Boycott Turkey Campaign Website

[vava]

what i've also noticed is that some armenians also pay turkish web hosting companies, without ever really inquiring/looking into to it.

 

I had a site hosted by a Canadian company a few months ago. I had a billing issue, and it could not get resolved until I finally ended up speaking with the general manager/owner - Mehmet something-oglu. Needless to say, I switched the next day.

 

It's hard to tell sometimes.

Edited April 26, 2006 by vava

[armjan]

I had a site hosted by a Canadian company a few months ago. I had a billing issue, and it could not get resolved until I finally ended up speaking with the general manager/owner - Mehmet something-oglu. Needless to say, I switched the next day.

 

It's hard to tell sometimes.

yes, there's a surprisingly large # of turkish hosting companies with reasonably cheap prices.

[hytga]

has anyone noticed, the towels at MGM are made in turkey?

[Aubépine]

does boycotting turkish schools count?

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20060425&hn=32402

 

These Turkish schools number around 300, in far-flung places like Laos, Gambia, Philippines, Belize etc. Most of them are located in the Balkans, Russia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Central Asia. They are funded by local and Turkish businessmen and cater to the local youth as there are hardly any Turks in these places. Their main aim is to create a network of pro-Turkish elites who will occupy important positions in their countries and who will have a special affinity for Turkey. It's all very strategically done and emphasis is put to countries where the education infrastructure is non-existent or inadequate. Turkish is compulsory in all of them and the students master it quite proficiently. Since the schools are self-reliant and education is free it creates a very favourable impression among the population. Of course the leadership in these countries are very grateful since no other country is doing anything remotely similar to this. These activities are not restricted to schools only, but small-business schemes and model farms as well. Their numbers are increasing exponentially and they operate very discreetly.

[Stormig]

All other matters aside, I can't even begin to imagine how bewildered (or even bankrupt) American business-owners would be if in the cumulative every ethnic group instructed their stores not to sell products from the country that was their oppressor or other. Arabs and Israelis each other, the Tibetans - China, the Chinese and others - Japan, the Copts - Egypt, several combinations among Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians, Chechens and other nationalities from the Russian Federation, former Soviet republics, or former Soviet satellites - Russia, Algerians the French, Somalis - Italy, Congolese - Belgium, Hereros - Germany, etc. Finally Native Americans and Americans against the current state of American affairs would call for boycott of everything American and everyone could go back to their homes, grow their own food, weave their own clothes, and smoke-signal.

[Aubépine]

What is being done to Armenian businesses in Turkey is also reprehensible. I know personally that there is a hidden boycott going on in the Kapalı Çarşı (Covered Bazaar) against Armenians jewelers and silversmiths. The same goes for the small-business owners in Pangaltı and Osmanbey. They are blacklisted and they don't even know it I think. The main street in Pangaltı is almost lifeless. It's all hush-hush, but some people are frantically searching for Armenian names under every stone. Some wholesalers are refusing to deal with Armenian businesses.

[Stormig]

Oh and also, regarding this trip with companies run by Turks or companies that employ Turks (LMAO), is there an extension of this to countries other than the US and is this a whole-sale, blanket boycott, and would there also a project to document and white-list Turks that are critical of their state policy and/or that acknowledge the Armenian genocide? Hand out badges of acknowledgement certification to individuals, companies, universities, etc., to shield them (could "them" include Orhan Pamuk, maybe?) from such wrath, perhaps? What would it read? "Armenian genocide recognised here"?

Oh, and a cue from me - while you're at it, boycott Atlantic Records, too.

[Boghos]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.

 

But don´t misunderstand me. I think that often we need this kind of psychological encouragement even if to strengthen the sense of identity, albeit in a negative way (ie I am what I don´t do, not what I do) .

Recently I was looking at a number of soccer jerseys, my nephew collects them , and I found a very nice one, I can´t recall the country, but it was made in Turkey. I decided not to buy it. It was an individual reaction, not a thoughtful collective act with a clear intent.

