wh00t

quote:Originally posted by MJ: Man, you sound like the King of Armenia with your “my people.” Do you think it is symptomatic of something? My people, the Armenians. What should I call them, then? Thorny Rose used the term "my people" in his post? quote I can only speak what I feel is true, my friend. If by speaking my mind I am degraded in your eyes, I can only shrug and carry on. quote The Genocide denial is at the core of the problem. Once we overcome this barrier, doors will open and things will change. Count on it. [ July 22, 2001: Message edited by: wh00t ]

Until the Turkish state and people acknowledge the Genocide that was perpetrated against my people, there can be no reconciliation between us, and I will continue to have plenty of reason to bash Turks and Turkey however I please. Not only is such revisionism revolting, it is reprehensible and laughable at the same time; to think, these people consider themselves to be living in a model, civilized Muslim country. PLEASE! Oppression, repression, and discrimination places Turkey below most of the newly-formed Soviet states on the UN's latest human development list (well below Armenia, as a side note). If more Turks would be like Taner Akcam rather than Bulent Ecevit, Turkey could (one, distant day) become a civilized, democratized country rather than the corrupt, racist, destructionist, oppressive regime it is today.

Just something I had to get off my chest.. I figure this is the best place. I'm waiting for comments.

I must disagree.. I have heard the entire album and must say it is an EXCELLENT one, innovative and purely System of a Down. Although I found Prison Song a tad weak by SOAD standards, Chop Suey is a masterpiece and the best choice for the first single off Toxicity. My props to SOAD, I hope this one makes them big.. and it will, if they market it right..

Present-day good-looking Turks are the result of the forced Islamification (marriage to a Turkish man) and rape of Armenian women during the Genocide. The large, "mighty" Turkish republic is the result of a series of barbaric quests to conquer territory by the Seljuks and onwards. Turkey's prize for exterminating an entire race was Eastern Anatolia, a gift that they will never give back to the Armenians. Products associated with the Turks are the result of stealing the accomplishments of others and claiming them as their own. Take the so-called Turkish Van cats, who were bred by Armenians for 2,000 years in Van, a historically Armenian city. There's the subject of Anatolia of course (Ani, Van, etc. which were historically Armenian territories) And the Greeks.. everything Greek is now more associated with the Turks (Greek coffee = Turkish coffee, Greek delight = Turkish delight, Greek yogourt = Turkish yogourt). The fact of the matter is, if Turks lived civilized lives thoroughout history, instead of like savage beasts whose existence depended on conquering and stealing from other cultures, they would not be here today. The intellectuals in the Ottoman Empire were the Christian Armenians. The Armenians fight with their brains as opposed to their hands, which is why although we lost 1.5 million to the Ottomans, the Armenian people are still superior to the Turks. [ July 22, 2001: Message edited by: wh00t ]

I read this.. it was the only novel on the Armenian Genocide in my high school's library. It's worth a read.

You can find the article here: http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg33117.html

Did anyone else know about this? Agence France Presse reported today: This was not the first time that Israeli agents went abroad to collect historic artifacts. It is reported that agents working on behalf of Israel and Turkey have been smuggling large amounts of Armenian collections out of Armenia. Many of these items, including pictures, videos, yet unpublished manuscripts of books documenting the Armenian genocide, and even left over weapons and uniforms, were taken out of museums, publishers offices and government agencies. This pisses the hell out of me... Israel would guard Holocaust artifacts with their life, and us, we just let them take large amounts of our evidence... even though we have yet to prove the Genocide occured to the entire world. I tell you, we are our own worst enemy for letting things like this occur.

Karekin II will be celebrating the Divine Liturgy tomorrow at St. Gregory's church in Montreal.. hope some of you Montrealers will show up.

