MJ

Sorry, Movses. I didn't notice your previous suggestion before posting my reply to Vahan.

Vahan, I don’t understand your argument or the testimony about your cousins. Sorry. I thought I was exactly saying that leaving the country was impossible in the Soviet Times. I have to also let you know that other than some small details, there is not much that I have forgotten. Even the “Ankakhutiun, ankakhutiun…’ however, in case I didn’t make myself clear, I was saying that it was not “ZUYZER” which brought independence to Armenia. I don’t have any strong arguments regarding your explanation of the reasons of people leaving Armenia and the further such potential possibilities. However, I fail to understand if you are trying to say that if “Margarita had not spilled the milk,” people would’ve felt happier, or you are trying to say something else which I still fail to understand. P.S. BTW, could you turn the Cap Lock off, please?

Vahan, First, I disagree with you about the young people's readiness to join the Soviet army in the past. I happen to be a little older than you, I presume, and remember those times very well. One important observation is that at the time they had no choice - they could not leave the country and did not have even the luxury of contemplating weather to join the Soviet Army or not. There was no alternative. By your own admission, in our days other alternatives are available. However, all this is even irrelevant. Armenia did not choose to be independent. It became so due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Maybe this is one of the reasons that some people don't cherish its independence.

Dear Vahan, Just one question: Do you think that if Armenia was not independent, the economic and professional plight of our younger people would've been better at this time? Or do you think that they would've been better off by serving in somebody else’s army?

Dear Sip, I have to say that I appreciate your motivations and value your peacefulness. However, unfortunately, either you have not read my original material carefully, or the above mentioned values and mentality and the affiliation are foreign to you, which is regrettable, given the positiveness of your personality However, my current posting is not about you. Just would like to invite the attention of the forum to the first material of this thread, and then to the rest of the developments. Then..., as I said, "This clock cannot be fixed..."

Dear Boghos, From what I understand, the power ministries are still controlled by the clergy in Iran. The new President, despite his moderate views, has not been able to accomplish much. As to us playing our cards well, you know, I have always thought that of all the lousy things that we witness in Armenia, there is one thing which stands up as an excellent and coherent policy – the Foreign Policy. Therefore, I think it would be great if in and out of this forum, the self-assigned “experts” stay away and let the government of the Republic do its job. Running late to work...

quote:Originally posted by nairi:Dear MJ jan, Now you try. Nairi Sweetie… Why don’t you try it with Rubo. I sort-of have enough on my plate.

Dear Boghos, I agree that Saudi Arabi is going to be the “dark horse” of the region in the nearest future. According to the media, there are already discussions inside the US administration regarding the removal of the US forces from there. The extent of collaboration of Iran on terrorism related issues is not clear to me, however. For example, I read that in response to allegations of sheltering Al-Qaida members, Iran claims that it has “deported them to their countries of citizenship.” Obviously, however, a lot of people, especially the younger generation, which is absolute majority in Iran, strive for changes and westernization. However, I still don’t have confidence in where it may end up. But at this juncture in history, it seems like these are Iraq and Iran that are striving for weapons of mass destruction, which is going to make them the center of “attention” for quite some time. As we both agree, I think, turbulent times are ahead in the region, which is perhaps the most complicated one in the world - much like it has been throughout the whole history.

quote:Originally posted by Aaron:MJ and alpha did you read the article i told you about, Eduard you should read it too and tell me what you think Rubo i agree with you on what you said in your private message, i was still in Armenia during the early stages of the karabagh mouvement and even though a kid, i could feel the hype at the time. Reading this expert's work, i have the impression that it is very close of the official approach of Armenia to the problem, that of Kocharian, and i personnally think it is a good mutual compromise solution. Once again, i don't think the opponent will accept it. From what i hear coming out of Azerbaijanian media, their remedy of the problem is very different than the one we put forward. the topic seemed very intense and interesting enough for me to close the election parantheses and get back to it. will discuss later! Aaron, I haven't read it, yet. But since you don't think the opponent will accept it, I think it is not worth reading, then. There are far more rewarding intellectual exercises that I think I can engage in.

quote:Originally posted by Rubo:Stop your insults and I will do more paintings and less ripping your statements. Please don't paint... As idiotic as it is, you'd better continue your routine here. Let’s keep the Art for Artists. Sorry, Harut. Couldn't resist the temptation...

