Artaxias Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Essentially, Verginne's facts aren't being questioned. The disagreement is how to fight against them and with which means and tactics. We need to fight against these forces with a low profile and continue gathering strength for the ultimate strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumkap Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 there was a similar discussion a while back here: http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.p...99&page=2&pp=15 (post #21 is where hryas enter the discussion) and here: http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.php?t=5708 btw, what is the difference btwn armenianclub.com/forum and hyeforum.com? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Can I hate the Turks? style_images/master/snapback.png IT seems we Armenians hate each other more then we hate turks Anoushik jan, But I must confess, I do hate LA traffic and this is when I can feel my inner world turns upside down, negative thoughts, anger and sudenly music of Berj Turabian, which I love, gets on my nervs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 kumkat, no direct like to forums please. About the differences between the two, the avrage ages of Hyeforum users is higher than the other place. Hyeforum as well, is the real thing, the other important Armenian forums are just immitations of hyeforum, which was the first real important Armenian forum. What "kleenex" is to tissue paper, Hyeforum is to Armenian forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hey Verginne, Do you reside in Orlando and did you once post under the name "Anoush?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Edward, LA traffic is the result of decades of of poor municipal planning, giving development companies a free-hand without requiring them to throw in money to alleviate the problems they cause (therefore shifting these costs to the taxpayers) and an incompetent, nepotism-laden state transportation agency where competence takes a backseat to personal and sexual relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Edward, LA traffic is the result of decades of of poor municipal planning, giving development companies a free-hand without requiring them to throw in money to alleviate the problems they cause (therefore shifting these costs to the taxpayers) and an incompetent, nepotism-laden state transportation agency where competence takes a backseat to personal and sexual relationships. style_images/master/snapback.png Hagarag, sometimes you make me lough very hard . what sexual relationships? and how does this contribute to LA Traffic? So you moved to east cost eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I guess the Freek Show is back in Hye forum Anush & CO. haw many times do we need to bannnnnn you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Edward, Alleviating traffic in LA requires a well-oiled, efficient operation. This means streamlining the processes required to build and maintain adequate transportation facilities and getting the most competent people to lead the way, not the woman with the best legs, nor the after-hours basketball buddies of the boss, nor someone's nephew. Indicative of these problems is the plight of the unfortunate Armenian-American who got crushed to death in Orange County when a portion of a highway bridge fell on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Astvats Jan indz HAmperutyun tur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Astvats Jan indz HAmperutyun tur style_images/master/snapback.png Poor Movses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Hate Tomatos if you must. style_images/master/snapback.png No way, I love tomatoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 But I must confess, I do hate LA traffic and this is when I can feel my inner world turns upside down, negative thoughts, anger and sudenly music of Berj Turabian, which I love, gets on my nervs style_images/master/snapback.png I hate LA traffic very much too, dear Edward. IT seems we Armenians hate each other more then we hate turks Anoushik jan, I don't know about that Edward but I do know that some Armenians despair so much about the economic situation in Armenia that they call their fellow Armenians Turks. Pretty unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 I hate LA traffic very much too, dear Edward. I don't know about that Edward but I do know that some Armenians despair so much about the economic situation in Armenia that they call their fellow Armenians Turks. Pretty unfortunate. style_images/master/snapback.png Pretty unfortunate. If an Armenian is stilling / rubbing destroying it’ country, heritage, culture – and if disrespecting his Nation – he disserves to be called or labeled anything but Armenian - even a turk An old friend was saying ” Armenia should be an privilege that you need to earn – even if you are born in Armenian family “ Quyrik jan HAyi yev HAyaXosi mej mets tarberutyun ka - iynpes or - JAkat@t BAts gluxt ver >>> Du Hye Es !