Northern Iraq. The above article does state that the bill could be debated on either end of this year or early 2008.

 

I think that this time we should really think smart about how to approach this issue and when to put forth the resolution to Congress because for once the cards (in a way though) is in our hands and we need to really calculate what the best steps would be for us. No one would like to see this issue fail just because we were not careful enough about the timing. We finally had a victory at the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and this should be continued all the way to the end by calculated moves even if it might drag on a little bit more due to the circumstances that are out of our control. The Turkish and Kurdish issue of today should be used by us carefully for our own benefit and I really believe that we can succeed this time if our timing is right. We should learn how to gain on the expense of our enemies (or even friends)and the Turkish-Kurdish conflict is a great opportunity for us to do so. Our inpatience might not be so beneficial for us in this case. Putting this issue on hold for two months won't hurt us at all. As I understand, the Turks were planning to go into Iraq few weeks ago after the parliament approved it, but suddenly we hear that they will use all the diplomacy they can use before any attemp to go in. Turks won't wait forever until they actually go into northern iraq, so in the next two months thing would be much clearer and Turkey might not even wait that long and will start the real fighting before that. Then we could finally get our recognition.

Edited October 26, 2007 by _femme333_

[_femme333_]

You can find the above article on Yahoo news.

[Error 404]

femme333 I completly agree with you.

 

I think pushing the vote back for a month and two is for our benefit. Turkey is playing diplomatic games for sure and who knows maybe Turkey's nerves will give up and they will start Iraqi invasion before the vote.

[Z'areh]

femme333 I completly agree with you.

 

I think pushing the vote back for a month and two is for our benefit. Turkey is playing diplomatic games for sure and who knows maybe Turkey's nerves will give up and they will start Iraqi invasion before the vote.

 

If I,m not mistaken they can postpone it till November 2008, I read somewhere.

 

I agree about the postponment, now there is a lot of negative attacks on the pro-Armenian lawmakers, it is too hot these days, let things simmer down, (or explode if TUrkey invades Iraq) then we might be able to bring back all those who had a second thought. Remember the Bush and the puss around him will be more irrelevent come October, November 2008.

 

In the mean time let the articles flow worldwide, I don't think this is a forgotten genocide anymore.

[_femme333_]

femme333 I completly agree with you.

 

I think pushing the vote back for a month and two is for our benefit. Turkey is playing diplomatic games for sure and who knows maybe Turkey's nerves will give up and they will start Iraqi invasion before the vote.

 

 

In that case how can we make sure that the vote gets pushed back for another month or two? I really hope it does, because I would hate to see it not get passed just because of the timing. What can we do to have it pushed back? Perhaps call ANCA and urge them to push it back for few months. I really hope they understand all this and consider messing with Turkey this way.

 

Question...if let's say it doesn't get passed on November 13, does that mean that we have to go through the Foreign Committee again in order to introduce it to Congress once more?

[Error 404]

If it doesn't pass then I guess the new one will have to go through the foreign affairs comitee again since it is going to be a "new" resolution. Just a guess...

[_femme333_]

If it doesn't pass then I guess the new one will have to go through the foreign affairs comitee again since it is going to be a "new" resolution. Just a guess...

 

 

Well that's crazy! We should really stop it from being introduced to Congress this November. I would hate to know that it has to go through the Foreign Committe all over again and it might not even be recognized the second time if Turkey succeeds in its attempt to "buy" politicians.

[_femme333_]

I just read the article one more time, but I don't understand whether or not they actually postponed it? All the names mentioned in the bottom are the supporters of the Armenian issues and looks like they all agree to postpone it, which I think is because they have similar thoughts as well. I didn't understand if it is postponed or our supporters are asking Pelosi to postpone it? I really hope that those supporters hope that this will be helpful to the issue.

 

 

[Error 404]

It is just too bad that an issue like Genocide is beeing used by politicians as a political card in a political poker game. They can hold it in their hands or "play" whenever the time is right.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/washingt....html?ref=world

[_femme333_]

I find this sentence funny "But supporters of the measure were not prepared for the vehement opposition of two powerful governments — Turkey," I guess the supporters thought that Turkey will celebrate after it's passed on our favor. These reporters are so dumb. I mean who the hell in their right mind would write such a stupid statement as if the Turks were going to be happy about it.

 

[Lev7]

So, I guess the bill will not be brought to a House vote

[_femme333_]

So, I guess the bill will not be brought to a House vote

 

Are you referring to the article I posted? That's what I was confused about. It seemed that way, but I didn't understand if Pelosi agreed to it or not, since they only sent her a letter. If it is not going to be brought up this November then much better for us.

[Lev7]

ARMENIAN GENOCIDE RESOLUTION SPONSORS ANNOUNCE REVISED TIMETABLE FOR HOUSE CONSIDERATION OF H.RES.106

 

Schiff, Pallone, Sherman and Eshoo Send Letter to Speaker Pelosi Citing Continued Efforts to Pass Resolution “Later this Year or in 2008”

WASHINGTON, DC – The four leading Democratic sponsors of the Armenian Genocide Resolution (H.Res.106) have called on Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to adopt a revised schedule for the consideration of this human rights legislation by the House of Representatives, reported the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA).

