MJ

posted May 25, 2001 06:40 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES / COMMENTS *********************************** You may have noticed that, when an intelligent man behaves stupidly, the reasons he invents to justify his conduct will be even more stupid. I don’t believe in the ignorance of the cunning, the unawareness of the smart, and the innocence of the devious. When a loud-mouth charlatan says "I didn’t know that!" more often than not what he really means is: "There is no way you can prove that I knew." Jean Rostand: "The persistence of an opinion proves nothing in its favor. Astrologers still exist." Leonardo: "Wherever reason is absent, shouting takes its place." Some leaders behave like shepherds: first they fleece, then they butcher. I have at no time thought of our leaders as my friends, let alone as my servants, but as my enemies. I will never understand people who feel the need to support one side against the other. If I can loathe both sides, I don’t feel compelled to choose; and whenever asked to choose, I quote Dr. Johnson’s celebrated dictum: "Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea." -------------------- ara baliozian

posted June 04, 2001 06:53 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ELEMENTARY, MY DEAR WATISON! ***************************************** The first step in solving a problem is to admit its existence. A victim of fascism can also be a fascist. The problem with our pundits is that so far they have failed to change the mind of a single parish priest or partisan flunky, and yet, they think they can convince the machinery of foreign bureaucracies to change theirs. Two questions to our pundits: When was the last time you changed your mind about anything? Have you ever been able to change the mind of a fellow Armenian pundit who disagreed with you? To enjoy wide acceptance a theory or explanation must be compatible with recycled chauvinist crap, otherwise it will be labeled and dismissed as unpatriotic, masochistic, racist, and self-hating. The fascist mind comes in two parts: the ideological and the criminal; and the function of the ideological is to camouflage the criminal. The ease with which we solve someone else’s problems may also be a symptom of man’s inhumanity to man. Politicians who profess family values see nothing morally inconsistent in screwing the nation. -------------------- ara baliozian

posted June 06, 2001 11:04AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES & COMMENTS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Investigative reporters are the eyes and ears of a nation. This point should be emphasized. A nation without investigative reporters might as well be blind, deaf, and dumb. Some leaders behave like shepherds: first they fleece, then they butcher. I have at no time thought of our leaders as my friends, let alone as my servants, but as my enemies. If a messianic figure were to appear among us and if he were to discover the solution to all our problems, you can be sure of one thing: we would crucify him. And why? Because his solution would make too many demands on us. Which is why I feel justified in asserting that, when an Armenian says "What is your solution?" what he really means is: What is your magic formula, hocus pocus, or abracadabra? I will never understand people who feel the need to support one side against the other. If I can loathe both sides, I don’t feel compelled to choose; and whenever asked to choose, I quote Dr. Johnson’s celebrated dictum: "Sir, there is no settling the point of precedency between a louse and a flea." An eminent psychiatrist (R.D. Lang) once remarked, it is not at all unusual for an imbecile to have a high IQ. That’s us! Cunning wheeler-dealers, moral and political imbeciles. One reason why so far I have refused to give up is that, that is exactly what my adversaries expect me to do. They know from experience that in the environment they have created, someone like me has a very limited life span and that far better men than myself eventually gave up in disgust and fell silent. There is satisfaction, not to say a sensation akin to victory, in knowing that I continue to be a source of disappointment, perhaps even annoyance, to them. In our environment no one ever prospered by promoting solidarity. If you want to hit pay dirt, divide! (That must be the unspoken slogan of our bosses and bishops.) -------------------- ara baliozian [ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