OK... So, our Village has two idiots now.... Astvadz errordits heru pahi..

Dear Ali, With regret I have to notice that nothing that you said in this thread sounds any different (other then the style of the delivery) than what I would expect an extreme Turkish nationalist would say. Please correct me if I am wrong. Do they say anything different than what you said above short of the general homophobic style of delivery? Also, if Talaat was alive today and was brought to justice in a civil court, how do you think he would've justified himself?

quote:Originally posted by Sip: Did I understand the definitions of unity correctly? Seaphan, Unfortunately, no. To the contrary, I think you have missed the entire point. First, because there was no attempt by me to define the concept of unity in my material. Unity as a concept was assumed by me to be well understood by default. The other developments in this thread constitute what one would call in Armenian "mtadzelu kulturaii batsakaiutiu," i.e. "absence of the culture of thinking" and can successfully qualify as an act of continuing verbal diarrhea.

Thank you for being so informative, Nairi.

Could someone get this hysterical schizo off of my back ?

Science - AP New Method for Elusive Math Problem Fri Aug 9,11:37 AM ET By RAJESH MAHAPATRA, Associated Press Writer Indian computer scientists said Friday they have solved a mathematical problem that has eluded researchers for 2,200 years — and could be crucial in modern times in improving computer configurations. Related Links • Press release (IIT) More on Yahoo! • Prime Numbers A three-member team of scientists at the Indian Institute of Technolgy in the northern Indian city of Kanpur have devised a method that will make no mistake in quickly determining a prime number — those that are divisible only by themselves and 1. Prime numbers hold the key to solving many mathematical problems and play an important a role in cryptography. Scientists have long worked on ways to improve methods to identify a prime number. Greek mathematician Eratosthenes was the first to raise this problem around 200 B.C., when he offered one way of determining whether a number is prime. Computer scientists and mathematicians have since devised many faster ways to solve the problem, but all such methods carry a small risk of error. Some methods occasionally fail to detect a prime number, while others may select a nonprime number. "Our algorithm is deterministic; it has no chance of committing any error," said Manindra Agrawal, the principal author of the formula. An algorithm is a set of instructions for solving a specific mathematical problem in a limited number of steps. Agrawal and his two associates — Neeraj Kayal and Nitin Saxena — have authored a paper detailing the formula, which was posted on their department's web site Sunday. Copies of the paper were also dispatched to leading computer scientists and mathematicians across the world. "We have received several responses. All of them have expressed satisfaction with the new algorithm," Agrawal told The Associated Press by telephone. "No one has doubted our claim," he said. The new algorithm will have no immediate applications, however, because current methods used in computers are faster. "We have used more steps than the current methods in use," explains Agrawal. "Our first objective was to find a method that is full proof. Now, I am sure other researchers, or may be some of us, will start asking how can the number of steps be cut down and make the computation faster." ___ On the Net: Department of Computer Sciences, Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur www.cse.iitk.ac.in http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...prime_numbers_1

Boghos, I agree very much with your assertions, except that I think the war with Iraq is very unlikely in the nearest future, unless Iraq does something truly outrageous - of the scale of the invasion of Kuwait. But, nevertheless, Iraq is the week nerve of the region, and the regional geopolitics is going to spiral around Iraq, in the near future. So far as the issue of Iraq exists, Turkey is going to be irreplaceable for the US, for example. The positioning of Iran in the region in this context is most unclear. So, I would predict a lot of realignment in the region in the coming decade. And in this context and in this period, God forbid Armenia is under the control of schizophrenics.

quote:Originally posted by nairi:MJ, have you ever heard of The Armenia Diaspora Conference? http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/ What do you think they're trying to accomplish? Nairi Dear Nairi, Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I especially liked the photo. Since you have already read the material, I presume, could you please tell me/us what is it about. Otherwise the list of things that I am referred to keeps growing.

