Rubo

Eduard everything I have said is the opposite of what you apply unless you conveniently glossed over the remarks by other forum members. Your motivation and intentions are questionable. Why would one declare himself a nationalist and target me as an offender when in fact my views have been pretty consistently pro-Armenian national interests. I suggest if you got a personal axe to grind then keep it personal. We got PM option. If you want to debate, then prove what I said not what you assume.

Nothing bothers me more then arrogant and conceited individuals and when they happened to be phony charlatans just makes things worst.

In Artistic circles people who have the least talent Are the one who make the loudest noise? In intellectual circles they fall in the category of self-glorification, arrogance And intolerant of other views If a person says I am progressive but acts contrary Then be sure he is a phony If one declares him only him has the answers Then look no further then Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin What is the deference trying to silence the opposite views? or chopping the opposition heads?

And in this context and in this period, God forbid Armenia is under the control of schizophrenics. I rather be ruled be democratically elected schizophrenic Then an empty second rate dictator “intellectual” Most intelligent people can see the deference!!!!!! Other people means other experiences, perspectives and views. To demand total agreement might as well be synonymous with tyranny and fascism. Ara baliozian

I am saying that a compromise within reason is the logical outcome. I very much agree!

What being ahead means ? Simple: we have our country, let's consolidate it . Dear Boghos why should we consolidate our country? Meaning why should we give Karabagh back to Azerbaijan when the peace process is still going on and we might likely end up with a better deal. I already said once that Karabagh Armenians are the ones who can decide their future. If they decide they want to be ruled by Azerbaijan then it should be acceptable to all. International monitors and US did arrive in Karabagh to oversee the presidential elections. This is a very positive step. It demonstrates that even US is recognizing the Karabagh de facto independence perhaps not officially but nevertheless it could of refused to send monitors. Political gain and settlement issues are not separate from the people whose lives matter! I suggest take a vacation to Karabagh and talk to people there and see if they want to be ruled by Azeris. Regards Ruben

MR. MJ applies that Armenians who advocate the Armenian Genocide reorganization should be “cut the losses” meaning discarded! Diaspora Armenians should be discarded since most are taking AG seriously. Diaspora Armenians investments should be refused since they are discarded. MJ might as well say lets create a republic by a dictator who thinks just like him! Forget the democratic process, the elitists know the solutions! The crap is well evident.

“Relevant circles” repeatedly is used by one egomaniac rather not so disparately. Lets see who really are the relevant circles! People in Karabagh, ordinary folks who toiled the soil, who endured the Azeri attacks on their villages and families. Fifth teen thousand dead Armenian soldiers and their grieving parents who knew that their efforts would bare fruit and that it was not in vein. Relevant circles are the thousands of ordinary Armenians who endured the blockades and the hardships, who demonstrated their desire for Karabagh Armenians aspirations. Relevant circles are the Armenians grass root organizations that worked tirelessly to promote our interests in Washington, passing humanitarian, foreign aid bills, section 907, Karabagh aid etc. These are the relevant circles that matter!!

MJ>Indeed. As it appears, this “lands’” business belongs to the list of Armenian schizophrenias. There are those amongst us who look at the maps of historic Armenia, and get kick out of it, and unless they see a comparable current map of Armenia, they cannot feel “important.” One should not be judged by how well they write but what they say. People who accuse schizophrenia are themselves displaying what schizophrenia is furthermore only weak in heart and intelligence would consistently display the symptoms of wounded peacock! Peculiar, the very people who advocate “progressive” thinking are themselves intolerant to alternative viewpoints. Chauvinists always insist on carbon copy of themselves. MJ>It is obvious that the foolishness of the unification of Karabagh with Armenia and its full independence is well understood by the relevant circles – both in Armenia and Azerbaijan, but most importantly in Karabagh. There is nothing foolish about unification or independence. That is the goal of thousands of Armenians everywhere. If some dry pen pushing Armenian ”intellectuals” think is hopeless then they are displaying their own mental hopelessness. The arrogant “intellectuals” forget there is a democratic process that people in Armenia and Karabagh can choose to make themselves heard what they really want. So far the majority circles do not want the Karabagh to be part of Azerbaijan! If you disagree then bring forth facts to prove me wrong not by “relevant circles”

