Stormig Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 or you should rethink of a an early retirment as a moderator,i dont think you are doing right in what you should do,and that is preservation of armenian Diaspora or whatt else is the purpose of this website, Ehm, mods, I didn't know one of your jobs was preserving the Armenian diaspora. Goodness, the burden of the whole Armenian population(s) has been shifted onto your shoulders. A bit unfair, if I may add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 12, 2004 Report Share Posted June 12, 2004 Duhhh! I must be the only idiot here who still does not understand how we get from "semite/schmemite" to rice. Anyway. Your friend must have been having "Rizo Amaro", literally "bitter rice" and also the title of an Italian movie that portrayed the human sexual act on the screen, if only in a shadow when the rest of the world was wallowing in medieval darkness. Reminds me of an enecdote. After the Great Displacemnet several Armenian boys ended up in Paris. They were hungry. They enetered the first restaurant, they sat down and ordered the only dish they knew, pilau. But they they were sick and tired of pilau, be it prinz or tsavar. They wanted something more substantial, something juicy and savory. They observed that the next table was having chateaubriand and they listened carefully. The waiter approached and the neighbors said "encore". Oh! Then that's what it is called! The waiter approached them and they said "encore"!. Guess what they got! The more you say "encore", the more you will get the same old... same old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Change positions/locations while eating rice, they say. Try different "games" - such as licking soy sauce off your rice. Take a vacation with your rice so you don't have squabbles over everyday chores, like the kids or such as how well-done your rice is. Also might want to join a swingers'-club with your rice - try different varieties a bit, whole-grain vs. processed, etc. Works for some people and their rice, or some rice and their people, apparently. Well stormig I will take this to my friend but I imagine he will say something like: "Rice tastes Rice ,no matter you ate it under the table or over it!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 (edited) AP - my mother came from a family with an Armenian mother and and Armenian father. She developed her attitudes prior to getting married to a non Armenian - and for reasons of descrimination and from living in an area without a strong Armenian Diaspora community - typical issues with immagrants in this country - so you are off base here - it has nothing directly to do with intermarrying. And if my father and mother hadn't married and had children - well - there would be no ME. I am the result of this mix and would not have come into being any other way - so i am - of course - eternally grateful for that - and have no bitter ir negative feelings wahtsoever regarding such. Would it be that I had learned Armenian - of course I would have liked that - but I didn't and at this point in my life and circumstance - it is doubful that I will. Yes - I have some regret...but thats just the way it is..I do feel I have plenty going for me in other respects that it doesn't worry me much. And Anileve - the rice thing - brilliant! And Stormy too - LOL! Edited June 13, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Where is Azaty Poo with the mole on his bum during all this? Is he packing or is he in Armenia alreadY? Sorry, you can move this to chit-chat, along with the rice posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Reminds me of an enecdote. After the Great Displacemnet several Armenian boys ended up in Paris. They were hungry. They enetered the first restaurant, they sat down and ordered the only dish they knew, pilau. But they they were sick and tired of pilau, be it prinz or tsavar. They wanted something more substantial, something juicy and savory. They observed that the next table was having chateaubriand and they listened carefully. The waiter approached and the neighbors said "encore". Oh! Then that's what it is called! The waiter approached them and they said "encore"!. Guess what they got! The more you say "encore", the more you will get the same old... same old. Ankogh? Ankoghin is bed/bedding, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Actually, sorry, I took it the wrong way... LOL... Encore of pilaf. Sorry, I musta spent too much time under the sun today and was thinking of horizontal practices re: same old, same old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nvard Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Why do you discuss RICE in the Diaspora section? You're all BANNED! he he he Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 And if my father and mother hadn't married and had children - well - there would be no ME. I am the result of this mix and would not have come into being any other way - so i am - of course - eternally grateful for that - and have no bitter ir negative feelings wahtsoever regarding such. Would it be that I had learned Armenian - Thot there is nothing personal here,but many of us are indulged in many serious ways for preserving ourselves as Armenians,it doesnt effect me in my business or my life on daily bases,but at home we speak armenian and try to keep our spirits as Armenians high,in addition to public service in armenian quarters. As a typical person to our subject(with my deep respect to you as a prson and Armenian) I would realy like to know how much you rate your chances of rasing your childeren and preserving them and yourself as Armenians,I would realy like to know your oppinion on this one.do you think your chances would have been more,less or the same if your parents were both Armenians or it doesnt matter. or do you think that we are losing some part of our heritage with every odar Hye mariage ,or on the contrary we are gaining something. It might not mean anything to you but every time i see an armenian doesnt speak his or her language ,small part of me is destroyed..but I hope like hell that nothing else is destroyed,I mean something like our national heritage. Good luck to you in your quest and i hope you will learn to speak armenian one day(I learned to play piano after 30,many thought that was impossible including my wife who plays Cello and my son who is top piano student!!),its a beautiful language and its your language...that,if you believe so... jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 And if my father and mother hadn't married and had children - well - there would be no ME. I am the result of this mix and would not have come into being any other way - This be an example of the dangers of cross-breeding between species. Who knows what hideous monstrosities their prodgeny may display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Steve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Steve... Sorry Nairi. The opening was there, and I took it. I was being naughty, yes. But not very naughty (And not naughty enough to erase it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Thot there is nothing personal here,but many of us are indulged in many serious ways for preserving ourselves as Armenians,it doesnt effect me in my business or my life on daily bases,but at home we speak armenian and try to keep our spirits as Armenians high,in addition to public service in armenian quarters. As a typical person to our subject(with my deep respect to you as a prson and Armenian) I would realy like to know how much you rate your chances of rasing your childeren and preserving them and yourself as Armenians,I would realy like to know your oppinion on this one.do you think your chances would have been more,less or the same if your parents were both Armenians or it doesnt matter. or do you think that we are losing some part of our heritage with every odar Hye mariage ,or on the contrary we are gaining something. It might not mean anything to you but every time i see an armenian doesnt speak his or her language ,small part of me is destroyed..but I hope like hell that nothing else is destroyed,I mean