Iran Plans Holocaust Conference

[skhara]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/15/iran.holocaust.ap/

 

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran, whose president has denied the Holocaust, said Sunday it would hold a conference to examine the scientific evidence concerning Nazi Germany's extermination of 6 million Jews.

 

Hard-line Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has recently provoked global condemnation for saying the Holocaust is a "myth" and calling for Israel to be wiped from the face of the earth.

 

Iran further alarmed Western countries last week by restarting its research at a nuclear facility after a two-year freeze.

 

"It is a strange world. It is possible to discuss everything except the Holocaust," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told reporters.

 

"The Foreign Ministry plans to hold a conference on the scientific aspect of the issue to discuss and review its repercussions."

 

Asefi did not say where or when the conference would be held or who would attend.

 

Earlier this month, the Association of Muslim Journalists, a hard-line group, proposed holding a similar conference.

 

But Asefi said he was not aware of the association's wishes. He said the conference he announced was planned and supported by the ministry.

 

On Saturday, Ahmadinejad urged the West to be open-minded enough to allow a free international debate on the real aspects of the Holocaust.

 

Rep. Tom Lantos, a California Democrat, has said he understood Iran was considering a conference to call into question the evidence that the Nazis conducted a mass murder of European Jews during World War II.

[Arpa]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/15/iran.holocaust.ap/

 

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran, whose president has denied the Holocaust, said Sunday it would hold a conference to examine the scientific evidence concerning Nazi Germany's extermination of 6 million Jews.

 

Finally,!!

Islamic culture is learning how to employ the ”pen” alongside and in addition to the “sword”.

One wonders if Turkish “sikolars” , for a moment I forgot how to spell “scholar”, and their hireling denialists, the likes of Justin McFarty, Bernard Loo-wis* and Mehmet Kemal Turkoglu will also be invited. Maybe someone should remind Mr. Ahmadin-jihad” that the master denialists reside right under his nose, across their western, and northern borders.

Then again. Who the hell cares about the “whole-a- hoax”!!!

That is, any more than those who hold that patent care about OUR Big G!!!

 

 

* Look up, if you must what the Brits call that appliance in the bathroom.

[Dave]

This same person has promised to recognize the Armenian genocide a few months ago.

[Arpa]

This same person has promised to recognize the Armenian genocide a few months ago.

 

Is there a fine line to distinguish between Iranian(Shiite) and Turkish (Sunni) ISLAM, as to which is more tolerant and friendly to the gavur/kafir/infidel that we are?

Edited January 15, 2006 by Arpa

[skhara]

Is there a fine line to distinguish between Iranian(Shiite) and Turkish (Sunni) ISLAM, as to which is more tolerant and friendly to the gavur/kafir/infidel that we are?

 

I don't know about their Islam, but there is a fine line between Turks and Iranians. Ones, are natural rapists, killers, and pillagers. The others are an ancient Indo-European people of high civilisation.

[vava]

I don't know about their Islam, but there is a fine line between Turks and Iranians. Ones, are natural rapists, killers, and pillagers. The others are an ancient Indo-European people of high civilisation.

 

I would venture to say that it's not so 'fine' - more like a chasm. But this new leader of theirs is digging them into deep international doo doo. I hope the friendly economic relations between Armenia and Iran don't have poor consequences for Armenia as a result of his crazy ranting.

[skhara]

I would venture to say that it's not so 'fine' - more like a chasm.

 

Yes, you are right.

 

But this new leader of theirs is digging them into deep international doo doo.

 

Possibly with some, not with others. We'll see how it plays out.

 

I hope the friendly economic relations between Armenia and Iran don't have poor consequences for Armenia as a result of his crazy ranting.

 

I don't see why it would. I've never seen any evidence of any kind of anti-Armenian sentiment from this current Iranian regime, with the worsening relations with Russia especially as a result of the gas price hike, I doubt that Armenia can afford to distance herself from Iran.

