Chess Superpower

[GevorgP]

I posted this in Armenian Government Forum on Nov 14 2005, 02:16 AM URL: www.govforum.am which is down for several months

 

 

 

 

Developed countries are spending millions/billions to attract worldwide outstanding chess masters of different nationalities to play on behalf of their countries and in case of winning they get astronomical rewords from the state budgets and sponsors. I understand that nowadays Armenian State budget can not afford it. But we have rich Armenians who can support our Masters, in terms of ensuring proper living standards for their families, they deserve, and let them devote their time to chess.

 

 

We have generous Armenian; Mr. Kirk Kerkorian, who donated to Armenia more than $260 million USD. Does the donation make major difference in the Armenia’s image worldwide? The answer is no: the results are visible and appreciated only by Armenians and visitors (world doesn’t know much about it). World neither cares much about improved condition of Yerevan roads nor Republican square beautiful pavement.

 

 

But if a “minor” amount of the money above, let say $1 million USD would have been allocated as a prize/compensation for our chess Masters, in advance, at the 38-th World Team Chess Championship, our Masters could win at least the silver medal.

 

 

The controversial results with the USA and Cuba teams, may be interpreted as the chessmasters concession in sake of ensuring their families survival/living (I don’t blame… I say: “may be”).

 

 

World press recognizes that Armenia is one of the World’s Chess Superpowers, and we are very proud for it.

 

 

So if our billionaires will support the Masters a “little bit”(compared with their previous generous donations) they will win silver or gold medals next time, making major improvement in Armenia’s image worldwide. Lets recognize that $1 million USD compensation is nothing, compared with the “Chess Superpower” title. USA and other developed countries, for sure, will pay billions to get it, in our case one million is enough.

 

 

In addition, if our team wins three times the bronze medal, and we won China (with population 300 times exceeding ours). Therefore our chess school is one of the best in the world. This is why we should advertise our chess school “Know How”; our chess trainers are the best. We should open new chess classes at our schools and departments in Institutes, Universities to attract and teach foreign students & trainers. This is one of Armenia’s competitive advantages.

 

 

With best regards,

 

 

Gev12

[GevorgP]

Ձօն Հայաստանի

 

 

 

Հերոսների արյան գինն է մեր հողը

Այդ արյունից էլ անգին է մեր հողը

Կայքից վեր է, կյանքից վեր է մեր հողը

Նախնյաց նվեր եւ պատվեր է մեր հողը:

 

 

 

Հողն է ծնում հողն է պահում ազգերին,

Հողն է թաղում հող չպաշտող ցեղերին,

Հողը սուրբ է՝ եւ մատուռն է մեր ուխտի,

Հողը սուրբ է ու փարոսն է պանդուխտի:

 

 

 

Հողը սուրբ է, դա շիրիմն է մեր նախնյաց,

Հողն է պահում օրօրոցը հայ մանկաց,

Հողը զգոն սաղավարտ է պահապան,

Դրանից վեր չկա ոչ մի, ոչ մի բան:

[MosJan]

So if our billionaires will support the Masters a “little bit”

 

i have a question

are the awards the only gifts the Chess Championship gaves ????

to my knowledge grandmaster & World Chess Champion do get $$$$

 

The President's Letter

 

Moscow, 16 November 2006

 

Dear friends of chess,

 

On behalf of FIDE I am pleased to announce that both rounds of the Candidates Matches for the 2007 World Championship Tournament will take place in Elista, 26 May – 14 June 2007. The prize fund for each match of both rounds will be USD 40,000. I shall personally contribute 320,000 USD towards the total prize fund and a further USD 160,000 will be contributed by FIDE.

 

The 16 Grandmasters who will participate in the Candidates Matches are:

 

1. Levon Aronian (ARM)

2. Peter Leko (HUN)

3. Ruslan Ponomariov (UKR)

4. Boris Gelfand (ISR)

5. Etienne Bacrot (FRA)

6. Alexander Grischuk (RUS)

7. Judith Polgar (HUN)

8. Alexei Shirov (ESP)

9. Michael Adams (ENG)

10. Evgeny Bareev (RUS)

11. Vladimir Malakhov (RUS)

12. Gata Kamsky (USA)

13. Rustam Kasimjanov (UZB)

14. Sergei Rublevsky (RUS)

15. Mikhail Gurevich (TUR)

16. Magnus Carlsen (NOR)

 

Out of the above 16 Grandmasters, the top 4 will qualify for the 2007 World Chess Championship Tournament in Mexico, 11 September – 1 October, joining the defending World Champion Vladimir Kramnik (RUS) and GMs Vishy Anand (IND), Peter Svidler (RUS), Alexander Morozevich (RUS) who have already qualified from the previous World Championships.