Dear Bogos I would like to state my views, which are somewhat, differ. I do agree on compromise but that should be decided by Karabagh people as well. · Armenia and Karabagh have the definite advantage having won the independence by the lives of fifth teen thousand of our finest people, one has to question the wisdom of going back to status quote . · Azerbaijan is in no position to challenge Armenia or Karabagh and their population is slowly but surly are getting used to Azerbaijan without Karabagh despite of what empty threats Aliev makes. · Time is in our fever. We have the “goods” · One does not capitulate totally when one is ahead. · Turkish border issue is exaggerated, there is plenty of commerce going on right now even with “closed borders” · It is much more beneficial for Turkey to open borders with Armenian since their economy is in severe situation now. · If we stock up all these point, then we can see that Armenian has no reason to capitulate.

quote: i don't think, therefore, that Dashnaks are to blame. They tried their best (with most armenians)and since the armenians had not tried for a very long time (almost a millenium) and had forgotten what struggle for independence meant, they didn't stand a chance against the extermination plan that a few turks prepared and applied on them.[/ QB] I agree with you. That was my central issue. People who like to blame every conceivable Armenian calamity on Dashnaks have perhaps more of a personal hatred then anything substantive they have to say.The most bogus statement was blaming Dashnaks for Kemalist attack on Armenia in 1918. This is the brainwashing the soviets pumped through our ears in Armenia. I lived there and know it first hand. It is refreshing to read your post, for a while I felt like I was talking in a dessert with loud echo sounds. Take care

MJ, Stop displaying your insecurities. So far you said nothing and anything you have said has been disproved. Frankly I do not have time to correct your misplaced dates or inaccurate statements.

To those Armenians who blindly assert every calamity on Armenians or Dashnaks fail to understand the events within context. Armenian first republic was in dire miserable condition having to attend seven hundred thousand refugees from the slaughter of 1915. Hovaness Tumanian, Khrimian Hayrick,Kostan Zarian wrote many articles describing the horrors of starved children, tuberculoses and other diseases. Armenian Government was not in the position to even think about challenging Turkey. Wether what ARF thought or not did not stop or would not have stopped the Kemalists from their desire to expend the boundaries of Turkey. PS I do not think you need arguments but plain facts on Armenian history

