khodja Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 TB, I'm sure that if you contact Fundacio Gulbenkian or Mrs. Simone of AGBU you may hit pay dirt for your study. They fund many Armenian projects. It should prove to be worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:These Polynesian/Eurasian women are so much more natural than our Armenians mannequins.Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:I think that A/B brings more light into the "Armenian Room" that anyone living today. He is like the light at the end of a dark tunnel. His detrators are like the demons one will encounter as they reach toward the light of heaven when one passes to the next world.Perhaps you are mistaking the flames of hell with the light at the end of the tunnel. Perhaps one is likely to overshoot and end up in hell instead of heaven, in his rush to get out of the misery you (and a/b) describe.Out of the frying pan, into the flame, so to speak. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 TB, It has been said that one man's heaven is another man's hell. I agree with the majority of what Ara states. Could it be due to the influence of the Catholic Church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 8, 2001 Report Share Posted November 8, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:TB, I agree with the majority of what Ara states. The problem is not with the "majority" of what he says. In that case, I also agree with the "majority" of what he says. He fills his posts with impossible-to-disagree-with platitudes that everyone knows (or should know), and slips in appallingly inaccurate or unfair statements, often involving Armenians. He uses this cheap, propagandist tactic on purpose, presumably to extract some personal satisfaction. I find it perverted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 TB, What is it about A/B that gets so under your skin? You have self-appointed yourself as the watchdog over him both here and in the other Armenian web forums. What is it about his bark that you find so dangerous? You follow him around with a stick and immediately start beating down everything he says. I find a kernel of truth in what he says about our community. When you speak of his unfairness to Armenians, my reaction is that you must be one of the "enforcers" because I too have found many of his observations to be true. I believe that you are allowing your Armenian pride to cloud your objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 TB, In view of my last posting, do you consider A/B a "shoonig" deserving to be beaten with your stick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Winston, I agree more with MJ than I do with you. A racist is fundamentally nasty - however, neither a/b nor Steve are like that. And I agree with the observations bit... And neither get all prejudiced about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 TB, MJ et.al., I find your fascination with Ara to be very revealing. If he is the buffoon you claim he is, why do you continually return to discussing him like an insect to a flame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThornyRose Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Khodja, MJ does not think a/b is a buffoon. In fact, they are close friends (from what I gather)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Maybe A/B has given up on the chance that the shock will do the "patient" any good, but keeps up the shock on the outside chance that long after he is gone our progeny will realize that he had the "cure" but no one listened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose:Winston, I agree more with MJ than I do with you. A racist is fundamentally nasty - however, neither a/b nor Steve are like that. And I agree with the observations bit... And neither get all prejudiced about anything.I disagree that racsists have to be fundementally nasty. I have always considered my parents to be good people - but fundementally they possess what i consider to be very racist attitudes about people and groups of people. (My motrher is very typically Armenian in this regard - IMO - just like those who have commented how Armenians consider themselves so aryan and look down on all the "darkies" - additionally she is very judgemental concerning "other" Armenians (those not from Istanbul - or at least those not as well off financially or as "cultured" as she [and, of course - "us"...LOL]...etc)In the same manner (or perhaps in a differnt manner - but still fitting the description - IMO) I see Ara as certainlat racist - almost with every post he makes (its not always an incorrect [or "bad"] view - IMO - just it is his perspective (as I see it) - almost by definition. Steve, on the other hand, has - IMO - expressed similarly racist based views and generalizations (with decidedly negative connotations). I have accused him of racism in the past - but I cannot say for sure he is racist - because perhaps we all hoild some views such as this - some may be less inhibited in expressing them then others however. Generally I do't like it when someone (ussually its a Turk) attacks Armenians from a racist perspective (I also dislike the same regarding the Turks from misinformed Armenians..regardless of the historical record...). While Ara does such - I think his intentions are (for the most part) good...as for Steve - I think he was just letting off steam. (still some of the comments did quite upset me at the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted November 9, 2001 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:MJ,During the first part of my life I was totally "cured" in the eyes of the Armenian community. I was a good boy who went to church every Sunday, went to Armenian school every Saturday, listened to my parents and teachers. I bought all the Armenian myths. I even finally married an Armenian girl from a prominent Republican family. I kept to myself the things that happened at the church. I did everything to please my parents and nothing to please myself. I was proud Armenian, even thinking that we were a "chosen people." I now know that I was "diseased." But I have been cured from this disease. How peculiar that you see me, the cured one, as diseased. Could it be that the majority of the Armenian community are the diseased ones?I will not comment here about the "majority of the Armenian community." But I can tell you that some of us, unlike you, have not grown up to be the vegetables you have described your self to be. Now if you feel that your life at your younger ages has been a waist, that is a personal