something like our national heritage. Good luck to you in your quest and i hope you will learn to speak armenian one day(I learned to play piano after 30,many thought that was impossible including my wife who plays Cello and my son who is top piano student!!),its a beautiful language and its your language...that,if you believe so... jack Well Jack I was not brought up as an "Armenian" per se - and neither are our children being raised such. But what is funny is that I recieved much of my initial exposure/awareness of my Armenian heritage/history etc from my (non-Armenian) father - who thought it was important to teach me - as my (Armenian) mother was/is of completely opposite mind. Of course I also have many Armenian relatives (of varrying degrees of involvement in Armenian affairs...etc)... I feel for your dilema...but I don't see a solution beyond working with what you've got...ie you can't force Armenians in the diaspora to be one way or another - they will do what they will - what they percieve to be in their interests etc - and if continuing to be immersed in some degree of Armenian culture is of value to them - then they will do so - to varrying degrees. Yes - you will lose many to the dominant/local culture...but bottom line is there is little you can do about this...so you must work with what you have...and my advice also is to be inclussive - and understanding - that not all Armenians will choose to continue their traditions to the same degeee as you or others - but all should be embraced and exposed or what not - because I do believe that we have a wonderful culture, wonderful people and a very very special history and place in the world... Alas - I may never learn Armenian...I'm not very good with languages to begin with...and unless I have a real compelling reason (like moving to Armenia or such) - I doubt that I will ever attempt to learn it. Yes - I'm somewhat sorry of this (because as an Anthropologist and as someone who understands I do know what i am missing)- but again - that is just the way of it...for me... And again - Armenian national heritage is pretty much an issue for Armenians from Armenia - and of course those from the Diaspora who involve themselves in Armenia. We can perserve something of our culture in the Diaspora...but it will never be entirely the same...it cannot be...and even Armenia itself faces obstacles in remaining "Armenian" and in fact can (basically) never go back...and thi sis really true for most all of us in the world today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 ...and even Armenia itself faces obstacles in remaining "Armenian" and in fact can (basically) never go back...and thi sis really true for most all of us in the world today... My dilema is for guys like you that we are losing Thoth ,and you dont worry about the existence of Armenia as a nation,nor to a great extent about the Diaspora,there are enough good tough Armeninas to carry the torch for generations to come.. The above statment makes much difference and shows exactly the frame of your thinking,I think you will find that the existance of Armenia itself is a taboo issue for most of us...the ARMENIANS. However Thanks for the reply and the effort ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 you dont worry about the existence of Armenia as a nation How do you know this? I worry and I care and I contribute and do what I can..but bottom line I am a citizen of the USA - my family and children are from here and this is my home, my nation, my (family's) future...this is just the facts - and it is also true for the majority of Diasporan Armenians I imagine...not everyone is concerned with larger social or political issues (not saying that I am not - because I am) - most people worry about their daily lives, providing for their families and their families futures. The fact that I am aware and follow the general goings on in Armenia, with Armenians and in the diaspora is certainly some sign that I do care and I am involved...but fundementally my life is in the USA even if in my heart I feel that I am Armenian and identify with, pull for and am involved with Armenians (to the extent that I am). Again I argue that I am not "lost" per se...but neither do I place my affiliation as an Armenian (my heritage and one might say my nationality - at least in part) above that of the nation - of the life - for which myself and my famly find ourselves in. And my argument is that Armenia lives on....in Armenia...and to whatever degree those in the Diaspora continue to embrace it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArmenianPirate Posted June 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 I would just like to say that I like to eat my rice alone. Some prefer to eat it with chicken or other sort of meat, but I think that it sort of defies the pure taste of rice. I mean rice has such an exquisite and special taste that it must not get lost among other foods. By combining it with meats or vegetables it somehow tarnishes it’s reputation and makes it less of a noble grain that it’s supposed to be. What a distaste to appreciate foods in combinations where different ingredients can bring out such explosions of flavors and essences. It’s equally outrageous to feel that it’s so important for the well being of our taste buds and for the appreciation of every sort of a meal, for each one has something to contribute to another. How ridiculous! No, we must learn to eat rice in an isolated form, rice and only rice, and anyone who combines it with something else is a disgraceful, plebian and primitive eater, not to mention immoral and irresponsible!!! Viva la RICE! Nice try, you ALMOST got away with this one, almost. Luckily such responses carry a very strong foul stench with them as was the case with your analogy, and I happen to have a very sensitive nose. Seeing as how these boards are extremely prone to band-wagoning by a small group of individuals that are constantly tossing out witty nonsense then patting each other on the backs, I wanted to wait until a good number of them came out of the woodwork with their quick congratulations and praises towards your “nicely put” response so that you could all be conclusively deemed incorrect as band-wagoning pals. Names won’t be necessary, you know who you are. I’ll be the first to admit, you did a satisfactory job of setting up a descent analogy, however, while the analogy was coherent, it is COMPLETELY FALSE and definitely NOT in the correct context of anything I have written thus far. What you wrote would have made sense and been correct IF I had said, “you DO NOT have the CHOICE of inter-marriage and CANNOT do so under any circumstance but IF you do, you must be persecuted and ravaged by other Hyes”. I didn’t say anything of the sort, again, just like many others on these boards, you chose not to truly understand what is being said and put forth in front of you all, instead, you hastily jump in with wit in the face of my logic in an attempt to push forward your side of the debate which is riddled with supposition and fallacy in place of actual logic because you’re TOO PROUD to admit that you’re wrong. Worry not though, “the pride always comes before the fall” as it is so gracefully said. It blows me away to see so many folks on these boards that are among my own generation and some EVEN OLDER, completely and utterly out of touch with the simple notion that if there is to be true preservation, inter-marriage is definitely not a good start for any individuals that is serious about maintaining their heritage, culture, and lineage. I’m not surprised to hear retorts from individuals like Thoth and Anaheed, because they are progeny of inter-marriage, what I say inherently comes off offensive to them, so they are quick to say that inter-marriage “is not that bad” in the context of preserving our heritage. But some of you that are of Hye/Hye parents simply amaze me with your naïve outlook in the face of simple logic in the form of “if you want to preserve Armenian culture/lineage/heritage, it begins through Hye/Hye marriage and forming Hye/Hye families”. NEVER in all that I’ve written have I said “you do not and cannot have the choice