MJ

I know, harut. I understood you properly. My arguments were directed not at you.

Maxjax, Yes, it is possible to reach Internet through regular phone lines in Yerevan. That's how most of the people do. However, its quality and reliability is not high. If you don't mind, I will move this thread to the Help forum.

Is this posting of yours there also a viewpoint, or a sneaky, shameful, undignified action of a pathological man lacking elementary honor abd ethics? “Posted By: Hakob (ts14-87.dialup.bol.ucla.edu) Date: Sunday, 1 July 2001, at 5:41 p.m. I was just finished chatting with an Armenian girl from Hayastan. I told her I was an Canadian girl. She believed it. And, I can't believe how bad Armenian men are towards their own women. I know Armenian men are just conforming to their traditional Middle Eastern norms. It is sad our own women do not love us anymore and that girl said she is waiting to find a foreigner to marry. Is this common with Iranian girls too? Perhaps our men should change their attitudes vis-a-vis their own women? Sad to hear her talk like that."

quote:Originally posted by Thorny Rose: MJ, remember? I had mentioned him to you... Yes, I remember.

quote:Originally posted by Mayja: I think that the only one state which cannot tolerate differences in the World is USA... This country thinks that the whole world belongs to it... You just led your army to a wasteland.

So, we are going to jump from one lie to another lie here, without taking responsibility for the previous ones?

How about the consecutive patriarchs of Jerusalem?

quote:Originally posted by oz: Oh God, now you start again... I had never stopped in the first place.

Do you always have to change the subject instead of standing for what you say. Every time you are asked to take responsibility for your statements, you move the “target.” Isn’t it a liar’s strategy?

You should be mad at yourself, OZ.

Karine, 10 years ago the world was a bipolar system. As far as the nuclear armory is concerned, it still remains so. In the last 8 years, the US government has not reformed its system to adjust its military doctrine to new realities. Current administration has undertaken the task of reforming the US military, and redesigning its military doctrine for the new realities. Additionally, the current administration has pledged to unilaterally and substantially cut its nuclear arsenal. This process is underway. In most of the areas the budget has been cut. More money has been allocated to raise the salaries of the personnel, to improve their living conditions, etc. I don’t have the details of where has the military budget shrank and where has it been increased. This issue is a subject of intense analysis and discussions, currently. The real priorities of this administration will be reflected perhaps in the next year’s budget. The US military is the most high-tech military in the world. Therefore, its expenditures are also high. The US military is not present anywhere without mutual agreement. It doesn’t occupy any countries. An exception is Yugoslavia. The US Congress was very much opposed to the introduction of forces to Yugoslavia. The President of the time made clear that he was going to introduce them anyway. However, the US Army was introduced to Yugoslavia upon the strong insistence from the European countries. The powerful voices of the US Congress were claiming at the time that Kosovo is European affair, and the Europeans should take care of it. However it didn’t happen. The current administration has expressed willingness to pull out the US forces from the region many times. The primary opponents of the pullout have been the European countries. As far as the Persian Golf is concerned, US has perhaps hundreds of billions of dollars investments in that region, and it has obligation to protect them from potential expropriation. Additionally, the US troops are stationed in countries of Persian Golf, which have voluntarily welcomed it. The same concerns Asia. I have noticed that in general the anti-Americanism is not based on rational thinking and arguments. It is rather based on envy, jealousy and hypocrisy. There are things in the American policy that I disagree with. But overall, America is a very dignified country, it is a positive force in the world affairs, and it is indeed a champion of Human Rights. It provides financial assistance to a great number of nations, and it is very insincere to claim that it does so out of considerations to import its values. American values penetrate all countries without an extra and sinister effort from the American side. It has been the case with the Soviet Union with an Iron Curtain, and it is the case even with Iraq. To cover their own failures, people always need somebody else to blame for it. It is not different with the states. The anti-American hysteria is growing especially in Europe. It was not like this while the USSR was around. Now Europe feels that it doesn’t need America, and it wants to compete with it. That’s fine. This world is built on competition. But the Europeans try to justify their inability to compete (perhaps due to their socialistic political system) by the American “expansionism.” It makes me feel that the well known “phantom” has not left Europe, yet.

quote:Originally posted by Mayja: .........MJ: You speak Arabic??? what is ur relation with islam?? just curious Do you need something to be transalted from Arabic? I am an agent of Islam, planted here by Osama Bin Ladin to detstroy the hegemnoy of the Western Civilization, including that of the US.