posted June 15, 2001 11:26 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES / COMMENTS ****************************** Our politically unaware and naïve masses are no match for sophisticated and cunning activists and partisans who are in charge of our educational institutions and media. To be a success in politics, one must master the art of flattering the idiot in people. That is a talent I don’t have and a skill I have no desire to acquire. A **** thinks the sun rises to hear him crow. A fool think he is the sun. Confusion arises when you are brainwashed to believe that you are beyond criticism and you can do no wrong: as a result, the harm you do and the hatred you inspire in others becomes incomprehensible. A teenage girl without a single idea in her head can make a fool of an old philosopher with a thousand ideas everyone of which could save the world from destruction. Armenian military leaders in the service of the Byzantine Empire conquered Italy (Narses) and Bulgaria (Basil II). None of them was even remotely interested in defending Armenia against its enemies. In a perfectly crafted book what becomes memorable is the clumsy phrase, the misplaced word, the human touch. The Middle East: from the cradle of civilization to a cesspool of unsettled tribal scores. One reads not to get at the truth or to find the final answers to the most important questions. One reads in the hope of coming across an idea or even a hint that, combined with our own experience, will create a spark that may illuminate a dark corner of our psyche. -------------------- ara baliozian

posted June 05, 2001 10:58AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES / COMMENTS ******************************** Anyone who knows anything about Armenian literature also knows that the right words have been with us for 1500 years but so far they have had no effect on those who need them most. "Solidarity only on my own terms" does not mean solidarity but its exact opposite. American scholars agree that there has always been a strong anti-intellectual current in American history. The same applies to Armenian history, but the only thing Armenian scholars agree on is covering up this fact. Where a part-time janitor makes more money than a full-time writer, there will be an abundance of trashy propaganda and a total absence of ideas. The smaller the country the more bloated the egos. I don’t trust a regime under whose administration those willing to emigrate outnumber those willing to stay in. -------------------- ara baliozian

In the annals of Modern Art, he is recognized as Abstract Expressionist.

I don't think calling him "Abstract Surrealist" is correct. This is the first time I come across such characterization. He, admittedly, is the founder of Abstract Expressionism.

I have a proposal about the quarries. If we can find a formal reference - in Turkish newspapers or elsewhere (better UNESCO materials), I propose based on that evidence writing an open letter on behalf of the Hye Forum to the President of Armenia, copy it to the Minister of Culture of Armenia, and send it to the Ambassador of Armenia in the USA (it's easier to do for us). What do you think?

"yan - ian" is quite common in Sanskrit, and most likely it originates from Sanskrit. Its meaning is equivalent to the meaning of the suffix "ian" in English.

No comment.

...and how come that you are amazed when I say "soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements". Do you think the leaders of the Soviet Union had suicidal tendancies to the extent that they supported movements which would inevitably end up reviving nationalist feelings in one of the Soviet Republics leading to the break-up of the Union. No this seems simply absurd tome.' There is nothing absurd in the paragraph above and any person of good faith would understand it. You obviously don't want to see what is staring you in the face. What you say about ASALA and it being a Soviet manipulated organisation is not new. It was fashionable(I don't know if you remember that and if you were abroad at that time but) to accuse Soviets of plotting against the West for every terrorist act. It was part of the Soviet conspiracy theory. I have to say that you have a very strange manner of making an argument. You forget that the paragraph in the quotations is yours – not mine. Tell me, so that I understand your logic, please, in what manner the sponsorship of ASALA by the USSR implies suicidal attempt by the Soviets? In what way have the actions of ASALA lead to the break-up of the Soviet Union? Are your insinuations about the logic of my statements resulted from the limited knowledge of your English, from the fact that you don’t read, but glance through, or is there some other factor that I cannot understand? What is the issue here? Help me to understand, please. But it was absurd. Just like accusing M. Ali Agca(Pope's aggressor) of being a KGB agent. What a disinformation! It later turned out that Agca was the member of a right wing extremist movement (the gray wolves) which was fighting communists in Turkey and trying to get Central Asian republics independent...This is to tell you how your Soviet conspiracy theory is logical Off the logic and off the point of the argument. Therefore – no comments. ASALA is a liability for those who commited those terrorist acts, those who supported them morally or financially, these ones should be tried, yes and not only in the public opinion courts. It's not a liability for ordinary armenians who don't have the blood of diplomats on their hands and the armenians in general in Armenia who have nothing to do with these acts. Great. You should make that argument to the Turkish side. No need to convince me. And in general, there is no need to insinuate an argument on my behalf, and then to start to negate it. It is just a wasteful exercise.