 

In a letter sent today to Speaker Pelosi, lead author Adam Schiff (D-CA), Congressional Armenian Caucus Co-Chair Frank Pallone (D-NJ), and Representatives Brad Sherman (D-CA) and Anna Eshoo (D-CA) stressed that, in asking for this delay, “we believe that a large majority of our colleagues want to support a resolution recognizing the genocide on the House floor and that they will do so, provided the timing is more favorable.” The letter goes on to note that they will continue to work with Speaker Pelosi’s staff and the House Foreign Affairs Committee staff to bring up the resolution “sometime later this year or in 2008.”

 

“Trying to advance American interests by compromising our values is a fast-track to failure in foreign policy,” said ANCA Executive Director Aram Hamparian. “By enabling Turkey’s genocide denial, America undermines its own ability to be a positive influence in the Middle East and around the world.”

 

In a letter circulated today to every member of the House, Hamparian noted that, “In the days since the House Foreign Affairs Committee approved the Armenian Genocide resolution (H.Res.106), the initial cautious response by many Members of Congress to Turkey’s threats has already begun to give way to a more lasting impression of disappointment, even anger, that an ally is so brazenly threatening the security of our troops.” He added that, “we are confident that, as the confusion over these threats lifts, an even stronger bipartisan majority will stand up against Turkey’s intimidation and vote to adopt this human rights resolution on its merits.”

 

The letter also noted that Armenian Americans remain deeply appreciative of the leadership of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, chief authors Adam Schiff and George Radanovich (R-CA), Armenian Caucus Co-Chairmen Frank Pallone and Joe Knollenberg (R-MI), and leading advocates Brad Sherman, Ed Royce (R-CA), Anna Eshoo, and Thaddeus McCotter (R-MI), all of whom are working with their colleagues on a bipartisan basis to put America on the right side of this human rights issue.

 

The full text of the ANCA letter is provided below.

 

#####

 

 

TEXT OF ANCA LETTER TO MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

 

 

October 25, 2007

 

Dear Representative:

 

I am writing to share our thoughts about how the ongoing consideration by the House of H.Res.106, the Armenian Genocide Resolution, has brought greater clarity to this human rights issue.

 

In the days and weeks since the Foreign Affairs Committee approved H.Res.106, we have seen that the initial response of caution to Turkey's wave of threats has already begun to give way to a more lasting impression -- one of disappointment, even anger, that an ally is so brazenly threatening the security of our troops. As the confusion over these threats lifts, we are confident that an even stronger bipartisan majority will stand up against Turkey's intimidation and vote to adopt this human rights resolution on its merits.

 

Looking back on the contentious events of the past two weeks, three issues stand out:

 

1) Turkey has revealed itself to be an increasingly unreliable ally

 

Turkey displayed a truly remarkable willingness to disrupt U.S. military operations.

 

Sadly, Ankara's new readiness to place our strategic priorities at risk was only encouraged by its success, once again, in forcing the Administration's capitulation. As a result of our appeasement in responding to their blackmail, we can expect to see Turkey's leaders continue to employ similar threats in connection with the full range of issues on our bilateral agenda, among them Iraq, the Kurds, Israel, Syria, Cyprus, and Iran. Their behavior is particularly abhorrent in light of the challenges that we face today in Iraq.

 

This disturbing episode serves as a much needed wake-up call for our State Department and Pentagon to make preparations to limit our future reliance upon Turkey by exploring alternate ways to supply and support our regional operations.

 

2) The real danger is compromising American moral leadership

 

The true danger to U.S. interests and American troops comes not from Turkey’s threats, but rather from the long-term damage to our international standing when we publicly retreat from our core values under unwarranted pressure from a foreign government.

 

We cannot advance our interests by compromising our values. Agreeing to a Turkish government-imposed “gag-rule” on the Armenian Genocide sets a dangerous precedent, emboldening other nations to use similar threats against America. Such a response diminishes our moral standing, making it more difficult to move international public opinion toward greater acceptance of our values and increased cooperation with our nation’s foreign policy priorities. Rest assured that Turkey will concoct another “threat” to our security whenever an Armenian Genocide resolution is considered. We would expect no less from a country where one literally faces prosecution for even speaking about the Armenian Genocide.

 

3) The facts of the Armenian Genocide are not in dispute

 

The debate over the Armenian Genocide Resolution, particularly during the nearly three hours of consideration of this measure by the Foreign Affairs Committee, was characterized by a common acceptance of the Armenian Genocide. Even those who spoke most ardently against the measure – based on a fear of Turkey’s reaction – never denied this crime.

 

While we remain, of course, deeply troubled by the opposition to this measure - in the view that it is always the right time for America to stand up against genocide – we do, however, take a measure of satisfaction from this progress within Congress toward a proper and accurate understanding of the history of the Armenian Genocide.

 

Moving forward, we are hopeful that these considerations will help inform the ongoing discussion of H.Res.106 as we continue our efforts to secure its adoption by the 110th Congress. Armenian Americans remain deeply appreciative of the leadership of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, lead authors Adam Schiff and George Radanovich, Armenian Caucus Co-Chairmen Frank Pallone and Joe Knollenberg, and leading advocates Brad Sherman, Ed Royce, Anna Eshoo, and Thaddeus McCotter, all of whom are working with their colleagues to put America on the right side of this human rights issue.

 

Thank you for your consideration of our concerns. We would, of course, be pleased to meet with you to discuss this matter in greater detail.

 

Sincerely,

 

[signed]

Aram S. Hamparian

Executive Director

 

[_femme333_]

Great!