hagopn

Ah, we are in violent agreement on the tone of her voice--- My wifes make me shut the volume and watch her video with minimm volume--- LOL. The confusion of times and costume.... HMMMM. -- Well, that is an interesting angle. Sure, the scene is a rustic one, one that attempts to take you back in time, showing a young couple in courtship, then in the next song in engagement, then in the next song in a wedding, and then the lullaby shows the same couple with a baby in a swaddle being lulled to sleep. I personally understand his intent, and I like his skills in cinematography. You don't agree with the chosen setting. You are certainly entitled to want a more modern setting. He has another video that is about a contemporary couple in the city, in ann urban setting, and the singer, Aida, reminisces her own love in the past.. It's a mini movie or a sort, and it works for me. The song is nice as well, slow "estrada" style of Artem Ayvazyan sort. I personally like it.

Thank you for your input. It is valuable because you are young and energetic, and you are right. Youth, energy, vitality, this is what brings about culture, but also tradition, wisdom, heroism, memory, respect, color, beauty, land, people, nature... These are all our culture, and we have a damn good one. My main point of concern is the lack production quality, quality, and more quality. To see my point, (in case you have not) look at this video as it is intended to be a preseentation of a legend, a folk tale, a story where children are opening a Heroic story of warrior, beautiful princesses, and so on http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=682 All jokes aside, if you want dancing girls and young men jumping around, there are lots and lots of those videos, but they are cheap pop videos. If you are, however, asking for a fresh, vibrant genuinly ARMENIAN cultural presentation, then, yes, that's what I want too. That is precisely the reason I started with the Kohar critique. You are right, very correct.

լաւ, արդեն գիտեմ ինձ չես սիրելու Սկսեմնրանով որ մշակումը սինթեզային եֆեկտների և զուռնայի վրա է նստած: պարային րիթմ չի հնչում: Չկա: Կորել է սինթեզի տակ: Ինձնից աւել քոչարի սիրող ու պարող քիչ կճարես, բայց սրա տակ ես չեմ կարա պարել: Ոչ թե չեմ ուզենա; Չեմ կարա, քանի որ ինձ չի տանում այնտեղ, որտեղ պարն է ուզում տանել: Աւելորդ սինկոպներ են դրել, ու խեղդել են շարժումը «զարմացնելու» միտումով: Զուռնաները մի տեղ սաստիկ ձեւի ծուր նոտա են պահել, ու երկար են պահել: Նկարահանումը չոր, դեղնած, թարամած խոտի վրա է, քարքարոտ մի փոքր բլուրի ստորոտում: Ոչ հիացնող է, ոչ ներշնչանքի պատճառ: Պարողների նկարահանումը ֆոկուսից դուրս է շատ ժամանակ: Չարժումները ու պարը անհասկանալի, ազդեցությունը թույլ: Ես սա չեի ներկայացնոի ածշխարհին: Հետ գնում եմ վրացկանին, տեսնում եմ հստակ սցենար, հստակ նկարահանում, հստակ երգեցողութիւն, հստակ ձայնագրություն, ւ այլն: Իհարկե ես նախընտրում եմ քոչարի: Ես ազգայնամօլ մարդ եմ-- բայց ես ուզում եմ որ վրացիներից լավ անենք: Ու գիտեմ որ կարող ենք անել, բայց դեռ չենք արել: Կնեերես, աղբերս, բայց դա է իմ կարծիքը: Պար սիրում եմ; Պարողներին սիրում եմ: Գործը չսրիեցի: Նպատակը շատ սիրեցի:

This is misleading. I am not comparing artists to each other who happen to be in different genres. I am comparing the value of the work of some in national culture, versus others. Contrary to subsequent responses I get from these forums, ruben, Arthur, etc are falsely represented in our media outlets as «զտարյուն հայկական» բլա բլա: For example, another Rubenoid/Arthuroid guitar "chansonist" named Armen Movsisyan was only recently presented to television audiences as «զտարյուն հայկանա արվեստի ներկայացուցիչ» եըայլն: I agree with you that the works of these singers, Arthur M, Ruben H, and so on are not intended to be Armenian artforms. They are their own individual choice of genre, their own chosen manner of preseneting their poetry, their պատրանք, in Rubo's case a local Yerevan nostalgic yearning kind of deal, and in Artur an outdated political moment that he keeps on trying to revive. This works for a small minority to have their moment of poetry, of inspiration, of politically atavistic moments, but they are only ever going to reach their niche audeinces. Aida is a folk singer. She was not so folksy, and later she discovered (after talking to me and musician friends), that she needs to change her ways--- She did, and she became somewhat of a success, but, again, her contribution is at least minimal in the folk genre. I don't consider her as "phenomenal," and, as I have said, I don't compare her to Arthur at the personality, talent, or individual level. That would be folly. I compare them only in terms of their genres and the degree of relevance to the quest of presenting ARMENIAN culture to the world. Personally, I wouldn't present Aida to the world, but I would most definitely present the man who directs and produces her videos, Hrand Movsesyan. He is really good, really good, and as the matter of fact Hrand M's work was the focus and reason I brought Aida to the table. ironically, it was not necessarily Aida herself.

աստված 200 միլիոն Եվրո տայ, աղբե՜ր Հավատա ամեն որ փորձում եմ ձեւ գտնել որ գամ, բայց չի ստացվում: Հիմա օրինակ գրում եմ ու server upgradeներ եմ անում-- նրա համար է որ գրելու հավես ունեմ մի քանի որ: Մի վախեցի, կանգնելու եմ շուտով:--

Dear friend, you misunderstand me. I don't compare Aida Sargsyan's personality, intellect, poetry, or any other facet of Aida Sargsyan to Arthur Meschian. I compare the presentation of her songs in the very well made videoclips, and her choice of repertiore, which is Armenian folk. Yes, it is Armenian folk. Her video director is a phenomenal talent named Hrand Movsesyan, and his work in our folk genre is amazingly rich and siverse. Yet, he does not get attention or the budget because he chooses to gto the folk route for the most part. Arthur Meschian was not necessarily compared in any term except his choice of a genre. His style of singing is irrelevant and weak, but his focus and the niche audience he has have earned him respect and success. Of course, this was mainly done with help from a phenomenal poet named Mushegh Ishkhan in the heyday of the Arakyalner. This is where he got his hot spot, his limelight, with Mushegh Ishkhan at his side, and after that he has maintained a loyal following but has not gained popularity. Intellectually, I wouldn't dare compare Arthus Meschian with Aida. They are worlds apart, with Artur clearly on the elite side, but, yet again I say, Artur is himself, but he is not Armenian culture or civilization. He is at most a very political moment thanks to his poet friends who were indeed good poets. My critique is in or lack of presentation of Armenian culture. It is aimed at the fact that Armenians have an incredibly rich reservoire of culture, but they do not present it to the world with enough competence and beauty. This is a civilization that, in my opinion, goes back at least 4700 years of advanced development, but the best we can do is what we have now? Nonsense!

Հասկանում եմ, ու համաձայնվում եմ նրան թէ Արթուրի իսկական արժեքն ինչ է: Բայց, աղբեր, մի ասա սրանք, Վրացիք, լաւ գործ չեն արել, լաւ աղբեր ջան: Առաձնային մակարտակի վրայ են: Մենք չենք ներկայացնում մեզ ոնց որ իրենք են անում: Եւ գիտե՞ս ովքեր են երգում: Կախեթեիա-ի երգչախումբը, որոնց դիմագծերից արդեն հասկացվում է սրանց ՀԱՅ ծագում ունենալը: Առասպել են նկարել երգով, աղբեր ջան, ու հայկական մշակոյթն էլ մխրճել են եջը իրենց անունի տակ: Մանացածը որ շատ են աստղացվում, շեղում են: Ներկայացվում են որպես «ագային արվեստ», իհակառակա քո ասածին, ու վնաս է բերում դա:

Ya--- Meschyanin yes chem sirum, tsavt tanem. Im hamar edzi nman e yerkum. hargum em ir dern u dirke, bayts sahmanapakum em ir dern ir dirke vortegh vor petk e lini. Inke lavn e ir massai hamar, bayts ink@ bavararogh@, hpartutyan ararka chi. Norith nayi sa Vratschikneri arats@ u haskatsi vorteghits em galis--- http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=682 Meshyani genre-@ Shat a otaratsats im hamar, u shegum e ketits. Լաւ է, հայերենովս գրեմ-- Արթուրը ձեր սրտում իր տեղը միշտ թող ունենայ, բայց ես երբեք չեմ սիրելու այդ մոտեցումն ու վոճը, որ ինձ համար ոչ հայկական երեվոյթ է:

It's not Armenian in character in the least. Hamlet's chosen genre is centered around the Gyumri/Alexandropol gusakan tradition, and that is perhaps why his songs sound similar in improvisation. Yet at least he is sourcing from something that is Armenian. Nune is a lounge singer who turned instant star because she sang the standard national folk repertoire that the diaspora was missing. This was the case because everywhere you could only hear Tatul, Aram Assatryan, and others copying foreign songs and singing them very very badly. Nune's timing was good, and she struck it rich for a while. No one was doing what she did at the time. What is Ruben Hakhverdian's contribution? To me nothing. His late father was a good literary critic and professor of literature. I have his papa's books here, and enjoy his insight in our "literatura," but Rubo sounds like an Armenian version of Leonard Cohen, and quite frankly that is good for a niche crowd, but does not make him a folk hero. Same with Arthus M. That's what bothers me.

I described Meschian as I see and hear him. He sings with self-importance and arrogance. He is backed by good poets, but his music is flat, his singing style is ridiculously irritating and goatlike. Ruben Hakhverdian is a drunk who is the Leonard Cohen replica for Armenians. He is a poet of mediocre caliber whose focus is his local Yerevan neighborhood, nostalgia, nostalgia, yet more nostalgia, but he is not a great artist. We need more. We need strong stuff. Georgians are putting out good stuff. We are not.

Now look at this sales pitch. http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=682 Did this video really, really sell Georgian music well? Georgians seem like these "mighty warrior people" who have "this rich legend and folk culture" and so on. To me I know better. I remember things like the day the Georgians were faced with humiliating military defeat against Armenians (when Armenians were newly recovering from full scale battles against numerically superior Turks and Turko-Azeris), but couldn't live up to it. So they decided to capture some local Armenian civilians in Tiflis, dress them up in fake military clothes, and parade them in Tiflis as "prisoners of war." This is what Georgian means to me, but in this video, people in general will think Georgians are indeed this remarkable people with (Armnian) churches, (Armenian) built bridges, (Armenian) built culture, (Armenian) kings, (Armenian developed) alphabet.

I didn't type the above as intended. Now please read the edited version of my response- Now look at this and tell me what stupid music and dance is made to look good because of production, production, production http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=682 The music itself is stupid, and the dance is non-existent as a dance form, but the stage production makes the thing look good!-- Kohar was full of good music, beautiful songs, rich culture, but no PRODUCTION, NO DELIVERY.

Don't be shocked. I am sure it sounded good to you. It sounded bad to me, I mean Kohar. The video above is demonstration of professional directorship, professional delivery, up-do-date stage presence, showmanship. sound-stage direction, lighting, ----> Kohar was like flat beer.

