Sardarabad: Was It That Important?

[Accelerated]

....just been reading up on the topic on the web, and came across THIS site. Some interesing extracts:

 

Cut off from the outside world, the Armenians resisted heroically, routed the Turkish forces near Karakilissé and Sardarabad (May 22‑28)(1918)) and inflicted heavy losses on them.

 

despite this...

 

Seven days after the declaration of independence, on June 4, 1918, a treaty consisting of 14 articles was signed between the Armenian Republic and Ottoman Turkey. Through this treaty the Turks became masters of an important section of Russian Armenia. Armenia was not allowed to have an army, and any force needed for maintaining internal security and order was to be supplied by the Turks, who also retained the right to march through Armenia at any time that "military circumstances" dictated. In eastern Armenia certain cities and provinces were left to the Turks and the Azerbaijanis.

 

This was the independence of May 28th which the Armenian people had declared "with apprehension." The Turks immediately occupied the delineated boundaries and held positions about 7 kilometers from Erevan and only 10 kilometers from Etchmiadzin. The muzzles of Turkish guns were turned towards the capital of Armenia. Thus the Turks had established direct communication with the Azerbaijan Tatars. They cut off all supplies from coming into Armenia, and famine followed the newly acquired independence.

 

untill...

 

On October 30, 1918, the victorious Entente Powers forced Turkey to sign a capitulation, and the German surrender followed on November 11th.

 

....and the Turks were forced to return to the boundaries outlined at Brest-Litovsk. So I guess, the question is: did it really matter, since the ROA government effectivelly capitulated a couple weeks after the battle took place?

Edited March 31, 2005 by Accelerated

[Nazarian]

You never know what would have happened without Sardarapat and Gharakilisa (modern Vanadzor city) battles.

[shaunt]

Prof Hovannisian touched on that issue last quarter. According to him, even though the Turks were forced to retreat, there was no way they could have been defeated.

 

He said the victory was exaggerated without actually saying that.

Edited April 1, 2005 by shaunt

[Twilight Bark]

Prof Hovannisian touched on that issue last quarter. According to him, even though the Turks were forced to retreat, there was no way they could have been defeated.

 

He said the victory was exaggerated without actually saying that.

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From what little I know:

The victory is not exaggerated; it was indeed an unlikely, emotionally meaningful victory, showing that Armenians, when motivated enough, could fight off a much superior Turkish army.

The exaggeration comes when it is supposed that it had any effect whatsoever on the political or diplomatic fate of the Armenians. All had been decided before that "victory", and a token Armenian "state" was what Turks considered in their interest for the very short term. The battle of Sardarabad did not force them to recognize the Armenian state. One theory is that the Armenian state was basically engineered by the Turks to show that Armenians did not disappear ( "See they have a state; they are fine") in case they got badgered by the west about a complete annihilation of Armenians (although the western diplomats privately couldn't care less about what was to them a pesky, useless people, their public opinion was still sufficiently interested in Armenians for it to have appeared to the Turks as a potential diplomatic problem). It was cheap insurance, considering that they were confident they could overrun the new "state" whenever they felt like it at a more opportune time (i.e. after negotiations with the western powers were over).

[Accelerated]

One theory is that the Armenian state was basically engineered by the Turks to show that Armenians did not disappear ( "See they have a state; they are fine") in case they got badgered by the west about a complete annihilation of Armenians

 

....interesting. TB, is it also fair to say, that it was the chance deployment of the nearby Russian/Red Army that stopped the Turks from completelly occupying Armenia and putting the rest of us to the sword?

[gamavor]

....interesting. TB, is it also fair to say, that it was the chance deployment of the nearby Russian/Red Army that stopped the Turks from completelly occupying Armenia and putting the rest of us to the sword?

 

 

No. The Red Army was nowhere close to Armenia at that time. The Russians with tails between their legs went off the fighting "business".

Recently, there was a very interesting Russian documentary examining the Armenian Genocide from a Russian perspective and the Russian state archives.

Lenin sold out Russia (and subsequently Armenia) to the German Kaiser. Brest-Litovsk treaties, as well as all other following international agreements between Russia and Turkey were pre-destined.

 

The documentary speaks about a sum paid in cash by the Germans to Lenin.

[Accelerated]

No. The Red Army was nowhere close to Armenia at that time.

 

well, not according to the link I posted in my first thread, in November 1920 around the time the treaty was signed with Karabekir....

 

While the situation on the Turkish front was so critical there was a second antagonist beyond. This was the Bolshevik movement at the frontier of Azerbaijan, spreading toward the southeast, a serious menace to the tottering Republic. In fact, the Bolsheviks were actually at the northern shore of Lake Sevan. In the districts of Ghazakh and Karavanserai, the Armenian peasants had risen in arms and were playing an important role in the downfall of the government. A mixed Bolshevik army entered Armenia through the mountain passes of Aghstafa, were reinforced in November, and marched into Itchévan, Shamshatin and Dilijan; on the 28th, Karavanserai fell; on the 29th the rebels declared Armenia a Soviet Republic while they had not yet captured Erevan. The news was telegraphed immediately to Lenin. The leaders of the Red Army were Anastas Mikoyan and Kirov; Hovhannes Bagramyan, a young cavalry officer was accompanying them.

 

...might also want to read the bit titled 'The Final Period'.

 

Lenin sold out Russia (and subsequently Armenia) to the German Kaiser

 

Lenin, or Trotski to be more exact had no choice when he signed Brest-Litovsk. The Germans were threatening to resume the war and the Russian Army with the exception of a few Red Guards was non-existant. In any case the Treaty of Versaille nullified any agreement made at Brest-Litovsk.