I didn't know this, but check this out.. Reuters reports that he's Armenian from France! NEWSMAKER-France's turnaround king mulls new gamble By Tom Pfeiffer PARIS, May 18 (Reuters) - If Alcatel's Serge Tchuruk succeeded in buying Lucent Technologies Inc., it would be one of the biggest gambles yet for the Frenchman of Armenian descent, who has made his name using astute deals to bring companies back from the brink. ADVERTISEMENT In transforming the sleepy French engineering company into a global phone equipment powerhouse, Tchuruk has gained near-legendary status in French business circles. While some analysts balk at the sheer size of the potential deal -- struggling Lucent (NYSE:LU - news) has a market capitalization of some $34 billion compared to Alcatel's $38 billion -- few are prepared to bet against him succeeding. ``If anyone can pull off a deal like this, Tchuruk can,'' said Adrian Darley at fund manager Gartmore of the 62-year-old son of a Marseilles shopkeeper who rescued Alcatel as he did the lumbering oil firm Total in the 1990s. DISMANTLED HIERARCHIES A weapons engineer by training, Tchuruk had little experience of telecommunications when he took over at the company, then called Alcatel-Alsthom. Unlike many captains of French industry, he attended the Ecole Polytechnique engineering college rather than the elite civil service college Ecole Nationale d'Administration (ENA). Nor did he spend time as a minister's aide before heading a large company, as others have. A confident public speaker known for clarity and a decisive mind, Tchuruk worked his way up in research and development in the refinery industry before climbing the management ladders at U.S. oil company Mobil Corp. and French chemicals and drugs firm Rhone-Poulenc SA. He gained his reputation as a turnaround man at French oil company Total, where he unwound a rigid hierarchy that smothered employee initiative and a complex structure full of fiefdoms and duplication. He axed 200 subsidiaries, accelerated job cuts at its marketing and refinery operations and established a direct line to middle-management. Even trade union leaders praised his charisma, though they lamented his ruthless style. From Total he moved to Alcatel-Alstom, which fell to a loss of $3.6 billion in 1995, the year he took the helm. He replaced Pierre Suard, forced out after a probe into alleged overbilling of France Telecom and company-paid work on his home. The company was reliant on contracts from state monopolies such as France Telecom, who were slashing spending to prepare for the tide of market liberalization engulfing Europe. Alcatel-Alstom, which then had interests ranging from power turbines and trains to vineyards, risked being swept away as larger rivals muscled into its previously protected markets. Tchuruk sold a stake in Italian car maker Fiat SpA, a 25 percent stake of mobile telecoms operator Cofira and activities in newspapers and magazines, and spun off heavy equipment maker Alstom. To gain more presence in the fast-growing data equipment business, he bought Dallas-based optical equipment maker DSC Communications in 1998. The company stunned investors when it warned of an earnings shortfall in September 1998 due to the Asian and Russian economic crises, sending the shares tumbling. But Tchuruk bounced back. Last year he acquired Newbridge Networks of Canada in a widely applauded $7.1 billion deal, cementing Alcatel's presence in North America. His persistence was rewarded when Alcatel became the biggest supplier of high-speed consumer Internet connections to the U.S. Bells, completing Alcatel's technology revolution. Industry sources told Reuters last month that the initial talks between Alcatel and Lucent faltered because of differences on valuation and Lucent's apprehension about getting easy merger clearance from authorities in Washington. Friday, sources told Reuters the talks were still on and a decision could be made ``sooner rather than later.'' ($1=7.475 French Franc) (With additional reporting by Caroline Brothers)

He baptized me in 1984 and my sister in 1986 in Toronto.

It wasn't surprising when he didn't say 'genocide'. What was surprising (for me, anyway) was that he did go as far as saying it was a "forced exile and annihilation of 1.5 million Armenians". Annhilation is extermination, and he also used the Armenian accepted figure. This is in sharp contrast to Clinton who would only call it a "tragedy", no figures either. What do you think?

Today President Bush will make a statement concerning the Armenian Genocide. Though he has made several pledges to categorize the events as 'genocide', he risks retaliation from Turkey if he fulfills his promise. Like his dad before him, my guess is that W. Bush will stick to 'tragedy'. Cheney says so, Powell says so, Turkey says so. Who are we, insignificant Armenians.

Comments about what?

There's no need for censoring these lyrics. I was, quite frankly, very surprised by the reaction of this group in response to the lyrics. Compared to some of the music these days, I find this song to be quite tame. If you're worried that 11 and 12 year olds will be corrupted by it, trust me; at 12 years old, hearing this stuff is nothing new.