In and outside this forum we frequently hear/pronounce slogans of unity. It is interesting that a nation with about 4000 years history (as we claim it) still has such an issue to resolve. At the risk of repeating myself for the four thousandth time, in this forum, I would like to restate that unity doesn’t just happen. It happens around some cause or an overwhelming idea. To me (and I am not important unless am representative of a very significant chunk of like-minded Armenians), the only unity that can be established is around the aspirations for the future of the Republic of Armenia. No myth of Great Armenia or Western Armenia may unite me with someone who in a classic action of cowardice runs away from the reality of the Republic, however bitter that reality may be, and opts for something mythical and esoteric, which practically never has existed on such capacity. And no “common enemy” may unite us, I think, since for those who are relevant in the context of the future of Armenia, the unity builds around the positive outlook for its future, not the heavy burden of its past. In the view of all this, I am going to opt for disunity amongst Armenians rather than unity, since I think the perimeters of useful unity are defined by the outlook for the Republic for its future, and it is in its best interests to “chop the rope,” the other end of which is the heavy stone dragging it down. This is called “cut the loses.”

Boghos, Indeed. As it appears, this “lands’” business belongs to the list of Armenian schizophrenias. There are those amongst us who look at the maps of historic Armenia, and get kick out of it, and unless they see a comparable current map of Armenia, they cannot feel “important.” It is obvious that the foolishness of the unification of Karabagh with Armenia and its full independence is well understood by the relevant circles – both in Armenia and Azerbaijan, but most importantly in Karabagh. Obviously, it is much more so in the international community. From the declarations of the Government of Karabagh, it is also obvious that they are seriously considering some compromise solution. The issue perhaps comes down to what type of compromise would be acceptable to both sides. It is a very difficult subject for contemplation. I think that the issue is still not ripe for resolution and it will continue the misery on both sides. It has been well understood in relevant circles all along that Karabagh will never become part of Armenia (unless a miracle an example of which is not known to us throughout the Armenian history), and it will never become a subject of International Law. Under the best scenario some compromise solution would be worked out. The issue is how compromising the compromise would be. Evidently, the Independent Republic of Armenia never declared Karabagh as its integral part, despite the significant pressure from inside and outside the country. First, it was qualified as treason (“davatjanutiun”) by the first President of the Republic, and people opted for another one. Now, the second President, who has always been at the forefronts of the Karabagh liberation movement, has not done it either, and has continued, literally, his predecessor’s policy. Seems like the allegations of “davatjanutiun” have stopped, however. I also would like to join you in asserting that the very existence of the Republic of Armenia is endangered in perspective, unless its economy can be put back on tolerable, at least, tracks. Additionally, it is desperately short of a moral boost. However, I think very little depends on Armenia (or Karabagh, or even Azerbaijan and Turkey) at this juncture in history. In my view, our issues may be resolved only in the context of global regional processes and cooperation. At this time in history, it means the issue depends on the clash of the European and US interests in the global region, since the only solution that I can see is in the context of Globalization.