MJAdditionally, the Kemalist attack on Armenia in 1920 was primarily provoked by the ARF policies, What is wrong with this statement? Kemalists attacked Armenia NOT 1920but 1918Please read on.My referance to the novel notice was about dire social conditions not proving a fact!Anyway MJ it gives me pleasure to talk with you. 1918 · February 6- After Russian troops pull out, only Armenian forces remain. The Turkish assault · begins. They conquer Yerzngan, Drabizon, Parpert, Garin and they advance towards Russian Armenia. · February 16- SAYM declares peace with Turkey. · March 3- The treaty of Brest-Litovsk is signed between Germany and the Soviet Union, giving Gars, Ardahan and Batoum regions to the Turks. · March 9- SAYM declares the Caucasus independent and starts a new wave of talks with Turkey. · March 12- By Chekhengel’s orders, Gars is given to the Turks. This move angers the Armenians. · March 23- Turks conquer Sarenghamish. · April 7-8- After being abandoned by the Georgians and the Azeris, Aram and Tro leading the Armenian forces engage the Turkish Army in the Ararat region. · May 11- New peace negotiations start in Batoum. · May 15- The Turks conquer Alexandrapole without waiting for a response to their ultimatum. Aram Manoukian takes charge of the Armenian defence forces and unifies the Armenian people to face the enemy. · May 24- General Nazarpekian takes the offensive against the Turks. · May 24-26- The bloody battles of Sardarabad and Gharakilisa. The Armenian forces give an effective blow on the enemies. The Armenians were fighting fate determining battles. Turkey suffered major loses on all the fronts · May 26- By Georgia pulling out from SAYM and declaring its independence, SAYM collapses. · May 27- Azerbeijan declares itself independent. · May 23-28- The Armenian forces continue their strikes on the Turkish forces. The historic battles of Pash Abaran take place. The Turks defeated on every front start retreating. Under the leadership of Aram; Generals Nazarpekian, Siligian, Aligian, Araradian, Tro, Ghorganian and others give a decisive blow to the enemy. These victories open a new chapter for the Armenians. The Armenian National Council by declaring Armenia’s independence, proclaims itself the Republic’s temporary government. May 28 becomes the birthday of the Republic of Armenia. · June 4- A peace treaty is signed between the Republic of Armenia and Turkey. Armenia is 12,000 km square. Prime Minister Katchazouni forms the republic’s first government. · August 1- The start of Armenia’s Constitutional Meeting. · September 15- After a heroic struggle, Bakoun falls to the Turks. 30,000 Armenians perish and Armenians loose billions of roupli. · October 21- Lori Pambag region falls in the hands of the Armenians. · October 24- Turks start retreating from the Trans-Caucasus. · October 30- The peace treaty of Moudra is signed. · November 4- The government of Kachazouni is reformed by the participation of non-partisan representatives and representatives from the various Armenian parties. · November 11-18- A General cease-fire is declared. Armenian forces enter Gharakilisa. · December 2- The Armenian Army conquers Alexandrapole and annexes it to the Armenian Republic. · December 5- Georgian forces take over Akhalkalak and they try to conquer Armenian Lori. · December 13- Armenian-Georgian war starts. Armenia wins on all the fronts and advances towards the Georgian borders. · December 31- With British intervention the Armenian-Georgian war ends. The two countries re-establish diplomatic ties. 1920 January 19- The Allies de facto recognize the Armenian Government. January 31- In Alexandrapole, with a big celebration, the first Armenian University opens its doors. The university was later moved to Yerevan. February- 18 The Armenian Red Cross is established. March 1- The government allocates 50 million roubles for agricultural development. For the first time farmers receive exported mechanized farm machinery. April 1- The Azeri Turks attack the Armenian population in the Shoushi region. Violence erupts between Azeries and Armenians in the Nagorno-Artsax region. April-May- The Bolsheviks stage uprisings in Armenia. May 5- Khadisian resigns. The parliament appoints a new government. Armenian Revolutionary Federation’s Bureau becomes the new government and H. Ohanchanian as the prime minister. May- The government suppresses the Bolshevik insurgence. October 10- Avedis Aharonian signs the Treaty of Sevres. September 23- Without a declaration of war the Turks attack, starting the Turko-Armenian war. October 13- Mr. Lerkan, the soviet representative, arrives in Yerevan and proposes the following terms. Consider the Treaty of Sevres non-binding. Allow the Red Army to pass through Armenia Allow the Soviet Government to negotiate Armenia’s borders. The Armenian Government refuses the terms. October 20-26- Bloody battles over Sourmalia. Under the leadership of Tro, the Armenian Army destroys the Turks. November 23- The government of Ohanchanian resigns and after 2 days S. Vratsian forms a new government. November 29- With the help of Azeries and the Red Army, Armenian Communists enter Ichevan. November 30- On behalf of the Communist Party and the Soviet Government, Mr. Lerkan gives an ultimatum to the Armenians demanding them to join the Soviet Union. Talks begin between Tro and Lerkan. December 2- Armenia is declared a Soviet Republic. In Alexandrapole a peace treaty is signed between Turkey and Armenia. December 25- Zankezour, which was saved from the Bolsheviks, declares itself autonomous under the leadership of K. Njdeh.

Additionally, the Kemalist attack on Armenia in 1920 was primarily provoked by the ARF policies, This statement is in the tradition of a rapist blaming the girl for smiling at him or common arguments Turkish denialists use to cover up the guilt of AG by “provoked by revolutionaries” Superfluous logic. Pretty shameful coming out of an Armenian mouth!!