[ED]

Shkara tell me if there is more in this guy then just the fact he anti-isreal

 

you dont win simpaty or respect in high places in this world with school boy politics with comments like "Israel should be moved to Germany"

 

give me a break,

he has a potential turning what Iran almost came to be, an open sociaity, into another north Korea

[phantom22]

This whole affair is not good for Armenia. Given our present circumstance Iran is a strategic ally of Armenia. If Iran isolates itself, it will reflect poorly on Armenia. Unfortunately, we have two impossible neighbors to deal with. One jails people for even alluding to Genocide and the other jumps up and down with glee when an Armenian soldier is murdered in cold blood in his sleep in Hungary. These two rogue nations are close allies with the US and Israel. Do the US and Israel have any credibility in criticizing the Iranian leader in these matters when they do not criticize Turkey and Azerbajian?

I would venture to say that it's not so 'fine' - more like a chasm. But this new leader of theirs is digging them into deep international doo doo. I hope the friendly economic relations between Armenia and Iran don't have poor consequences for Armenia as a result of his crazy ranting.

[skhara]

Shkara tell me if there is more in this guy then just the fact he anti-isreal

 

My guess would be yes. I'd assume that Iranians in general are, whether they openely state so or not.

 

you dont win simpaty or respect in high places in this world with school boy politics with comments like "Israel should be moved to Germany"

 

High places change. In the muslim world, there are a lot of people he is winning sympathy with. Besides, the only truly high places there are in the world, are in Washington and Tel-Aviv. Those who've repeatedly threatened his nation before he became president. I doubt he is trying to win sympathy with them. Besides the fact that high places are not in the business of handing out sympathy, high places execute agendas with rotten international politics. By winning sympathy with the mob, he looks to put himself in a high place. Those who put themselves in a high place, do not need any sympathy from existing high places.

 

give me a break,

he has a potential turning what Iran almost came to be, an open sociaity, into another north Korea

 

Nope. North Korea is pretty much isolated from everyone, given Iran's geostrategic position, that is impossible.

[Takoush]

High places change. In the muslim world, there are a lot of people he is winning sympathy with. Besides, the only truly high places there are in the world, are in Washington and Tel-Aviv. Those who've repeatedly threatened his nation before he became president. I doubt he is trying to win sympathy with them. Besides the fact that high places are not in the business of handing out sympathy, high places execute agendas with rotten international politics. By winning sympathy with the mob, he looks to put himself in a high place. Those who put themselves in a high place, do not need any sympathy from existing high places.

 

So skhara; based on your explanations here, I am linking this guy with the late Khomeni; who pretty much made all the islamic arabic nationalities to be much more religious than ever. I feel based on what you're saying, this guy is pretty much or close to what Khomeni has done; by that I mean he is making the arabs to be more close knitted together as he's charging at the Israelis, he will win the arabs' hearts and respects. So that all the arab islamic people will look up to him as their sole and godly islam leader as he'll unite all the arab heretical and sects together under one roof; then he'll be their next wonderful Khomeni or Mohammed. And on the way of doing this he'll make them to be more of a schismatic and leftist arabs.

 

That's what I perceive to make out of your explanations.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[vava]

That's a very simplistic take on things Anahid.

I don't think that by bristling his furr at the west, and the UN (it's not just a stance against the US, btw) he is going to make allies in the arab world. Most of the arab world has figured out that properity is easily reached through proper diplomacy and trade. They have long realised even if you dislike your customers, you must sell your wares - so you do it with a smile. So in short, no: no one will come watch Iran's back for the sake of some fundamentalist ideology. The sooner Iran implements reforms, and begins to further integrate itself within the global society - the sooner it will help itself attain prosperity for it's people. Iran should be a 'have' nation, not a 'have not' nation, and if this crackpot continues along this path, I see only a bleak future for the Iranian people.

[Takoush]

But Vava; I was not saying those "symplistic" views as you put it based on my perceptions or my views. I was simply trying to understand and I've tried to elaborate as to what skhara was conveying to us above.

 

Before this and still; I fully understand that this guy has to go along with and integrate his Iran within the global society and the acceptance of it.

 

However I am curious vava. Why is it that when skhara posted his at exactly 7:58 a.m. this morning you did not answer him on his original idea at all; yet you have answered on mine right away, even though I wasn't the one that came out with the actual and or the original idea. As I have just told you that I was merely trying to understand him, his mentality and his views. Are you intimidated by him? Or did I miss anything.

Edited January 16, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[vava]

But Vava; I was not saying those "symplistic" views as you put it based on my perceptions or my views. I was simply trying to understand and I've tried to elaborate as to what skhara was conveying to us above.

 

Before this and still; I fully understand that this guy has to go along with and integrate his Iran within the global society and the acceptance of it.