of inter-marriage”, OF COURSE you have that choice! If you didn’t have that choice, I wouldn’t be writing all this out for all you sleeping sheep! However, IF you seriously give a damn about your own heritage/lineage/culture as a Hye, the simple truth is that inter-marriage, while available as an option, is not a CHOICE that allows any sort of true preservation; it’s simple logic, whenever you want to preserve anything on any level, you do your best not to alter it, how difficult is this to understand for some of you? Inter-marriage causes and leads to loss of the Hye identity/culture/lineage/heritage/tradition/language/mentality/ and everything else that is remotely Hye due to the fact that once inter-marriage occurs, within a Hye/Odar family, a competition of culture occurs, this is inevitable. As it is universally known, in any competition there is always a dominant force that subdues the weaker force, and if that is the Armenian half, then guess what? You’re screwed as far as maintaining your heritage and culture, and you’re automatically screwed lineage-wise regardless of what you do due to the inter-marriage that occurred, in essence, you’re progeny are HALF Hye. Jesus H. Christ, some of you are 30+ year old adults but your outlook is so childishly naïve while simultaneously jaded to the obvious destructive effects of inter-marriage for us Hyes. What I have outlined is pure and simple and not at all in tune with the witty analogy of Elusive Devilina, at best, her analogy was wrong and had absolutely nothing to do with what my side of this discussion is all about. Instead, what I have said was that IF as an INDIVIDUAL, you CARE about PRESERVATION of our heritage/lineage/culture and are involved in Armenian efforts, then the CHOICE of inter-marriage is wrong, non-beneficial, as well as meaningless; YOU CAN STILL MAKE the CHOICE of inter-marriage, but that DOES NOT make it correct IF you ARE an individual that wants preservation of our culture/heritage/lineage to be successful. I also said that IF you are an individual that simply doesn’t feel compelled enough to care about such things, then by all means, marry WHOEVER you want. Also, it is important to note that those that do get involved in inter-marriage then make massive efforts as Hyes, are essentially not doing much in the long run of our survival. The reason for this being the fact that at the basic level, the biggest effort of Hye proliferation comes through forming Armenian families, and inter-marriage DOES NOT produce Armenian families, it produces HALF-hye families that carry with them all the ethnic confliction that stems for the children of such a marriage. A Hye/odar union between two individuals doesn’t even hold the slightest candle or effectiveness when compared to a family that is composed of a Hye/Hye union, now keep in mind, this is with regards to ARMENIAN PRESERVATION; I don’t want to hear garbage about my comment being “condescending” or “bigotry” against odar/hye marriage, because it’s not, it’s just simple logic, you want to stay Hye and maintain your heritage/lineage/culture/way of life/etc/etc, you marry into another Hye family, not an odar family, NOTHING can dispute this simple LOGICAL assessment. Essentially, it is pointless to be a “super Armenian” in your community via high levels of involvement when in fact, at the basic level of forming a union with a Hye lover, you chose to not do so. All of you still HAVE a choice with regards to marriage, I never said you did not, nor did I say that if you do choose to inter-marry you should be persecuted. HOWEVER I did say that in the context of effort toward Armenian preservation, inter-marriage is the incorrect choice IF you CARE about maintaining your culture/heritage/lineage as an Armenian individual, plain and simple; stop trying to refute this fact with supposition. No matter how much denial you may be in regarding this matter, nothing anyone can say can hold water against such an absolute logical notion. If you nay-sayers need me to re-iterate this with a third grade rice analogy, then so be it. If we equate Armenian lineage/culture/heritage as “plain rice” the way Elusive Devilina did, then those individuals that care about KEEPING that rice PLAIN, logically SHOULD NOT make the CHOICE of adding SPICE to it, because once the spice has been added, it CANNOT be reversed and will NEVER taste anything remotely close to plain rice EVER again; hence you’ve forfeited your “plain” tasting rice (ie: culture/lineage/heritage). However, those that DO NOT care about tasting PLAIN rice EVER again, by all means, pour the WHOLE spice rack into your rice pot and chow down. Just DON’T show up at places where plain rice STILL exists with a look of LONGING because you chose to spice up your own plain rice and cannot reverse the process anymore. This longing is analogous to those that chose to inter-marry then mid-flight have a deep seeded regret because they realize what they have lost and can never have back for their own children, so what do they do? They decide to become “super Armenians” and get involved EVERYWHERE with Hye efforts, but regardless of how much they do, the basic critical decision of forming an Armenian family with another Hye lover they chose not to carry out. For some, this haunts them for the rest of their lives but they will never admit it because the minute they do they have to face the reality of their own disconnection and their children’s disconnection with other Armenians around the world as well their ethnic homeland of Armenia. The funny thing about “spicing things up” is the fact that regardless if you start with plain rice or beans or anything else, if you add enough spice recklessly and throw caution to the wind, in the end it will not taste at all like itself anymore, furthermore, rice and beans will begin to taste the same because they both were bombarded by spices because having beans and rice that is “plain” wasn’t interesting enough for individuals like Elusive Devilina. In the end you can’t even call it rice or beans anymore, it becomes a mixture of sludge that is unrecognizable under all that spice that you’ve poured on it, with so many tastes blended together, the luster of the original taste of that rice or beans is completely gone for good, you might as well ignore it and toss it all out, but since that was your ONLY batch of rice, once you’re screwed it up with “spicing it up” and are forced to toss it out for whatever reason, you don’t have anything left. In short, Armenianism has been destroyed through “spicing things up”. Maybe “spicing things up” isn’t as good as folks like Elusive Devilina claim it to be for us Armenians eh? Yes, I think this is true. As you can see ladies and gents, I can set-up nice little analogies too; but this two year old behavior is nonsensical jargon. This is a place of debate where logic and choices based such logic count when you’re trying to respond to what I have written. Supposition and adolescent analogies by folks like ED that are not even correct or in accordance to the context of what was written by me will not hold water against LOGICAL debate, TRUTH, and REALITY, no matter how much some of you would like to believe otherwise. If you decide to post, make a RELVEANT RESPONSE via a credible counter point that uses DEDUCTIVE REASONING, and for the love of God, BE CIVIL, most of you are old enough to at least do that much. Don’t approach anything I write with slander, putting words into my mouth, making character attacks, or using analogies that are not at all in tune with what I have written simply because you want to push forward your argument for the sake of pride rather than for the sake of truth/reality. Glad you're back Eve dear... Nicely put. I like my rice with some butter. One sentence band-wagoning followed by concise wit, the saga continues. QUOTE (mx5 @ Jun 11 2004, 07:59 PM) Did I miss something here? Yeah apparently you did. QUOTE Nope, you are half-Hye and your children will be even less so. And? What the hell is trying to prove? He knows he is half-Hye, why point it out like this? Is this some kind of argument? What do you mean “and”? Gurgen, have you been reading anything