You mean that people like Monte Melkonian and Hagop Hagopian were manipulated by the Soviets? If I understand correctly, at the time Monte has joined ASALA, he has probable been 18 years old. I doubt that Soviets have bothered even talking to him, and I think the question posed by you is more of rhetoric character, and a little bit prevocational rather then anything else. As to Hagoip Hagopian, I am more suspicious about his persona, but obviously cannot provide you any documental evidence to support my suspicions. So I would leave it there. Well I don't feel liable at all as far as ASALA's acts are concerned Those who supported it are accountable for their acts and should pay if necessary. OK. So what is your point? Is or isn’t ASALA a liability, however tangential, for Armenians in the court of public opinion? ...and how come that you are amazed when I say "soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements". Do you think the leaders of the Soviet Union had suicidal tendancies to the extent that they supported movements which would inevitably end up reviving nationalist feelings in one of the Soviet Republics leading to the break-up of the Union. No this seems simply absurd to me. I think if we are looking for an absurd in this thread, it may be found in your paragraph referenced above. I think you have a tendency of mixing the apples with oranges. You should be more deleberate in your argumentations. The last but not the least: you did not react to my assertion that the intensification of ASALA's terrorist acts coincided with the establishment of a military regime in Turkey and those terrorist acts were like a manna for the turkish junta which was trying to divert its public's attention from domestic issues( widespread and systematic human rights violations ,lack of democracy, various economic and social problems) getting the turkish public opinion concentrate instead contantly on that issue of 'armenian' terrorism. Yes, I didn’t react to. Am I obligated to react to every single statement that you make? I can also suspect that the very fact of allowing Armenia to build a monument of Genocide in Armenia, and allowing public expressions of resentment against Turkey on the soil of Armenia effective 1965 attests to the fact of another shift (there have been several of them) of the Soviet Foreign policy towards Turkey. Why does it sound illogical to you that from the same considerations as Soviet Armenia was allowed to take some stance on the Genocide, USSR would’ve not supported ASALA? So to whom did really the 'armenian' terrorism benefit: armenians around the world(whose name was sullied by blind terrorist attacks in Europe and the armenians of Turkey who came under enormous pressure-many armenians migrated to USA at that time) or the turkish military regime of that time? It's up to you to decide. Dear Hovik, I have made my decisions long time ago, but will take your advise and revisit them. But I think you have to take it a little slow, and read my materials more deliberately, before replying to me. I have to run, now.

Yes. Now that I read it over, you are right. You were not tying ASALA's actions to the awareness on the subject of the Genocide. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Indeed, effective 1965, USSR allowed Armenia to mourn (from whatever considerations). However, that was the extent of it. Undoubtedly, the issue of the recognition and the condemnation of the Genocide has been on the shoulders of Diaspora all the way up to the year 2000, I think, when the Government of Armenia has stepped in.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Even in the Soviet Union for a long time, there was strong objection from Moscow on mourning the Genocide let alone promote its recognition. Dear Boghos, Actually, the Soviet "change of heart" w.r.t. the Armenian Genocide has taken place in 1965 - at least few years earlier than the emergence of ASALA, I think.

I may be ready to accept that an organization with a name ASALA, even comprising from some older ASALA members may exist in Armenia, however it would have a totally different charter. The existence of terrorist organizations on the soil of the Republic of Armenia is forbidden by the law of Armenia. The assertion that ASALA had soviet support simply doesn't hold. How come? Monte Melkonian was an american citizen wasn't he? Yes. So? Hagop hagopian being half arab half armenian I doubt the extent to which that organisation was really directed by armenians the perpetrators may be armenians naturally. Don’t see the validity of the arguments. PKK was also led by Kurds, but armed and financed by the USSR, as well as the PLO was in the old days. The armenian liability doesn't exist. ASALA never represented the armenian republic which did not exist at that time as an independent repubic. Today's republic strongly denies and condemns the act of people with 'unbalanced personality'. I have not claimed that ASALA is a liability for the Republic of Armenia, but for Armenians, meaning the Armenian cause. As for the armenian public awareness everybody was well aware of that well before the attacks began. Sure there was awareness of the historic fact. However, that awareness lacked political context, and was more in the context of mourning the ancestors. …and the soviets were certainly not inclined to exacerbate nationalist movements? Very strange statement, the least… [ June 14, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Yes. It has been quite common in Armenian political circles of the late 19th and early 20th centurey, especially. Many Young Turks have also been Masons.