 

We are all looking forward for another world class event to be held successfully in Elista.

 

Gens Una Sumus!

Kirsan Ilyumzhinov

FIDE President

[GevorgP]

Standings after round 12:

 

Grandmaster group A

 

 

1.V. Topalov, T. Radjabov - 8

 

3.L. Aronian - 7½

 

4.V. Anand, P. Svidler, V. Kramnik - 7

 

7.D. Navara - 6

 

8.S. Karjakin, Ponomariov - 5½

 

10.L. van Wely, S. Tiviakov - 5

 

12.A. Motylev - 4½

 

13.A. Shirov M. Carlsen - 4

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2007 by GevorgP

[Zartonk]

We're the Brazil of Chess.

[GevorgP]

We're the Brazil of Chess.

 

Zartonk,

 

Congratulations, Levon Aronian took first place.

 

RoA is more than Brazil in Chess!

 

 

Edited January 28, 2007 by GevorgP

[Takoush]

Zartonk,

 

Congratulations, Levon Aronian took first place.

 

RoA is more than Brazil in Chess!

Gevorg; congratulate to all of us; that is a great news!

[nairi]

Congratulations, Levon Aronian took first place.

 

With Topalov (BUL) and Radjabov (AZE). But as patriotic Armenians, we would like to leave especially the latter out.

[GevorgP]

ooops!

 

 

Edited January 28, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

 

With Topalov (BUL) and Radjabov (AZE). But as patriotic Armenians, we would like to leave especially the latter out.

 

Armenians again took the first place!

 

Corus: Grandmaster Group A

 

# Name Rating Score

1 L. Aronian 2744 8.5

2 V. Topalov 2783 8.5

3 T. Radjabov 2729 8.5

4 V. Kramnik 2766 8

5 V. Anand 2779 7.5

6 P. Svidler 2728 7

7 D. Navara 2719 6.5

8 S. Karjakin 2678 6.5

9 R. Ponomariov 2723 6

10 L. van Wely 2683 5

11 S. Tiviakov 2682 5

12 A. Motylev 2647 5

13 A. Shirov 2715 4.5

14 M. Carlsen 2690 4.5

 

Armenians you leave no room for pluralism and democracy; the Turks, should also become Champions, because all the nations are equal.

 

Can't you wait for your turn?

 

These are official data, would you agree with that Nairi? Aronian didn't lose any game in this tournament as opposed to the two, and he, in addition, won Radjabov.

 

Edited January 28, 2007 by GevorgP

[Zartonk]

Zartonk,

 

Congratulations, Levon Aronian took first place.

 

RoA is more than Brazil in Chess!

 

Yes! Shnorhavoranqner! We ARE chess!

[skhara]

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3632

 

There is a video on this site, Aronian annalyses his game against Sergey Karjakin.

[GevorgP]

Congratulations!

 

Aronian - 2

Kramnik - 1

 

4-th game is under way now. Aronian plays with white.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Aronian won 4-th game too.

 

Aronian - 3

Kramnik - 1

 

 

 

The last two games will take place tomorrow in Yerevan.

 

 

You know, Kramnik is current World Chess Champion.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2007 by GevorgP

[Shahan Araradian]

Aronian won 4-th game too.

 

Aronian - 3

Kramnik - 1

 

 

 

The last two games will take place tomorrow in Yerevan.

You know, Kramnik is current World Chess Champion.

I'm surprised that some of the world still finds Chess to be an intellectually challenging game (or at least one considered as a test of intelligence) when a sufficiently powerful computer today can beat ANY human, with the problem of playing chess optimally having been reduced to a brute-force/heuristic search algorithm that can be executed on a few cheap microprocessors. (It's like being in the 1940s, when the first powerful computers were being built, and having humans compete at who can add numbers the fastest; why do that when a machine can add two numbers hundreds of times a second in the 1940s -- and of course today, billions and even hundreds of trillions of times a second?)

 

The REAL intellectual challenge of our time is creating generally intelligent machines -- i.e. a multi-disciplinary endeavor of computer science, mathematics, cognitive science, and software engineering. And the REAL test of intelligence is not a narrow problem (such as chess) that a narrow Artificial Intelligence can be programmed to play and win even the bet of humans. The REAL test of intelligence involves the ability of an agent to achieve diverse goals in diverse environments (not a single goal -- e.g. check mate -- in a narrow environment -- e.g. chess).