in this thread at all? Maybe if you weren’t so eager to come back with verbal jabs at me you would not have missed the point my friend. The debate here is “does inter-marriage hurt Armenians as far as their lineage, culture, and heritage is concerned”? The answer to that question is a big, “YES”! I wasn’t trying to point out Thoth being half-Armenian as a means to remind him of it or degrade him, I’m sure he knows this. The purpose of pointing out the fact that he is half-hye was to re-iterate that the inter-marriage that took place between his parents was DETRIMENTAL as far as Armenian preservation is concerned. His lineage is at this point half-hye, his other half is composed of some other ethnic group. He does not know how to speak Armenian. He does not know how to read nor write in Armenian. He does not know the Eibuben. As far as cultural aspects go, he has relied on external sources to begin to even REMOTELY understand Armenianism as a mentality, behavior, and way of life. On many degrees he does not fully belong to either classification of either half of his ethnic backgrounds and there exist a disconnection that will last his entire life then be passed on to his children in an even more severe form. As far as his children are concerned, he can only hope to pass along VERY LITTLE Armenianism down to them because he himself already knows/feels/understands so little when compared to what a child of Hye/Hye marriage can learn in a Hye family. Also, not all of what he knows will pass onto his kids because inherently his kids will have EVEN more disconnection because Thoth himself is half-Hye and has not grown up in a family that was made of a Hye/Hye couple, which makes a HUGE difference in how much of Armenian culture/tradition/heritage he carries with him and how much he can pass along to his kids. So as you can see, “the point” is that inter-marriage is not a positive decision for the individual that wants to proliferate and preserve his Armenian way of life, heritage, culture, traditions, and also lineage. With that said, Thoth’s situation clearly shows that as a child of a Hye/odar marriage, the part of him that is Armenian has DWINDLED, and it’s not surprising, that is what inter-marriage does and I’m just pointing this fact out for all you nay-sayers. It’s also only natural that Thoth’s own children will be even less “Armenian” in every sense of the word and on all levels; all this began when a Hye chose to inter-marry, Thoth, Anaheed, and others like them are living proof of this fact. Such facts cannot be disputed logically, it’s simply the truth of what inter-marriage does. I’m surprised that as a proclaimed Anthropologist, Thoth would not be the very first person to admit to the accuracy of my claims with regard to what inter-marriage does to ethnic groups and their culture/lineage/heritage. You can look at ANY tribe, ethnic group, or culture of people and one of the VERY FIRST actions that led to their self-destruction was not war, famine, etc, etc, it was simply inter-marriage or inter-breeding with individuals of other cultures, tribes, or ethnic groups. Any Anthropologist will quickly admit to this phenomenon as incredibly accurate and relevant. However, inter-marriage is a choice and everyone has the choice of inter-marriage, but at the same time all of you must understand the logical truth that IF you want to preserve your Hye identity on EVERY level, inter-marriage is NOT the right choice; there are no “ifs”, “buts”, or “ands” to this logic. If you want something to stay blue, you don’t mix other pigments with it. If you want a structure to hold its integrity, you don’t chip away at it with a chisel; it’s simple logic that cannot be disputed. The same applies to Armenian heritage, lineage, culture, tradition, way of life, and mentality; IF you care about preserving these things for yourself and your children as a Hye individual, you must realize that it ALL begins with finding a Hye lover and not an odar to form a HYE family, this is what will give all of us THE BEST chance of maintaining ourselves on all levels as a identifiable ethnic group on the globe. The truth is the truth, I have nothing against Thoth nor any other mixed child; I just point out the reality of the situation. Some of you continually try and paint me as the antagonist in such discussions by putting words into my mouth or making accusations of “bigotry”, etc, etc. I never have said that Thoth, Anaheed, or any other mixed child is a bad person, of low moral character, or anything else that is negative on a personal level. But as far as Armenian preservation goes, there is no grey area for this debate, children of inter-marriage hold less of a chance for preserving us as Hyes and their Hye lineage automatically gets destroyed at the onset of birth, this happened to the Jews and it will also happen to us if we continually think that it is somehow “inevitable” when it is not, not inter-marrying is a simple choice any one of you here can make, it’s NOT that difficult folks, no one is asking you to move mountains here. Stop making excuses for yourselves, instead just put your pride aside and admit to this obvious fact. I hope you get my “point” now Gurgen jan. And if my father and mother hadn't married and had children - well - there would be no ME. I am the result of this mix and would not have come into being any other way - so i am - of course - eternally grateful for that - and have no bitter ir negative feelings wahtsoever regarding such. Would it be that I had learned Armenian - of course I would have liked that - but I didn't and at this point in my life and circumstance - it is doubful that I will. Yes - I have some regret...but thats just the way it is..I do feel I have plenty going for me in other respects that it doesn't worry me much. Look Thoth, I never said the sheer fact that you were born was wrong, that’s just horribly cruel for anyone to say and I would NEVER even attempt to hurt someone in such a way. You were born and like all life, it’s a beautiful thing and you should be grateful, which you are. I also never said you should have negative feelings for being a mixed child, you’re a good person it seems and that is incredibly important. I’m not here to persecute you or anyone else with what I write, but what I do write will inevitable disturb some folks regardless of the fact that my intentions are to “tell it how it is”; some folks just don’t want to admit to the reality of certain situations. So what do they do when someone points things out? They label them and lash out against them, and with the case of these boards, a lot of folks here are conditioned to act this way and they also band-wagon when doing this. The way some posters jumped onboard with Elusive Devilina’s incorrect analogy in the face of logic is a testament to conditioned behavior, lack of foresight or critical thought, and a natural tendency to lash out as a band-wagoning conglomerate by some members here when the reality of the situation is put forth for all to see by young Armenians like me. The funny thing about truth is that some individuals are such bleeding “denialists” towards it that they will never fully comprehend the consequences of their actions until they have their nose in the dirt at the age of 80 with death’s cold clasp around their throat, then they’ll say “oh $hit, he was right”, and as we all know, 20/20 vision is always in hindsight. All of you need to make certain you don’t fall into this trap, we need to make these realization now while we’re young and invincible so that we can forge the future to our liking in a way to best benefit who we are as Armenians on this Earth. I’m not here to talk about whether Thoth the mixed child is a “good person” or not due to inter-marriage. What I AM here for, is to raise the question, “is Thoth the mixed child AS GOOD of a carrier/propagator of Armenian lineage, culture, heritage, tradition, language, way of life, and mentality as a child that is of Hye/Hye marriage?” The answer to this is an obvious “NO”, every mixed child such as you is living proof of this. You simply cannot dispute this fact Thoth, for us to survive as a people, inter-marriage is