Twilight Bark

What? Is it "Domino two day hands off" ?

Oh no, don't. It will spoil everything. Thanks. You might want to reconsider your wish.

In terms of fuzzy logic, the statement's truth value is 0.5. In more human terms: The 2nd sentence negates the first one (he must not be Italian). But that means he might or might not be lying. We don't know. However, this interpretation may be wrong, since being a liar does not mean that he lies all the time, in every sentence. So he may be Italian, and speak the truth about that, and lie in the second sentence. We don't know. Also, he may be Italian, and be truthful about it, and think that all Italians are not necessarily liars, and "lie" about it in the second sentence. The second sentence may or may not be true depending on whether his information about Italians' ethics is correct. We don't know. So we also don't know its effect on the truthfulness of the first claim. Or he may not be Italian. We don't know. . . . Conclusion: It is an information-free statement, and its truth value (on a scale of 0 to 1) is 0.5. TB P.S. Yes, I am looking for distractions today.

Looks like a few translations were published in Ararat Quarterly. http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/sas_n...r2000/page3.htm

Could it be Wayne State? Edit: Sorry. I just missed your edit by a second I guess.

Well, you must remember that I gave you the initial idea when you claimed that our universe looked as if it was designed to support intelligent life. Of course neither of us is the originator of the multiple universes idea. Fantastic? Cynics would say yes, because it is all fantasy . I would prefer the word "fascinating". You remind me a part of me when I was 14. It's nice to see that life hasn't sucked that 14-year old out of you. Now I have to get back to real life in my current universe.

Well, it's not as bad as that. "They" probably have a pretty good idea that they are saying it to someone intelligent and responsible. And of course in the (very) end it is always "alright". We die and all is resolved. I think you would have to agree with that. Alright, how about this one: "I have been looking for this thing for an hour, and I find it in the last place I look." As if they are expected to keep looking for it after they found it in the "last" place they looked.

Before Domino performs his duties as the keeper of multiple universes, let me remind you that quantum fluctuations occur for no reason at all. I would have liked to comment on weightier issues, but ... too down for that.

Dear Sasun, Armenian culture is not imperial not because it has never had an empire, but because it has rarely ever even tried. It can be argued that Kurds never had an empire, but their culture has the basics of being "imperial". They would have one if they could get their act together. However, even Tigran's "empire" was built mostly by a power vacuum to the south, almost "by invitation". Again, measure "imperial" qualities of a culture by its ambitions, not in its abilities to carry through; the second belongs to another discussion. Armenians simply are not an "imperial" people; period. As for Mr. B's longings, I don't really care. Take away his erudition, take away utterly trivial mainstream-level sloganeering that one can readily find in any American newspaper or magazine, and take away his bitterness about the (apparently shocking) fact that stupid people act stupidly (and their implied guilt in his lack of a Nobel literature prize), what is left of Mr. B in terms of original thought and philosophy is, well, nothing. Which is no big deal. I mean, he is under no obligation to be bright, wise, or deep. My lamentation is that the Armenian intellectual scene is so arid and sterile that an utter mediocrity appears to many as a modern-day prophet. Sadly, TB

I maintain that the "ordinary" Armenian will usually try to establish a"pecking order" right away, as soon as he/she meets an Armenian for the first time. They will not do this to other nationalities. They will come across as arrogant or even disdainful, but it simply reflects a bunch of complexes that shouts out "I am a rare, superior person, almost equal to non-Armenians, unlike the rest of the Armenians, who are a bunch of clueless losers". It's not hate; it's a cultural disease that needs to be cured by lots of love, affection, education, and sacrifice. By those of us that are willing to tolerate it, rise above it, and lift others from its abyss. Did I mention that I am naturally one of those superior individuals, unlike the rest of our clueless losers?

I stopped reading Mr. B some time ago, but upon seeing Sasun's response (which is when I check this thread) I had to say something. There are few sights more pathetic than a nerd lusting for an "empire". I am sure there are many self-evident "truisms" in whatever Mr. B wrote, but the apparent thought "Akh, wouldn't it be swell to have had a bloodthirsty empire" immediately disqualifies him as a true intellectual, and reduces him to a nerd who preferred accumulating encyclopaedic information over real life and wisdom. His myopic and capricious refusal to see that Armenian culture (for all its many faults) has never had much interest in dominating others, and that not being able to put together a focussed bunch of bloodthirsty thugs was not the real reason for their lack of "imperial glory" is tiring. They would have probably goofed up royally if they tried I suppose (not being natural at that sort of thing), but they never really did. And that is something to be proud of, not lament on. Who are our thinkers today? Do we have any that is worthy of the description? Depressed, TB

Glottochronology has been discredited (as the authors point out themselves). Gray and Atkinson relaxed the unreasonable "constant mutation rate" assumption, and applied cutting-edge probabilistic methods borrowed from bioinformatics, treating words as genes; so it is a sgnificantly different beast. It appears that they applied their methods very cautiously, and that their conclusion has great weight to say the least. This is from a cursory glance; I still have to read it in detail. The links I posted are already broken. Here is a groong link that will be broken in less than a week: http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg77779.html It has the full text, sans figures.