Harut, First of all, it is not so-called, right? It is a real religion with about 1 billion followers. Second, Mohammed was not some kind of Caliph or Prince to be in a position to unite the Arabs. And as far as at least the last millennium is concerned, Arabs have been (and remain) one of the most disunited people.

Alpha, Unfortunately, I have not read R. Hovahannisian’s book. Hopefully will do it some day. But given that he has been a student of Simon Vratsian, I don’t expect that his account to be contradictory to that of Vratsian’s. As far as the brevity and the militarism go, I think one can judge about them only during military operations. Around the dinner tables, over the Internet or against a weak enemy everybody is brave. But things frequently change in the battle-fields, or when the people close to you are jeopardized. This is a general comment, not directed at the people of Javakhk, in particular. The 1919 map of Armenia has not been drawn by the Armenian side but, rather, by the Allied forces. I am not aware of any formal note or request by the Armenian government to the government of Georgia at the time. In fact, the Armenian side has retreated in a time, when it could militarily take over these territories, as your previous note also suggests it. As to Georgia, it indeed has some serious internal problems. I hope that they would find the right framework for finding solution to their problems. And if we can help them to do so, we should not be hesitant, since the disintegration of Georgia is not in Armenia’s best interests. Javakhk may very well be economically oriented towards Armenia, and have some kind of special status within Georgia. But I think that just the federated structure of Georgia itself does not provide solution to its problems. The USSR was federated, or Karabagh had autonomy inside Azerbaijan. I believe something more than that in the economic sphere has to be done. And if that thing is done, many other problems might disappear as well. And as a matter of fact, Javakhk’s economy may very well be closely oriented towards Armenia, while it still would be and administrative territorial unit inside Georgia. In the modern world, assuming proper intergovernmental agreements of a free-trade style, etc, the administrative boundaries might not mean much. We have to also understand that if Javakhk was part of Armenia, per se, today, nothing would have changed in a positive direction for the Javakhetians. They would still straggle with the same socio-economic misery. [ July 07, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Very commendable move in the right direction. I think this is the first example of the kind to finance educational programs for startegic puposes, isn't it?

Thanks. Over the weekend I'll try to bring together a preliminary version of an appeal to the President of Armenia, and will present to the attention of the thread. Then we can make the necessary changes and the edits, and will go from there.

Aaron, When I said the Armenian Government has not contested Javakhk, I meant the government of the first Republic. Sorry if I have not been clear about it. Additionally, I am not aware of the Armenian government of the 2nd republic contesting it in the 20s and 30s. Have never heard of it. But, hey, if it has happened, that would be interesting to know. I think you are right and wrong about the relevance of something being part of the Armenian borders for 1000 or 1500 years. You are right that Javakhk is not unique in that sense. But you are wrong claiming that it is irrelevant. In fact, I would claim that the territorial organization of a region some 1000 or 1500 years ago is the most irrelevant issue from the political perspective, and nobody but the losers would care about it. It is a purely academic issue. Yerevan, as an Armenian territory, along with the rest of the Armenian territories of the first Republic, has been recognized through signing of diplomatic and other political documents by Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Russia, and a whole host of other countries, and through their declarations of their honoring of the sovereignty of the subsequent Armenian States as subjects of International Law within the given boundaries. This is what matters. The rest of it is good only for conversations around a coffee table, or the academic annals of the world history. I think this addresses also your comment about the latest wave of Armenian refugees from Erzrum to Javakhk. To summarize, there is only one argument speaking in favor of this or the other territory belonging to this or the other country – the bi-lateral or multilateral political agreements/treaties.