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 ...or that moderators will not set aside the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. ...or that Verginne will not set aside proprieties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 kumkat, no direct like to forums please. About the differences between the two, the avrage ages of Hyeforum users is higher than the other place. Hyeforum as well, is the real thing, the other important Armenian forums are just immitations of hyeforum, which was the first real important Armenian forum. What "kleenex" is to tissue paper, Hyeforum is to Armenian forums. style_images/master/snapback.png Fadiushka you are incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 If an Armenian is stilling / rubbing destroying it’ country, heritage, culture – and if disrespecting his Nation – he disserves to be called or labeled anything but Armenian - even a turk style_images/master/snapback.png It will only hurt us, hurt our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 (edited) Essentially, Verginne's facts aren't being questioned. style_images/master/snapback.png Artaxias, I question the motives of anybody who channels ideas into a tunnel and expects people to follow blindly, anyone who uses selective historiography (that's being generous) is championing the likes of Justin McCarthy. People who give themselves permission to shape history as if it were a play-dough are desperate, at best. You can get any "source" to back up a point, and here we are served with a name of an individual, , who along with two others, a French and a German Jew, “invented” Pan-Turanism. And as a source we are given non-other than a proud Zionist to back up a point, while conveniently neglecting Ziya Gökalp, for whom Dadrian leaves no doubt as being the main personality behind the idea of Turanism, who essentially was the Turkish equivalent of Joseph Goebbels. The main reason for this is to give prominence to Jewish “invention” to be able to say "see, see what Jews did to us". The rise of Turkish nationalism was ripe to espouse Gokalp’s ideology of “Islam and modern technology” and how to marry the Islamic/Turkish traditions within the demands of modernity and integration with Europe, in fact he was at the opinion that Turkey should not be European and to keep the Turkish identity strong 1) they should look East instead of West [i.e. pan-Turanian expansion], 2) clear the Empire of unwanted Christian elements, Armenians being the primary target. Arminius Vambery, on the other hand, called the “oriental pimp” by the British for his extortionist exploits, was a so-called “orientalist” who was after one thing only and that was how to get himself filthy rich. And our Vergiinne wants to vindicate Turkish guilt for a low life nobody like Vambery. By now Armenian historians, whom we have all come to respect, would have picked up a thing or two in implicating Jewish plots in the planning and executing the elimination of the Armenians, as Anoush would have us to believe. David Ben-Gurion was also a member of the Young Turk movement and it would be inconceivable to think that he, along with other Jews, did not work for the establishment of Israel. The pie was up for grabs. I can just see the joy among today’s followers of Ziya Gökalp's ideology, the Grey Wolves in particular, laughing their brains out for the vindication of their "father" and thinking “suckers!!!!”. Edited June 24, 2005 by Z'areh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 There are some greedy bastards in Armenia who are destroying the country. The parks are being turned into more restaurants and coffeehouses. The older architecture is being summarily destroyed. The nor-harousts, who are well connected-many being former KGB-are not insuring that the masses get enough to eat. Phd's are begging for a living and eventually leaving the country. These are patriots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 These are patriots? style_images/master/snapback.png They are not patriots. But they are part of us. What would you rather happen, send Bush to Armenia to "democratize" our country as well? (Like most opposition leaders dream of.) My mom always says that the reason humanity has achieved such greats is because of a small percentage of real patriots and humanists. They are the ones who have cocnsistently suffered and sacrificed their lives for the common good so that the rest of the population will eat, drink, and party. Now, more than ever I believe her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 I am no supporter of Bush, but I believe that Armenia and Azerbaijan are part his adminstration's plan for an democratic upheavals similar ot the Ukraine and Georgia. They also want to see regime change in Teheran. My problem with Bush is mainly in his domestic policies, catering to the rich while driving the middle class into further debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 By the way, the masses have enough to eat. Nobody is starving in Armenia. Why is it that in other countries it is accepted that everyone has to work like a dog to make a living and in Armenia people are entitled to an excellent living without having to lift one finger. And I know of one PhD (my aunt) who works in two different universities, and has started to get a steady payscheck. Sure, we sent her money regularly every month. (She also desperately wanted to leave Armenia, but we convinced her to stay. With the money she earns and the money we sent she should not be thinking about leaving. I guess it has just become very fashionable to leave.) All recently emigrated Armenians sent money back to their relatives. Ideally, we shouldn't have to. But since we have to, aren't we glad to have the means to support