 

However I am curious vava. Why is it that when skhara posted his at exactly 7:58 a.m. this morning you did not answer him on his original idea at all; yet you have answered on mine right away, even though I wasn't the one that came out with the actual and or the original idea. As I have just told you that I was merely trying to understand him, his mentality and his views. Are you intimidated by him? Or did I miss anything.

 

Evidently you missed something.

[Takoush]

Evidently you missed something.

Yeah like what? I think you're just saying that to bust my chops.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Anahid Takouhi

[skhara]

Takouhi:

 

I appologize, I didn't answer earlier. I was going to, but forgot.

 

I wasn't talking about "Khomeni-like" or "uniting the Arabs", I was merely responding to Edwards comment regarding "high-places".

 

What I meant was, that Ahmadenijad has no reason nor purpose to seek respect from his enemies (Zionists - Washington/Tel-Aviv). Or the other rotten "international" bodies to which I loosely refer to with various different terms as "interventionist-left"="neo-Bolsheviks"="liberals".

 

He is looking to win friends amongst the enemies of the above, since his nation is enemies of the above mentioned (not necessarily Muslims).

 

As far as trade relations:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1701117_pf.html

[skhara]

BTW a couple of interesting developments.

 

Iran invited Tony Blair to the conference while Tony attacked it and said the Iranians should come to see the holcaust evidence for themeselves. Interestingly enough, to Tony's chagrin Iranians said they wil send investigators.

 

Bellow are how the events unfolded:

 

Iran invites Blair to Holocaust debate

 

Sunday 29 January 2006, 12:51 Makka Time, 9:51 GMT

 

Tony Blair says Ahmadinejad should visit Europe

 

 

Iran has invited the British prime minister to Tehran to take part in a conference on the Holocaust, branded a myth by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Islamic republic's president.

 

Hamid Reza Asefi, a foreign ministry spokesman, said: "It would be good for Mr Blair to participate in the Holocaust seminar in Tehran.

 

"He can also contribute with an article. If he wants to defend the Holocaust in that article, he can do so. We will give him the time to read out his article so others can hear his point of view."

 

The conference is scheduled for spring.

 

On Monday, Tony Blair attacked the meeting, saying it was "shocking, ridiculous, stupid". He said Ahmadinejad "should come and see the evidence of the Holocaust himself in the countries of Europe"

 

Iran's foreign ministry has already said it is willing to send a team of independent investigators to visit former Nazi death camps across Europe.

 

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1D6...FDE695E70DE.htm

 

 

Now things get a bit more interesting:

 

WARSAW (Reuters) - Poland's Foreign Minister Stefan Meller on Friday ruled out allowing any Iranian researchers to examine the scale of the Holocaust committed by the German Nazis on Polish soil during World War Two.

 

Meller's remarks came after repeated denials of the Jewish Holocaust by Iranian officials and their suggestions that more research is needed to establish the truth about what happened to European Jews.

 

"Under no circumstances we should allow something like that to take place in Poland," Meller told Polish news agency PAP. "It goes beyond all imaginable norms to question, even discuss or negotiate the issue."

 

Polish daily Rzeczpospolita reported on Friday that Iran wants to send researchers to Poland to examine the scale of the Nazi crimes during the war.

 

Some 6 million Jews perished in the Holocaust, with an estimated 1.1 million killed in gas chambers at Auschwitz- Birkenau, a death camp set up in German-occupied Poland.

 

Last week Iran's ambassador to Lisbon, who in the past served as a diplomat in Poland, said in an interview on Portuguese radio that according to his calculations based on a visit to the camp, now a museum, it would have taken the Nazis 15 years to burn the corpses of 6 million people.

Source

[Z'areh]

It is understandable why Poland would refuse Iranian "experts" visiting th death camp sites. Everybody knows that they will come with a preconceived judgments. Just letting them in Poland would be a victory to all those who deny the Holocaust.

 

If anyone who has no problems with Iranians "visiting" the death camps must have absolutely no problems with ATAA forcing the State of Massachusetts to include the official Turkish "take" on the Armenian Genocide.

 

One cannot have double standards and expect to be taken seriously.

 

As for president Ahmadinnijad, this guy was brought to public service only to keep the Mullahs in power. His presidency has little to do with what is good for the Iranian people, for the Iranian population at large had no say in his election. For now, he is speaking for the relegious fanatics, and fanatics don't care much about truth or reason.

