nairi Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 CULTURE & SOCIETY 05.17.2004 Monday Akdamar Church in Ruins Famous for its 10th century Church of the Holy Cross, the Akdamar Church on the island of Akdamar in Lake Van's is almost in ruins. The church, which is visited by many foreign tourists, is worn out and close to ruins. The church has been neglected and harmed by treasure hunters and at risk of collapsing. Both its foundation and ceiling have cracks and holes. The City of Van's Culture and Tourism Province Director, Bilal Sonmez, told Zaman that a project for the preservation of the historical identity of the church is already being prepared. Sonmez said that the issue has already been transferred to the Culture and Nature Assets Council and that the directorate is waiting for a decision. Erdogan Acar, a tourist at the church, said that he was nervous to walk around inside the church because of its near ruined condition. He added, "We could prove that we are a great nation if we claim our historical heritage." http://www.zaman.com/2004/05/14/akdamar_b.jpg 14.05.2004 05.14.2004 Ahmet Ünal Van http://www.zaman.com/?bl=culture&alt=&hn=8549 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Nairi - this is all a bunch of lies. It is part of a con by people in Van to extract a lot of money from the Turkish Ministry of Culture. Every year that this church avoids a "restoration" is actually another year that has been saved. See Ani to understand what I mean. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted May 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Thanks. I got this message from the Assembly of Armenians of Europe and was wondering about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 And far from it being in "almost ruins" it is actually the best preserved medieval Armenian church in Turkey (though that's because of its isolated position and not because the Turks have tried to preserve it). The best thing that could happen to this building is either for it to be left completely alone, or for outside experts (preferably from Britain, but absolutely no Turks or Armenians) to be brought in to advise on its preservation which would not involve any "restoration". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hytga Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 no Turks or Armenians why not armenians? for political reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 I would rather prefer Italians, French, Greeks or Chinese to fix it. Brits are criminals, Germans have no clue about our architecture, Russians will be drunk most of the time....how about Mongolians, they may do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 Not for political reasons, but for practical reasons. I don't think any Armenians from Armenia would have any understanding of how to properly conserve a historic buildiing. I don't even think they would understand the concept - they may be a generation or two in advance of their Turkish equivalents, but since the Turks are about 200 years behind current practices, that isn't much to boast about. And there will also be a risk of religious fanatics getting involved - the sort who have effectively destroyed many historic monuments in Armenia because they believe that it is irrelevant what is done to a church as long as the repairs enables then to stick a priest in it. I've heard that those sort of people are campaigning to get their hands on the Ani cathedral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 The country with the most advanced skills in the conservation of historic buildings is Britain. France and Spain are pretty good as well. Italians are good at over-restoring frescoes but not much else. Germans are too clinical and picky to do it properly - they over-restore to the point of sterility. Gamavor - I think the Mongolians might be good at stitching up tents, but not much else, and would probably spend most of their time shagging the local sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem. Sorry Steve, I could really not resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 Yes, Brits are very good at building conservation. High level British specialists decompose it stone by stone and then you see the building in British Musem. I really wonder why they call it the British Museum, since the British historical pieces present can be counted on the fingers of one hand. It's still a great museum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 BTW, the correct name of the Church should be Ah, Tamar! Does anyone know why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 (edited) Hovhannes Toumanian English translation by V. Rogov AKHTAMAR Beside the laughing lake of Van A little hamlet lies; Each night into the waves a man Leaps under darkened skies. He cleaves the waves with mightly arm, Needing no raft or boat, And swims, disdaining risk and harm, Towards the isle remote. On the dark island burns so bright A piercing, luring ray: There's lit a beacon every night To guide him on his way. Upon the island is that fire Lit by Tamar the fair; Who waits, all burning with desire, Beneath the shelter there. The lover's heart-how doth it beat! How beat the roaring waves! But, bold and scorning to retreat, The elements he braves. And now Tamar the fair doth hear, With trembling heart aflame, The water splashing-oh, so near, And fire consumes her frame. All quiet is on the shore around, And, black,there looms a shade: The darkness utters not a sound, The swimmer finds the maid. The tide-waves ripple, lisp and splash And murmur, soft and low; They urqe each other, mingle, clash, As, ebbing out, they go. Flutter and rustle the dark waves. And with them every star Whispers how sinfully behaves The shameless maid Tamar; Their whisper shakes her throbbing her This time,as was before! The youth into the waves doth dart, The maiden prays on shore. But certain villians, full of spite, Against them did conspire, And on a hellish, mirky night Put out the