Αh, this is a debate---

And now compare Kohar with this http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=680 There is no comparison. I don't mean the mediocrity of the music. I mean the delivery! It's professional delivery, although intrinsically boring and drunk out of repetitive mind, just like every Վրացի էշ աւանակ տաւարագլուխ friend I have had. Մենք աւելի սիրուն մշակութային հիմքերու վրայ նստած ազգ ենք, բայց միշտ ու միշտ խյար և պանիր ենք ծախում:

Oh sure--- Hamlet Gevorkyan is really good at that Goosanakan stuff, http://www.altimod.net/altimod/Hhbd2BlP0e0...n-jeyranes-dues Ruben Kakobyan (about whom I've posted), http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=16...mp;#entry215026 Sirush"o" tried for a while, but she was discovered as being too much so bubble-gumized. But her "Shorora" is not bad, but she tries too hard to play the "ornamentalist." Maybe she'll get it one day, but she has the innate talent if she wakes up to it. Here is shorora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdmnplI6VSk, but the arrangement is too "popsy-wopsy, Al Jarrreaussiki-tiki. Nune, when she was normal in the head, was good. Aida Sargsyan is not bad, not bad at all. In the "americanized pop" crap genre, we have the dime-a-դիւզենե ջրիկ-մրիկ output, but no դիւզ-բիբեր as of yet. Some of the middle road stuff comes from that tall guy, the հարիւր տարի chap, http://www.hamovhotov.com/videos/?p=1711 Արամո. He's Օ Ք.

You are most correct. Believe it or not, I did it just for the enjoyment of this... just this time around. I've been avoiding this topic like the bubonic plague since the beginning--

No, no, they just stay there on the bookstore shelves for people who haven't gotten DSL yet to stare at for a while per diem. --

"Ekuzkuz me" as a good պալսահայ ոսկերիչ would say, just what the hell is she? her father dies, and she goes "Paris Hilton" on the world? what sort of famly is this? So those cheesy cover photos now make her a "celebrity" in this day and age when a cannibal like, what hell was his name, becomes a household name as well. Come to think of it, this airhead's timing is simply stupendous. Hello, you cheese faced publicists for Kim Kardeeeeyyyshyun ("Kim kimeh, sikkim ghafa bittim" as the թրքախոս հայեր would say), tell her that I think she's a pathetic airhead who's head I would like to make an offering to the Borneo natives for their "Interior decoration" annual head impaling contests. And, no, contrary to your populiarized and nauseatingly repeated opinion, your butt is not Armenian looking. Quit bragging about your butt, for crying out, ա՜յ էշ, that's even more embarrasing. You are NOT allowed by us to be ethnocentric about your butt.

That tells you how much Yankees are loved, especially their soldiers, marines, and other "likeables." In Germany the Polizei were looking, itching for excuses to beat the hell out of US troops. When you're in Germany at, say, Oktoberfest, and a fight breaks out among drunks, you can bet they are American troops. Then you will see Polizei come in with the clubs and whack away. They should ask Okinawans!--- It would probalby be in the 3 digits--

I will not---

That's an unfortunate truth. Political awareness is low. Dashnaks are not the devils, but they are not the saints. Particularly the memoirs of Zavarian are revealing on just how short-sihgted the Dashnaks were in their so-called heyday. The Dashnaks in the 1920s still boasted of their "aggressive stance," that was tantamount to nothing but total political stupidity. Indeed, as another sign of total immaturity, Dashnaks and Hnchaks were shooting it out in Beirut in the 1950s, being a total embarassment to Armeniandom. It is as if the spirit of Joey McCarthy had infected our partisans and ws cause to shoot at each other. Dashnaks were selling off their competitors to the French Mandate in Syria in the 1920s and 1930s as "Communist collaborators," and so on and so forth. In the 1947 ներգաղթ Hnchak reps were sending people to Armenia, while they themselves were not going. I find it disturbing that Dashnak membership is a "boy scout birth" thing versus conscious party affiliation based on knowledge of platform, knowledge of actual governmet participation and orientation on key issues, and so on. A 3-year-old Dashnak scout is not the most conducive manner of maintaining mature political climate. As the matter of fact, I would wager that the dashnak leadership (as any other so-called "traditional" party - which is a ridiculous label) prefer that there is no vote for membership. People are bred to be part of the given group in the diaspora. rarely, if ever, do you see conscious participation in party politics. The only reason that non-Dashnaks ever join the ANCA, for example, is as a conscious choice to pursue justice by way of lobbying for support for Armenia, genocide recognition, and other key issues. Otherwise, if you ask them what their reasoning is for joning the dashnak ranks, they will look at you with indignation and deny memership in the party. In other words, objectivity in domestic party politics is certainly lacking. The least is true that we know genocide occurred, we accept that Armenia should exist and be strengthened. These are good points to unite on, at least form a consensus on. However, maintaining separate churches, separate schools sytems based on party affiliations, and other such divisive and expensive nonsense needs to be thrown out like dog crud. Dashnaks were not better or worse. They were not perfect, nor did they know what the hell they were doing overall, as did not any hothead revolutionary of the time. Why else would have read the banner "Vote for Ittihad!" being carried by Dashnaks. Dashnaks started as agitators trying to get attention for murderous regime and its ethnic cleansing policies. It was a natural but immature reaction to extreme injustice and dire conditions, but the "hothead revys" soon joined the ranks of the merkantile ambitious who merely opted for a "constitutionally reformed Ottoman empire". Why else were dashnak leader Krikor Zohrab "Effendi" and Tala'at such chummy pals? A can of worms this is. I bet this has been discussed a billion times on this forum and others, but, then again, until there is serious self-reflection and autocriticism, serious progress in the political realm, there is no need to stop pointing out our shortfalls. Right now, it is true that we are in the condition as a people who simply judge our assets as liabilities and vis versa due to incorrect priorities imposed by mostly incompetent political leaders.