The issue here is not the interpretation but rather the integrity of the alleging side. If Quran doesn’t justify raping, the usage “by many Turks and Muslims of verses of Quran while raping” is of no relevance. Many Christians from all over the world, including those of Serbia, have raped Muslim women when the opportunity has been given. The rape goes with the armies and military conquests. Men who have been in war for extended period of times become animals. And they take on their victims at the very first opportunity. The human history is full of atrocities committed by Christians, Taoists, Judaists, pagans, etc. However, no mainstream religion on the earth encourages atrocities, and most of the atrocities are committed by non-religious people, though, frequently in the name of the religion.

Just one comment: the annexation of Javakhk to Georgia has taken place immediately after the decleration of the independence of Georgia in May, 1918. The Armenian side has not been happy about it, but has not contested. Simon Vratsian explains the event as one of who was quick enough to introduce its army on the territory of Javakhk. Additionally, the short lived military conflict between Armenia and Grogia has been initiated by the Goergian side by sending an armored train to the northern provinces of Armenia and bombarding the villages of the region. It was more of along the lines of Georgia having territorial claims regarding the northern provinces of Armenia. Such sentiments still exist in some small Georgian nationalistic groups. After 2-3 days of advancement into the Armenian territory, the governement of Armenia has ordered General Drastamat Ganayan to take care of the advancing detachments of the Georgian army. As a result, in few days, the detachments of the Armenia army under Ganayan's command have reached the outskirts of Tbilisi. They have been urged by the Ambassador of Germany in Georgia to return back to Armenia. In any case, no Amrenian governement, contrary to the case of Karabagh, has never contested Javakhk's territorial annexation to Georgia, though some empotions have existed. Last time Javakh has been inside Armenian borders might have been perhaps 1000-1500 years ago. [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Dear Karine, What worries me in the material above is its low quality of arguments. None of the “evidences” provided in the material may sustain elementary professional criticism, and the quality of the material doesn’t even allow it to qualify for a grotesque. The exodus of Azeris from Armenia was a process, which had started immediately after the Sumgait pogroms. The Azeris of Yerevan have moved out much later – primarily in the summer of 1989, if my memory doesn’t betray me. Some of the arguments about the volcanic lava are most ridiculous in the material. As we know, there have not been any active volcanoes in Armenia, so that to give rise to lava in the results of earthquakes. It is apparent that this material has not been written by a professional. I have spoken to some leading Armenian geologists and seismologists in Armenia, immediately after the earthquake. All they have confirmed that this has been a typical, classic earthquake by all its parameters. Only it has been too strong. They used to get furious or laugh at the allegations of the artificial causes of the earthquake. It is known, however, several countries, including USSR and USA, have possessed the technology to cause artificial earthquakes. A French encyclopedia published in 1989, which I have seen, provided information about such incidents, attributing to USSR such experiment in 1988. As far as the “missing” nuclear missiles from the territory of Armenia are concerned, I am highly suspicious of it. I am not sure that there have ever been nuclear missiles on the territory of Armenia in the first place. Don’t recall anything of the kind. Additionally, it is too naïve to assume that if, for the sake of the argument, USSR had used nuclear missiles in the North of Armenia, they were so stupid that didn’t know that 38-36=2. The human tragedy of the 1988 earthquake was enormous. During such tragedies people always come up with “mystery” and “conspiracy” stories. In that sense, we were not unique in the post 1988 era.

Unfortunately, Agassi lost to Rafter in the semi-finals.

