Kingdom Of Heaven

[Dave]

http://www.kingdomofheavenmovie.com/

 

What do you think about this movie? It looks pretty good, plus it's made by Riddley Scott, the one who made Gladiator.

[Accelerated]

I think I had mentioned it in the movie section before. Been following its development of a little while now, and from the reviews I have read it seems like its going to be just as good as Gladiator but with one big flaw: Orlando Bloom. He just doesnt have the presence and is a one dimentional actor. Will be seeing the movie this Sunday....will write a review afterward.

[Dave]

Does the character ''Guy de Lusignan'' have anything to do with the Armenians? Probably...

 

Maybe the Armenians will make an appearance in the film. There was an Armenian quarter in Jerusalem and in other cities in the Levant.

 

The Crusader Periods 1099–1187, 1229–1244

In 1009 the Fatamid ruler Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah demolished the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, an act that would help light the spark of the Crusades. Pope Urban II called on Christians throughout Europe to unite and drive out the Seljuk "infidels" who had been harassing and suppressing the Christians trying to live in and pass through the Holy Land. The Pope's call was taken up and the heavily armored crusaders set off across Europe, through the Balkans, past the Byzantine Empire and even wandered in sight of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia on their way to Jerusalem. Although the Catholic crusaders did not eliminate their co-religionists they brought a mandate that Jerusalem would be "Latin". The Armenians at this time had acquired much of the land in today’s Armenian quarter and by 1165 had finished constructing St. James Cathedral which became the most important building of the quarter and remains so today. It was about this same time that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was given its modern shape.

 

The Armenian quarter itself, centered around St. James, also included housing and one holy Christian site, the prison of Jesus. Only the southern part of the area described as the Armenian Quarter today was actually inhabited by Armenians at this time. At this time the Quarter became dominated by non-Armenian churches including the Church of St. Thomas in the southern area, a Greek Church in the north part of the quarter, the Church of St. James Intercisus in the extreme north near David’s Street and the Church of St. Mark bordering today’s Jewish Quarter. As yet another testament to the steadfastness of the Armenian community is that the only church still remaining in the hands of the same owners from this time is the complex of St. James Cathedral. The majority of the other churches from the Crusader period have become mosques, houses or been turned over to other Christian orders. At the same time the Armenians came to possess for a short time the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, leaving the Patriarch Abraham IV’s (in office 1205–1218) name carved on the front door of the church.

 

One must remark that the Armenians proved themselves more welcome in Jerusalem due to their not being belligerents in the wars against the Muslim powers of the day. The Crusades had been a Catholic affair. Likewise the continuing war against the Orthodox power of Byzantium and the inheritor of that power, the Russians, meant that Muslims were suspicious of the Catholic and Orthodox interests in Jerusalem. However Armenia had long before ceased to be independent, so although a million or more Armenians lived in eastern Anatolia (modern Turkey) they posed no political military challenge to the Muslim Mamluks or Ottomans.

 

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Quarter

[Accelerated]

The Armenians did intermarry with the Crusader nobility, and its likelly that Guy and even King Baldwin have Armenian blood, but I doubt this would be mentioned - there is no reason for it.

[Accelerated]

Guy Lusignan - recent arrival from France, so he had no Armenian blood and became King of Jerusalem through marriage

 

King Baldwin IV - father King Amalric (half-Armenian), mother Agnes of Edessa ((Joscelin II grandfather half-Armenian, cant find any info on grand-mother, but it is likelly she was Armenian also). Which makes Kind Baldwin IV a little over half-Armenian

[Dave]

The duduk is used in the movie.

[Accelerated]

im not surprised, since Gladiator I've heard it, in one form or another, in at least half-dozen Hollywood productions.

[Dave]

Yes, but compared to other movies, the duduk was used a lot.

[Accelerated]

so I take it you've seen the movie. What did you think of it?

[Dave]

Well, it was very good. It was pretty much what I had expected. The story was good, but unrealistic (A blacksmith from some French village becomes the defender of Jerusalem? Come on...) The actors were great, but Orlando Bloom didn't have good facial expressions. When he is sad, it's the same face. When he's in bed with Sybilla, it's the same face. When he speaks, it is still the same face, etc. The battle scenes were all well-presented. The music was very good. It featured European and Middle-Eastern tunes (what you would expect in a Crusader movie), the music during battles was great.

 

The only time I was dissapointed, was when Crusader and Islamic armies clashed, but the fighting was not shown.

 

The movie gives us a message - that many different races or cultures (Muslims, Jews, Christians) can live side by side in the Kingdom of Heaven, Palestine.

If only it was true...

 

The Christians are depicted as stupid, bad, and rutheless and the Arabs are depicted as wise, good, and benevolent. This might be true in some extent, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. It's as if the makers only trusted Arabic sources.

The hero, Balian of Ibelin (Orlando Bloom) is an atheistic person who ironically defies religion.

 

 

All in all, a good watch.

[Bakersfieldian]

Thanks,

 

Saved me from wasting my time and money.