Edited May 5, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[Zartonk]

Shahan: HF's minister of AI

[DominO123]

I'm surprised that some of the world still finds Chess to be an intellectually challenging game (or at least one considered as a test of intelligence) when a sufficiently powerful computer today can beat ANY human, with the problem of playing chess optimally having been reduced to a brute-force/heuristic search algorithm that can be executed on a few cheap microprocessors. (It's like being in the 1940s, when the first powerful computers were being built, and having humans compete at who can add numbers the fastest; why do that when a machine can add two numbers hundreds of times a second in the 1940s -- and of course today, billions and even hundreds of trillions of times a second?)

 

The REAL intellectual challenge of our time is creating generally intelligent machines -- i.e. a multi-disciplinary endeavor of computer science, mathematics, cognitive science, and software engineering. And the REAL test of intelligence is not a narrow problem (such as chess) that a narrow Artificial Intelligence can be programmed to play and win even the bet of humans. The REAL test of intelligence involves the ability of an agent to achieve diverse goals in diverse environments (not a single goal -- e.g. check mate -- in a narrow environment -- e.g. chess).

 

 

 

I disagree, while those machines can calculate very high numbers of moves per second vs the 4? moves humans calculate. The ratio of valuable moves per total number of calculated moves is millions fold higher in humans cases, this ratio is very important in the determination of intelligence because it places values on each moves that humans are capable of, or else the intelligence is simulated and fake. This is one of the main problems in the determination of AI, because one can not place to much values on brute calculations, while the harder work is in the determination of this value. Autistic world champions is a myth vehiculated by those who don't have a clue of what being autistic means. Some autistics could process couple of times more moves per second, yet they can not assess the values of each of those moves. That Fisher was autistic is a total myth.

 

 

 

It is this "valuation," giving importance which is a correlate with self awarness, the perception and concentration among various possibilities of a limited valuable possibilities which is very difficult to reproduce. So in short, what is a sign of intelligence is not that humans can actually play those moves in chess, but rather that they are capable of excelling so much, with the limited numbers of moves they can conceptualise per second. I believe this is because the brain is a quantum computer, but that is a different story.

 

 

[DominO123]

Aronian won 4-th game too.

 

Aronian - 3

Kramnik - 1

 

 

 

The last two games will take place tomorrow in Yerevan.

 

 

You know, Kramnik is current World Chess Champion.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh, but this will not determine the world champion, it is a friendly match. But it shows that Aronian could one day become the World Champion.

 

 

[GevorgP]

Shahan axper:

 

Thinking that way may lead to some banal conclusions too:

 

1) There is no need to teach children at schools, because every child may solve problems using computer; just through becoming friendly user of some computer software. Note please that it will take, at most, several months of training.

 

2) Employers should not require university education, for the scientist position: being friendly user of some specific scientific software, is enough.

 

As you see it ends up with nonsense.

 

Don't forget that nowadays computers are created by the human beings and for instance the chess software; accumulates all up to date achievements; introduced by all outstanding chess players for centuries. And now whoever plays chess with computer is competing with, hundreds of grandmasters, whose ideas are incorporated in the chess software database.

 

Nevertheless although all possible positions in chess are limited (not infinite) sometimes grandmasters are winning computer. That is, even now, the software still is not accurate yet. And in future it needs some of the current grandmasters/mathematicians fresh ideas to be included in it.

 

Therefore our kids INTELECT should be polished through education (including chess training) to enable them to create more and more "intellectual" software that will be adjusted/corrected by new more intellectual generations.

 

Humankind doesn't create yet absolutely comprehensive tests of intelligence. Therefore chess is considered to be one of the most effective tools in the area. Do you agree?

 

Now world appreciates Armenian achievements in chess. Why don't you enjoy the fact that your nation is the best in the World at this point of time?

 

Don't be shy!

 

Some nations that have no any outstanding achievements throughout their history are conceiving them from scratch; through rewriting history books.

 

Just accept things as they are, in fact.

 

I appriciate your ideas,expressed in your posts, about the RoA economy development; but this is different thing, intelectual software never will become wiser than man.

 

This looks like the hen and egg problem.

 

Edited May 6, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Congratulation!

 

Final result is:

 

 

Aronian - 4

Kramnik - 2

 

 

Edited May 6, 2007 by GevorgP

[Shahan Araradian]

Բարեւ Գէորգ,

 

Shahan axper:

 

Thinking that way may lead to some banal conclusions too:

 

1) There is no need to teach children at schools, because every child may solve problems using computer; just through becoming friendly user of some computer software. Note please that it will take, at most, several months of training.

 

2) Employers should not require university education, for the scientist position: being friendly user of some specific scientific software, is enough.