On the ամ/am deal. The reason the Nikolai Marr even embarked on his ambitious (and career-wise, disastrously costly) Japhetian theory was precisely due to the strange fact that semitic and indo-european seem to have the same nostratic root language. What was Marr's conclusion, since he no longer saw the point is separating languages into separate families under the Sprachbund assumption? He decided that the so-called language families are merely developmental stratum due to the cultural setting each stratum had to adapt to. Thus, any term that is a call for "fulfillment of a desire, yearly cycle, birth/death cycle, motherhood," and so on, anything to do with "Am" is prevalent in both IE and Semitic. "Faith, belief, trust," are mere offshoots of the same concept of "mother's wish, fulfillment of the motherly [life/death] cycle" and so on. Am is mother. Am, An, Anna, Ani, all these are roots for mother. Ameak, the year, the completion of the annual cycle (the latin root anno, same root) "Amin" was thought by Dumezil to mean "the desires of the moon," since "am" or "ama" is also a reference to the moon as a symbol of this motherly cycle. Ar-am, the very pairing of the oposites in one name, since mythology has played the shift in who dominates. Otto Ranck exploited Marr's thoughts and applied the same idea to Myths as to language; i.e. myths change as society changes, and so language changes, and all of its lecxical and semantic application to life and existence changes simultaenously. This is not to say that Marr proved his theory to the hilt. He did not. (But, curiously enough, Ranck's thoughts caught on, and comparatve and developmental mythology is a respected idea). This is obviously not a one man venture. However, I am just pointing out one of the reasons that compelled him to feel this way and to jump on this theory. The very name Sem/Shem/Sim is Armenian in origin. To those who object to the ethnicity link, I say that it is at least Armenian geographically and very possible ethnically. (Hey, accord to the well-known and not-so-well known myths, even Japanese myths, things began from our mountains.) So, when J. Hawkes once said "Assyrian is partly rooted as a culture in the north, and the oldest cultural stratum in Assur is Hurri-Mittanian, or of the Armenian highlands." So it goes.

And, you cannot find the name Grigor in Koriun's writings. Why? Grigor was either truly an insignificant barb, or he ws hated by Mashtots' and Koriun's faction due to his anti-Armenian deeds.

My view is that Mashtots, having come from an area where pre-Christian priesthood was concentrated and hetanos activity was at its peak in Armenia, invented 36 letters to comform to pagan beliefs. I don't think that 3-4 generations knocked the Armenian out of Armenians. The Greeks are plauged with diphthongs, but they refused to goes beyond the 24 letter mark due to pagan beliefs. Multiples of 12, 24, 36, these are pagan numbers.