guiding fire. The luckless lover lost his way, And only from afar The wind is carrying in his sway The moans of:"Ah, Tamar!" And through the night his voice is heard Upon the craggy shores, And, though it's muffled and blurred By the waves' rapid roars, The words fly forward-faint they are- "Ah, Tamar!" And in the morn the splashing tide The hapless yough cast out, Who,battling with the waters, died In an unequal bout; Cold lips are clenched, two words they bar: "Ah, Tamar!" And ever since, both near and far, They call the island Akhtamar Edited May 22, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Very nice Maral, even if this has been aired numerous times before. Gamavor, you know very well that it is only a romantization, a very good one at that. Toumanian's poem, as romantic and imaginative it may be is only a fable, a word game at best, it is retrofitted. Nothing wrong with that, in so doing Hovannes has made that world class monument accessible to more people thna it would ever be, most people know of and about Aghtamar if only through that poem by Toumanian. Most reference to Aghtamar on this forum is mainly in passing and secondary, often buried under other subjects and at time lost in too much noise. I think yhe sacred landmark deserves a page to its own. I will start a thread solely dedicated to Aghtamar where we can add, and hopefully keep it free of controversy and personal attacks. Please go to Culture and look for AGHTAMAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kakachik77 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I really wonder why they call it the British Museum, since the British historical pieces present can be counted on the fingers of one hand. It's still a great museum though. style_images/master/snapback.png My grandpa calls it "The Museum of Stolen Goods", at least one person found the right name for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 The BEST TURK IS THE DEAD TURK! Armenian architect to lead church restoration Sunday, June 26, 2005 DIPLOMACY ANKARA - Turkish Daily News A Turkish private company that will restore a historic Armenian church has decided to hire a Turkish architect of Armenian origin as part of the restoration team consisting of archaeologists, art historians and civil engineers. The owner of the company, Cahit Zeydanli, met late last week with Turkish Armenian Patriarch Mesrob Mutafian to consult with him on hiring an Armenian architect for the project. After the meeting, Zeydanli said the company planned to hire Zakarya Mildanoglu in line with the recommendation of the Armenian patriarch. The restoration may take a year or two and our goal is to restore a nice church in accordance to its original form. He predicted the restoration work would be completed by the end of 2006. The church is on Akdamar Island, situated in Lake Van, and has historical significance for both Turks and Armenians. Zeydanli said the renovation project has the full support of top level Turkish officials, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Culture and Tourism Minister Atilla Koз ----------- Copyright 2005, Turkish Daily News. This article is redistributed with permission for personal use of Groong readers. No part of this article may be reproduced, further distributed or archived without the prior permission of the publisher. Contact Turkish Daily News Online at http://www.TurkishDailyNews.com for details. ----------- PS: May I ask what happened with 1250 Armenian Churches barbaricaly destroyed in front of the eyes of "Christian" Europeans in so-called Turkey? Weren't they historicaly significant for both Turks and Armenians? F**** bastards! No peace until the last representative of your cursed race goes 6 feets under!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted June 30, 2005 Report Share Posted June 30, 2005 Zeydanli said the renovation project has the full support of top level Turkish officials, including Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Culture and Tourism Minister Atilla Koз Yes, Supported to be restored, just to then be passed off as some imagined site made by God-knows who of some-muslim-province somewhere. (Arak Elots Kili Esi (Kervansaray) The church of Arak Elots Karavanaray was bulit in 1031 as Patriache Seljuks later added into Caravanseray) Now they want to "restore" THE only church whose frescos got missed and didn't get white-washed by the honorable invaders, so when it topples like Ani the Kurd can keep his donkeys in there and use the khachkars to make himself a red brick house. 1250 is a BIG digit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djrak Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 the renovation they did to Ani, wasnt encouraging they distorted a lot, took out every sign of christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 Precisely. cultural rape & murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Speaking of cultural rape, read the passage below. This was the fate of most of the Armenian churches in temporary so-called Turkey. "The AKP Diyarbakir MP paid his first visit to Sati village Sunday. This village is where Armenians resided during the first years of Turkish Republic and has been a place much frequented by European delegations during recent years. Representatives coming from the EU mostly want to see the village's church, now used as a mosque." http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg118809.