Rubo

You are simply a miserable looser.Your last argument is in smoke!!

mj>I guess, where I am headed is a statement that not to assimilate, a nation has to have a purpose and has to believe in it strongly and passionately. And it has to be a worthy purpose to keep people away from “jumping out of the train.” I don’t think the preservation of the “past” and the “heritage” is such a worthy purpose. After all, what is old, frequently gets discarded. Argishti>Now we are in the muddy waters of bland relativism without clear objectives. Nations like individuals are by products of the “past” and “heritage” and you cannot build cohesive agenda without the past. Jews cannot exist without Judaism or Holocaust experience. Armenia likewise has its particular pasts that can never be discarded. What is discarded generally are the superficial and the transitory events and in individuals experiences. I agree that nation has to have a purpose but that very purpose is trapped in the past. Logically everything is in the past. As soon as you read this very massage is in the past so the purpose cannot be escaped from the past but one can argue relative merits of particular “pasts” and come to harmonious consensus.

Winning an argument with an Armenian at times takes more precedents then the content discussed all because one is not able to tolerate other views? mj sarcastic comments reminds me about individual frog pounds where more important thing is having fellow classmates to croak in unison. Armenian issues are not Armenian issues but another excuse for “fun” and “games” out of sheer boredom of existence, hey you might as well talk about Africa what is the point. It is all "fun" anyway.

For an Idiot serious discussion is equitable as fun For an idiot intellectual defeat is counteracted by insults and ridicules But hey idiots masquerading as proxy itelectuals is nothing knew Our history is full of them. When the Turks were marching on Armenian villages We had our pacifist intellectuals calling our people to put down their weapons and ask mercy and forgiveness from the Turks. Result? Further massacres. Now same morons proclaim that Armenian Genocide is not an issue for them anymore. How morally bankrupt must one be.

Joining Armenian forum is like joining a wolf pack. Either agree with the pack or be rejected. I stand on my two feet like our mountains and no fools can threaten me with sand. MJ you cowardly declined to debate on my points since your positions were dead wrong and shaky so you called the comedy crew. Good going but your continuous ridicules to me prove more then again your emptiness of your soul and character. No true Armenian can make fun of the genocide weather you care about it or not. You are nothing but cheap self-inflated charlatan. I know the routine now, go cry for moderators for help since you can not stand on your two feet.

I agree it is Humorous specially you Aghtchik got nothing to say and specially after mj> if the Genocide Recognition is becoming a political, academic, journalistic and commercial endeavor from one side, it is reasonable to expect or to tolerate, to the least, that its denial also may become such exercise? Argishti>You have not proved your statements with facts! Does neo-nazi Holocaust denial fair argument? According to your faulty logic, it is. Ask the Jews if they tolerate Holocaust deniers.

These are the pinnacle examples of Mr.mj intellectual capacity. You have not proven any of your arguments. Once again schizophrenia has taken over the active segment of the Hye Forum... It appears to me that it is a cyclical event... Why not to spiral up to the next Darwinian level of our evolution? And what should the adults driving like "vvvvvvvvvvvv,rrrrrr,vvvvvv......" with their mouths do? Any more valuable insights? Oh...firgive me , Sir. Didn't realize you were on a mission... I feel compelled to say that I am disgusted with this thread. Under a different mood, I would have considered your arguments about the handicap people as confession. Don't you think, guys, it would be appropriate to open a thread "Khodja Hagaragian's and The Great Arghishty's Corner?" Your Highness, Go get life...oops, I meant a throne... Plese send me your account number so that I make the tarnsfer... Maybe, then, you will fill happier with yourself and get oof of my back... ( my favorite) Argishti>It is quiet evident who exudes pathological utterances. cheers

DEAR mj Resorting to name calling just proves the weakness of your character and arguments. If you cannot debate in a civilized fashion then please don’t utter statements you can not handle.Cheers

mj Argishti>Defeatist ideology that which Turkish deniers use often: Could you be bringing examples of commercial endeavors? You have not proved your statements with facts! Does neo-nazi Holocaust denial fair argument? According to your faulty logic, it is. Ask the Jews if they tolerate Holocaust deniers. (It’s a laugh, need coffee?)