I think that there is a big difference between individual choice and collective acts in terms of the motivation and the consequences:

 

- first and foremost let me state that there is no chance in the world that such boycott would have any meaningful impact in Turkey, or any impact at all. Perhaps it would make us look foolish, Quixotesque.

- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?

- third, boycotts are fertile ground for manipulation of people, that is why I on an individual level it is fine to boycott (or not) but to believe that one is part of a conspiracy to hurt Turkey is a delusion. It may make one feel good but nothing else.

 

My question is and will always be: why do we spend so much time with these kinds of issues? Let´s focus on building.

[Stormig]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.

(...)

- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?

(...)

And isn't that the case with the closed border today, although not necessarily of such grave consequences? I've said before that the average Hovhannes pays more for the same (or worse) merchandise.

[MosJan]

Boycotting Turkish goods reminds me of similar campaigns in the 70s and 80s, such as South Africa. Not much ever came from them and in the case of South Africa the consequences were of the worst kind: it pushed the country into the underworld of international trade. So it ended up supporting criminals and hurting consumers, black and white alike, that paid higher prices for worse goods.

 

But don´t misunderstand me. I think that often we need this kind of psychological encouragement even if to strengthen the sense of identity, albeit in a negative way (ie I am what I don´t do, not what I do) .

Recently I was looking at a number of soccer jerseys, my nephew collects them , and I found a very nice one, I can´t recall the country, but it was made in Turkey. I decided not to buy it. It was an individual reaction, not a thoughtful collective act with a clear intent.

I think that there is a big difference between individual choice and collective acts in terms of the motivation and the consequences:

 

- first and foremost let me state that there is no chance in the world that such boycott would have any meaningful impact in Turkey, or any impact at all. Perhaps it would make us look foolish, Quixotesque.

- second: I am all for the opening of the borders with Turkey (or any country for that matter), Turkish goods are aplenty in Armenia, so how do we deal with that?

- third, boycotts are fertile ground for manipulation of people, that is why I on an individual level it is fine to boycott (or not) but to believe that one is part of a conspiracy to hurt Turkey is a delusion. It may make one feel good but nothing else.

 

My question is and will always be: why do we spend so much time with these kinds of issues? Let´s focus on building.

 

 

Boghos jan 600.000 Armenian in LA might not be able to hurt the prosperous turkish economy - but the $$$ spend by them on goods imported from turky can surly help business growth in small country like Armenia. So instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

[Boghos]

Boghos jan 600.000 Armenian in LA might not be able to hurt the prosperous turkish economy - but the $$$ spend by them on goods imported from turky can surly help business growth in small country like Armenia. So instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

 

Hard to disagree, sireli Mos Jan. Hence our efforts should be in building ours, let the Turks be. We need to be confident of our trackrecord.

 

I think we end up "flattering" them with so much attention.

[MosJan]

boghos jan this is an discussion and i my self would like to see many opinions on it - have the .com/s - have the hosting - have some ideas on the design and content,

 

Boghos jan i promise you it will be fine my Brother

we will not be or go dawn to a level of tel tell tell or lay lay lay web sits by turks and azeris

BTW - i can't remember any turk criticizing them

[hytga]

o instead of getting your self an GAzoz imported form turky - you get an NOYAN fruit juice .... anyway you get the idea.

what? gazoz is made in turkey? I thought it was armenian

[MosJan]

have seen one 3 or 4 years a go - yellow/green color container

[vava]

Boghos jan, I realise that any consumer boycott - especially by a group as insignificant in numbers as are Armenians - will have little or no economic effect on Turkey or her industries. I don't really think that's the intent. But you touched on an idea that has some validity: there is certainly a phsychological factor associated with this type of action. People feel good about supporting a certain a collective cause. The choices are always personal - but it's exactly the grass-roots nature of such an initiative that makes it gel.

 

More later - gotta go....

[Dave]

It isn't a good idea to buy Turkish goods, especially if neighbouring Turkic countries are doing everything to suffocate Armenia economically.

 

We don't need to "boycott". It should be natural for an Armenian to stay away from Turkish products.