MJ>Additionally, the Kemalist attack on Armenia in 1920 was primarily provoked by the ARF policies, Wrong! Kemalists were just opportunistic and took advantage of a country that was abandoned by the allies and was literary starving itself out. Please read Kostan Zarian’s novel “nav@ leran vra” for more detail social conditions. Having beaten the British and the Greeks Kemalists wanted to expand the borders to unite with Baku hence to finalize their pan Turkic dreams that is untill the dream was crashed at Sardarabad. MJ>I would also like to remind all that while throughout most of the history Karabagh has been predominantly Armenian populated territory, it has practically never been part of Armenia. Wrong! Please see the map and general info. If nationalism is a relatively modern concept born in European shores then we have to take into an account that Armenian kingdoms were comprised as a “nation” called Armenia. Vaspurakan,mes Hayk, pocr Hayk,Taron ,Suinik were all Armenian provinces. http://www.geocities.com/master8885/Maps/map.jpg http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Images/Chica...o/hewsen62.html Notice Karabagh was called Suinik-Armenian provance Ancient historians noted that Artsakh belonged to Armenia and that the provinces on the right coast of the Kur River comprised a part of Armenia. Strabon, Plutarch, Claudia Ptolomeo and other authors recalled that the border of Armenia with neighboring Albania (also known as Aluank) extended along the Kur River. In 301 AD, Armenia adopted Christianity as its official religion and at the beginning of the 4th century, Artsakh and other regions of Armenia experienced a new and powerful growth of culture. In 405 AD, the Armenian alphabet was created by Mesrop Mashtots. He also opened the first Armenian school at the beginning of the 5th century at the Amaras Church (a 4th century basilica) in Artsakh [present-day Martuni District.] The rich materials of Artsakh's history of the Middle Ages are preserved in the works of Armenian, Persian, Byzantine and Arab historians, geographers, travelers and on the ancient maps of Armenia (4th-6th centuries AD), invariably proving the Armenian ethnic-cultural image of the region. Armenia reached the zenith of its political power and territorial expansion under King Tigranes (Dikran) the Great, who reigned from 95 to 55 B.C. His realm extended from the Caspian Sea right across the Middle East, Syria, the borders of Egypt and to the Mediterranean Sea, containing over 30 million inhabitants. Northern Syria and Cilicia were also incorporated into Tigranes' domain, with Antioch as capital, and Southern Syria, Lebanon and Palestine remaining as vassal states recognizing Tigranes' authority. Tigranes' Empire however, was not long lived. He was not able to withstand the repeated assaults of the Romans in the west and the Parthians in the east. As a buffer battleground beween Rome and the Parthians (and their successors Sassanid Persia) Armenia was subjected to a prolonged period of invasions, and was finally partitioned between the two empires. Roman influence prevailed in Armenia, and Tiridates (Drtad III) was restored to the Armenian throne under Roman Protection (286-330 A.D). Four years later King Tiridates was converted to Chrisitianity by St. Gregory the Illuminator (Krikor Lusavoritch), and Armenia entered a new stage in its history as the world's first Christian state in 301 A.D.

Alpha , victors in any conflict do not compromise on even equal footing. Artsax has for most of its history been a historical part of Armenia furthermore Armenians were a majority 95% in Karabagh prior of the break up of soviet union. Thinking logically why should Armenians, victors the majority compromise with the 5% minority of its destiny. I believe my solution comes closer to fair compromise. Remember Turkish or asiatic thinking is more emotional then rational.Since they lost the war, Azeris would never except total defeat hence their persistant need to reclaim Artsax.Tough, get used to new reality!

Instead of minimizing their claims and establishing normal relations with its neighbors the Dashnak government went to war in three fronts. The result was loss of half of the territory of Republic, Kars, Surmalu, and Artsax. Hi Alpha, I agree with most of your points but disagree with the statement I quoted above. It was the Kemalists Turks who attacked newly formed government not other way around. Although I do not belong in any organizations I nevertheless do not want to attribute every Armenian disaster on Dashnaks. I believe their intentions were pure but they were not organized and did not collaborate well with others. The situation is still the same now. ANCA has no relations with Armenian Assembly. We are still in infancy stage when comes to excepting each other as equal Armenians.