Nairi jan Thanks for the info. I have been keeping up with this development. It saddens me that some of our people would feel disgusted about Armenian genocide museum but feel equally supportive about Holocaust museum or at best play the deaf and dump game. This attitude is hypocritical. Our heritage and experience is no less important then that of Jews. I do not care what Turks would do in response. They have been swimming in crap for 85 years and their actions do not surprise me a bet.

Building such museums by any one disgusts me, quote: Does this mean the Holocaust museum also disgusts you? According to your statement it does. (If in doubt read your statement again) Which logically proceeds that you are a anti-Semite. Your cheap characterizations become reflection of the author.

mj>I feel compelled to say that I am disgusted with this thread Fine, so why are you continuing to comment? If a fly is attracted to shit...then complains about the existence of the shit then who is to blame. Your views fall in the category of bland relativism that is it does not have substance or spirit. So you put yourself on the pedestal as the moral judge? See the log in front of your eyes before judging others!

to mj and from a different perspective, if the Genocide Recognition is becoming a political, academic, journalistic and commercial endeavor from one side, it is reasonable to expect or to tolerate, to the least, that its denial also may become such exercise? Argishti>Defeatist ideology that which Turkish deniers use often: Could you be bring examples of commercial endeavors? However, I think if we are to judge about the evolution of the Turkish governmental and public sentimate in the context of the Armenian Genocide, in the large realm of things, it has considerably moved towards the recognition rather than the denial. Argishti>Last eighty years of Turkish benignant denial policy resulted few Turkish official’s careful utterances and public minor admissions mostly on academic circles and hardly constitute shift in public opinion. You mean if we wait another two hundred years we will succeed transforming the Turkish society? I would not hold my breath as long as your types equate Armenian recognition efforts on the same par level as Genocide denial!

It is safer subject.Please do not post on "J" subject if you do not want to discuse it.I know I won't.

Some people are the product of a political consumerism but are unaware that they are the victims of political producers. Perhaps a difficult concept since it is always easier to go with the flow. Main streamers are always for most part consumers whether be it politics or commodities. There is no conspiracy here just plain reality.

MJ Your arrogance is well evident and the “crap” is part of life whether you like it or not unless you are advocating fascism, communism or in your case elitism? You have said nothing of significance in your last posts. My comments were not directed to Mosjan.

"we mind others' businesses while our business goes down the drain." Dear Arpa, Reality is not linear and what is “our” business becomes their business i.e. section 907, Jewish lobby efforts against AG recognition, land confiscation!!! I am sure these are not our interests. I am sure these are not our business. It is moronic to think these are not Armenian issues and moronic down right idiotic to blame Armenians for Jews pursuing their national objectives. Political action consciousness perhaps is foreign concepts to some Armenians.

To Sip and others Sip I agree with you that conspiracy theories are totally ridicules given the enormity of the evidence on 9/11. The present hysteria over Iraq is another example when special interests push the US government to act. Israel made no secret that it wants Iraq destroyed and Jews in Washington heavily lobby for US intervention. This is highly dubious proposition in terms of its merits and risks. Since international sanctions thousands of Iraqi children died from malnutrition and lock of medicine. While you can argue that Sadam is responsible for this (common media view) I can equally argue that innocent population should not be punished for their leader’s actions. Fire bombing Dresden –no military value, sanctions on Cuba-mostly fueled by ultra conservative Cubans in Miami, punishing thousands of Palestinians for brainless terrorists solved no problems but resulted in thousands deaths and collective suffering. This latest war drum beating on Iraq is disturbing… To Mosjan I agree with you on anti-semitism however would you not want to know what people really think and perhaps become instrumental in healing? Would you feel the same when some Armenians display irrational hatred for any Turk? I do not support hating anybody including Jews, Turks, Muslims etc.I tried to talk about taboo subjects but needless to say it is not easy. I perceive myself more like a camera just seeing things and recording without much subjectivity. Some Armenians do have Anti-Semitism in them and to pretend otherwise is dishonest. I rather not censer them but perhaps make them see the reality more clearly. Fascists did kill lot of handicapped people because they believed they were not worthy of being humans and you also sound like lets get rid of theses Armenians, they are not worthy to be Armenian either. True Christianity embraces everybody perhaps we should be more conscious of this also.