Here is a confirmation (in Armenian) regarding not needing Visa to enter Georgia for Armenian citizens from the second friend from Armenia: سñïÇÝ Ñ³ñó¹ Ñëï³Ï ãѳëϳó³. Ù»Ýù ìñ³ëï³Ý ·ÝáõÙ »Ý Ù»ñ ³ÝÓݳ·ñáí ³½³ï, ù³ÝÇ áñ ³ÛÝï»Õ ϳ íǽ³, áñÁ ÃáõÛÉ ¿ ï³ÉÇë ³½³ï, ³é³Ýó Ññ³í»ñÇ ·Ý³É ìñ³ëï³Ý, èáõë³ëï³Ý ¨ ³ÛÉÝ. »Ã» ËáëùÁ í»ñ³µ»ñáõÙ ¿ ù»½, áñ ·³ë г۳ëï³Ý ¨ Ñ»ïá ·Ý³ë ìñ³ëï³Ý ³å³ ϳ 2 ÉáõÍáõÙ. ¹áõ ϳñáÕ »ë г۳ëï³ÝÇó áõñÇßÇ Ñ³ÛÏ³Ï³Ý ³ÝÓݳ·ñáí ·Ý³É ìñ³ëï³Ý. áñå»ë ²ØÜ-Ç ù³Õ³ù³óÇ å»ïù ¿ íǽ³ ëï³Ý³ë ù»½ ѳÛïÝÇ Ï³ñ·áí, û ëñ³ Ù³ëÇÝ ¿ ËáëùÁ, ³å³ »ë å»ïù ¿ ·Ý³Ù ìñ³ëï³ÝÇ ¹»ëå³Ý³ïáõÝ ¨ ѳñóÝ»Ù. ¹áõ ³ë³ ÇÝãÁ Ñ»ï³ùñùñí»Ù; ÇÝã í»ñ³µ»ñáõÙ ¿ ³Û¹ ÏÝÇùÁ Ë÷»ÉáõÝ ¹³ ϳñáÕ ¿ 40-50 ¹áɳñ ÉÇÝÇ, Ï×ßï»Ù; Ø»ñ ÙáïÇó ëáíáñ³µ³ñ ·ÝáõÙ »Ý áõñÇßÇ ³ÝÓݳ·ñáí ¨ ³é³Ýó ³í»Éáñ¹ åéáµÉ»ÙÝ»ñÇ;

quote:Originally posted by bellthecat: I don't know the author's name, but it is a publication by "Research on Armenian Architecture" I don't own a copy - but have looked at one. It is a big, hardback book, about 200 pages long. Steve Are you aware of any other sources with a credible evidence on the alleged state policy of Goergia?

