neko

That was a beautifully written piece, and a beautiful translation Aubépine. Know anything about the "Sertaç" person who authored it? http://www.ikideli.com/2007/01/22/hrant-di...9in-ayakkabisi/

The financing of the Kars Akhalkalak rail link by Azerbaijan indicates that Azerbaijan sees its creation as another aspect of its war against Armenia. However transport, like water, always finds the easiest route. If there is an economic requirement for a rail link between Georgia and Turkey then the rail link will flourish, if there is no requirement then no amount of Azeri manats will make it successful. The Kars Gyumri rail ling was constructed in the context of the caucasus being united within the Russian Empire and then within the Soviet Union. That context no longer exists, so even if the Gyumri-Kars link was still operating it would be unreasonable to expect it to remain the sole link if there was an economic reason for two to exist. So either the Azeris are going to waste their money financing a white elephant, or they are going to waste their money on a project that at some time in thefuture would have gone ahead anyway without them.

Strange, this continuing Armenian attachment for that particular bronze statue fragment. Strange given that it is certainly Greek, was found outside Armenia (at Satala, a legionary fort), and is actually a bust of Aphrodite, (or maybe even Dionysos ). As in "render unto Caeser....". Well it didn't work for Jesus, so it certainly isn't going to work for you. And I think that the Central Bank of Armenia would have difficulty working out the exchange rate for Tigran's tetradrachms against their drams.

That's probably about right for the 1915/1916 years. However, I think you might have understood by now - most Armenians here aren't really interested in seeing Turkish acknowledgement of the genocide on a personal level or at State level. Actually a great many returned, the majority of those who survived the genocide returned or tried to.

If the WW1 genocide of Turkey's Armenians is still difficult to be talk about in Turkey, then talking about what happened to the survivors in the post-WW1 period is completely taboo. This is because it exposes the direct involvement of the Turkish Republic in the Armenian genocide. For this period there are no excuses that Turkey can dream up, no hiding places for Turkey to escape to. Armenians also don't seem very interested in exploring this period. Some prefer the sound-bite approach to history, and everything "1915" falls into that category. Maybe a few also realise that in the context of wanting official Turkish recognition of the Genocide, this post-WW1 period genocide should remain in darkness until the main 1915 events are admitted to. Turkey probably will not admit to the 1915 genocide if they see it will eventually lead to them having to acknowledge all of the horrendous crimes the Turkish state committed against Armenians into the 1920s.

He proved that Armenian genocide did not happen basing on the historical documents kept in some of archives of European countries. His little "genocide section" (or "Relocation" as he of course calls it) is about 12 pages long, and doesn't mention a single historical document - the rest of the book basically is a love-letter about these wonderful perfect beings called Turks, and how awful everyone who isn't Turkish is, and how the most awful of all are Armenians. It is really a book full of various and varied photographs with laughable photo-captions. A sample: "View from the castle rock of Van, which was destroyed by the Armenians in 1915" "Happy children, fresh clean water, shepherds with their flocks, freedom ... this has been the Turkish Anatolian way of life since time immemorial." "Unfortunately for all concerned the extreme nationalism of the Armenian leaders prevented the people from continuing to live together with the other peoples and tribes of eastern Anatolia." "With thefall of the Ottoman Empire, the world lost one of the greatest, most noble multi-nation states that had ever existed" And so on.

Strange isn't it that some Armenians shout out a lot about their culture being of "World importance" when it suits them (mostly when they want that World to protect Armenian artefacts located outside of Armenia), but then claim that it of only national importance when that also suits them. International lending between museums and galleries are vital for the holding of exhibitions. A country's cultural artefacts are also important tools for international diplomacy, indicative of that country's confidence, prestige, and power on the World stage. This is something that Turkey has fully understood for decades, enabling numerous spectacular international exhibitions of Turkish Art (most of which isn't really "Turkish" at all) to be hosted in the capitals of Europe and America. All that seems to be lost on the likes of little Chookaszyan. But I suppose a self-imposed cultural isolationism is in keeping with Armenia's economic isolation these days - no land border opening, restrictive visas, no oil pipeline, no electricity export, no railway links, etc.

Check out the third picture on this page on ebay

Is Nelly a Greek name? The only occassion I have seen it before is for the name of a famous Greek photographer who was born in Turkey before WW1. There were many Greeks living in Kars befre 1920, btw.

Ooops. You are right - I think it is Radikal I am thinking of!

But implicit in that anti-assasination protest must be a protest against the sort of society that encourages such assasinations.

Foreign commentators on Turkey just like to use the phrase "Deep State" a lot because it makes them appear clever and knowledgeable about Turkey.

I thought that Zaman was a left-wing newspaper (left-wing in relation to other mainstream Turkish newspapers anyway) and was consistantly critical of fundamentalist Islam and its growing influence in Turkey? Or am I thinking of another newspaper??

Sorry, I thought that you were trying to make exactly the opposite point (that language change proves a population change).

I know! The original translation said "ugly". Don't know who did that translation. It's the same as "I killed the gavur" being rendered as "I killed the non-Muslim".

One language can be replaced by another without the actual population being replaced.

Istanbul church vandalised with grafitti saying "One Hrant dead, Tomorow more Hrants. Slaughter the filthy Armenians". http://blogian.hayastan.com/2007/01/22/ist...rch-vandalized/ (The translation theygive is not right, btw. pis doesn't mean "ugly", and geber doesn't mean simply "kill" (it is a word used when you are killing something that is not human).

There are a lot of pictures here: http://www.milliyet.com.tr/content/galeri/...mp;galeriid=789 (Some of them have been posted here earlier, some have not.)

Thanks.

You are the one who dares speak for 80-or-so million people as if they were one monolithic block. Turkey is a country whose population has freedoms that people in many other countries would be envious of, and whose population has restrictions which people in many other countries would consider completely intolerable, and whose population has some social attitudes that are admirable, and at the same time has other social attitudes that are malevolant, unjustifiable, backward, and self-harming. Hyeforum follows the "80% rule".

You are showing I was correct, in bold size 4.

That is the positive outcome that I am suggesting. There are public figures in Turkey who think they can rant all sort of rabble-rousing obscenities and lies - and as long as nothing particularly violent occurs then it is OK. This should shut them up for a long while (not because they have changed their views, but because they are now on the defensive and their viewpoint is not defendable). But it is worth remembering that most people here (HyeForum) would not want any positive outcome if it results in something positive for Turkey.

Did it drop from the sky? Did you find it under your pillow one morning? It's a very interesting article, but you have to say something about its origin for us to be able to assess its credibility!

I wonder if the above says more about you than about the reality of the funeral procession? Perhaps, conciously or unconciously, you would rather it had remained a small, "Armenian owned" event? And that is why you seem to want to diminish the importance and question the integrity of those attending this funeral demonstration. Do Kurds walk around with badges stating they are Kurds? Do "leftists" have particular clothing that only "leftists" wear? Those photos, with those tens of thousands of demonstators, are a startling indication that the importance of Dink's assasination derives from the fact that it is seen as a significant event for more than just Istanbul's small communuity of Armenians. If Dink's murder is to have any positive outcome to it, then that is as it should be.

I don't see your point? There is a big difference in giving Mutafyan the criticism he rightly deserves, and actually wanting him to be murdered. It is right of anyone to express their sorrow and regret over the death of Hrant Dink as long as those feelings are sincere, even if they were opposed to some of the things Dink said and did during his life. And for those that are not sincere, like that fascist Turkish lawyer, maybe they will be forced to learn the error of their ways and realise that public grandstanding and giving speeches encouraging the mob sometimes have consequences.