[Azat]

And isn't that the case with the closed border today, although not necessarily of such grave consequences? I've said before that the average Hovhannes pays more for the same (or worse) merchandise.

and why is it that the borders are closed. who closed the borders to make their neighbor suffer? unfortunately the products that Turkey would have sold to Armenians in Armenia, she is selling to Armenians in US.

 

my boycott of Turkish goods and services may be insignificant but 7 million Armenians boycotting may be a bit more than just a drop in the bucket.

 

also, i rather see Hovhannes get an 'inferior' product for a little less money and make Gevork wealthy in Armenia rather than he get the 'better' product for cheaper and make Talath richer in Turkey.

 

as for the companies in US not having products from all thos countries listed, majority of those countries have acknowledged and apologized, not Turkey!

[Stormig]

Azat, the border is closed for a reason or lack thereof other than the anger behind this, and assume a boycott on top of that.

 

I rest my case with the smoke-signalling and badge and certification, as nobody seems to be bothered by the notion that they could at some point throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

What "Talaat," for goodness' sake? Doesn't it follow that for every Turkish exporter there has to be at least one Armenian middle man getting rich as well? And isn't it also the case that in the event Gevork the manufacturer is getting rich, he is doing it by being able to sell inside his country and export as well, including to Turkey?

In all honesty and with all due respect to all, examples such as freaking out when you talk to a certain Mehmet Something-oglu on the phone, whether he own or be employed in a non-Turkish business or not, is not the right state of psyche to be in. If you have also taken it so far as to discriminate between businesses that employ Turks, then by all means you should also be able to say something that sounds like, "We don't like you," or go up to your boss and ask of them not to do business with that Turkish construction company or quit your job if they don't live up to your expectations. That to me sounds a bit out of place given Armenians in RoA want the border opened and occasionally work in Turkish-owned businesses not only in Turkey but elsewhere as well, such as the Russian Federation.

I, too, have my personal preferences as to where I buy what from, and often if someone is going to buy me something from a store I instruct them what to buy for me and what not to. If they ask, I tell them my reasons. I can't see myself pontificating at length or rounding up a campaign.

Remember that boycotts on the grass-roots level are short-lived - Greeks have been going at this for years and apparently it doesn't change much where Turkey is concerned, plus Greeks are known for being emotionally wired and not necessarlily where it makes Italians attractive - and have nowhere the impact of official, national, or international motions, and even then you can't predict the pros and cons of such unless it is an all-arounder as with the case of South Africa - see the Arab boycott of Israeli goods - Jaffa oranges and dates come to mind - on the ground and abroad at 200+ million heads.

 

I think that calling for promotion of Armenian goods and funnelling efforts there would be a step toward building that Rome. It doesn't sound as gratifying as getting the shop-owner hunched up apologising for selling the other side's goods and not yours, boycotting the big bad turkey, but it is proactive and can have a life much longer than a negative association if indeed it counts as much to its supporters as they claim.

[vava]

In all honesty and with all due respect to all, examples such as freaking out when you talk to a certain Mehmet Something-oglu on the phone, whether he own or be employed in a non-Turkish business or not, is not the right state of psyche to be in.

 

Stormig jan,

 

I realise that my statement earlier can easily be misconsrtrued as an (almost) fanatical discriminatory behaviour - I was going to explain that a bit more in detail in my last post above, however I am currently getting killed at work, so no time. This weekend I'll explain my reasoning behind this and hopefully you'll understand a little better what my motivations were in that particular case....

[gamavor]

Armenians should have imposed boycott and embargo for a long time. At this specific time we have the rare opportunity to do this long awaited action for many reasons, which I will try to innumerate further down.

 

Firstly, Armenian Diaspora has never ever been so close to unity - be it political, religious, cultural, etc... Due to what we call "globalization", Armenian communities all over the world are building bridges that can work more efficiently for our goals. Plus, many Diasporans for different reasons change their place of habitat for "greener pastures" which gives more opportunities for the Diasporans to communicate closely with their fellow Armenians. While this positive impetus could very well be used for betterment of Republic of Armenia, our past unhealed wounds also can be softened

 

Turkey imposed illegal blockade over Armenia due to the war with neighboring Azerbaijan over Artzakh. The West turned blind eye to this de-facto embargo. While Armenian citizens are allowed to travel and even illegally work in Turkey, Armenian companies have hard time exporting their goods to third countries.