our relatives in Armenia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 By the way, the masses have enough to eat. Nobody is starving in Armenia. Why is it that in other countries it is accepted that everyone has to work like a dog to make a living and in Armenia people are entitled to an excellent living without having to lift one finger. And I know of one PhD (my aunt) who works in two different universities, and has started to get a steady payscheck. Sure, we sent her money regularly every month. (She also desperately wanted to leave Armenia, but we convinced her to stay. With the money she earns and the money we sent she should not be thinking about leaving. I guess it has just become very fashionable to leave.) All recently emigrated Armenians sent money back to their relatives. Ideally, we shouldn't have to. But since we have to, aren't we glad to have the means to support our relatives in Armenia? style_images/master/snapback.png aren't we glad to have the means to support our relatives in Armenia? o yes we are glad yev iyspisov menq sharqits hanetsinq mi amborj serund nstats spasum en - poxarren@ ogtven iyd $$$ yev nuyn jamanak portsen irenst ujerov mi bani hasnel - vorosh@ der nstats - spasum en iyn $$$ irent barekami koghmits ugharkvats asxarhi mi ankyunits - astvat s gity te inchpes vastakvats inch dar@ q@rtinqov shaterin menq mer dzerqov sharqits hanetsinq - xosq2 chi verabervum tarets - hasak2 arats kam anAshxatunak mardkants - iyl normal JAHEl yeritasard asxhatunak - indznits el arrorj nerin kopit hamematutyun - La'i vorosh volferist ner - ov minj hima "ogtvum" e der - stanum $$$ teghist el chi sharjvum - "yolla" e gnum - vorosh@ ogtvetsin - hajaxetsin dprots - halansaran - gorts gtan hamategh ashxatetsin - hima azat en ankax - voroshn el der s@pasum en amen amis ..... sa el yerevi te jamanakavor yerrevuyt e Anush jan - himnakan $$$ ugharkorner@ tatik papiknern en - n@rants Yerkar kyanq - sakayn n@ranq el haverj chen aprelu - mi or et $$ e kangnelu - de tesnem irents barekamin ov e $$$ amen amis tlu ... shat qcher@ - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantom22 Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 I had only one relative in Armenia and he died many years ago. He went there during the 1918-1920 Armenian Republic and lived out his life there. Most of our relatives were massacred. The remnants wholeheartedly embraced the West. Even those of us with no relatives in Armenia send money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Artaxias, I question the motives of anybody who channels ideas into a tunnel and expects people to follow blindly, anyone who uses selective historiography (that's being generous) is championing the likes of Justin McCarthy. People who give themselves permission to shape history as if it were a play-dough are desperate, at best. You can get any "source" to back up a point, and here we are served with a name of an individual, , who along with two others, a French and a German Jew, “invented” Pan-Turanism. And as a source we are given non-other than a proud Zionist to back up a point, while conveniently neglecting Ziya Gökalp, for whom Dadrian leaves no doubt as being the main personality behind the idea of Turanism, who essentially was the Turkish equivalent of Joseph Goebbels. The main reason for this is to give prominence to Jewish “invention” to be able to say "see, see what Jews did to us". The rise of Turkish nationalism was ripe to espouse Gokalp’s ideology of “Islam and modern technology” and how to marry the Islamic/Turkish traditions within the demands of modernity and integration with Europe, in fact he was at the opinion that Turkey should not be European and to keep the Turkish identity strong 1) they should look East instead of West [i.e. pan-Turanian expansion], 2) clear the Empire of unwanted Christian elements, Armenians being the primary target. Arminius Vambery, on the other hand, called the “oriental pimp” by the British for his extortionist exploits, was a so-called “orientalist” who was after one thing only and that was how to get himself filthy rich. And our Vergiinne wants to vindicate Turkish guilt for a low life nobody like Vambery. By now Armenian historians, whom we have all come to respect, would have picked up a thing or two in implicating Jewish plots in the planning and executing the elimination of the Armenians, as Anoush would have us to believe. David Ben-Gurion was also a member of the Young Turk movement and it would be inconceivable to think that he, along with other Jews, did not work for the establishment of Israel. The pie was up for grabs. I can just see the joy among today’s followers of Ziya Gökalp's ideology, the Grey Wolves in particular, laughing their brains out for the vindication of their "father" and thinking “suckers!!!!”. style_images/master/snapback.png Don't forget, David Ben Gurion was an honorary member of the Teskilat-i Mahsusa ("Special Organisation") as were other Jewish activists along with Mahatma Gandhi, Jawharalal Nehru and most of the important members of the Indian Congress Party. Of course their role was a purely symbolic one. It was meant to generate positive publicity and lobbying effort on behalf of the Ottoman Empire. Also to use anti-British sentiments by recruiting such prominent people for their own interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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