problem. Another personal problem of yours is that your adult life also appears to be full of wasteful attitudes and incurable set of mind - the stamp of your self described youth is on your forehead.So instead of provide recipes to others, why don't you go and start over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 MJ, Martin, I am a very proud "VEGETABLE", since I revel in vegetables and will be imminently opening a restaurant which serves only these. For me the word "vegetable" is an honor. Thank You. It is the arrogant attitude your persona and that of so many Armenians exudes which not only drives so many of us out of the community but creates frictons with other peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted November 9, 2001 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 "Hovhaness," There is also another choice at your disposal. You may ask Dr. Kevorkian to help you. Then, given the "Hindu" you are, you may have a good chance to be reincarnated as a cucumber. Imagine the joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 Martin, No need for Dr. Kevorkian, I have been cured of the Armenian "disease." When I visited Armenia, the Russian border guards pulled me over. They grilled me for 1/2 hour, not believing that I could be the person of my passport. Persons in Armenia and otherwise at my age look much older. You can make all the jokes you want, but I have found a better way. On the tour bus a young Armenian woman who had befriended me, abruptly got up and moved to another seat when I told her that I was a vegetarian. She assumed that I was Hindu and stated that she did not approve of Armenians who were not Christian. You are a defender of the Armenian traditional way of life. I sometimes wonder how "Armenian" these traditions are. How much have we borrowed from other peoples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:TB,What is it about A/B that gets so under your skin? It is plural, not singular:Arrogance, hypocrisy, self-pity, self-hate, hate for others, hate for critics, bad style, monologue, spiritual shallowness, intellectual sterility.All of these would be easily ignored, were it not for the unfortunate fact that Mr. Baliozian is regarded as an "intellectual". I find that embarassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:TB,You have self-appointed yourself as the watchdog over him both here and in the other Armenian web forumsOf course I am "self-appointed". Would you prefer someone appointed by a government body or a "party central committee"?As for "here and other Armenian forums". Surely you jest. I did not post any analyses of his posts here. I just posted a series of rational analyses of his posts on Armenian Cafe for a while. That is the total sum of my "following him with a stick". If you have a specific problem with any particular analysis of his logical and moral inconsistencies, please elaborate.[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ][ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:TB,When you speak of his unfairness to Armenians, my reaction is that you must be one of the "enforcers" because I too have found many of his observations to be trueIt is this kind of illogic that permeates the "original" (i.e. vintage a/b) part of his postings. Because I disagree with him I must either be some sort of an SS enforcer, or a foolish simpleton. Is it so hard to see the absurity of that?Again, it's not that a lot of what he writes are not true. Most of what he writes are painfully obvious to many educated (and even many not-so-well-educated) Armenians. The collossal problem with his writings is that he sneaks in completely unjustifiable nonsense into a fluff of platitudes pilfered from other "real" thinkers. The danger lies in the possibility of an unfortunate reader swallowing the whole package hook, line and sinkers because the writer is oh-so-well-known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 TB, I can ascertain from your latest posting that A/B has accomplished EXACTLY what he wishes. He has gathered a cult following and thus is continually sticking his finger in the eyes of his detractors. The effort expended due to this older, physically ill, writer living in relative poverty astounds me. Reminds me of the story of Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted November 9, 2001 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:Martin,No need for Dr. Kevorkian, I have been cured of the Armenian "disease." When I visited Armenia, the Russian border guards pulled me over. They grilled me for 1/2 hour, not believing that I could be the person of my passport. Persons in Armenia and otherwise at my age look much older. You can make all the jokes you want, but I have found a better way. On the tour bus a young Armenian woman who had befriended me, abruptly got up and moved to another seat when I told her that I was a vegetarian. She assumed that I was Hindu and stated that she did not approve of Armenians who were not Christian. You are a defender of the Armenian traditional way of life. I sometimes wonder how "Armenian" these traditions are. How much have we borrowed from other peoples?"Hovhanness,"I think I may find the discussions with you intellectually more stimulating (that is on a relative scale) after your reincarnation as a cucumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 quote:Originally posted by khodja:TB,I can ascertain from your latest posting that A/B has accomplished EXACTLY what he wishes. He has gathered a cult following and thus is continually sticking his finger in the eyes of his detractors. The effort expended due to this older, physically ill, writer living in relative poverty astounds me. Reminds me of the story of Jesus.Dear Khodja,Are your logic circuits on? Because I don't want to form a negative impression of you if you are feeling sleepy, dizzy or not-up-to-thinking-clearly today.Take care of yourself.Best,TBP.S. I would like to terminate this silly and sterile discussion if you don't mind. I wish my presence in this forum to be associated with positive, not negative, things. If I can cheer up a young college student like Harut with Sumerian liguistics or some such, that is a much worthier endeavor than discussing nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khodja Posted November 9, 2001 Report Share Posted November 9, 2001 TB, Must we lower ourselves to insults? I am not sleepy, dizzy or unalert today. I respect your decision not to carry this line of discussion further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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