 

Both EU Parliamentarians and the World Bank representatives tried to influence Turkey to change that policy and try to establish normal relations with Armenia.

 

Why boycott? Boycott is a peaceful protest over certain policy conducted most of the time by a government. Any government. Someone asked, what is the guild of the ordinary Mehmet to be punished with such a measure, even though he personally may even recognize the genocide of the Armenians in Turkey and is sympathetic to our cause?

 

Here is why. The ordinary Mehmet working somewhere in the west sends money home which the Turkish government in one form or another taxes, hence builds her budget. Same goes for the Turkish companies be it in Turkey or abroad, same goes for the International business that conducts business with turks or Turkey. Of course, we can't influence to great extend their economy, nor we can punish the Turkish government for their stance on the genocide, but what we can do is to make them think twice. Some of the turkish businesses are built with the money and the wealth stolen from the Armenians. Why should we reward those companies by buying their products? Why we should tolerate our business partners to do business with such companies?

 

On the second note, there are some very big corporations in United States and Europe (mainly operated and owned with Armenian capital and participation) that can choose carefully their business partners which deal with Turkey. Ultimately, some Armenian companies from Armenia may also find a good market niche for their products.

 

Turks did this for long time. Even when they go to an Armenian owned store here in the States they buy their food, their goods. The Armenian in that case is a stupid middleman that thinks that he is very clever. He is not. Because, when he makes the next order, again he buys the Turkish goods intended for the same Turkish customer. I hope I conveyed the message clearly! Don't buy turkish. Don't deal with turks!

[Yervant1]

I have been boycotting Turkish products and will continue to do so until Armenian and Turkish relations come to a satisfactory conclusion.

As we speak Turkey is trying to cofiscate Armenian lands belonging to church and charitable organizations, by using every trick in the book and yet here we are can't even come to a unified position and have a peacefull boycott of their stinking products.

[Zartonk]

Some of the turkish businesses are built with the money and the wealth stolen from the Armenians. Why should we reward those companies by buying their products? Why we should tolerate our business partners to do business with such companies?

 

Well said gams. Plain and simple.

[vava]

I had a site hosted by a Canadian company a few months ago. I had a billing issue, and it could not get resolved until I finally ended up speaking with the general manager/owner - Mehmet something-oglu. Needless to say, I switched the next day.

 

It's hard to tell sometimes.

Just for the record, I was lazy when I posted this - I switched firstly as a result of the said billing problems. The fact that he was the owner was Turkish was secondary - but yes, was a factor. I have been personally boycotting Turkish goods and services for quite some time, and will continue to do so until there is an open border between the two countries with normalised trade. That is my choice, my right, and it's not based upon racism, but more on economy - why should I pour my own money to support industry in a country that is actively engaged in suffocating mine?

 

 

Oh and also, regarding this trip with companies run by Turks or companies that employ Turks (LMAO), is there an extension of this to countries other than the US and is this a whole-sale, blanket boycott, and would there also a project to document and white-list Turks that are critical of their state policy and/or that acknowledge the Armenian genocide? Hand out badges of acknowledgement certification to individuals, companies, universities, etc., to shield them (could "them" include Orhan Pamuk, maybe?) from such wrath, perhaps? What would it read? "Armenian genocide recognised here"?

Oh, and a cue from me - while you're at it, boycott Atlantic Records, too.

 

...

 

I rest my case with the smoke-signalling and badge and certification, as nobody seems to be bothered by the notion that they could at some point throw the baby out with the bath water.