[skhara]

It is understandable why Poland would refuse Iranian "experts" visiting th death camp sites.

 

Investigators.

 

Everybody knows that they will come with a preconceived judgments.

 

Everyone has pre-conceived judgements on everything. If you know about anything, you automatically have preconceived judgements. Then these pre-conceived judgements become new pre-conceived judgement with more exposure. My pre-conceived judgement three years ago, is entirely different than today.

 

Just letting them in Poland would be a victory to all those who deny the Holocaust.

 

Just denying them entry to Poland makes the whole thing seem very fishy and gives the indication of something to hide. Reading about this I'm sure has fostered this new pre-conceived notion in many, especially the Iranian people.

 

If anyone who has no problems with Iranians "visiting" the death camps must have absolutely no problems with ATAA forcing the State of Massachusetts to include the official Turkish "take" on the Armenian Genocide.

 

Those "death camps" are there to be visited are they not? Your annalogy is entirely nonsensical.

 

One cannot have double standards and expect to be taken seriously.

 

ditto. The entire "west" is a double standard.

 

fanatics don't care much about truth or reason.

 

another ditto.

[Z'areh]

Investigators.

Everyone has pre-conceived judgements on everything. If you know about anything, you automatically have preconceived judgements. Then these pre-conceived judgements become new pre-conceived judgement with more exposure. My pre-conceived judgement three years ago, is entirely different than today.

Just denying them entry to Poland makes the whole thing seem very fishy and gives the indication of something to hide. Reading about this I'm sure has fostered this new pre-conceived notion in many, especially the Iranian people.

Those "death camps" are there to be visited are they not? Your annalogy is entirely nonsensical.

ditto. The entire "west" is a double standard.

another ditto.

 

 

 

Death camps are there to be visited and not "visited" [with quotation marks] ... which means they would be as impartial to finding about the truth as ATAA would be free from disseminating the Turkish official line on the Armenian Genocide issue.

 

What is clearly nonsensical is to have a mindset that allows the acceptance of one and the rejection of the other. If we agree upon the general idea of having Ahmadinnijad's "experts" or "investigators" go to Poland to "investigate" the Holocaust then we should agree that ATAA has a point in the Massachusetts lawsuit. There must be something "fishy and gives the indication of something to hide" which makes Armenians not to let the other point of view to be taught in schools.

 

The whole issue here is a case of one side trying to discredit the other. If one allows himself to believe that the Turkish government is indeed in the business of discrediting the Armenian side then it’s not far fetched (given the Iranian obsession of Israel) to understand that this government can easily get into the business of discrediting the Jews, which understandably can give Jew-haters something to cheer about. But, at the end of the day, the whole world will regard this as an empty-headed exercise in saber-rattling by a morally bankrupt government who, in the absence of legitimacy, need to look at no one else but to their own president to further discredit themselves.

 

Down deep even the Jew-haters know that.

[Verginne]

Death camps are there to be visited and not "visited" [with quotation marks] ... which means they would be as impartial to finding about the truth as ATAA would be free from disseminating the Turkish official line on the Armenian Genocide issue.

 

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. This is a totally invalid comparison.

 

What is clearly nonsensical is to have a mindset that allows the acceptance of one and the rejection of the other. If we agree upon the general idea of having Ahmadinnijad's "experts" or "investigators" go to Poland to "investigate" the Holocaust then we should agree that ATAA has a point in the Massachusetts lawsuit. There must be something "fishy and gives the indication of something to hide" which makes Armenians not to let the other point of view to be taught in schools.

 

Nonsense, one does not have to do with the other because Armenians always welcome investigation of the facts. On the other hand, that is not true with the jewish adventures of WWII. They don't want people investigating or givng information about their findings. There are three notable individuals jailed presently for doing so.

 

 

The issue here is a case of one side trying to discredit the other. If one allows himself to believe that the Turkish government is indeed in the business of discrediting the Armenian side then it’s not far fetched (given the Iranian obsession of Israel) to understand that this government can easily get into the business of discrediting the Jews, which understandably can give Jew-haters something to cheer about. But, at the end of the day, the whole world will regard this as an empty-headed exercise in saber-rattling by a morally bankrupt government who, in the absence of legitimacy, need to look at no one else but to their own president to further discredit themselves.