It is a shameful practice to to present unfounded allegations in sensitive issues. It is equally shamefull to take things out of their context, and to delibirately misinform people. Moreover, important passages have been dropped. The tranlation of the Chapter 47, by ABDULLAH YUSUF ALI, one of the well recognised translators of Quran is below. The translation of the verse 4 shows that the previous translation communicated to our forum has been shamefully and deliberately taken out of the context. CHAPTER 47 Muhammad, Al Qitaal سورة محمد ( The Prophet Muhammad, The Fighting ) 47.1- الذين كفروا وصدوا عن سبيل الله اضل اعمالهم Those who reject God and hinder (men) from the Path of God,- their deeds will God render astray (from their mark). 47.2- والذين امنوا وعملوا الصالحات وامنوا بمانزل على محمد وهو الحق من ربهم كفر عنهم سيئاتهم واصلح بالهم But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition. 47.3- ذلك بان الذين كفروا اتبعوا الباطل وان الذين امنوا اتبعوا الحق من ربهم كذلك يضرب الله للناس امثالهم This because those who reject God follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does God set forth for men their lessons by similitudes. 47.4- فاذا لقيتم الذين كفروا فضرب الرقاب حتى اذا اثخنتموهم فشدوا الوثاق فاما منا بعد واما فداء حتى تضع الحرب اوزارها ذلك ولو يشاء الله لانتصر منهم ولكن ليبلو بعضكم ببعض والذين قتلوا في سبيل الله فلن يضل اعمالهم Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been God's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of God,- He will never let their deeds be lost. 47.5- سيهديهم ويصلح بالهم Soon will He guide them and improve their condition, 47.6- ويدخلهم الجنة عرفها لهم And admit them to the Garden which He has announced for them. 47.7- ياايها الذين امنوا ان تنصروا الله ينصركم ويثبت اقدامكم O ye who believe! If ye will aid (the cause of) God, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly. 47.8- والذين كفروا فتعسا لهم واضل اعمالهم But those who reject (God),- for them is destruction, and (God) will render their deeds astray (from their mark). 47.9- ذلك بانهم كرهوا ماانزل الله فاحبط اعمالهم That is because they hate the Revelation of God; so He has made their deeds fruitless. 47.10- افلم يسيروا في الارض فينظروا كيف كان عاقبة الذين من قبلهم دمر الله عليهم وللكافرين امثالها Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the End of those before them (who did evil)? God brought utter destruction on them, and similar (fates await) those who reject God. 47.11- ذلك بان الله مولى الذين امنوا وان الكافرين لامولى لهم That is because God is the Protector of those who believe, but those who reject God have no protector. 47.12- ان الله يدخل الذين امنوا وعملوا الصالحات جنات تجري من تحتها الانهار والذين كفروا يتمتعون وياكلون كما تاكل الانعام والنار مثوى لهم Verily God will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; while those who reject God will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode. 47.13- وكاين من قرية هي اشد قوة من قريتك التي اخرجتك اهلكناهم فلا ناصر لهم And how many cities, with more power than thy city which has driven thee out, have We destroyed (for their sins)? and there was none to aid them. 47.14- افمن كان على بينة من ربه كمن زين له سوء عمله واتبعوا اهواءهم Is then one who is on a clear (Path) from his Lord, no better than one to whom the evil of his conduct seems pleasing, and such as follow their own lusts? 47.15- مثل الجنة التي وعد المتقون فيها انهار من ماء غير اسن وانهار من لبن لم يتغير طعمه وانهار من خمر لذة للشاربين وانهار من عسل مصفى ولهم فيها من كل الثمرات ومغفرة من ربهم كمن هو خالد في النار وسقوا ماء حميما فقطع امعاءهم (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)? 47.16- ومنهم من يستمع اليك حتى اذا خرجوا من عندك قالوا للذين اوتوا العلم ماذا قال انفا اولئك الذين طبع الله على قلوبهم واتبعوا اهواءهم And among them are men who listen to thee, but in the end, when they go out from thee, they say to those who have received Knowledge, "What is it he said just then?" Such are men whose hearts God has sealed, and who follow their own lusts. 47.17- والذين اهتدوا زادهم هدى واتاهم تقواهم But to those who receive Guidance, He increases the (light of) Guidance, and bestows on them their Piety and Restraint (from evil). 47.18- فهل ينظرون الا الساعة ان تاتيهم بغتة فقد جاء اشراطها فانى لهم اذا جاءتهم ذكراهم Do they then only wait for the Hour,- that it should come on them of a sudden? But already have come some tokens thereof, and when it (actually) is on them, how can they benefit then by their admonition? 