Hye Forum used to be a good place

[ThornyRose]

What? Who said that? I do?

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by MJ:


Pew... And I though you where the God of Knowledge, or at least a God of Knowledge...

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Well perhaps I know a bit more then I let on sometimes...

"Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom,
(Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz)*
Wisdom is not music
Music is the best"

Frank Zappa

* and he's dead (Frank too unfortunatly)

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: THOTH ]

[MJ]

Thorny,

 

Nothing directly. Just the imporper conduct is imporper no matter how it is packaged.

[MJ]

Kazza,

I guess the two of us think in two different plattitudes without a communication bridge. Otherwise I don't know how to explain our constant miscommunication.

[MJ]

Common, Thoth,

 

Open the Gates of Sesame.

 

P.S. Talking about humor, I wouldv'e appreciated a little smile in your previous posting.

[Kazza]

It's Ok MJ I'm around tommorrow. The "communication Bridge" doesn't seem to be there, I'm willing to build MY bridges.

[ThornyRose]

And just what is Steve's improper conduct supposed to be if it is competing with Jerky-vore's racist crap? I think that your trying to compare the two is a gross exaggeration - though "exaggeration" is not the right word. For there to be an exaggeration, there has to be at least a stump - and there's not! They aren't people that can be categorized together in any way, save for being humans.

[MJ]

You keep building those bridges, Kazza. When you are done, let me know, and I gladly would cross over.

[MJ]

I haven't constituted it as a matter of relative magnitude, but rather absolute. And there is a stump, I think, somewhere in the Hye Forum.

[THOTH]

Thorny,

 

While I agree with you that Steve/BTC is not in the same category as those also mentioned - I must add that he has sometimes shown that he is very quick to flame away - and has - IMO - shown a racist (generalizing) attatude towards Armenians (and other Anatolians...Kurds come to mind) on occasion. I'm not sayig he has done anything to warrent banning or such - or even comparsion with the more lunkhead elements - in fact he is a great asset and contributor - but he is certainly no saint either. MJ is just taking another little dig - he really can't help himself (it seems)...I say we forgive him on this (and these) minor slights...

[MJ]

Thank you, Thoth. You are very generous.

[ThornyRose]

Winston, is a/b racist/generalizing, too?

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
Thoth,

The political dimensions of the Armenian community are not clear-cut. In America, affiliation with a certain Armenian faction does not necessarily correspond with affiliation with one of the American poltical parties.

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Understood - though I know that the ANC and AGBU etc have certain specific political ties etc (I don't remember who is with who etc -

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
In any case my concern and focus is not on Armenian politics but American politics. I grew up hearing from the circle I grew up with about how bad the Dasknaks were, especially the assassination of Archbishop Tourian in 1933. When I became an adult, I attended a variety of Armenian functions. One of my cousins, realizing this stated to me "What the hell you doing at a function at the Dashnak church?" I ignored him. When my mother became ill in her later years it was not her ADL friends who were the kindest to her but a Dashnak couple.

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I have reletives and aquaintences active in the Armenian Church and in Armenian-American politics and I hear this kind of thing - this church is with this party etc etc - I think this is so very sad and unfortunate. How could it get this way? What can Armenians be thinking. I also hear about all the politicing and showmanship gowing on etc and am very glad to not be involved.

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
To understand the divisions, I suggest that you read about the formation of the Armenian parties and how they play into the history of the Armenians since the late 19th century.

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Again I know some of this history - but not the dettails as to how it transfered into the religious sphere etc. I know about the Dashnak influence here in the States (and members of my family were once very involved in this group) and the Ramgavars etc - but again haven't really paid attention to who is with who these days. Do you have any recommended reading to enlighten me (not sure if I will bother though...to some degree i think I understand enough...to be disgusted with it)

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
As for the American political scene it is critical to understand that the Republican party od today is not what it was approximately 20 years ago. It has been usurped by a gang of Christian zealots who twist the words of Jesus for their own political ends. They are hell-bent on infiltrating every aspect of American life. They want to so-called Christianize America in their image and disenfranchize everyone who does not agree with them. The American nation was not founded upon these principles, but upon one of religious freedom.

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I agree completely with your last point. However I think the Republican party (20th Century) has always had these elements. And don't forget McCarthy was a Republican...I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat BTW. I ussually vote the lesser of two evils in elections (or third party candidate - no matter who it is - I have never voted for a major party candidate in a Presidential election BTW). Ussually I see the lesser of the evils as the Democrat (but only because we are such a wealthy nation and can afford to be wasteful - IMO)..the reasons you give (religeous right & social naziism), and environmental concerns ussually drive my vote...

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
My instincts tell me that MJ's Republican bent is more in line with this type of thinking than fidscal matters.