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanetsi Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Mosque? This is not only a crime against the Armenian Church and Armenia, but a crime against God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 TURKS RESTORE ARMENIAN CHURCHES IN THEIR OWN WAY ISTANBUL, JULY 21, NOYAN TAPAN - ARMENIANS TODAY. Official circles and media of Turkey announce continuously about starting restoration of historic and cultural monuments of the country receintly. Within the framework of that PR company, authorities of Turkey organized a number of events, including a visit to Aghtamar Island of representatives of Embassies of a number of countries accredited in Istanbul. The goal of the visit was to show European diplomates how Turks restore the Surb Khach Church of the island. According to Panorama.am, some time has passed since the "works" started here, and all that can be seen at the church, saying calmly, arises indignation: tombstones of Armenian clergymen are replaced, a part of them is broken. All left from the gravestones is massed. The floor of the church is covered with 20 centimetres of concrete layer preparing foundation for revetment. According to eye-witnesses, historic monuments closely neighboring the church were also damaged during creating a constuction site. According to the present information, authorities of Turkey envisage to spend about 1.5ml US dollars for the restoration of the Surb Khach Church. The client of the works is the Ministry of Culture and Tourism of Turkey. And works are carried out with the usage of such "modern" construction materials as black oil is. http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg119148.html PS: An old joke comes to mind: The Turksih government asked Radio Erevan why Armenia has a ministry of the navy and the sea resources when Armenia doesn't have access to a sea? The Radio responed: - Then why you have ministry of culture??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zartonk Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 That's not news, Vanetsi. Just look at St.Sophia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted September 7 Report Share Posted September 7 Sept 6 2024 ‘I was born in Yerevan, I’ll die in Van’ Gayane Gevorgyan, an Armenian living in Van, calls for participation in the 12th annual mass at Akhtamar Church: "Every Armenian, no matter where they live in the world, should come to see this place and light a candle at Akhtamar." Gayane Gevorgyan was the first Armenian to settle in Van, exactly a century after the 1915 Genocide. She has been living in the Edremit district since 2015. Born in the village of Sisavank in Armenia, Gevorgyan first came to Van in 2008 to attend a wedding. She had only known Van from the stories her parents told her and was captivated by the beauty of the city, saying that her parents died longing for their homeland. With the support of her husband, who is from Samsun, northeastern Turkey, Gevorgyan made the decision to settle in Van. Since then, she has seen it as her responsibility to protect the historical structures and graves left behind by her ancestors. One of her greatest dreams is for the forgotten and neglected churches of Van to be restored and reopened. Gevorgyan has been a vocal advocate for the annual service held at the Akhtamar Church on the Akhtamar Island since 2010, calling for people to attend the 12th service this year. 'Go to the village, kiss the ground' Gevorgyan, who was born and raised in Armenia, moved to İstanbul in 2000 for work, where she worked in various jobs. It was during this time that she met her husband and got married. In 2008, she visited Van’s Gevaş district for a wedding. Gevorgyan recalled how she called her uncle from Van, and his reaction left a deep impact on her: "I was so excited to be in Van, in Western Armenia, for the first time. When I told my uncle where I was, he started crying. He said, 'Gayane, my dear, I’m 70 years old. I’m here today, but gone tomorrow. Please, I beg you, go to Işkirt (Dereağzı) village in Gevaş and kiss the ground there.' That was my grandmother's village. When I found that out, I became even more emotional. That’s where our roots were. I called my parents during that time, and they told me stories, crying." "I imagined Armenian children playing happily" One year after this conversation, in 2009, Gevorgyan’s mother passed away. Devastated by her mother's passing without ever seeing "Western Armenia," Gevorgyan began visiting Van more frequently. She visited Işkirt village, where her grandmother and grandfather were born but never grew up, and spent time reflecting on her roots. "When I stepped foot in the village, I felt a mixture of sadness, heaviness, pain, and joy all at once. I felt many emotions there. Of course, I couldn’t find the exact location of the house, but I knew it was there; I could feel it. But I didn’t want to push it too much, as I didn’t want the people there to think I was coming back to claim an Armenian house. I sat down somewhere and imagined the happy Armenian children running around the area, as my mother, uncle, and grandfather had described." Ararat, Van, Muş, and more... After deciding to settle in Van, Gevorgyan and her husband moved to Edremit in 2015. She became the first Armenian to resettle in Van, 100 years after the genocide in 1915. "After my family passed away, I thought, at least let me have a home here, a door to knock on. I fulfilled my parents' wishes and desires. I’m happy. I’m in Van, on my land. I love Van very much. I remember how my parents used to listen to the Kurdish broadcast from Yerevan Radio every night with longing. And the stories they told afterward, about Ararat, Van, Muş, and many more." She added, "I was born in Yerevan, but I will die in Van, my ancestors’ homeland." Gevorgyan also mentioned how many people in Van, whom she has met, carry a sense of moral responsibility for the genocide. She recounted how a young university student who painted her house refused payment after six days of work, saying, "Years ago, before I was born, a horrific massacre took place here. At least now, we have the chance to make things right. Let this be my gift to welcome you back to your land." Gevorgyan said she was deeply moved by this gesture, and after he left, she cried. She expressed that the people of Van have been very kind to her, with neighbors showing her respect and love, which she found invaluable. Praying in Armenian In addition to her other activities, Gevorgyan is actively working to