Soft culture? Please read on. By Chloe Arnold A year ago the former Soviet republic of Azerbaijan changed its alphabet from the Cyrillic to the Latin. Overnight, newspapers, magazines and books were forced to change their scripts. School children say the new alphabet is much easier to read, but not everyone agrees. The road signs have all been changed and billboards and posters are now in the Latin ABC. Writing or printing anything in the old script is a criminal offence. Superficially at least the alphabet change, introduced on 1 August last year, has been a success. Logistical problems But scratch below the surface, and the problems start to appear. Azeri President Heydar Aliyev called for a ban on the Russian alphabet to distance his former Soviet republic from Russia and cement its ties with the West. But he forgot to think about the logistics. Several newspapers disappeared because they could not afford to change their printing presses in time for the deadline. Young people are coping because textbooks in the Latin script have been phased in over the last 10 years. But older people are mystified by the new alphabet - there has been no re-education programme to teach them how to read it. And businesses are still trying to work out how to produce the upside-down letter 'e', that is unique to the Azeri alphabet, on their computers.

Mosjan, thanks for your reply. You have articulated very well.

Dear Laszlo, try here http://www.narek.com/ they import Armenian gifts etc. I am sure they can order a duduk for you or tell you where to order. take care

Tigran Petrosian World Chess Champion Born: 1929, Tbilisi Petrosian had a special talent for prophylaxis. Nobody could do anything against him. As soon as someone began mobilizing their forces for an attack, Petrosian would see their plan and put it to rest. He rarely tried to initiate his own attacks. Often he would think only of his opponent's plans and stop them, leaving his opponents not knowing what to do. Eventually his antagonist would make some small error and Petrosian would pounce just like a tiger who has been lying in wait for just the right moment. This tendency earned him the name "Tiger". Petrosian defeated Botvinnik in 1963 to become the World Champion, until his downfall in 1969 to Boris Spassky. Petrosian-Botvinnik, 5th match game 1963 Keycode: GI 9.7 Source: Shekhtman 956 White: Petrosian,T Black: Botvinnik,M Place: Moscow Year: 1963 1.c4 g6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.e3 O-O 6.Be2 dc4 7.Bc4 c5 8.d5 e6 9.de6 Qd1 10.Kd1 Be6 11.Be6 fe6 12.Ke2 Nc6 13.Rd1 Rad8 14.Rd8 Rd8 15.Ng5 Re8 16.Nge4 Ne4 17.Ne4 b6 18.Rb1 Nb4 19.Bd2 Nd5 20.a4 Rc8 21.b3 Bf8 22.Rc1 Be7 23.b4! c4 24.b5 Kf7 25.Bc3 Ba3 26.Rc2 Nc3 27.Rc3 Bb4 28.Rc2 Ke7 29.Nd2 c3 30.Ne4 Ba5 31.Kd3 Rd8 32.Kc4 Rd1 33.Nc3 Rh1? 34.Ne4! Rh2 35.Kd4! Kd7 36.g3 Bb4 37.Ke5 Rh5 38.Kf6 Be7 39.Kg7 e5 40.Rc6! Rh1 41.Kf7! Ra1 42.Re6 Bd8 43.Rd6 Kc8 44.Ke8 Bc7 45.Rc6 Rd1 46.Ng5 Rd8 47.Kf7 Rd7 48.Kg8 1-0 Annotator: Petrosian,T

