Hye Forum used to be a good place

[MJ]

Don't feel so flattered, brother. Your name/characterization has been used in an allegoriuc sence.

[MJ]

How about TWB, then?

[Juggernaut]

quote

Your name/characterization has been used in an allegoriuc sence.

 

I think the right word is allegorical not 'allegoriuc'.

 

And btw, does 'MJ' stand for Mr Jejune?

[MosJan]

This is not nice !!!

Yekeq verch tanq iys muk'n u katvi xarin barekamner...

[ThornyRose]

For example, MJ, I don't see why you are so obsessed with Khodja when there are jerks like Jerky-vore preaching hate and making racist remarks. Why is he left alone on his ridiculous and slurred comments?

[khodja]

Thorny,

 

Gamavor is a girl!

[MJ]

You guys keep dragging me in on a day when I should not spend time in the Internet domain.

Just wanted to say that putting Ara's name in "." was a typo. I have been playing that game lately so often that just happened by a mistake.

 

Anyway, I will try to catch up with all of the posts addressed to me as soon as I can.

[MJ]

Wow! You really have learned to spell, haven't you? I commend your progress. Now I am more hopeful for your future.

[THOTH]

MJ/Khodja -

 

I must admit that I do not fully follow all of your differences (though do understand some certainly) and I am ignorant of many of the specifics of divisions (political & geographic) among Armenians (other than knowing that they do exist - not always why or what for in particular)...however - from both your responses to my tidbit about some of my best friends being Republican it is clear to me that you each miss (some of my) points as well. Could it be just my fault - me being too obtuse? Perhaps...BTW - the point you seem to miss is...humour...(no big deal? hm, is it?)

[MJ]

No, Thoth. I think I have understood you correctly. It is likely that I have been misunderstood. All I was trying to convey to you was that your emphasis on "partisan affiliation" and "cross-party" friendship was misplaced and irrelevant.

As to the humor... What else may be a better source of humor if not "Haovhannes."

[MJ]

Thorny,

With the same token, I think "Hovanness" has revealed in one of his earlier postings that he is an embrion, but just a very advanced one.

[Kazza]

I don't know, nor have I found anyone in my travels that does. Or Mabye MJ? Perhaps you could scatter a few peals of wisdom.

[MJ]

Thorny,

 

First, I am not obsessed with "Hovhanness," but rather the opposite.

 

I can deduce who are you referring to in your comment above. I can also understand that he is the person who has provoked such attitude towards him. I am not happy about his stance. I don't know what is he trying to achieve or what is he trying to neutralize. I don't even know what he thinks he is being able to achieve.

 

But the fact of the matter is that I know him personally, and I know him as a person. I know that he is a well educated, very informed and very reasonable person - a friend that one may enjoy to have. That's why I find myself in a very contradictory situation. It is always easier to "fight" a person who you don't know otherwise.

 

I think the face that he has decided to put in this forum is totally irrational and unjustified. Perhaps he hates Turks. OK. Nothing new about it in the Armenian domain, right? Perhaps he has reasons to do so. If so, there is nothing I can do to change it. Maybe you can?

 

Is your question why is he not banned from this forum? Perhaps for the same reason The Cat is not.

[MJ]

What is it, Kazza? Couldn't follow you.

[Kazza]

Hi Pilafhead. I think that scares a lot of people off. I see that most of the people online at a time (approx 8) are guests, or invisible members. Why they choose to remain invisible, or the guests and ex guests which register but never contribute, i think is a bit of a question. They like to see the interesting and intelligent discussions, often led by MJ and the others. But a lot of the like said in this thread before, don't become active , don't want to contribute, because they feel they don't "match up" to the heavy intellectual discussions. I personally think that is silly. A forum is there for the users and should make it what ever they choose. I think a bit of light chat/humour lightens up the pace and most users really appreciate it , but don't say anything. But I think the potential users feel this unspoken fear that if they don't have a lot of knowledge in certian areas to flaunt, their discussoins won't be valued, which I also think is nonsense, as we all have our strenghths and weaknesses. I think it makes the forum negative and nobody wants to be in a negative atmosphere. What one person could have knowledge about in certain areas, could help and give info, and other members ciuld give knowledge on other areas. Many of the people that are respected as "intellectual " did not come onto this forum, with the knowledge, but LEARNT from it. Ya get me

This is what you said, MJ.

They clearly invite a lot of resentment
from a lot of “accidental Armenians,” I mean the ethnics. Therefore, it is easy to figure out, I think, that I would receive more
resentment than anybody else in this forum. I have no problems who would contradict me with qualified arguments. You are saying
that some don’t have adequate mental capacity. So what do I do. I have tried to train them. If you think of it, Thorny , The Cat
and Ali also train them. Thanks, guys. But some don’t grow. Now, if they don’t have the capacity, let them stay “home.” The
Armenian issue is very complex.

Especially this.

I have tried to train them. If you think of it, Thorny , The Cat
and Ali also train them. Thanks, guys. But some don’t grow. Now, if they don’t have the capacity, let them stay “home.”

MJ, come ooon. You are known as a brainy man and I thought you were. And you do a lot of good on the forum, but. But this doesn't exactly do you the world of justice, does it? What are you saying? The rest of us poor, straight-from-the-woods "accidental armenians", who obviously don't have the MENTAL CAPACITY (wow) need these members to "train us?" train? We are not monkeys to be trained. I thought I was enjoying having all types of discussions with these members and learning from each other, but it seems I was being trained instead, thank you very much, for the enlightment!

Peeved from Tunbridge Wells.