quote:Originally posted by aurguplu: I would like to respond to an earlier material of yours, to which I could not respond earlier due to time limitations. You have asked, “would there be an armenian revolutionary movement if the russians, the french and the british had not inspired, agitated, encouraged, proselytised, educated, financed, and armed the armenians against the turks? “ My answer is yes there would’ve possibly been. The reason of Armenians’ “Rebellion” (which has not existed) was not the European or the Russian support, but their lousy living conditions under the Ottoman rule. Also, wherever Armenians have been armed (like in Van), they have not been slaughtered but through resistance have been able to save the lives of significant numbers. I would also like to invite your attention that as others, you call the Armenian activists Revolutionaries and not Liberators (though in the past, occasionally you have used the term “separatists.”) Revolutionaries are not separatists. They try to improve the country they leave in. In this sense, there was no difference between the Armenian Revolutionaries and the Young Turks. I think later in your material you sort of agree with these arguments. About the “separatist agenda.” I wish you where right. Additionally, I would like to add that separatists are those who want to separate lands from a host country. Few Armenians wanted their own lands back. It is disingenuous to call such “separatists.” I also agree with your arguments that the West has not been saint, either. However, the west recognizes its lack of sanctity, does not hold the victim responsible for being victim, does not continue its vandalism, and does not demand that its once victims drop any conversations about their claims, or else… This is what makes the genocide a contemporary issue. Otherwise, it would have belonged to the pages of history. The rest of your material can be qualified as you saying, “We are strong and you are week. If you can, come and fight us.” Well, that was always well understood. But we still want to think in terms of “goodness” and “badness.” Hope it is not too much to expect from the Turks. It has nothing to do with what we feel about the Turks (I don’t mean individual Turks but the nation in its entirety). And it is not because of being naive. We just have genuine interest in living next to a civilized country. I also remember you quoting me somewhere, and claiming that in “cold blood calculations, Armenian Revolutionaries have provoked massacres of Armenians hoping that Europeans will come to help.” While I might’ve claimed that some Revolutionaries have acted in cold blooded calculations, I have never meant to say that this has been a determining strategy explaining the massacres or the Genocide. Additionally, I have not meant to say that they -those of them who have adhered to such mentality, have done it out of “European” considerations. I have just meant that they have tried to awaken the Armenians – without much result, anyway.

Dear Aaron, Thank you for your reference. I will read the material on Karabagh at my earliest opportunity. It seems to be an extensive one. I would like to clarify something, here, however. If my remarks are understood as negative attitude towards armed resistance in the late 19th century and onwards, then it is a mistake. To the contrary, I think the armed resistance was the ultimate remedy for the liberation of Armenia. My criticism towards of the Revolutionaries is more about the terrible execution which lacked maturity and subjected 1.5 million people to slaughter and more to misery for generations to come. I also agree that Armenians where not ready for rebellion. The Revolutionaries tried everything to wake the nation up, but they failed. They even didn't mind provoking massacres of Armenians hoping that it would infuriate Armenians and make them appeal to arms. Even this didn't work. (Actually, I was in the middle of addressing some of these issues in response to some of Ali's latest materials. But decided to spend a day on the beech, instead). In fact, as I have claimed in the forum before, at the time the Armenian nation had long stopped to exist by becoming a mere religious minority, and the result of the Revolutionaries' attempts was a total fiasco. And as I have also claimed, it was the Genocide that awakened Armenians decades later (partially). I would also like to make one last comment on this subject. Have you ever thought why the people subject to discussion where called Revolutionaries and not Liberators? I think this is an important issue to understand and its understanding may shed light into the strong resentment I feel towards them. P.S. Meant on the beach, above. [ August 10, 2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by Eduard Markosyan:Do you know James Russell, Nina Garsoian, Romald Suni. Those are the people who spread lies about our history. Those are the people who think the way you do. If you see the reason of our genocide in ARF actions, then you truly are an ANTI-ARMENIAN. I presume this was addressed to me. I happaen to know well Suni, personally, and have read some good works from Nina Garsoian - in particular, The Paulician Heresy. Don't know much about Russell. I think Garsoian and Suni are highest level professionals deserving utmost respect. And if they say something that one considers to be "lies," that is only a statement about that person. As far as the role of ARF and Hnchags in the Genocide is concerned, they definitely have had role in it. However, I don't recall anyone ever saying in this forum that the Genocide has been caused by them.

quote:Originally posted by hagarag:MJ, The "angels" are what sits on your shouders when you are praying. "Angles" are what add up to 180 degrees in a triangle. Your angels may be sitting in your triangle but mine are speaking to me telepathically. Yes, my angel.

quote:Originally posted by hagarag:MJ, Nevertheless, your snide comment is not appreciated. I tested in the 180 IQ range in grade school ... Khodja, The number 180 that you remember from your grade school was the sum of the inner angels of the triangle.