 

As you see it ends up with nonsense.

All human knowledge is being encoded in software today. The last phase is where humans develop software that can learn and adapt and achieve arbitrary goals commanded by a human. I think there will be a fundamental paradigm shift in human interactions and activity once we reach this level of intelligence in software.

 

Don't forget that nowadays computers are created by the human beings and for instance the chess software; accumulates all up to date achievements; introduced by all outstanding chess players for centuries. And now whoever plays chess with computer is competing with, hundreds of grandmasters, whose ideas are incorporated in the chess software database.

 

Nevertheless although all possible positions in chess are limited (not infinite) sometimes grandmasters are winning computer. That is, even now, the software still is not accurate yet. And in future it needs some of the current grandmasters/mathematicians fresh ideas to be included in it.

That is a very good point. As long as a human can be more "creative" in his moves then it may win. However, human intelligence is not evolving as quickly as computer software and hardware. As you may be aware, the complexity of a microprocessor increases by two-fold every 18 months. That means a computer 18 months from now with the same cost as one today will be able to traverse twice the finite set of possible moves in chess as a computer today does. (In 15 years, that is a 1000x increase. In 30 years, that is a 1,000,000x increase.)

 

Therefore our kids INTELECT should be polished through education (including chess training) to enable them to create more and more "intellectual" software that will be adjusted/corrected by new more intellectual generations.

Chess training is excellent for young kids, and I think that computer programming should be taught and encouraged to kids of this age, too, (of course, for the scientific/mathematically inclined kids -- not necessarily to kids who are uninterested in this field). I know that in India children are being taught computer programming in elementary school (using very basic and interesting educational languages such as Logo).

 

Humankind doesn't create yet absolutely comprehensive tests of intelligence. Therefore chess is considered to be one of the most effective tools in the area. Do you agree?

I don't believe chess is a test of general intelligence; that is, it does not test how a mind can adapt to various environments in order to achieve different goals. But chess is a good test of decision-making and logic in KNOWN environments (that is, environments with clearly defined rules).

 

Now world appreciates Armenian achievements in chess. Why don't you enjoy the fact that your nation is the best in the World at this point of time?

You're right. Կեցցէ՛ Հայաստան:

 

intelectual software never will become wiser than man. [/font][/size]

 

This looks like the hen and egg problem.

In my opinion, universal ai software will become more intelligent (and powerful) than any (unmodified) biological intelligence (i.e. humans) in the first half of the 21st century. (However, I think without merging with biological life, it won't be possible for these UAIs to "feel" emotion as a human does. And merging with biological intelligence will also happen in the first half of the 21st century.)

Edited May 6, 2007 by Shahan Araradian

[GevorgP]

Aronian won:

 

Aronian Levon (ARM)...... 7

Carlsen Magnus (NOR).... 5

 

Congratulations!!!!!

Edited June 3, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Levon Aronian (ARM)...... 1

Peter Leko (HUN)....... 0

 

Congratulations

Edited September 16, 2007 by GevorgP

[GevorgP]

Both Armenians are in first places

 

Standings after round 12: grandmaster group A

 

1. L. Aronian 7½

M. Carlsen 7½

3. T. Radjabov

V. Anand 7

5. V. Ivanchuk 6½

6. V. Kramnik

S. Mamedyarov

M. Adams

P. Leko 6

10. J. Polgar

V. Topalov 5½

12. P. Eljanov 5

13. L. van Wely 4½

14. B. Gelfand 4

 

Standings after round 12: grandmaster group B

 

1. S. Movsesian 9

 

2. E. Bacrot

N. Short 8

4. P. Harikrishna 7

5. I. Nepomniachtchi 6½

6. D. Stellwagen 6

7. Y. Hou

J. Smeets

E. L'Ami

I. Cheparinov 5½

11. H. Koneru 5

12. M. Krasenkow 4½

13. W. Spoelman

G. Sargissian 4

 

Congratulations!

Edited January 27, 2008 by GevorgP

[DominO123]

Aronian screwed it again, against V. Ivanchuk he was clearly winning but screwed the ending. The match to watch on round 13 would be the Azeri against Carlsen. Aronian will end probably with a draw against Polgar, she has the white pieces.

 

Carlsen is White but the Azeri is stronger on paper, but Carlson has really played well on Corus. For Aronian to maintain the top position, he has to share it with Carlsen oe the Azeri. So funny to say it, either Carlsen and the Azeri should finish draw or the Azeri must win. (consdering it is a draw between Aronian and Pulgar, if Aronian win, he'll maintain his position)