Good point Stormy. Unfortunately there is no way for me as an average Armenian/North Amercian consumer to know differentiate Turkish goods/services along those lines. My only alternatives are to ignore the border blockade and buy Turkish goods, or, avoid supporting these products until the trade/border situation is resolved. In this case it becomes all or nothing - without any badges. I would hope that the Turks who are critical of their government will understand the reasons for the boycott, and not take things personally (as it's directed principally at the Turkish administration and not individuals per se. And I wouldn't quite qualify it as wrath, although I can see why you would draw such a conclusion.

 

 

In all honesty and with all due respect to all, examples such as freaking out when you talk to a certain Mehmet Something-oglu on the phone, whether he own or be employed in a non-Turkish business or not, is not the right state of psyche to be in. If you have also taken it so far as to discriminate between businesses that employ Turks, then by all means you should also be able to say something that sounds like, "We don't like you," or go up to your boss and ask of them not to do business with that Turkish construction company or quit your job if they don't live up to your expectations. That to me sounds a bit out of place given Armenians in RoA want the border opened and occasionally work in Turkish-owned businesses not only in Turkey but elsewhere as well, such as the Russian Federation.

I think that part of the protest/boycott is a result of the border closure. If there were normalised trade between the countries than there would be less impetus for a boycott.

 

 

I think that calling for promotion of Armenian goods and funnelling efforts there would be a step toward building that Rome. It doesn't sound as gratifying as getting the shop-owner hunched up apologising for selling the other side's goods and not yours, boycotting the big bad turkey, but it is proactive and can have a life much longer than a negative association if indeed it counts as much to its supporters as they claim.

Agreed - a personal boycott is just a small step. More importance needs to be placed on improving the movement of commodities and services in and out of the RoA.

 

 

Why boycott? Boycott is a peaceful protest over certain policy conducted most of the time by a government. Any government. Someone asked, what is the guild of the ordinary Mehmet to be punished with such a measure, even though he personally may even recognize the genocide of the Armenians in Turkey and is sympathetic to our cause?

 

Here is why. The ordinary Mehmet working somewhere in the west sends money home which the Turkish government in one form or another taxes, hence builds her budget. Same goes for the Turkish companies be it in Turkey or abroad, same goes for the International business that conducts business with turks or Turkey. Of course, we can't influence to great extend their economy, nor we can punish the Turkish government for their stance on the genocide, but what we can do is to make them think twice. Some of the turkish businesses are built with the money and the wealth stolen from the Armenians. Why should we reward those companies by buying their products? Why we should tolerate our business partners to do business with such companies?

[Stormig]

Vava, I can see where you are coming from if not buying Turkish apricots, but isn't taking an action against Turkish business owners and/or employees, even if secondary to the matter and in a "Sorry, not personal, is business" sort of way, going too far? That they send money home or pay taxes or such - this is also true for Armenians with Turkish citizenship who still have family in Turkey. Do you shun them, too? What are they in their turn to do? Throw themselves off the Bosphorus bridge for owning businesses in Turkey? What about Armenian entrepreneurs who have investments in Turkey and Armenia? They close shop in Turkey? I think that for it to be all or none and for it to continue to be a valid reason throughout if directly involving other persons - after all it is one thing to not buy products and cause the apricot processing factory loss and indirectly cost people their jobs or income and another to directly take such action - some things have to be able to be universal, at least in theory. So now there are also first instances where such doesn't hold.

[gamavor]

Boycott against Turkish products and services makes even more sense for ordinary Americans. I strongly urge them not to buy "CAMEL" cigarettes. Although I'm in the anti-war camp, the war in Iraq proved once again that Turkey is nor very reliable partner. While the American base in Inchirlig was used for re-fueling and re-enforcement the Turks absolutely refused to cooperate for the northern route of the ground operations, which cost the American taxpayer another few billion dollars of mine and yours tax money. Not to speak about the few hundred American soldiers' lives that could have been spared.

 

Armenians doing business in Turkey are absolutely out of use for any Armenian cause. All they can do is to enrich the turkish society and their own families and well being. To me the multy millionaire Turkish citizen of Armenian origin that few years ago opened a brand new factory somewhere in the eastern provinces in Turkey is simply a bastard.