not and cannot be a “good thing” on any level if you care about preservation, whether it’s here in the United States or on the planet Venus. Yet, with such blatant obvious facts in front of some of the Hyes here, they still refuse to accept this notion because IF they do in fact accept such a notion, they incriminate themselves because A) they are involved with an odar for whatever reason or they are a child of mix marriage such yourself and thus can’t help but take offense to what I write or C) they would like to get involved with an odar, but The Armenian Pirate pointing these things out to them creates a thorn of guilt in their side, so they lash out against me instead of actually trying to overcome the stigmatizations of Armenian “girl and boy” dynamics in our communities that separates our young girls and boys from one another. You see Thoth, the enticement of inter-marriage is nothing that is merely a superficial social phenomenon, its cause is MUCH deeper, one must investigate a little and pretty soon, it all begins to tie together. Most Hye youth in our Armenian communities (and I’ve been to MANY across the world during my traveling days), ESPECIALLY our young women, have incredible stigmatization to overcome that have been passed down from their parents. It is all ridiculous notions of “makur”/”non-makur” and who is “makur” enough to get “seriously” involved with. It’s not a surprise to me sometimes to see a Hye girl in a sexual relationship with an odar when her choice of an open-sexual relationship with a Hye lover would leave her with nothing but community persecution, gossip, and slander. Even women as mature as their 20’s suffer from this, you would think that by the age of 20-something, a young Hye could comfortably have a sexually-open relationship with a Hye lover, but in some communities this is NOT the case, it is ridiculous! A few backwards thinking Hye men also have contributed to this phenomenon by brutally disrespecting women that decided to share a bed with them as lovers, after such an experience, why would a Hye woman want to risk such brutalization again when an odar will keep everything nice and “hush hush”? As horrible as persecution may be, the problem with this mentality by Hye women is that they fail to REALIZE that NOT ALL Hye men are radically backwards when it comes to human sexuality, in fact, MANY are INCREDIBLY OPEN minded. Thus, women that have been socially persecuted by their Hye lovers are scared away from the notion of being sexually involved with a Hye guy that might be interested in her; so what does she do? She certainly cannot shut her sexual drive down, so she chooses to steer clear of Hye lovers and before you know it, that “sexual fling” with the odar becomes an emotional attachment that leads to inter-marriage, kiss another potential Hye/Hye family good-bye. All this is inter-connected and many such stigmas such as those involved with the sexual dynamics between Hye men and women contribute to inter-marriage occurring, which ultimately contributes to the destruction of Armenian lineage, heritage, and culture. The question all of you Armenians have to ask yourselves is, how do we change such things between ourselves as Armenian youth? The answer is simple, as an individual, you look around and train yourself to recognize what TRULY is “Armenian” culture/heritage/tradition and you hold on to it with all your might because it is incredibly precious, once it is gone, it will be gone for good. Things such as harassing our beautiful young Hye sisters for their relationships with Hye men ARE NOT “Armenian culture/tradition”, they are social stigmas that have been left behind as remnants of our parents’ past social atmosphere in places such as Iran, Lebanon, Armenia, and other places. These stigmas can be wiped out, leaving behind things that are true tradition, culture, and heritage that belong to Armenians and can be called Armenian. Only, we as Armenian youth can make these changes through active effort. If you’re a Hye guy and end up doing the wild thing with a Hye girl that digs you and your buddy asks you if anything happened, say “if it did, it’s none of your business” instead of automatically assuming that the girl was “not makur” for getting involved with you and disrespecting her in front of your friends. Likewise, perhaps Hye women that are incredibly wary of getting involved with Hye men due to a bad past experience should give the next Hye guy a chance instead of swearing off Hye men for good. These are simple decisions but they DO make a difference and DO create a new movement in the efforts of destroying negative stigmas. It all begins with us, the Armenian youth. I feel for your dilema...but I don't see a solution beyond working with what you've got...ie you can't force Armenians in the diaspora to be one way or another - they will do what they will - what they percieve to be in their interests etc - and if continuing to be immersed in some degree of Armenian culture is of value to them - then they will do so - to varrying degrees. Yes - you will lose many to the dominant/local culture...but bottom line is there is little you can do about this...so you must work with what you have...and my advice also is to be inclussive - and understanding - that not all Armenians will choose to continue their traditions to the same degeee as you or others - but all should be embraced and exposed or what not - because I do believe that we have a wonderful culture, wonderful people and a very very special history and place in the world... You’re right, you cannot force Armenians one way or another, and this discussion isn’t about what an individual HAS TO DO, but rather, in the reality of the situation we’re in as Armenians, what is the MOST correct and the MOST beneficial course of action Armenian men and women should take in terms of preserving ourselves as a people? The answer is simple, the reality of the situation is that we as Diasporans, for whatever reason, have been scattered and have formed communities that still are strongly linked to our motherland. Now, to keep that link strong on the planes of culture, heritage, tradition, and lineage, there are inherent actions and decision that one can make that are without a shadow of a doubt MORE correct (in the context of preservation) than other actions and decisions. This is the essence of my ideas and what I write about, that is, there are in fact MORE correct decisions/actions (for those Diasporans interested in our preservation) to make/take. Now, am I saying that the interest for preservation HAS to be there? No, such an expectation is unrealistic and cannot possibly be enforced without basic human rights violations. HOWEVER, IF an individual DOES in fact have interest in his/her preservation as an Armenian on all levels (culture/heritage/lineage), then YES, there exist decisions/actions such as NOT inter-marrying that are inherently and logically the CORRECT manner to accomplish preservation regardless of where you are on the Earth. I consider my ideas as absolute because they are based on logic and reasoning after the variables of the situation and the reality of our people’s situation is taken into account and dissected. What I write is not based on supposition or the politically correct credibility given to the ideas of some other individuals here merely because it is “their opinion and must be respected”, I’ll respect other people’s opinions, but that does not make those opinions correct with respect to what we must do as a people to survive, all of you need to remember this. Thus, to say that individuals that have interest in Armenian preservation “can do little about it” is wrong Thoth, because in fact, each and every individual that has interest in preserving their Hye lineage, culture, tradition, heritage, etc, can do VERY MUCH about it via making CORRECT decisions to maximize that preservation, and simple decisions such as not inter-marrying or making efforts toward forming a union with a Hye lover are not the astronomical burdens many folks make it out to be. What I do not like nor do I believe, is the way those that are of mixed marriages or have chosen not to care, continually