Does This Planet Have Future?

[Sip]

It seems you speak out of experience

How's that?

[axel]

She's not that feminine, is she? Her being a pain in the *ss (for me) doesn't suffice to qualify her for womanhood, does it?

[Stormig]

She's not that feminine, is she? Her being a pain in the *ss (for me) doesn't suffice to qualify her for womanhood, does it?

I think it only defines the dominant and the submissive where you and I are concerned.

[axel]

If you want although I don't see how hemorrhoids could possibly be considered as dominant but I'm willing to leave you this satisfaction. Edited June 2, 2004 by axel

[15levels]

Empty rethoric. Dont you boys have better things to do?

[angel4hope]

yes... how do we go from discussing the plante to discussing hemmhorroids?

[Armen]

Shafarevich's book is a study of socialism...

Alex, thanks for the introduction. Interesting, never heard of Shafarovich but I see he's from them same gang as Solzhenitsin.

I'm more into Roudolf Steiner. And there is so much too read...

Anyway if I find something particularly interesting in the link you provided I'll let you know.

Edited June 3, 2004 by ArmenSarg

[Armen]

ArmenSarg, you seem pretty well-versed in this subject. I was wondering what you'd have to say about Kuznets (sp?) - he's on my list of must-read's, but I have a way to go before I come to him - this is very peripheral (understatement) to what I do at the moment. I was also wondering if you'd have other suggestions.

Stormy jan, Internet says Kuznets is a Nobel Prize winning Russian born economist. Didn't know him, thanks. Actually, I don't know anything on the subject if you mean environmentalizm. I just have pieces of info that connect to each other. Plus, recently I had to do an intensive research on organochlorines for my paper ( the research was completely irrelevan to my major/ our instuctor is a freak). While reading the stuff I somehow went deep into the gene mutation thing (give a search for organochlorines) and when I read about the masculinization/feminization it just made a lot of sense.

 

What I suggest to read? Mmm..this:

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/conf-iclc...994_brewda.html

[axel]

Empty rethoric. Dont you boys have better things to do?

 

True. I declare a unilateral ceasefire.

[axel]

I'm more into Roudolf Steiner.

I haven't read him. I am not much into theosophy and the like. I am an orthodox christian.

[Stormig]

Beyond the Special Effects of "The Day After Tomorrow" --

 

Climate Change, Environmental Disasters and Gas Prices

 

JULIA VERVILLE, PETER FRUMHOFF, [via Linda Gunter, lgunter@ucsusa.org],

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/g...rming/index.cfm

Verville is a staff scientist with the Union of Concerned Scientists

specializing in climate impacts. She said today: "Levels of carbon dioxide

in the atmosphere are higher today than they have been for 400,000 years.

The Earth is already warming and will continue to warm in the coming

decades as a result of our emissions of heat-trapping gases." Frumhoff

directs the Global Environment Program at UCS. He said today: "The

dramatic, virtually instantaneous and worldwide cooling depicted in the

film 'The Day After Tomorrow' is fiction, but like all good science

fiction, the film has at its core some important scientific facts....

Barring swift action to reduce our emissions, the Earth will continue to

warm, and extreme weather events will become more common."

 

KEVIN TRENBERTH, trenbert@ucar.edu, http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/cas

Trenberth is head of the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center

for Atmospheric Research and was a lead author of the 2001 climate change

report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. He said today:

"Higher prices on gasoline could help reduce emissions of greenhouse gases

by creating pressure for increased fuel efficiency and decreased fuel

expenditures. Automobile manufacturers would feel pressured to produce the

better vehicles that customers would almost invariably demand when faced

with higher gas costs. Higher prices on gasoline can have an up-side,

therefore, in several ways.... Higher prices by increased taxes could

provide resources for use within this country -- revenue from such a tax

could provide rebates for fuel-efficient vehicles and for subsidizing the

energy costs of the poor or the elderly. Gas guzzlers like Hummers

currently receive tax rebates -- instead they should be taxed more than

fuel-efficient cars. It's a win-win proposition as we might also end up

walking and bicycling more, improving our health and the health of our

planet. Higher prices -- as long as they don't rise too fast and too much

-- can better reflect the value of gasoline and make sure we treat it as a

valuable resource."

 

TOM ATHANASIOU, toma@ecoequity.org, PAUL BAER, pbaer@ecoequity.org,

http://www.sevenstories.com/Book/index.cfm...=58322100091700

Athanasiou and Baer are co-authors of the new book "Dead Heat: Global

Justice and Global Warming." Athanasiou said today: "Unfortunately, the

Bush administration has chosen to reject the Kyoto Protocol and to deny the

long-term consequences of oil dependency, and has reduced the politics of

energy to the politics of domination and war. What's needed urgently is a

just climate treaty based on equal human rights to the atmospheric commons;

such a treaty is crucial to cutting a path to sustainability on our planet

with such explosive national, ideological, and class divides."

 

ROSS GELBSPAN, ross@theworld.com, http://www.heatisonline.org

Author of the book "The Heat Is On: The Climate Crisis, The Cover-Up, The

Prescription," Gelbspan said today: "It may be an unintended irony that the

film premiered on the same day that record-setting downpours killed more

than 2,000 people in Haiti and the Dominican Republic.... It shouldn't take

disasters for us to begin acting on this very urgent issue."