I also posted this in the "Language" forum. I was unsure about a few lines (denoted with a ?), so feel free to post any comments and/or corrections as you see fit. Honestly, I don't think this song is as bad as some of you make it out to be.. if you heard some American rap group singing it, you wouldn't think twice about it.. but since it's an Armenian band, "oh dear God no!" How are Armenian teenage guys any different from other teenage guys in the world? Don't tell me this is the first time you've heard a song where women are portrayed as objects.. Hye baba-ne roun betge sud khosink, We have to lie to Armenian dads Ouzenk ne dughayi hed bargink If we want to sleep with guys As badmoutiunuh hajis luseh, Please listen to this story Tcheneh akhtchigit babat kezi guh dzedzeh, Or else your girl's dad will beat you Aghtchig ounisneh lav vorosheh, If you have a girl, be prepared Iren tubnasneh ir baban tchi luseh. If you touch her, don't let her dad hear Dasnuvets daregan, gam kusan-tchors, 16 years old, or 24 Babayin hartsunesneh inkuh guseh votch. If you ask her dad, he'll say no Mintchev amousnanas, tches grnar tubnas, You can't touch her until you get married Yev tchuh lusem vor toun ounetsar tats yeraz. And god forbid he hear that you had wet dreams Intch vor tchen desnar, tchen kider, What ever they don't see, they don't know (what they know won't hurt them) Anor hamar menk gertank Hay barer, That's why we go to Armenian dances Anank degher gunenk aghdod paner, At places like that we do dirty things Aghtchig dapadis metchuh ounim nuver. Girl, I have a gift for you in my pants As shounuh gouzeh kunal gadou This dog wants to sleep with the cat (?) Yegour im senyagus mintchev ardour, Stay in my room til morning Khmitchk guh khumenk yev khod guh dzukhenk, We'll drink booze and smoke grass Yev intch vor ouzesneh miasin gunenk. And we'll do whatever you want together Chorus x 2 Amen babaneruh vor guh gardzen To all dads that think Vor irents aghthigneruh makour en That their girls are clean Tchen havadar yes intch gusem They don't believe what I say Hramoutiunut bedk tchounim vor aghtchigut arnem I don't need your permission to take your girl out Aghtchigner gan vor guh siren unel, There are girls that like to do it Eh aveli aghtchig gah vor tchen sirer, And there are more girls that don't like it Gou zesneh iren tours danis, If you want to take them out Aratch bedkeh iren babayin heduh khosis. First you have to speak with their dads Bedkeh nsdis ir heduh, sourj khumes You have to sit with him, drink coffee Yev amen ir hartsoumneruh bedkeh badaskhanes. And answer his every question Mintchev vor inkuh ourakh eh vor toun lav dughah es, Until he's happy that you're a good guy Lav kordz gunes yev arten toun Hay es. You have a good job, and besides you're Armenian Aghtchigis heduh oushatroutiun ureh, "Be careful with my girl" Nayi vor inkuh pan muh tchi tzagher. "Make sure she don't smoke anything" Yev khumitchk ouzeneh hajis mi tsuker, "And if she wants booze, please don't let her" Yev mi mornar dasen aratch doun per. "And don't forget, bring her home by 10" Aghtchigus shnorhkov eh batchig tchunes, "My girl is proper, don't kiss her!" Hay baba aghtchigut haveh yev yes em aghves. Armenian dad, your girl's a chicken, and I'm .. (?) Inkuh ouzeneh intchbes bid getsunes, If she wants it, how are you going to stop her? Atchkerut kots aghtchig guh medztsunes. You're raising a girl with her eyes closed to the world Chorus x 2 Chess key dare inch ga nem , chess key dare our gertum You don't know what I do, you don't know where I go An babaneruh vor hin midk ounin To the dads that have old-fashioned minds Eshi bes guh boran, intchou yes pokhvim, They scream like donkeys, why should I change? Guh medztsunem aghtchigus intchbes vor ouzem I'll raise your girl however I please Kesh panereh abahov guh bahem. I'll keep bad things (?) Eh kou yedevut inkuh amen intch guneh, And behind your back, she does all sorts of things Guh khumeh, guh dzukheh dughayi hed guh sireh, She drinks, she smokes, she fools around with guys Anoushig ullaneh anshoushd guh gokhem, If she's good-looking, of course I'll press for it Anank marmin ir hakousduh guh badrem. A body like that, I'll rip her clothes off Meg yergou, dapadus hanem, 1, 2, I'll take off my pants Louysuh marem, iren voruh zarnem. Shut off the lights, and tap her ass Vertchanamneh shoud guh mornam When I'm done, I'll quickly forget Gertam barahantes meg had nor kudnam. I'll go to the club and find me a new one Im gyankus asank gabrim, That's my life, that's how I live Orenki hamar akhorjag tchounim, I have no motivation during the day (?) Aratchin ankamut eh, eh mi vakhnar, It's your first time, well don't be scared Yed bargir, vodkerut pats yev ar. Lie back, spread your legs and take it. Chorus x 4 [ April 13, 2001: Message edited by: wh00t ]