A SHIP AND A MOUNTAIN: CONSTANT ZARIAN AND THE ARMENIAN DESTINY IN THE 20TH CENTURY Vartan Matiossian Universidad del Salvador, Buenos Aires One of the most important and rather neglected names of Armenian literature in the 20th century, Constant (Kostan) Zarian's life span (1885-1969) covered eight crucial decades in Armenian life. He was active in Constantinople before the Armenian Catastrophe of 1915, then lived forty years in the Diaspora and finally went to die in Soviet Armenia. Zarian lived across two worlds. He was always on the move and developed close ties with non-Armenian intellectuals. He represented a curious mixture of cultures and influences, and his writing stood at the crossroads of several artistic currents. This led to his being considered by other Armenian writers as a cosmopolitan, a European who wrote in Armenian. Very early in his life, he was exiled from his birthplace, his family, his language; he would rebuild an identity of his own after making a passage through the West. In a certain sense and without knowing it, he was the archetype of the Diasporan Armemian years before the foundations of the Diaspora were effectively laid. One of his contemporaries, the noted novelist and critic Hagop Oshagan, stated around 1944 that "to talk (...) about Constant Zarian means to analyse Spiurk". As used by him, "Spiurk" (Armenian for "Diaspora") is to be understood in the sense of sëprum ("dispersion") rather than the proper name. He actually meant that the analysis of Zarian's writings sheds light on the nature of the Catastrophe and the Diasporan state of affairs. Zarian's generation was at the doorstep of the Diaspora, and he, an exile, was unable to fully understand the destruction and the void created by the Catastrophe. In 1943 Zarian published "The Ship on the Mountain", a novel set in the days of the first independent Republic of Armenia (1918-1920). As he mentions in the prologue, it is "the story of a few Armenian souls bound to live through one of the most crucial periods of our national life. (...) No one should look either for historical inaccuracies: it is not a book of history, it is a book of spirit". Here we find the main idea, an ambitious one: a novel, a "book of spirit", as an instrument for bringing the past into the present and set the path for --and even shape-- a cultural renaissance. Such an idea is reminiscent of recent trends in Third World literature. Zarian's novel depicts the story of Ara Herian, a seafarer captain who struggles to bring a ship from the Black Sea coast up to Lake Sevan, perched high in the mountains of the republic as its only sea-like place. The plot takes its inspiration from an real story: an attempt had been made and a ship lay abandoned near a hill close to Yerevan, the capital, towards the last days of the Republic. The myth of Noah's Ark is thus transposed to modern times. After the Deluge (namely, the Catastrophe), the ship/ark has settled on the peak of the mountain, from where new life will spring, the ruined country will flourish and be rebuilt. Behind, we find a far more general subject, which is part of the "myth of eternal return". The title of the novel is ambiguous: the mountain is a center in itself, a point of reference. The ship goes towards sanctity, the state of nature where everything is eternally repeated. The place becomes sacred when the archetype realizes the sacrifice, when he creates and establishes the rite. The novel tries to summarize Zarian's ideas about the search for "Armenian voki", Armenian Spirit/Essence, and the need for centralization. The ship by itself is not a sufficient representation of the spirit; its meaning is only fulfilled with the presence of Ara Herian. The trinity Herian-ship-sea will embody the completed spirit, after having found its center. The individual creates a movement of return to the sources. An impossible movement, because the mechanical repetition of the previous state is unthinkable: the return is possible only with an advance, and time can only be recreated by sacrifice. The "ship on the mountain" means, therefore, the spirit in the center. Zarian constructs a bipolar dialectic: Homeland versus Diaspora. The motherland is the place of reunion, while Diaspora means dispersion and then disposal. The scattered pieces have to be reunified to create a unity, or else they will become waste. The centripetal force which attracts the pieces towards the center must overcome all the contrary, centrifugal forces. Otherwise, Armenian culture will never regain its completeness. Hence begins the rejection of the Diaspora. The concept of centralization is played out through the person of Captain Herian. Having been born in a small Armenian village, he has travelled throughout the world for years, and has finally set out on his voyage of return to the homeland. Another seaman, Toumanian, a former officer of the Czarist fleet, has also returned. This is how Zarian envisages the "nation-like thing" starting on the long road to becoming a "nation". But the centralization is a failure in itself, because Herian and Toumanian start their return, but without losing their complete sense of duality. There is a sense of distance in their personalities which makes them feel foreigners in a sense, not fully integral. And here lies the paradox of Herian/Zarian: the otherness in the identity. PS This book is very powerful even after ten years reading it.

The site I mentioned is at http://armport.com/ It started as a brainstorm project from another Armenian forum to connect Armenian markets to abroad and help Armenia reach to investors. There is a need for this since there are very few sites that do this. We are still working on the site so it is not totally finished.

Dear Harut, by definition assimilated is one who has adapted and replaced all his former culture and behavior by new one. Any Armenian who contributes to Armenian cause whether politically or socially is not assimilated Armenian hence my comments were not directed at them. Another generalization is that newly arrived Armenians do not participate in our affairs. I disagree, I know people who do. My friend Sasun (new arriver) is actively building a site just for this purpose. There are many other examples. Regards