 

Down deep even the Jew-haters know that.

 

The issue here is that refusing the investigation is highly suspicious. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't go off on some lame tangent about "jew haters bla bla bla." That sounds like some lame tired script regurgitation.

[edward demian]

I'm more concerned with what the Iranian leader thinks of the Turks. I think that ultimately, the union of Turkish Islamic government with that of Irans Islamic government, holds far more danger for the Armenians. The Turks are far more successful at getting their ways diplomatically. Edited February 21, 2006 by edward demian

[skhara]

Oh for God's sake.

 

Why do you insist on drawing these illogical parallels? If Turkish officials want to send investigators to Der Zor how extremely idiotic and suspicious it would be to protest. The facts I gather from the Iranians side is that

 

1. Palestinians are made to pay the price for something the Europeans claim they did.

2. Palestinians are given practically no chance to defend themselves against zionist agression, for the zionist entity receives massive compensatioin for something that the Europeans claim they did.

3. We believe many of the claims are flat out fabrications or at least greatly exagerated.

4. We are not taking the claims made on faith alone and we will investigate.

 

 

I recognise the rhetoric bellow. It is ideological so-called "liberal" rhetoric. The not-so-liberal liberal type. I just give it my own label and call it neo-Bolshevism.

 

Oh -- and just an FYI.

 

That hitler quote about Armenians is a fake.

http://www.atmg.org/ArmenianDeception.html

 

Death camps are there to be visited and not "visited" [with quotation marks] ... which means they would be as impartial to finding about the truth as ATAA would be free from disseminating the Turkish official line on the Armenian Genocide issue.

 

What is clearly nonsensical is to have a mindset that allows the acceptance of one and the rejection of the other. If we agree upon the general idea of having Ahmadinnijad's "experts" or "investigators" go to Poland to "investigate" the Holocaust then we should agree that ATAA has a point in the Massachusetts lawsuit. There must be something "fishy and gives the indication of something to hide" which makes Armenians not to let the other point of view to be taught in schools.

 

The whole issue here is a case of one side trying to discredit the other. If one allows himself to believe that the Turkish government is indeed in the business of discrediting the Armenian side then it’s not far fetched (given the Iranian obsession of Israel) to understand that this government can easily get into the business of discrediting the Jews, which understandably can give Jew-haters something to cheer about. But, at the end of the day, the whole world will regard this as an empty-headed exercise in saber-rattling by a morally bankrupt government who, in the absence of legitimacy, need to look at no one else but to their own president to further discredit themselves.

 

Down deep even the Jew-haters know that.

Edited February 26, 2006 by vava

[Z'areh]

Oh for God's sake.

 

Why do you insist on drawing these illogical parallels? If Turkish officials want to send investigators to Der Zor how extremely idiotic and suspicious it would be to protest. The facts I gather from the Iranians side is that

 

1. Palestinians are made to pay the price for something the Europeans claim they did.

2. Palestinians are given practically no chance to defend themselves against zionist agression, for the zionist entity receives massive compensatioin for something that the Europeans claim they did.

3. We believe many of the claims are flat out fabrications or at least greatly exagerated.

4. We are not taking the claims made on faith alone and we will investigate.

I recognise the rhetoric bellow. It is ideological so-called "liberal" rhetoric. The not-so-liberal liberal type. I just give it my own label and call it neo-Bolshevism.

 

Oh -- and just an FYI.

 

That hitler quote about Armenians is a fake.

http://www.atmg.org/ArmenianDeception.html

Edited February 26, 2006 by vava

[Z'areh]

The parallels are perfectly logical. There is case in the courts in the US and Armenians are not quite happy about the changes that are being proposed. Or are you trying to avoid the subject???

 

 

1. Palestinians are made to pay the price for something the Europeans claim they did.

Z>true but irrelevant

 

2. Palestinians are given practically no chance to defend themselves against zionist agression, for the zionist entity receives massive compensatioin for something that the Europeans claim they did.

Z>true but terribly irrelevant

 

3. We believe many of the claims are flat out fabrications or at least greatly exagerated.

Z> You (plural) can believe the earth is flat if you (plural) wish to.

 

4. We are not taking the claims made on faith alone and we will investigate

Z>You (plural) can “investigate” all you want.