[Kazza]

Sorry MJ, sorry you couldn't follow me. Mabye I need more traning. (natch) But what I was saying, after Thoth mentioned about not knowing the reason armenians divide themselves into little groups, was that nobody knew but was just taken as an age-old custom that was always there. I think that's what he was talking about/meant as well. I thought you might know more, or have done some research ABOUT the little reasons behind it.

[THOTH]

Hi Kazza,

 

Yes this was basically my point. I am ignorant of many of the specifics of these divisions (and how some of them play out in these forums among Armenians). This is one reason I am often hesitant to jump into Armenian forums (my ignorance of the internal politics etc)...and feel more at home in forums frequented by Turks and mixed audience - where I feel I can bring better perspective in the Turk - Armenian issues without getting caught up in the quagmire of Armenian politics. I'm sure that there are many Armenians much more aware of these issues (among Armenians) then I. I'm not sure I even want to know more really. Will my knowing more conceerning the specific disputes among Armenians lead to my being able to contribute any better (where it matters)? I don't really think so - so to some degree I have remained ignorant (and non-aligned) purposfly. I do see enough from Armenians - both here on the forums and within my own (Armenian) friends and family to disturb me quite enough (regarding the [reractionary and exclusivistic] tendencies among our people). It is such a shame to see - as we are at the same time a wonderful people. I fully understand MJ's frustrations (though sometimes I think they are misplaced..though admitadly i don't understand all of the nuances...). I also think that Ara Balozian is right on the mark in many cases - sure in a generalized way that may not be applicable in all cases (or even in the specific cases that he refers to) - but in general his observations should be taken to heart by all Armenians - the very least to warn us and remind us where not to let our tendencies hold sway...

[MJ]

Pew... And I though you where the God of Knowledge, or at least a God of Knowledge...

[Kazza]

See there you go. My point exactly, straight from the horses mouth. (I'm not saying you are a horse, Thoth ) I think it's SUCH a pity because that makes people remain ignorant, because they feel "**** it, won't even bother" On non-computer communities, you will find this intellectual so -far- up-you own-arse-to-see intellectual snobbery, SO much worse. Even my dad used to drive every one up the wall with it. I know how much that is important to them, and that's the best thing that nons-think of us. It's not a bad thing at all and may I say how proud that's a part of my heritage. But I think among armenians I think it's overdone, especially on the forums. it just happens every where you see anything armenian it's always got some sort of an intellectual element in it. On all the sites, journals, litreature, the first thing you see is boasting of how many degrees and doctorates the contributors have. The first thing.

Nobody actually ever said that ara wasn't coming out with good veiwpoints. I personally myself am amazed with the arguements he comes out with sometimes. And I think others are too. But At times I find that he takes certain points and becomes, ever so slighty, pedantic. (sorry!) Also takes points out of these points, blows them up, and expresses bitterness, that although he says it is, I'm not fully convinced it's REALLY about the armenian cause, but underlying issues in his own life. But armenians take all of it to heart as the armenian cause, I'll just have to dissagree? I don't think they should. .

P.S, you should have seen this forum around a year ago- most were against mixing with nonA's, marrying them, and everyone was ani turk. It's come a long way.

[Kazza]

Plus you were banned or on the brink of being banned, If you said anything against another memebrs wishes. Anyway, that's not my probelm, I shoudln't have even mentioned it, it's not important.

 

MJ, in my earlier post , I wasn't nesscesarliy barking at you, I just wanted to show you what I said and see it from my point of veiw.

[MJ]

Kazza,

Everything you said before was your opinion to which obviously you are entitled. But the last post of yours is a misleading statement, simply put. People have been banned or have been at the brink of being banned in this forum for their conduct, not becasue of "saying things against other members' wishes."

[Kazza]

MJ,

 

I think my opinion is right. But you are obviously entitled to whatever you are intitled, I can't force you too try and be open to what I think. Or what other people think.

[ThornyRose]

MJ, what does this have to do with Steve (or Steve to do with "improper conduct" [obviously Jerky-vore's problem])?

[khodja]

Thoth,

 

The political dimensions of the Armenian community are not clear-cut. In America, affiliation with a certain Armenian faction does not necessarily correspond with affiliation with one of the American poltical parties. In any case my concern and focus is not on Armenian politics but American politics. I grew up hearing from the circle I grew up with about how bad the Dasknaks were, especially the assassination of Archbishop Tourian in 1933. When I became an adult, I attended a variety of Armenian functions. One of my cousins, realizing this stated to me "What the hell you doing at a function at the Dashnak church?" I ignored him. When my mother became ill in her later years it was not her ADL friends who were the kindest to her but a Dashnak couple. To understand the divisions, I suggest that you read about the formation of the Armenian parties and how they play into the history of the Armenians since the late 19th century.

 

As for the American political scene it is critical to understand that the Republican party od today is not what it was approximately 20 years ago. It has been usurped by a gang of Christian zealots who twist the words of Jesus for their own political ends. They are hell-bent on infiltrating every aspect of American life. They want to so-called Christianize America in their image and disenfranchize everyone who does not agree with them. The American nation was not founded upon these principles, but upon one of religious freedom. My instincts tell me that MJ's Republican bent is more in line with this type of thinking than fidscal matters. Armenains were massacred in Turkey for geo-politcal reasons, but there was a clear religious dsicrimination element to the mentality of the executioners. When see Armenian embracing similar mentalities, I can not sit idly by and say nothing. Waht set me off with MJ was his adultation of rousas John Rushdooney.

[Kazza]

MJ, I like your posts and your contributions very much, which is WHY I was surprised by what you said earier, and also surprsed by your reaction to my latest post, which I found to be rather closed

 

But I think it's very sad, as a moderator, that you don't seem to understand what ALL the members have to contribute and say. I think that's not in the best interests.