I think those scientists are aware of that Steve.

one word: bioinformatics

It is news because they are bringing tools that are amenable to objective analysis rather than whose academic mafia can bully whom, and similar nonsense. As for those results exciting some people into an overly speculative mood, I don't have much to sayon that. In any event, it would not be the scientists' fault.

Well Domino, apparently you did. I barely looked at the articles yet. But they are bringing novel tools into the discussion. I cannot say whether the tools should or should not be applied. However, I can safely say that their applicability would be higher than the biased handwaving that has dominated the field.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s997867.htm http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/11/26/languages031126 http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml...11&section=news Some people can now say "I told you so!"

Dear Hagop, I agree with Sasun's concerns and perspective. While you may have good reasons for your frustration and anger, please understand that we are not specialists here, we are not the cause of your frustration, and I am not aware of anyone in this forum who has an axe to grind in the field of Armenology. If you could post relevant exerpts from the feuding Armenologists, I am sure many people here would be genuinely interested. Also, if you could provide pointers to (or exerpts from) studies that show the mainstream characterization of Urartu to be false, it would be great. Please relax; you are (mostly) among friends. You are unlikely to be aware of this, but I went through significant trouble to obtain a copy of Jensen's book specifically because I knew you were interested in finding it. I relayed it to you through a mutual acquaintance. I may not agree with everything you say, but I don't doubt your sincerity and your passion for things Armenian. Many here are interested in those subjects but do not have the resources or the time to invest in them. If you have, please do us a favor and share what you know. So please relax and focus more on specific information. Twilight Bark

I have never defined myself by any "-ism". However, that is probably a good approximation.

Life is meaningful only when it goes above the egocentric concerns. "Whatever makes you happy", "whatever makes you feel better", and variations thereof are meaningless. While we are inevitably important to ourselves, we should know that our individual selves are utterly unimportant in defining something as grandiose as "meaning of life", which must lie in something more permanent than individuals. Our lives gain meaning to the extent that we contribute to the "humanity project"; that big, messy, chaotic collection of pretensions that declares us to be more than walking collections of molecules moving according to the laws of physics (which of course we do). Humanity and our lives in it as something more special than automatons made of atoms created from the debris of old stars is a self-created illusion that defines our reality. I can only see meaning in life to the extent that it enriches and beautifies that collective "humanity" project that only exists as a fleeting experience and gets passed on from one generation to the next every instant. To tie this into the reason-of-existence of this forum, I can say that cultures have meaning and a good reason to exist only to the extent that they enrich, deepen, and beautify the "humanity" project. I can think of some cultures that would contribute best by ceasing to exist (and would have been better not to have been created in the first place). Now the questions to ponder are: what worthwhile contributions has the Armenian culture made, is making, and is well-poised to make to the humanity project?

I have to confess that I don't know much about the "politics" involved. I would not be surprised. I have sasid before that Armenians themselves often butcher their own history because of cultural complexes. As for University of Chicago, I wouldn't be much surprised about their bias. In an earlier life, I spotted a sentence on their web site referring to Urartu as an "ancient Turkish kingdom", which got corrected pretty quickly when a bunch of e-mails reminded them that at least some people were watching them. Considering how much historical resources Turkey possesses, and given the careerism of academics, it is not a huge surprise to see them try to please their precious "source" at the expense of those insignificant pesky Armenians.

I don't know if you are referring to me here or not. In any case, if there is important evidence lacking in this discussion (which I don't doubt), presenting what you think are the missing facts would be helpful for those interested. I don't know about others, but you can count me among the "friendly audience".

Dear Hagop, Welcome again to Hye Forum. You will find that in this forum it is relatively easy to have open-minded discussions based on reason and some knowledge. Please ...invite your fellow armenians to discuss topics that your are passionate about. I hope you stay this time and give yourself the chance to air your thoughts. TB P.S. Have you had Jensen's book translated from German yet? If so, it would be wonderful if you could share with us parts of it. Edit: clean up done/ Sasun

That's been done, back in the early days of internet, when UseNet was the place, and David Davidian was the net-warrior. While real live people (Ahmet Cosar, Hasan Mutlu, and there was another I can't remember right now, in succession) did "battle" him and a motley crew of Armenians, Greeks, and occasional Russians, they apparently employed a primitive robot to parse the newsgroups for any mention of "sensitive" words, including Turkey. It was a favorite pastime of the anti-Turkish group to trip up the robot by Turkey recipes, whereby the poor creature would reply by a semi-random anti-Armenian diatribe in response to a supposedly Thanksgiving-related post.

Hmm. If we combine your math and my angle on life, an infant (age zero) has an AQ (accomplishment quotient) of infinity, the significant accomplishment being the great joy they bring to their parents' lives. And it's bound to go downhill from there. Somewhat discouraging.