 

 

 

Well, it was very good. It was pretty much what I had expected. The story was good, but unrealistic (A blacksmith from some French village becomes the defender of Jerusalem? Come on...) The actors were great, but Orlando Bloom didn't have good facial expressions. When he is sad, it's the same face. When he's in bed with Sybilla, it's the same face. When he speaks, it is still the same face, etc. The battle scenes were all well-presented. The music was very good. It featured European and Middle-Eastern tunes (what you would expect in a Crusader movie), the music during battles was great.

 

The only time I was dissapointed, was when Crusader and Islamic armies clashed, but the fighting was not shown.

 

The movie gives us a message - that many different races or cultures (Muslims, Jews, Christians) can live side by side in the Kingdom of Heaven, Palestine.

If only it was true...

 

The Christians are depicted as stupid, bad, and rutheless and the Arabs are depicted as wise, good, and benevolent. This might be true in some extent, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. It's as if the makers only trusted Arabic sources.

The hero, Balian of Ibelin (Orlando Bloom) is an atheistic person who ironically defies religion.

All in all, a good watch. 

style_images/master/snapback.png

[Dave]

I think it was better than Troy. Bakersfieldian if you're not going to watch because of the movie's take on history... Alexander tried to be historically accurate, but wasn't enjoyable. Edited May 8, 2005 by Dave

[Accelerated]

I just saw it....

 

Generally what Dave said was spot on, I just disagree on the following,

 

The Christians are depicted as stupid, bad, and rutheless and the Arabs are depicted as wise, good, and benevolent.

 

it would probably be more accurate to say that SOME Christians (ie. Templars) are depicted as stupid, bad, and ruthless and Saladin is depicted as wise, good and benevolent. And this is also where I was most disapointed with the movie: their portrayal of the Templars. I understand they had to dumb down the plot (an illiterate blacksmith bringing prosperity to the land, commanding thousands into battle, being offered the hand of a queen etc. etc. ) and alter it to make it practical for a movie to have some closure, but the Templars are demonised for no reason, I mean they could have attributed the war to Guys personal ambition and Reynalds greed and it would have been more historically correct. It also didnt make sense when Balian walked into Jerusalem and Templars were being publicly hanged for 'killing Muslims', and a few scenes later a bunch of them attack a Muslim caravan?

 

Overall it was pretty good, but as has been mention Bloom was badly miscast (is that the term? ) To me it was better than Alexander, a little better than Troy but not as good as Gladiator.

Edited May 8, 2005 by Accelerated

[Dave]

The movie makes the Chrisitans look back, because it makes it look like they were the first ones to make the move against Muslims. This is not true. We all know that the Crusades started in order to help the Byzantines against the Turkish hordes of Central Anatolia. But unfortunately, one of the Crusades (4th Crusade?) went wrong, and Constantinople was conquered from the Byzantines. Even though they took back the city later on, they were never able to recover and face the Ottoman Turks. When the Lusignans took control of Lesser Armenia, problems between Catholics and Apostolics started. This caused the weakening and demise of Armenia when the Turko-Egyptian Mamelukes attacked.

 

Even though Crusading was a nice idea initially, in the end, the Crusaders became more of a nuisance for the Byzantines and Oriental Christians.

 

The Muslim hatred of Christians also started after the Crusades.

[vava]

I took the liberty of moving this thread to Perfoming Arts, rather than the Sports Forum

 

Oh, and don't forget, we have a Movie Review Thread as well....

[Tommmmmmy]

Did any of you know that King Baldwin was portrayed by Edward Norton? I found out only recently.

[Zartonk]

Im wondering if Cilicia or The Gates will be mentioned. But anyways, it looks like my kind of flick! Star Wars whom?!

[Stormig]

I wasn't overly impressed by it. It was OK. Corny with the "kingdom of conscience"... And to claim that Christians were shown as cruel is a bit simplistic. Yes, they were cruel, because most of them were ignorant newcomers from lush, green Europe, seeking things other than salvation. And, no, not all were cruel because of the actions of a few. To strike a brush on the movie like that is like Turks branding Egoyan's movie Ararat as anti-Turkish or Armenians claiming Egoyan is a self-hating Armenian because he shows Armenian youth engaging in incest. Don't be such nit-pickers.

[Anonymouse]

Well, it was very good. It was pretty much what I had expected. The story was good, but unrealistic (A blacksmith from some French village becomes the defender of Jerusalem? Come on...) The actors were great, but Orlando Bloom didn't have good facial expressions. When he is sad, it's the same face. When he's in bed with Sybilla, it's the same face. When he speaks, it is still the same face, etc. The battle scenes were all well-presented. The music was very good. It featured European and Middle-Eastern tunes (what you would expect in a Crusader movie), the music during battles was great.

 

From this we can deduce that if Orlando Bloom were taking a dump and severely constipated he would still have the same face.

[Accelerated]

From this we can deduce that if Orlando Bloom were taking a dump and severely constipated he would still have the same face.

 

Most likelly, yes.