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I don't see it..(at all)

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
Armenains were massacred in Turkey for geo-politcal reasons, but there was a clear religious dsicrimination element to the mentality of the executioners.

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Yes of course - very different though (IMO) - and only a tool/excuse - not the underlying rational. CUP used the religion - they were not believers - not at all...

quote:

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Originally posted by khodja:
When see Armenian embracing similar mentalities, I can not sit idly by and say nothing. Waht set me off with MJ was his adultation of rousas John Rushdooney.

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I don't know this Rushdooney - nor do I understand your issue with MJ in this regard. And even if MJ is a fan of this guy - so what? Isn't it what MJ states himself and does what we should judge him on. Sure he is harsh - and has been to you - but it seems to me that you two probably agree on a lot more then you disagree on - and I think that you have miscaracterized him - really. Its funny (in a tragic sense) how you both seem to be pinnig the same sort of negative conotations onto ewach other (it seems to me) - when in fact I doubt that either warrents them...

[THOTH]

quote:

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Originally posted by Thorny Rose:


Winston, is a/b racist/generalizing, too?

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Yes of course - very much so! And to some degree it lies at the root of where he is often wrong (IMO). Just the same he is presenting his observations of behaviors that (at the very least) have some kernal of truth. And while so does Steve (I can believe him concerning the Kurds for instance - ad even to some degree Armenians - but he takles it further [generalizing] then i ever would) - and perhaps we should take note (of the validity of some of these observations) as well - however, in each case when it becomes personal, the comments start to say more about the originator then those being commented on...(IMO) - for both of them...

[MJ]

Noooo.... He is just a shock therapist. Only somewhere on the way he has dropped the therapy, and all that is left is the shock. "Shock without therapy, it is!"

[Twilight Bark]

Good description. Unfortunately even the shock is usually misguided. I would forgive a/b for not offering therapy if the "illnesses" that he diagnoses were nothing but syptoms of underlying problems, or not real problems at all. He sometimes comes close to spotting one of the true causes of problems, namely the lack of interest in reading and intellectual enrichment on the part of "ordinary" Armenians. However, even then one gets the feeling that he is lamenting about lack of readership ("Darn it! I can't make a living off of you stupid, ignorant simpletons" sums up his apparent sentiment on the matter), rather than about its wider implications. Combine this with a big dose of an already strange combination of self-pity and arrogance, and you get a miserably small signal-to-noise ratio from the old man. He is well-read, but simply lacks the necessary intellectual and spiritual depth. And I doubt very much that he is well-intentioned.

Sad,
TB

[MJ]

TB,

I like the sound of this expression. It makes me more optimistic for the future of this forum.

[khodja]

Thorny,

 

Gamavor revealed this in one of her earlier postings.

[ThornyRose]

Is?

[MJ]

"Hovhanness,"

You are truly incurable. I would like to help you as a fellow forum member. Know Dr. Kevorkian?

[khodja]

MJ,

 

During the first part of my life I was totally "cured" in the eyes of the Armenian community. I was a good boy who went to church every Sunday, went to Armenian school every Saturday, listened to my parents and teachers. I bought all the Armenian myths. I even finally married an Armenian girl from a prominent Republican family. I kept to myself the things that happened at the church. I did everything to please my parents and nothing to please myself. I was proud Armenian, even thinking that we were a "chosen people." I now know that I was "diseased." But I have been cured from this disease. How peculiar that you see me, the cured one, as diseased. Could it be that the majority of the Armenian community are the diseased ones?

[khodja]

These Polynesian/Eurasian women are so much more natural than our Armenians mannequins.

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Khodja,

With a modest perceptual resolution one may differentiate "fascination" and "irritation". I am irritated by Mr. Baliozian because he uses his stature (deserved or not) as some sort of an "intellectual" to mislead and confuse his readers. A rational analysis of his posts reveals that his agenda is largely personal, and has nothing to do with concern for others. I do not respond to every irritating person on every forum. However, since he does real damage because of his "name recognition", I sometimes feel compelled to publicly dissect his nonsense.

TB

P.S. Your likening him to a flame is silly. And your likening me to an insect is duly noted.

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: Twilight Bark ]

[khodja]

I think that A/B brings more light into the "Armenian Room" that anyone living today. He is like the light at the end of a dark tunnel. His detrators are like the demons one will encounter as they reach toward the light of heaven when one passes to the next world.

[Twilight Bark]

Dear Khodja,
Your description of your earlier life resembles that of Mr. Baliozian. It is no coincidence that you can relate to what he expresses. The problem is that I do not believe such self-glorifying perspectives, or the constipated, goody-two-shoes behavior are as common among Armenians as a whole (all sections of the society, and all communities, in Armenia and the Diaspora) as you feel they are. Perhaps a scientifically conducted sociological research is in order. Can such a study be funded? This is not a rhetorical question.