Check the first one at http://armenians.com/poems/Qaryakner/ .

No apologies needed, THOTH. You are taking it too serious. Gilligan...

Obviously, ASALA is a liability for Armenians. However, that liability is taken way out of proportions by the Turkish side. As to the Armenian support of PKK - that is another exaggeration. It is hard to imagine that there have not been Armenians supporting PKK. PKK has been Marxist/Socialist organization, and so that to garner some support from the Kurdish population, the tribal structure of which doesn't accommodate Marxism, it has later added nationalistic/anti-Turkish flavor to its appearance, which I think has been of peripheral character. Hardly these two magnets would’ve not attracted at least moral support from similar Armenian elements. ASALA has also been a Marxist organization, financed by non-Armenian sources (therefore managed, I assume), and it has obviously had a nationalistic orientation (better to say anti-Turkish orientation). Clearly the name ASALA as Army of Liberation of Armenia doesn't correspond to its actual mission. The assassinations that they have committed, allegedly, have pursued a purpose of raising public awareness, and breaking the wall of silence on the subject of the Armenian Genocide. On such capacity, under the best scenario, ASALA has been a PR organization. In my view the negative PR they have generated Ha substantially exceeded the positive one. Additionally, the positive PR, in my view, has been accomplished primarily in the internal Armenian arena, by raising awareness of the Genocide as an actual subject of interest inside the Armenian communities. It is interesting that ASALA has never made any declarations (furthermore no actions) on the subject of the liberation of Soviet Armenia. This fact itself raises suspicions of Soviet support, even if we assume absence of such direct allegations. I doubt that it has ever been larger than few dozens of young man, of which perhaps only one dozen has participated in actions. There is also information that, subsequently, ten of them have participated in the liberation of Karabagh. Now, the question is why so much noise about ASALA from both sides? The motivations of the Turkish side to disproportionately present the Armenian liability of ASALA are understandable. The sympathies towards ASALA from some segments of the Armenian nation are more of a psychological character rather than political, I think. The burden of being victimized without the punishment of the guilty, and moreover, without recognition of victimization is frequently a heavy burden. The ASALA actions have somewhat lightened that burden at the time of their occurrence.

But that's not a reservation, but rather an observation.

Yes, that's how we call them. Just read the materials of this thread above to learn some on their concepts.

quote:Originally posted by Harut: as "patshar"? you're kidding, aren't you? Yes, you can say so. That's who have been at the foundations of the organization.

quote:Originally posted by THOTH: I understand Ara & MJs reservations...but ultimatly I have great faith in the Armenian people. Which reservations are you referring to, THOTH?

Vormnadir.

THOTH Member Member # 369 posted June 11, 2001 08:33 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wow - thanks - didn't know it. And lo & behold - the first entry I see in the Guestbook - "Nina in Armenia"! the second entry being yours of course - Nina in France. etc I should check out more her recent material - as I am a bit out of date. I have several live tapes I (& others) have made (late 70s early 80s vintage from shows...funny, through mutual interest in Nina I became friends with one of the Red Hot Chili Peppers (John Fruschante) - who at one time was the roomate of one of my best friends...also a musician (and almost RHCP drummer - was #2 in the audition...oh well...etc)...I have lost touch though...shame... Enjoyed the site - BTW - will check out some more in the future (which is now!)... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by naira: Nina Hagen, thread why not... she has a very rich professional and dense personal life and some outstanding humanitarian activity ... So we ould find many things to discuss. Besides I'm signed in her "fun club", as some of my other friends... Here is her official web place. She moderates personaly her forums. But mostly the one in German in English section as well, but rarely .... http://www.nina-hagen.com/ [ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: naira ] This posting of THOTH has been moved here from another thread.