try and put forth the idea that preservation decisions are incredibly hard tasks when in fact they are not. To me, this is like seeing a house on fire burning slowly, and seeing an individual standing there confused as to how to stop that fire. Now instead of telling that individual that water will extinguish that fire and showing him how to properly pour that water, you teach that confused “neutral” individual that petroleum ether is what will extinguish that fire simply because you yourself in the past did not want to make efforts toward extinguishing that very same fire when it was your turn to do so. Consequently, as a side note about the issue of “opinions”, I have a few words to say. The social pacifists and those here that are quick on the trigger with accusations of “racist”/”bigot” or those that are bleeding proponents of “political correctness” and “respecting other people’s opinions in order to be PC” should heed extra special attention. . . . . If respecting opinions were to be equated to having them be correct merely because they are being respected, then my opinion is that Jeffrey Damer had good taste in dining on human flesh when he slaughtered all those young individuals. Since this is “my opinion”, everyone here must respect it for politically correctness’ sake, and since it is being respected, we should assume it is an absolutely correct opinion. In fact, because it is “my opinion” among a sea of other “opinions”, it MUST be JUST AS correct as another person that says killing other human beings is wrong and dining on them is even more wrong. Sarcasm aside, this type of treatment of “opinions” doesn’t quite work, does it? It’s missing logic and reasoning, that’s why. If we were to look at the situation for what it truly is using my approach of logic/reason instead of worrying about being “socially/politically correct and respecting opinions regardless of how wrong they may be” on these socialite forum boards, then what you have, is a psychotic maniac that killed other human beings and then ate them for his own delight and eventually got what was coming to him in jail, end of story. This same technique should be used when discussing issues about our preservation tactics, we should see things for what they are and also realize what actions/decisions are inherently/logically the BEST ones and CORRECT ones as far as preservation efforts are concerned instead of continually trying to say that “somehow everyone is right since we are all expressing opinions”. Expressing your “opinion” does not automatically make it correct folks, don’t be so naïve and sheep like. You can express your opinion that gravity does not exist then jump off a cliff, you won’t be able to float, trust me. The same reasoning can be used with regards to the topics we discuss about ourselves as Armenians, NOT EVERY opinion is “a good choice” merely because “opinions must be respected”, you’re just led to believe this because nearly all of you here are conditioned to be “good human beings to one another no matter how wrong the other person may be about a certain matter” by “respecting other people’s opinions”, FINE, respect it; but don’t respect something then equate it as being “correct” simply because you’ve decided to respect it. Respecting something does not make it “correct”, never has and NEVER WILL because it is based on supposition and social acceptance ONLY, it’s not based on LOGIC and REASONING, and we all know logic/reasoning have much better track records than supposition and political correctness, realize this and try not to forget it ladies and gentlemen. Alas - I may never learn Armenian...I'm not very good with languages to begin with...and unless I have a real compelling reason (like moving to Armenia or such) - I doubt that I will ever attempt to learn it. Yes - I'm somewhat sorry of this (because as an Anthropologist and as someone who understands I do know what i am missing)- but again - that is just the way of it...for me... Again, one has to wonder, how much of everything you lack as a half-Armenian stemmed from the inter-marriage between your parents. Logic, experience, and reason allows me to profess that A LOT of the lacking that you have, stemmed from inter-marriage, of course getting you to admit this is unlikely, but it is true never the less Thoth and I think deep down just like many others here, you know this just as much as I do but don’t like to admit it perhaps due to personal pride or some other reason. While I have absolutely no ill-will towards you, my main concern is not you as a mixed child, things are already late in the game for you, so to speak. At best I can hope that you’re involved with your Hye-half and will try and cling onto it somewhat actively while instilling some of the richness into your children as well, and it seems that you’re doing this to a respectable degree, which is excellent! However, I’m mainly concerned with those young Hyes here that still have the choice of choosing a Hye or Odar as a lifelong partner in marriage and I try and write about what the realistic outcomes are for the way they make that choice in marriage. Regardless of how much some individuals here would like to deny the reality of making the odar choice, it does have negative consequences for our people in terms of our preservation of everything that is Armenian, and in a very conditioned manner I’m persecuted for maintaining the truth that hurts the ears of some of the readers here. I guess this type of behavior by them is what being a “modern good politically correct human being” is all about. Thank God I’m not such a being, what a truly “cattle amongst the herd” way of life that must be. And again - Armenian national heritage is pretty much an issue for Armenians from Armenia - and of course those from the Diaspora who involve themselves in Armenia. EXACTLY! You’re absolutely correct! However, if we stress the importance of Diasporan involvement less and less then essentially the numbers of “Diasporans who involve themselves in Armenia” will drop down and become smaller and smaller, ultimately nullifying itself, which is not good for obvious reasons that are amazingly oblivious to some members here. Instead, we must promote preservation, involvement, togetherness, inter-mingling among the Hye youth, and most importantly, marriages that are composed of two Armenians, not a odars and Armenians if we’re to have any hope of maintaining a high statistical number for “Diaspora who involve themselves in Armenia”. Ultimately, the likelihood of an odar that is married to a Hye recognizing the importance of his/her Hye lover’s importance in being involved with Armenia/Armenianism will inherently be MUCH LESS than a Hye recognizing his/her Hye lover’s involvement with Armenianism because he/she himself is a Hye within a Hye/Hye marriage. This notion cannot be disputed and can EASILY be statistically be proven, suffice that I say it is absolute. How do you know this? I worry and I care and I contribute and do what I can..but bottom line I am a citizen of the USA - my family and children are from here and this is my home, my nation, my (family's) future...this is just the facts - and it is also true for the majority of Diasporan Armenians I imagine...not everyone is concerned with larger social or political issues (not saying that I am not - because I am) - most people worry about their daily lives, providing for their families and their families futures. The fact that I am aware and follow the general goings on in Armenia, with Armenians and in the diaspora is certainly some sign that I do care and I am involved...but fundementally my life is in the USA even if in my heart I feel that I am Armenian and identify with, pull for and am involved with Armenians (to the extent that I am). You speak incredibly naïvely my friend. You think the fact that some Armenian Diasporans are not concerned with larger social and political issues is in any way a notion that is to merely be dismissed as if it does not matter or does not affect those very same individuals that claim to be “too busy”? Do you seriously believe that by claiming to be “too busy personally or with my family’s future” to