restore the dilapidated Armenian churches in Van. On the way to Edremit Church for the interview, it became clear that this church was restored largely thanks to her determination and efforts. The church overlooks Lake Van and the entire city, and Gevorgyan expressed how painful it was for her to see it in ruins when she first moved to Van. "I used to think, why would it hurt anyone for us to light candles and pray in a place that looks out onto paradise? I worked very hard for this place. Now, there are only a few things left to fix, and then we will have our opening ceremony. This will be the first church to become active again. You can’t imagine how happy this makes me because it means that thousands of Armenians will be able to come here, see Van, and pray in their own language on the land of their ancestors." ‘Lives were turned upside down’ As they stood overlooking Lake Van, Akhtamar Island, and the rest of Van, Gevorgyan reflected on the region's Armenian past. "Before 1915, Armenians lived here. They built houses all around the lake and had various professions. They were rooted here. That hill over there, Seyir Hill, was the hill where Armenian lovers would meet. Sometimes, I watch young people going there now, and I think of the Armenian youths who once fell in love there and dreamt about the future. But then 1915 came, and everything changed. Dreams vanished, and even our roots were uprooted. Thousands of Armenian babies, young people, and the elderly drowned in Lake Van while fleeing. You can imagine what else happened." ‘Was it too much to ask for a handful of soil?’ Gevorgyan remarked that Lake Sevan in Armenia bears a striking resemblance to Lake Van. According to legend, from the peak of Mount Ararat, Lake Sevan and Lake Van appear to be the same distance away. "One is salty, the other is fresh. But both are blessings. On a clear day, you can see Ararat from anywhere in Yerevan. Whenever we saw Ararat, the conversation would inevitably turn to Van, its nature, and its lake. Just like how Muslims yearn for paradise and God's mercy, we long for Van in the same way," she said, explaining the significance of Van for Armenians. After moving to Van, Gevorgyan took soil from Akhtamar Island to her parents' graves in Armenia. She said that once people learned she lived in Van, they started asking her for soil from the region. "When we visit somewhere, we often bring back souvenirs. I started bringing back soil from Van, the land of my ancestors. "Every time I placed soil from Van on an Armenian grave, I could hear my mother's lament: 'Ax lawo lawo, was it too much to ask for a piece of soil from my homeland?'" she recalled, and after saying this, she lit a candle for her mother while softly singing an Armenian song. ‘Every Armenian should come to Akhtamar’ Gevorgyan also called on Armenians to attend the annual service held at Akhtamar Church on Akhtamar Island. She believes that every Armenian should visit their ancestral land and pray there at least once. While calling for attendance at the upcoming service, which will take place on September 8, Gevorgyan expressed her frustration that the church only holds services once a year. "It breaks my heart that the candles in this church are only lit once a year, but I fought hard for this. "We all need to come here to show that Armenians care about their places of worship. Every Armenian, no matter where they are in the world, should visit this place, light a candle at Akhtamar, and pray. We owe this to our ancestors who suffered so much and longed for their homeland." https://bianet.org/haber/i-was-born-in-yerevan-ill-die-in-van-299389 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted September 9 Report Share Posted September 9 Hurriyet, Turkey Sept 8 2024 Church in Van’s Akdamar Island hosts 12th mass The Akdamar Church, an 1,100-year-old Armenian church situated on Akdamar Island in Lake Van, hosted its 12th special mass on Sept. 8. Scores of people from across the country and around the world flocked to the island in the eastern province of Van to attend this significant annual event, held on the second Sunday of September. Those who wished to attend the mass were transferred by boat after going through the search stations set up at Akdamar Pier, while security precautions were also in place for the occasion on the island. The ceremony, presided over by the 85th Turkish Armenian Patriarch Sahak Maşalyan, commenced at 11 a.m., with Senior Father Drtad Uzunyan officiating the mass. Tamara Telli, who traveled from Istanbul, shared that she had been dreaming of this day for as long as she could remember and expressed her gratitude to all the contributors who offered her this chance. Another participant from Istanbul, Zarrok Keçeci, also remarked that they were deeply moved to attend the ceremony and praised the state officials for creating such a welcoming atmosphere. The Turkish Culture and Tourism Ministry undertook renovation and restoration work to return the medieval church to its former glory in 2005 and declared it a monument museum in 2007. Subsequently, the church was opened to worship with only one day of mass permitted in 2010, after a hiatus of 95 years. The ancient church, which is over 1,000 years old, serves as a significant piece of medieval Armenian religious history. It was constructed between 915 and 921 A.D. by architect Bishop Manuel under the direction of King Gagik I Artsruni. Known for its unique place in East-West Christian art, the church boasts remarkable adornments and comprehensive wall reliefs from its time and holds great significance for the Armenian people. The church's interior part features animal characters in relation to religious and secular incidents, as well as featuring frescoes that have mostly deteriorated with time. https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/church-in-vans-akdamar-island-hosts-12th-mass-200345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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