Hagarag I had this on my files. I think this is the article you are refering, if not then show me the goods baby Jews as part of the genetic landscape of the Middle East Posted by Kevin Brook to Kulanu's listserv in November and December 2001 A new study of interest has been published in the November 2001 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics (volume 69, number 5) on pages 1095-1112. Entitled "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East" and authored by Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, and Ariella Oppenheim, the article discusses the results of a new genetic test on 526 persons (from the Ashkenazic Jewish, Sephardic Jewish, Kurdish Jewish, Muslim Kurdish, Jordanian Arab, Syrian Arab, Lebanese Arab, Israeli Arab, Palestinian Arab, and Negev Bedouin populations). The results were as follows: · Kurdish Jews and North African Jews are very closely related in their paternal lineages. · Kurdish Jews and North African Jews are less related to Ashkenazic Jews; the differences between the Sephardic/Oriental and Ashkenazic Jewish groups are described in the abstract as slight yet significant. · Ashkenazic Jews, while related to other Jewish groups, might also have a certain amount of European ancestry. · Jews are more closely related to Armenians, Kurds, and Anatolian Turks than to their Arab neighbors. · The haplogroup Eu 9 derived from northern Middle Easterners, while the haplogroup Eu 10 derived from more southerly Middle Easterners. Palestinian Arabs and Bedouins often belong to Eu 10 and could have substantial ancestry from the Arabian Peninsula. The above study is summarized by Judy Siegel in her Jerusalem Post article "Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe." (November 20, 2001). An exceptional North African Jewish community is Libyan Jewry, which appears to differ noticeably from Moroccan Jewry, Tunisian Jewry, and Algerian Jewry. According to Noah A. Rosenberg, Eilon Woolf, Jonathan K. Pritchard, Tamar Schaap, Dov Gefel, Isaac Shpirer, Uri Lavi, Batsheva Bonne'-Tamir, Jossi Hillel, and Marcus W. Feldman in their article "Distinctive genetic signatures in the Libyan Jews." (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA (PNAS) 98:3 (January 30, 2001): 858-863), "...Libyan Jews... separate from and show strong differentiation from the other populations of our study. This population has a unique history among North African Jewish communities, including an early founding, a harsh bottleneck, possible admixture with local Berbers, limited contact with other Jewish communities, and small size in the recent past..." In the article "High-resolution Y chromosome haplotypes of Israeli and Palestinian Arabs reveal geographic substructure and substantial overlap with haplotypes of Jews" (Human Genetics 107(6), December 2000, pp. 630-641), Ariella Oppenheim, Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Mark G. Thomas, D. A. Weiss, M. Weale, and Marina Faerman presented evidence that Israeli Jews and Israeli/Palestinian Arabs are genetically similar but not identical. They suggested that these groups shared common origins, with somewhere between 70 to 80 percent of Jews and about 50 percent of Arabs sharing ancestry. The study clarifies the finding of Michael F. Hammer, Alan J. Redd, Elizabeth T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, Hamdi Jarjanazi, Tanya Karafet, Silvana Santachiara-Benerecetti, Ariella Oppenheim, Mark A. Jobling, Trefor Jenkins, Harry Ostrer, and Batsheva Bonne'-Tamir in "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish Populations Share a Common Pool of Y-chromosome Biallelic Haplotypes", Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 97:12 (June 6, 2000) that Ashkenazi Jews are related through paternal ancestry to Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, and Anatolian Turks. Meanwhile, Aravinda Chakravarti, director of the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine at Johns Hopkins University, found that the mutation DFNB1, which causes deafness, is found among Jews, Palestinian Arabs, and other Mediterranean populations. Notice that the latest study by Nebel et al., like the previous ones, focuses on paternal ancestries rather than maternal ancestries, so the assumption that Moroccan/Algerian/Tunisian Jews did not mix with Berbers and that Kurdish Jews did not mix with Kurds may not necessarily be correct. The Yemenite Jews serve as a useful comparison - the Yemenite Jewish paternal lines appear to come from Israelites while their maternal lines resemble those of Yemenite Arabs. Might the same (increased diversity in mtDNA lineages compared to Y-chromosomal lineages) be true of North African Jews and Ashkenazi Jews? "Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs." - from the article "Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe" by Siegel in the Jerusalem Post. I would like to add to my remarks concerning the latest Jewish DNA study ["The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East" by Almut Nebel, Ariella Oppenheim, et al., The American Journal of Human Genetics 69:5 (November 2001): 1095-1112]. First, it says that Jews are most related to Kurds and secondarily to other northern Mediterranean groups, then to Arabs and Europeans. Second, this study correlates nicely with the finding that the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH) is found not only among Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazic Jews but also among Iraqi Kurds*1 and Armenians*2. Plus, Familial Mediterranean Fever is found among Ashkenazic Jews, Iraqi Jews, North African Jews, Armenians, Druze, Anatolian Turks, and Arabs*3. Third, one point not fully clarified by Ha'aretz*4 and the Jerusalem Post*5 is the following quote directly from the Nebel, Oppenheim, et al. study, which shows that Ashkenazic Jews do have some non-Israelite elements (perhaps Khazarian and Slavic) in paternal lineages. The researchers wrote: "Previous studies of Y chromosome polymorphisms reported a small European contribution to the Ashkenazi paternal gene pool (Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993). In our sample, this low-level gene flow may be reflected in the Eu 19 chromosomes, which are found at elevated frequency (12.7%) in Ashkenazi Jews and which are very frequent in Eastern Europeans (54%-60%) (Semino et al. 2000). Alternatively, it is attractive to hypothesize that Ashkenazim with Eu 19 chromosomes represent descendants of the Khazars, originally a Turkic tribe from Central Asia, who settled in southern Russia and eastern Ukraine and converted en masse to Judaism in the ninth century of the present era, as described by Yehuda Ha Levi in 1140 AD (Dunlop 1954)." This finding, along with Nathaniel Pearson's research (whose Ukrainian Jewish Y-chromosomal haplotype matched with an Uzbekistani Uzbek, an Uzbekistani Tajik, and two men from New Delhi in northern India), contradicts the assertion of other geneticists that Ashkenazim are not at all descended from Khazars and other European converts.