47.19- فاعلم انه لااله الاالله واستغفر لذنبك وللمؤمنين والمؤمنات والله يعلم متقلبكم ومثواكم Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for God knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes. 47.20- ويقول الذين امنوا لولا نزلت سورة فاذا انزلت سورة محكمة وذكر فيها القتال رايت الذين في قلوبهم مرض ينظرون اليك نظر المغشي عليه من الموت فاولى لهم Those who believe say, "Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?" But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them- 47.21- طاعة وقول معروف فاذا عزم الامر فلو صدقوا الله لكان خيرا لهم Were it to obey and say what is just, and when a matter is resolved on, it were best for them if they were true to God. 47.22- فهل عسيتم ان توليتم ان تفسدوا في الارض وتقطعوا ارحامكم Then, is it to be expected of you, if ye were put in authority, that ye will do mischief in the land, and break your ties of kith and kin? 47.23- اولئك الذين لعنهم الله فاصمهم واعمى ابصارهم Such are the men whom God has cursed for He has made them deaf and blinded their sight. 47.24- افلا يتدبرون القران ام على قلوب اقفالها Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them? 47.25- ان الذين ارتدوا على ادبارهم من بعد ماتبين لهم الهدى الشيطان سول لهم واملى لهم Those who turn back as apostates after Guidance was clearly shown to them,- the Evil One has instigated them and busied them up with false hopes. 47.26- ذلك بانهم قالوا للذين كرهوا مانزل الله سنطيعكم في بعض الامر والله يعلم اسرارهم This, because they said to those who hate what God has revealed, "We will obey you in part of (this) matter"; but God knows their (inner) secrets. 47.27- فكيف اذا توفتهم الملائكة يضربون وجوههم وادبارهم But how (will it be) when the angels take their souls at death, and smite their faces and their backs? 47.28- ذلك بانهم اتبعوا مااسخط الله وكرهوا رضوانه فاحبط اعمالهم This because they followed that which called forth the Wrath of God, and they hated God's good pleasure; so He made their deeds of no effect. 47.29- ام حسب الذين في قلوبهم مرض ان لن يخرج الله اضغانهم Or do those in whose hearts is a disease, think that God will not bring to light all their rancour? 47.30- ولو نشاء لاريناكهم فلعرفتهم بسيماهم ولتعرفنهم في لحن القول والله يعلم اعمالكم Had We so wiled, We could have shown them up to thee, and thou shouldst have known them by their marks: but surely thou wilt know them by the tone of their speech! And God knows all that ye do. 47.31- ولنبلونكم حتى نعلم المجاهدين منكم والصابرين ونبلوا اخباركم And We shall try you until We test those among you who strive their utmost and persevere in patience; and We shall try your reported (mettle). 47.32- ان الذين كفروا وصدوا عن سبيل الله وشاقوا الرسول من بعد ماتبين لهم الهدى لن يضروا الله شيئا وسيحبط اعمالهم Those who reject God, hinder (men) from the Path of God, and resist the Apostle, after Guidance has been clearly shown to them, will not injure God in the least, but He will make their deeds of no effect. 47.33- ياايها الذين امنوا اطيعوا الله واطيعوا الرسول ولاتبطلوا اعمالكم O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds! 47.34- ان الذين كفروا وصدوا عن سبيل الله ثم ماتوا وهم كفار فلن يغفر الله لهم Those who reject God, and hinder (men) from the Path of God, then die rejecting God,- God will not forgive them. 47.35- فلا تهنوا وتدعوا الى السلم وانتم الاعلون والله معكم ولن يتركم اعمالكم Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for God is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds. 47.36- انما الحياة الدنيا لعب ولهو وان تؤمنوا وتتقوا يؤتكم اجوركم ولايسألكم اموالكم The life of this world is but play and amusement: and if ye believe and guard against Evil, He will grant you your recompense, and will not ask you (to give up) your possessions. 47.37- ان يسألكموها فيحفكم تبخلوا ويخرج اضغانكم If He were to ask you for all of them, and press you, ye would covetously withhold, and He would bring out all your ill-feeling. 47.38- هاانتم هؤلاء تدعون لتنفقوا في سبيل الله فمنكم من يبخل ومن يبخل فانما يبخل عن نفسه والله الغني وانتم الغقراء وان تتولوا يستبدل قوما غيركم ثم لايكونوا امثالكم Behold, ye are those invited to spend (of your substance) in the Way of God: But among you are some that are niggardly. But any who are niggardly are so at the expense of their own souls. But God is free of all wants, and it is ye that are needy. If ye turn back (from the Path), He will substitute in your stead another people; then they would not be like you! http://mukhtar.home.mindspring.com/ P.S. I am also waiting to see some evidence that Islam encourages rape. [ July 06, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by alpha: After the Sovietization of Armenia, Stalin made Javakhk a part of Georgia, and gave Artsakh and Nakhichevan to Azerbaijan. This statement of the author is enough not to take him serious. Stalin has not given Javakhk to Georgia. Javakhk has not been part of the foirst Republic of Armenia, but has been a part of the first Republic of Georgia. One can at least read Simon Vratsian's "Republic of Armenia." Given that Vratsian was the last Prime Minister of Armenia (first Republic), and given the character of this statement, I think one can find his account in this regard credible.