This translation was requested by ArmenianGirl83, and so I did it, also since I want to brush up on my Armenian. I was unsure about a few lines (denoted with a ?), so feel free to post any comments and/or corrections as you see fit. Hye baba-ne roun betge sud khosink, We have to lie to Armenian dads Ouzenk ne dughayi hed bargink If we want to sleep with guys As badmoutiunuh hajis luseh, Please listen to this story Tcheneh akhtchigit babat kezi guh dzedzeh, Or else your girl's dad will beat you Aghtchig ounisneh lav vorosheh, If you have a girl, be prepared Iren tubnasneh ir baban tchi luseh. If you touch her, don't let her dad hear Dasnuvets daregan, gam kusan-tchors, 16 years old, or 24 Babayin hartsunesneh inkuh guseh votch. If you ask her dad, he'll say no Mintchev amousnanas, tches grnar tubnas, You can't touch her until you get married Yev tchuh lusem vor toun ounetsar tats yeraz. And god forbid he hear that you had wet dreams Intch vor tchen desnar, tchen kider, What ever they don't see, they don't know (what they know won't hurt them) Anor hamar menk gertank Hay barer, That's why we go to Armenian dances Anank degher gunenk aghdod paner, At places like that we do dirty things Aghtchig dapadis metchuh ounim nuver. Girl, I have a gift for you in my pants As shounuh gouzeh kunal gadou This dog wants to sleep with the cat (?) Yegour im senyagus mintchev ardour, Stay in my room til morning Khmitchk guh khumenk yev khod guh dzukhenk, We'll drink booze and smoke grass Yev intch vor ouzesneh miasin gunenk. And we'll do whatever you want together Chorus x 2 Amen babaneruh vor guh gardzen To all dads that think Vor irents aghthigneruh makour en That their girls are clean Tchen havadar yes intch gusem They don't believe what I say Hramoutiunut bedk tchounim vor aghtchigut arnem I don't need your permission to take your girl out Aghtchigner gan vor guh siren unel, There are girls that like to do it Eh aveli aghtchig gah vor tchen sirer, And there are more girls that don't like it Gou zesneh iren tours danis, If you want to take them out Aratch bedkeh iren babayin heduh khosis. First you have to speak with their dads Bedkeh nsdis ir heduh, sourj khumes You have to sit with him, drink coffee Yev amen ir hartsoumneruh bedkeh badaskhanes. And answer his every question Mintchev vor inkuh ourakh eh vor toun lav dughah es, Until he's happy that you're a good guy Lav kordz gunes yev arten toun Hay es. You have a good job, and besides you're Armenian Aghtchigis heduh oushatroutiun ureh, "Be careful with my girl" Nayi vor inkuh pan muh tchi tzagher. "Make sure she don't smoke anything" Yev khumitchk ouzeneh hajis mi tsuker, "And if she wants booze, please don't let her" Yev mi mornar dasen aratch doun per. "And don't forget, bring her home by 10" Aghtchigus shnorhkov eh batchig tchunes, "My girl is proper, don't kiss her!" Hay baba aghtchigut haveh yev yes em aghves. Armenian dad, your girl's a chicken, and I'm .. (?) Inkuh ouzeneh intchbes bid getsunes, If she wants it, how are you going to stop her? Atchkerut kots aghtchig guh medztsunes. Your raising a girl with her eyes closed Chorus x 2 Chess key dare inch ga nem , chess key dare our gertum You don't know what I do, you don't know where I go An babaneruh vor hin midk ounin To the dads that have old-fashioned minds Eshi bes guh boran, intchou yes pokhvim, They scream like donkeys, why should I change? Guh medztsunem aghtchigus intchbes vor ouzem I'll raise your girl however I please Kesh panereh abahov guh bahem. I'll keep bad things (?) Eh kou yedevut inkuh amen intch guneh, And behind your back, she does all sorts of things Guh khumeh, guh dzukheh dughayi hed guh sireh, She drinks, she smokes, she fools around with guys Anoushig ullaneh anshoushd guh gokhem, If she's good-looking, of course I'll press for it Anank marmin ir hakousduh guh badrem. A body like that, I'll rip her clothes off Meg yergou, dapadus hanem, 1, 2, I'll take off my pants Louysuh marem, iren voruh zarnem. Shut off the lights, and tap her ass Vertchanamneh shoud guh mornam When I'm done, I'll quickly forget Gertam barahantes meg had nor kudnam. I'll go to the club and find me a new one Im gyankus asank gabrim, That's my life, that's how I live Orenki hamar akhorjag tchounim, I have no motivation during the day (?) Aratchin ankamut eh, eh mi vakhnar, It's your first time, well don't be scared Yed bargir, vodkerut pats yev ar. Lie back, spread your legs and take it. Chorus x 4 [ April 12, 2001: Message edited by: wh00t ] [ April 12, 2001: Message edited by: wh00t ]