Hagarag I also read the article on that study which was about which group was closest to Jews. Kurds and palistinians were on top, Armenians and Turks less close. There was nothing mentioned about Armenians if so can you post that article? or I have to assume you are deliberatly distorting facts.

Edo>No Rubo, we have nothing to give to the azeri-turks. In fact, we still need to liberate Nakhijevan and western armenia. Ok Eduard jan, here we go… I would first present an analogy that would help to see my perspective. I love chess. It is a fascinating game that which does mimic life very well. Beginning first moves are generally called developing moves that is the major pieces are brought in the game for future action. Without this critical developmental moves attacks or weakening opponent’s positions are impossible. Time is also crucial since who ever brings his major pieces in position for battle has definite advantage. Now Armenia is in this development stage that needs every ounce of strength to grow as a country. Before we dream or think about western Armenia, is it not prudent to solve the social problems that devastates Armenia now, I mean now not in the future or the genocide decade but now. You are also mixing up what patriotism is truly about. If one were an Armenian general and knowingly took sixty thousand Army against an enemy of seven hundred thousand with the latest weaponry what do you think the outcome will be. Total annihilation!! Was the general heroic hero or damm ass second hand fanatic who failed to analyze the situation more realistically? Do you ever question our revolutionaries about the Genocide? I do. They were partly responsible for the slaughter. They were only thinking linear with plan A without a backup plan B or C. Our revolutionaries thought we were the majority and the Turks the minority but obviously then and now we fail to see that we always have been a minority!! With a minority strategy ( relying on Russia, France etc) with a minority view of the world.Patratism is a double edge sword. Ask if your patriotism hurts or benefits Armenia Some minor observation. Please do not set forth your assumptions what I said then continue building the pyramid on weak foundation. Example? Edo>Rubo, what kind of nationalizm are you talking about? The turks were in our house killing our own women and children. Since when a self defense is called a nationalism? Do you mean to tell us that the turks who killed us for centuries, have become saints? If you truly love your country, you would think of a way for all of us to make a progress instead of going back and being killed by the same enemy. For that matter, if you have no vision and no new ideas, just keep yourself in a silence and please, do not stand on our way. Quote me directly and debate on merits. Notice I have not called you names but you already accused me of name-calling. If so prove me. Edo>nothing new at all, ...the same baseless comments, and of course, the name calling is part of the job too. Take care