 

For more information, contact at the Institute for Public Accuracy:

Sam Husseini, (202) 347-0020; David Zupan, (541) 484-9167

[Stormig]

This one is interesting...

 

Gas may have spurred ancient global warming, says Nature - A vast belch of gas from beneath the North Atlantic 55 million years ago may have warmed the planet and holds clues to threats from an even faster modern surge in greenhouse gases, scientists said Wednesday.

http://www.enn.com/news/2004-06-03/s_24489.asp

[Armen]

I haven't read him. I am not much into theosophy and the like. I am an orthodox christian.

He is the founder of anthroposophy ("wisdom about human" as opposed to theosophy - "wisdom about god").

I am a Christian and I believe that all churches (church hierarchies, systems) of the world are evil.

[Armen]

Empty rethoric. Dont you boys have better things to do?

Don't you at least have some respect, compassion etc. for people's efforts to fill your thread with some substance

[axel]

Well, Armen, I will have to read him in order to express a balanced judgement . But I've often encountered his name associated with that of Blavatsky so as opposed as the words anthroposophy and theosophy might appear to be, I am led to believe the underlying philosophies are closely related. I have to tell you I am suspicious of mystico-religious philosophers/gnostics/occultists... (Böhme, Soloviev...). Berdyaev has written very interesting critical essays but his own philosophy (as exposed for instance in "the destiny of man") I find quite dubious.

 

As to the churches being evil, well it is true that most of the institutions and their leaders have compromised themselves with the spirit of the world and that what some refer to as "sergianism" is a rampant evil in this age of apostasy. Still, one has to distinguish between the visible and the invisible. I believe rejecting the church as a whole is no solution. It has to be saved from within.

[Armen]

He worte a lot about Blavatskaya (she was a woman) but anthroposophy is actually anti-phylosophical and anti-teosophycal in a sense that, as Steiner put it, "athroposophy begins at the point where phylosophy ends". There is no religion or gnosticism in anthoposophy but there sure is a lot of occultism. Berdiaev and Sovoliov are marginal in anthoposophy, as Steiners works laid its basis. Also, he has around 20 books and 100 articles. I believe the fundamental one is "The Phylosophy of Freedom" were he makes the step forward to anthroposophy from phylosophy. Here it is if you have time: http://www.elib.com/Steiner/Books/GA004/TPOF/

 

I agree with you on churches.

[axel]

She was a woman

I know but in the west we tend to use westernized names

 

Thank for you for the reference. It will serve as an entry point for me.

[bellthecat]

I'm more into Roudolf Steiner. And there is so much too read...

Anyway if I find something particularly interesting in the link you provided I'll let you know.

Many years ago I visited their "Goetheanum" building in Basel, Germany. The building looks sort of like a huge skull from the outside - and a half-finished 1920s cinema from the inside. Inhabited by a bunch of weirdos with dead expressions.

 

They had a big "idol" of some sort in the deepest, most central, part of the building. I don't remember what it looked like and photographing it was strictly forbidden (as was looking at it directly for too long if you weren't a believer).

 

They all lived in little houses in the grounds. They painted the walls of their houses with layer after layer of paint, mostly orange - each a slightly different shade than the previous - it gave a strange and attractive sort of luminous effect.

[Sasun]

True. I declare a unilateral ceasefire.

We need more like your attitude

[Sasun]

He worte a lot about Blavatskaya (she was a woman) but anthroposophy is actually anti-phylosophical and anti-teosophycal in a sense that, as Steiner put it, "athroposophy begins at the point where phylosophy ends". There is no religion or gnosticism in anthoposophy but there sure is a lot of occultism. Berdiaev and Sovoliov are marginal in anthoposophy, as Steiners works laid its basis. Also, he has around 20 books and 100 articles. I believe the fundamental one is "The Phylosophy of Freedom" were he makes the step forward to anthroposophy from phylosophy. Here it is if you have time: http://www.elib.com/Steiner/Books/GA004/TPOF/

 

I agree with you on churches.

I will check out the link. I would like to know if Steiner has himself attained freedom. Sorry if that is already written on the website, I don't have time to read now.

[bellthecat]

And here it is:

 

http://www.goetheanum.ch/building/index.html

 

Im not sure if the "idol" I remember seeing is what they describe as "the large wooden sculpture called “The Representative of the Human Being” ".

 

And it's not in Germany - but in Switzerland (shows how long ago I was there, I can't even remember the country it was in!)

[axel]

I would like to know if Steiner has himself attained freedom

 

I guess nobody knows the secret of the souls but the "goethanum" surely looks like something taken out of "the prisoner" series

[Sasun]

I guess nobody knows the secret of the souls but the "goethanum" surely looks like something taken out of "the prisoner" series

I don't know "the prisoner" series (is that a movie?), well there aren't many windows on the building. But the architecture is very interesting, sort of reminding alien architecture that we see in some sci-fi movies such as Startrek.

[DominO123]

Did someone here read "The Collapse of the Kyoto Protocol and the Struggle to Slow Global Warming" ???

[bellthecat]

I don't know "the prisoner" series (is that a movie?), well there aren't many windows on the building. But the architecture is very interesting, sort of reminding alien architecture that we see in some sci-fi movies such as Startrek.

Naw, for Startrek they used Brazilia (or copies of it), or newly-built 1960s college campuses minus all the students.

 

"The Prisoner" a movie! Never!! God help us if Hollywood ever get their hands on it.