Stormig Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Why is salty, աղի (aghi), and the opposite, lacking salt, անալի (anali)? Shouldn't it have been անաղի (anaghi)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 It may have to do with gh-l change in Armenian. For example, metal is metagh in Armenian. This works with loaned words, I would be curious to know if 'agh' is a loaned word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted May 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I am aware of the interchangeability, as in stella and astgh, Luke and Ghukas. But I think it may not be as simple as that. Then again you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 I wonder how did L turn into GH? Any idea when this might have happened? In many words though the original L was preserved. Gtal/ktal as opposed to patarakaGH (patarakal?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 (edited) I wonder how did L turn into GH? Any idea when this might have happened? In many words though the original L was preserved. Gtal/ktal as opposed to patarakaGH (patarakal?) You will find the following item here; http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=15...t=0entry15107 L to GH. the reason the Latin L and others is transliterated to sound like GH as in khaghogh, Lazarus-Ghazaros is, during the pre Mashtots era there really was not a sound for L as we know it now. The Armenian L sounded more like the GH, the French R since it was pronounced with the back of the tongue against the palate. By Mesrop's time we had been hellenized enough to need a symbol to be able to pronounce words like "hellenakan", even if we kept transliterating Helen as Heghin(eh). And now we have two symbols, one for the new L and one for the old L, gh, if you will. The reaon why the two cannot totally be divorced so much so that HMB has found it necsssary to use the Latin L with a slash through it. Edited May 19, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 What about the word for spring, աղբյուր? Does it have anything to do with salt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Actually, I think that might have been one of the most redundant questions I've asked. I'm probably going to start trying to dismember aghavni and aghves. Still, though, is it possible to break that word down? Pyur would seem akin to pleur (Fr.); that way I'm thinking of flowing water. Could the first syllable have evolved from ak/akn/ach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 16, 2005 Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 Storms, do you know what alani (ալանի) means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 It may have to do with gh-l change in Armenian. For example, metal is metagh in Armenian. This works with loaned words, I would be curious to know if 'agh' is a loaned word. style_images/master/snapback.png Domino, The shift - "glissement linguistique" - from 'l' to 'r' is "natural" and common in many languages - at least Indo-European: it does not necessarily mean that the word is not native! Phonetically, they form a group known as the "liquids." (According to another classification, they belong to the a phonetic group called "alveolar.") 1- Every French highschooler - and maybe in Quebec??? - learns of the "interchangeability" of 'l' and 'r' - called "alliterations des 'r'" as a "literary technique." The following is a good example: "Son beau corps a roule sous la vague marine" (Andre Chenier) The idea is that when you pronounce the 'r's - in the above as 'l' i.e. softer 'r' - than you have the sensation of "flowing water." 2- In many South American countries the 'r' often "degenerates" into an 'l' i.e. "amal" instead of "amar." (That is the case only in the popular classes!) (Side note: note the parallel between the three classes of verbs in Armenian - "ar," "ir" and "er" - and Spanish.) 3- Many Chinese and Koreans prounce the 'r' as 'l' 4- ... It is needless to say that the French/German 'r' is similar to the Armenian 'gh." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) I think you meant to say Sasun. (your answer is interesting though, and I think you should not edit it ) Don`t worry, I am the champion to answer to the wrong user. I guess this is an example of why more than two individuals should not have the same avatar. You probably associated Sasun with me because I have myself used the black box. Edited January 17, 2005 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) I think you meant to say Sasun. (your answer is interesting though, and I think you should not edit it ) Don`t worry, I am the champion to answer to the wrong user. I guess this is an example of why more than two individuals should not have the same avatar. You probably associated Sasun with me because I have myself used the black box. style_images/master/snapback.png I usually "quote" all the messages and reply to them using a Text Editor. This time around, there were two replies to Sasun and one to you! So I got confused! (See the "folding" thread!) Sorry for the confusion! PS. I may edit it - to provide translations! Sorry! Edited January 17, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I guess this is an example of why more than two individuals should not have the same avatar. style_images/master/snapback.png I'm surprised that you didn't say more than one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Storms, do you know what alani (ալանի) means? style_images/master/snapback.png Nope. What does it mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Nope. What does it mean? style_images/master/snapback.png ալանի - dried peach or fig, stuffed with walnut, sugar and spices (very yummmy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) What about the word for spring, աղբյուր? Does it have anything to do with salt? style_images/master/snapback.png Very Good! Good question. Very observant of you. The answer is ... no. We have spoken about this sunbject under many topics but never putting the two together. Even if it may be tempting and logical to link the two, even though both may have their roots in the IE group of languages they have separate roots and origin. Agh as in salt derives from the PIE "sal" where the S is dropped and the L is Armenianized as GH. Even if the latter is not alwys so. First some of the Latin words based on "sal"; salad(a), saline, salary** etc. such as the English "salt". ** Salary to mean reward for work done is based on the fact that at one time salt was so precious that soldiers and others were rewarded with quantities of salt. In the Armenian, many words with "agh", such as "aghek" etc. Let us rule out the likes "aghekharsh" as it is based on "aghiq/intetines", as well as "aghakhin", servant. One word is of interest, "aghvor" which has come to mean "beautiful/pleasant" was in fact meant "tasty/tasteful" , i.e. salted as opposed to tasteless/saltless/ "anli/anali". Many other languages use "agh/salt" to mean tasty/sweet, of them all the Arabic "mlih/mleh" comes to mind which is also baed on "mlh/salt". We have used this word as personal name-Mleh, the son of Levon I Rubinian. The Armenian words that use the original Latin L to"al" mean white are evident in such as alevor, aleher and aliq. The latter as in "wave" is derived from the fact that when waves hit the rocky shores of Lake Van they broke up into white froth, hence the plural of "al"-"aliq".. Aghbyur (source/fountain) whose earliest form was "aghber", on the other hand derives from the PIE "bhrev" to mean waterwell/reservoir. It is still evident in Greek and other languages. The original Armemian form was "bgher" which aquired the prefix A to become "abgher" which in time, by rejuxtaposition of the b and gh ended as "aghber/aghbyur". The word has also been used in its variant of to "flow/rise" that some languages use it to mean "khmor/dough" and even to rise as in beer, the German "brauen".... to brew. PS. The only of "alani" I see is its use as "hraparakav/public". Very limited use or none. It is probably from the Arabic "'alan-i", to declare. The Persians use it too as "a'lan" Edited January 17, 2005 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 ալանի - dried peach or fig, stuffed with walnut, sugar and spices (very yummmy). style_images/master/snapback.png HUH? isn't anali and alani the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Aghbyur (source/fountain) whose earliest form was "aghber", on the other hand derives from the PIE "bhrev" to mean waterwell/reservoir. It is still evident in Greek and other languages. The original Armemian form was "bgher" which aquired the prefix A to become "abgher" which in time, by rejuxtaposition of the b and gh ended as "aghber/aghbyur". The word has also been used in its variant of to "flow/rise" that some languages use it to mean "khmor/dough" and even to rise as in beer, the German "brauen".... to brew. PS. The only of "alani" I see is its use as "hraparakav/public". Very limited use or none. It is probably from the Arabic "'alan-i", to declare. The Persians use it too as "a'lan" style_images/master/snapback.png Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 HUH? isn't anali and alani the same thing? style_images/master/snapback.png No Azat jan. Some people tend to pronounce ալանի instead of անալի (especially here in America) but ալանի is something else (as I already mentioned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sulamita, is alani an Armenian word? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Sulamita, is alani an Armenian word? style_images/master/snapback.png I don't know the origin but it's in the Armenian dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 I don't know the origin but it's in the Armenian dictionary. style_images/master/snapback.png Thank you. Then it means that it's formally used in Armenian, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Thank you. Then it means that it's formally used in Armenian, right? style_images/master/snapback.png Yeap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Oh dear, I just saw this. :sheepish: http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10...ndpost&p=120876 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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