Dear Ali This question does intrigue me and have not had satisfying answer. Present Turks in Turkey look very much western in their features. Originally they looked more like Turkic tribes at present Turkmenistan. It is logical to deduce that present Turks have predominantly native population’s genes i.e. Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds, Greeks, Lezgi and so forth; My question is this, why do most Turks identify themselves as Turks when they carry perhaps five percent of their original blood line? If as an Armenian I knew I had all these mixed genes in me then I would have showed greater respect and tolerance to local inhibiters.Don't get me wrong, I am not after putting the Turks down but just curious.

This is exactly what I am talking about.Without the concern Armenians protests Jews would not see the need to differ with Tel Aviv.Political action pays!! JEWISH COMMITTEE OF AMERICA CAME OUT AGAINST SEIZURE OF ARMENIAN PATRIARCHY LANDS IN JERUSALEM - August 08, 2002 18:12 /PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Jewish Committee of America has expressed serious concern regarding the Israeli army seizure of the lands of the Armenian patriarchy in Jerusalem. The Committee leadership has called upon the defense ministry of Israel to closely cooperate with the Armenian patriarchy in construction of the dividing wall between Israel and Palestine. The message in particular notes that for many years the Armenian and Jewish communities have made every effort to achieve comprehensive understanding and mutual respect. Meanwhile, according to the report of the Armenian patriarchy of Jerusalem, the Armenian church leaders do not object to building the separating wall in principle, but they consider laying it through the patriarchy territory unacceptable. The leaders of various religious confessions have also appealed to the Israeli authorities calling them to investigate the fact of the patriarchal land takeover. As secretary general of the National Council of Churches Robert Edgar noted in his message addressed to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the fact causes anxiety of other religious minorities of Israel, too.

Mosjan, I planning to buy land myself also. My statement was broad scope more in tune with empty rhetoric then handful of people’s efforts. I lived in LA and I can tell you lot of so-called patriots are real dead beats trumped in American materialism but active in propagating intense rhetoric. If you look statistically how many Armenian migrated from abroad to Artsax is miniscule. When Armenia became independent there was euphoria about going back there. Well only less then few thousand have. Lets look how many people left Armenia since independence, more then a million. Numbers don’t lie. Why do and did people leave Armenia. Economy! Eduard thinks Azeri conflict is solved? I wished it was solved then we would have had full trade with Turkey with open borders and with Azerbaijan. Armenian cannot prosper in isolation and Diaspora’s efforts have not been substantial. The point is nationalism has a price. I am a hard-core nationalist but I put my nation above myself. The Armenia needs peace right now so she can stand on her feet or if we continue the statues quote and slowly empty the country of its people.

Eduard May I ask more specific questions 1. How would you solve the Azeri conflict? 2. How would you stop the white exodus out of our homeland? 3. If not done anything meaningful and soon the rate of people leaving the country by the time you may think about Naxijevan there may be less then million Armenians left in the country. 4. Do we need more land? Fine! So why those die-hard nationalists are still in US cities and not living in Karabagh? Was it not recently liberated? 5. Were you born in Armenia? (Relevant question since there is a deference of perception of reality) 6. Your age does matter also. Most teenagers know little about the price of ultra nationalism. PS Real politik has nothing to do with guts but everything to do with cold facts.