be actively involved in Armenian issues and preservation will protect you, your family, or any other Hye here in times of Armenian persecution? Even as a half-Hye you will not be immune, trust me. If you do believe you will be immune because you place this nation “above” Hye issues/preservation as a half-Armenian or an Armenian, you know nothing of the world around you and will always be vulnerable and your family will also be vulnerable my friend. It was not even a year ago, that THIS nation, the one you “place above” your Armenian affiliation and pronounce it as your “bread and butter” so to speak, declared Armenia a terrorist state and Armenians as potential terrorists. HAD it NOT been for the feverish lobbying of Armenians that are wide-awake, aware, and active in Armenian preservation and involvement, we would have been categorized as terrorist, and we all know how well the Japanese were treated during the WW2 incident Japanese that were here in the U.S. And yet with all this parlayed in front of you and others on these boards, you would profess that true preservationist efforts are not of important enough significance and it should all be dumped on the backs of Armenians in Armenia because we are merely “Diasporan”. Diasporans of Hye/Hye parents ARE Armenian too my friend, though some of them have been brilliantly bred into being children of pop-culture and the media’s blitzkrieg, we are Armenian never the less, and thus, share as much responsibility for the nurturing, growth, and success of our ancestral homeland as those Armenians that live there, stop trying to deny this fact merely because it allows for the veil of responsibility to be lifted from our heads, the easier way of dumping responsibility is not necessarily the best path as an Armenian or half-Armenian; it will come back and haunt you down the road, history has proved this time and time again with those ethnic groups that are extinct now, let us not be one of them. And my argument is that Armenia lives on....in Armenia...and to whatever degree those in the Diaspora continue to embrace it... No, Armenia lives as an ancestral land mass that belongs to me as an Armenian by birth right but it also lives in me as well, NOT just “in Armenia”. It is part of my soul, my heart, my being, and flows through my blood. Armenia needs me, as its child, to protect it, nurture it, and look after it, REGARDLESS of WHERE I may be at the present time in my life or where my Hye/Hye parents gave birth to me. It’s not just to a “whatever” degree that we need to embrace our Armenia, because for its survival which will allow for our own survival as Armenians, we must embrace it to a distinct degree of importance in all our lives as young Armenians. We must not forget it and abandon it because it will NEVER abandon us as Armenians and as its children, it belongs to us. ANY Armenian in any part of the world can always pick up and head over there and declare it as his/her ancestral home regardless of what state it is in at the time or what political agenda it may have; the same cannot be said of other states some of us live in currently, do not ever forget this my fellow Armenian brothers and sisters. Some of us may live in modern westernized states but that does not mean we must ourselves sacrifice who it is we are as Armenians or forfeit our lineage, heritage, traditions, way of life, or culture merely because of this notion of “living somewhere that is not Armenia”. We should try and support one another, overcome social stigmas that hold us down as Hyes, create unification as Armenians amongst all types of Armenians, not look down upon one another, and like I said previously; nurture, support, and help make our ancestral homeland as successful as possible, and the first step to this is not abandoning it or forgetting about it, but rather recognizing that it is a tangible piece of land that is ours’ which has been for a long time and that it can live, breathe, grow, within us only if we realize that we are just as accountable for its failure or success as those that live in Armenia. All you proponents of “good examples to follow” by the Jews know that every foreign Israeli has this mentality toward Israel and they are not any more special than us as an ethnic group. So let us try to not quickly dump preservationist responsibilities as Armenians on other Armenians merely because we “don’t live in Armenia”, this notion is ridiculous and nothing but a cop-out excuse for alleviating yourself of accountability or personal stress. When there is no preservationist effort to whine about because there is no “Armenians” or “Armenia” and you as an individual are considered as a person without an ethnic identity, what then will some of you use as an excuse to supposedly alleviate stress from your personal lives? Whether you agree with me or not, always think critically about such things, perhaps then you will see things in a different light and change your mind on such topics. This topic is spent, have a great weekend everyone, have fun and stay safe. -The Armenian Pirate TheArmenianPirateBroadcast@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 The funny thing about “spicing things up” is the fact that regardless if you start with plain rice or beans or anything else, if you add enough spice recklessly and throw caution to the wind, in the end it will not taste at all like itself anymore, furthermore, rice and beans will begin to taste the same because they both were bombarded by spices... In the end you can’t even call it rice or beans anymore, it becomes a mixture of sludge that is unrecognizable under all that spice that you’ve poured on it, with so many tastes blended together, the luster of the original taste of that rice or beans is completely gone for good, you might as well ignore it and toss it all out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Some of us may live in modern westernized states but that does not mean we must ourselves sacrifice who it is we are as Armenians or forfeit our lineage, heritage, traditions, way of life, or culture merely because of this notion of “living somewhere that is not Armenia”. You already have "sacrificed it" no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. Basically you want to have your cake, eat it too, and still stay slim and pretty like the ancient armenians. Well, it just doesn't work that way. If you eat the cake, you'll get fat no matter how much you scream "I am on a diet". Ok fine, I'm not as good as some people with the analogies but at least I tried. Edit: I hope you realize that just like everyone else's opinion, your "argument" is also based on suppositions with an example in the quote above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 (edited) Excellent post Armenian Pirate,great value for those who want to read and grasp its meanings. As a person living in lebanon I would like to say that the social stigmas regardin to armenian females have been changed dramatically here and it is helping to more hye/hye marriages . One more thing to say,yes you are right most of the hye/odar marriages are ending up with failure,proof,many of them are coming forward and admitting their regret in open,the last of whom being a nighbour of mine...its a long story.... Edited June 20, 2004 by mx5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Hello Pirate, Your point is: mixed marriages are one major step towards reducing the amount of Armenians in the diaspora. Hard to take issue with that. Please move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mx5 Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Sip, I for one consider The Armenian Diaspora as an Extansion of Armenia itself,knowing that once that I am preserving myself as an armenian I can be helpfull to it in many ways if ever is requiered from me ,even go and live there if neccesery. but from what i see you are the proponent of the other view,which is :If you are living outside Armenia it is useless to make an effort for preserving youself as Armenian. I dont mind that view but in my opinion a strong and integrated armenian diaspora can become very usefull tool in Armenias' well being in many ways.and for that reason we need people who have faith in themselves as Armenians first....!! jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25% Proof Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 Your point is: mixed marriages are one major step towards reducing the amount of Armenians in the diaspora. Thanks for your summary Boghos - I lost the will to live after the first thousand words (I lie... I only read the first paragraph) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArmenianPirate Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 QUOTE (TheArmenianPirate @ Jun 19 2004, 04:26 PM) Some of us may live in modern westernized states but that does not mean we must ourselves sacrifice who it is we are as Armenians or forfeit our lineage, heritage, traditions, way of life, or culture merely because of this notion of “living somewhere that is not Armenia”. You already have "sacrificed it" no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. Basically you want to have your cake, eat it too, and still stay slim and pretty like the ancient armenians. Well, it just doesn't work that way. If you eat the cake, you'll get fat no matter how much you scream "I am on a diet". No actually I haven’t sacrificed anything, YOU may have bud, but not me. Perhaps you don’t want to be the only one doing so, thus you are a proponent of assimilation while making attempts to antagonize those that are not. Yes, you’re right, I do want to have my cake AND eat it too, in fact, I CAN do it and I’m doing it RIGHT NOW and it feels so damn good. Every single day of my life I wake up knowing that I’m extremely educated, a successful professional, and an active Armenian that knows his own language, history, and tradition inside-out while also being extremely aware of all socio-political events that affect his fellow Armenians. I don’t represent the spineless sheep that cower and forget who it is they are the minute they set foot in a new environment, I’m Hye no matter where I go, regardless of how the system around me functions or expects me to operate, I was born Armenian and that is what I will preserve as well as protect. I also do not represent the extremist that may have lost respect or value for his fellow human being simply because he is non-Hye. Instead, there is a blend of both of these extremes that I represent, a neo-Armenian mentality of being modern and operating in a western system while simultaneously carrying enough self-worth to not get lost within that system or forgetting my lineage, culture, and heritage as an Armenian. My interests are for me, my family, and my people, and as long as odars do not attempt and violate those interests, we won’t have any problems. Should anyone decide to verbally attack Armenians, I’ll respond in kind. If it’s a written assault, I’ll respond. If it’s a physical one in which a fellow Hye brother or sister is persecuted in any way, then I’ll grind the opposition into the ground underneath my heel with the equivalent level of mercy as they showed toward my fellow Armenian. It’s a very simple and an extremely easy mentality to live by, the only people that continually whine about it are the very same ones that never have the courage to create a path for themselves in life, that’s why they will always follow and not lead. They can only stay on paths that have already been made, effectively, they are governed by the rules or expectations of odars instead of their own, this needs to change, so I try to contribute by writing out my ideas. Maybe 99% of readers will think of my ideas as BS, but the 1% that agree with me will be such effective and powerful individuals they will more than make up for those that are still lost in social pacifism. Edit: I hope you realize that just like everyone else's opinion, your "argument" is also based on suppositions with an example in the quote above. Actually it’s not, I’m not “supposing” that there are those Hyes that live in westernized states, they DO in fact live there and are very real. I am also not “supposing” that some weak minded Hyes that have little self-worth completely lose themselves the minute they are born into or walk into foreign soil as Diasporans, because some actually HAVE lost themselves, they will realize the fallacy of their decision at an older age, trust me. Lastly, I’m not “supposing” that we need not sacrifice our identity/lineage/heritage/culture as Hyes, because men and women like myself exist and I have yet to make any of those sacrifices that those that have already made them claim are “unavoidable” in order to appease their own guilt. Thus conclusively, we can say logically that the example you used was a statement of realism and factuality rather than that of supposition. I believe you’re confused. No actually, I feel you’re once again arguing for the sake of argument within a thread of debate that you don’t agree with. Instead of contributing something with regard to the multiple topics I covered in my text, you chose to instead sift through ten pages and find one sentence to give me a hard time with, excellent work. This is to be expected by now, I was just curious as to how many posts it would take before it began. The post criticism band-wagoning however is surprisingly missing. In any case though, that example was definitely not a supposition, if it was a supposition, I would not need to point it out as a damaging social phenomenon in our Hye communities nor would I worry about such a phenomenon to begin with. Hello Pirate, Your point is: mixed marriages are one major step towards reducing the amount of Armenians in the diaspora. Hard to take issue with that. Please move on. You’re absolutely right Boghos jan, hard to take issue with it, it’s as plain to see as daylight, and yet there still are those that would deny it with the greatest of social delusions. I call them “KORR”, I think it fits well. There are some interesting threads that have recently popped up, one in particular I’d like to comment about soon. Those of you for which text lengths greater than 7 sentences causes eye strain, pain, weakness, physical discomfort, nausea, rectal constipation, moral fatigue, erectile dis-function, or any other negative side-effects for having read multiple paragraphs in an attempt to grasp possible new ideas for yourselves; make sure you look for my name next to a thread or post and DON’T click on it. This neat little trick should make sure you remain mentally naive, docile, and pacifistic for years to come.This thread is done with. -The Armenian Pirate TheArmenianPirateBroadcast@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I am also not “supposing” that some weak minded Hyes that have little self-worth completely lose themselves the minute they are born into or walk into foreign soil as Diasporans, because some actually HAVE lost themselves,... Dear Pirate, that is IN FACT supposing. It's simply your "holier than thou" attitude that blinds you to the point of not being able to see how much of a supposition that statement is! To clarify, your assumption is that staying a "Pure Armenian" is a goal in and of itself. You put down anyone who doesn't share that goal. If you don't see how assumptive that is, then we will just keep going in circles. Now regarding your other claim that you are maintaining your "Armenianness" in the diaspora ... that is up to debate. I maintain that the second you left Armenia you lost part of it. You had to .. there is no other way to survive in a foreign land than to adapt and adopt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Those of you for which text lengths greater than 7 sentences causes eye strain, pain, weakness, physical discomfort, nausea, rectal constipation, moral fatigue, erectile dis-function, or any other negative side-effects for having read multiple paragraphs in an attempt to grasp possible new ideas for yourselves; make sure you look for my name next to a thread or post and DON’T click on it. Good advice, especially since it is only your 8, or 80, or 800 sentence postings that seem to have those negative side-effects on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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